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Kraken Vs ZLIB: 29% Smaller Game Sizes Losslessly, 297% Faster Decompression on PS5

M

MonarchJT

Banned
User has been removed from thread. This thread shouldn't be a pissing match.
PropellerEar said:
GuiltyGear being half the size on PS5(compared to PS4), how do you compare this on Xbox?
You're clearly in a wrong thread.

Have you been smoking PCBpack PR too much?
Click to expand...
na pretty much im not caring about those things too much at this point some are just looking for a foothold for brag some useless superiority. on PS5 is useful because it still doesn't even have the secondary slot working and the smaller SSD. wake me up when the kraken will bring higher resolution and more fps
 
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3liteDragon

3liteDragon

Member
MonarchJT said:
no it would not be decompressed by the CPU as the support for oodles texture is been added later in the PS5 ...those Decompressor in the consoles can be updated as they want
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about Oodle Textures since Sony bought licenses for that tech to be used for PS4 & PS5 development, meaning the PS4 or Xbox One can support Oodle Texture. What I'm talking about is Oodle Kraken (the compression tech used for everything else BUT textures), without a hardware decoder built for Kraken, that incoming data stream would need to be decompressed by the CPU in the console (which would require about 9 Zen 2 cores to decompress), which would be the case for Series X|S if they were to use Oodle Kraken compression tech. They can still use Oodle Textures though for both the Xbox One and Series X|S consoles, but they're sticking with BCPack which I'm pretty sure is just as performant as Oodle Texture compression.
 
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Bernd Lauert

Bernd Lauert

Banned
Almost forgot, Bo requested this.

foto_no_exifyqkwk.jpg
 
Heisenberg007

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
MonarchJT said:
na pretty much im not caring about those things too much at this point some are just looking for a foothold for brag some useless superiority. on PS5 is useful because it still doesn't even have the secondary slot working and the smaller SSD. wake me up when the kraken will bring higher resolution and more fps
Click to expand...
Isn't that smaller 825GB SSD now actually storing more games than a 1TB SSD, using the aforementioned tech, while also being more than 200% faster?
 
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M

MonarchJT

Banned
3liteDragon said:
I'm not talking about Oodle Textures since Sony bought licenses for that tech to be used for PS4 & PS5 development, meaning the PS4 or Xbox One can support Oodle Texture. What I'm talking about is Oodle Kraken (the compression tech used for everything else BUT textures), without a hardware decoder built for Kraken, that incoming data stream would need to be decompressed by the CPU in the console (which would require about 9 Zen 2 cores to decompress), which would be the case for Series X|S if they were to use Oodle Kraken compression tech. They can still use Oodle Textures though for both the Xbox One and Series X|S consoles, but they're sticking with BCPack which I'm pretty sure is just as performant as Oodle Texture compression.
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as right now in all honestly I don't see the reason to change it when real advantages come will show a part the evident size of the games offset by the larger space of the ssd and the possibility of inserting a second custom ssd we will talk again
 
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T

Thief1987

Member
3liteDragon said:
What I'm talking about is Oodle Kraken (the compression tech used for everything else BUT textures),
Click to expand...
Textures also compressed by Kraken. Oodle Texture is a combination of lossy texture encoding, which prepares data for effecient compression, and Kraken compression afterwards.

What interesting about GG that this kind of game doesn't need many assets duplucate if any at all. So it should be that this difference in size achieved mostly by compression.
 
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T

truth411

Member
3liteDragon said:
I'm not talking about Oodle Textures since Sony bought licenses for that tech to be used for PS4 & PS5 development, meaning the PS4 or Xbox One can support Oodle Texture. What I'm talking about is Oodle Kraken (the compression tech used for everything else BUT textures), without a hardware decoder built for Kraken, that incoming data stream would need to be decompressed by the CPU in the console (which would require about 9 Zen 2 cores to decompress), which would be the case for Series X|S if they were to use Oodle Kraken compression tech. They can still use Oodle Textures though for both the Xbox One and Series X|S consoles, but they're sticking with BCPack which I'm pretty sure is just as performant as Oodle Texture compression.
Click to expand...
I don't think this is correct. The "9 Zen 2 cores to decompress" is the equivalent to the Performance of the PS5 hardware decompression block handling as cerny puts it "Over 5GB of Kraken Format". It doesnt take 9 Cpu cores for kraken to work. Both Oodle kraken and oodle texture kraken works on PS4 jaguar cores.

Both Oodle Kraken and Oodle Texture Kraken would work on Xbox including its hardware decompression block. It just wouldn't be as fast as the PS5.
The main reason imo devs on Xbox dont use Kraken is because MS havent bought the license to Kraken, so it would cost them to use it.
Oodle kraken is superior to Zlib in every possible way.
 
J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
T

truth411

Member
Thief1987 said:
Xbox has ASIC for zlib, are you sure that Kraken on CPU still will be faster?
Click to expand...
Hardware decompression will always be faster than CPUs decompression to keep up with theses SSD speeds unless you have Many, Many cores to spare.

But with Unreal Engine V buying Rad Game tools, thus Oodle Kraken is a part of U.E.V.
I have to think that devs can and will use Xbox hardware decompression, its not like its unusable.

In any case as a compression format Oodle Kraken > Zlib, its quickly becoming the industry standard, the only barrier was licensing fees. Which is not really the case anymore since Sony Bought it for any devs on their platform. Plus its now a part of U.E.5 which will probably be the main Multiplat Engine. Heck several Xbox game will use U.E.5, the next Gears and Hellblade 2, so why not use it.
 
M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Bo_Hazem said:
Yes, that's the XBO version, you need to buy the native version for $10 AFAIK, like here:



M1chl M1chl reported the same. The native current gen version is labeled as an add-on.
Click to expand...
But gotta be honest every single byte (even with such a unfortunate situation) is worth it. Who does not play Wreckfest on PS Plus/Game Pass steal from themselves.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
M1chl said:
But gotta be honest every single byte (even with such a unfortunate situation) is worth it. Who does not play Wreckfest on PS Plus/Game Pass steal from themselves.
Click to expand...

It's so far my best car game gameplay. Would love an open world version of this in the future for free roaming and lots of fun!
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Bernd Lauert said:
The fuck? I've been playing the XBO version this entire time? Game looks sharp and fluid... What does the upgrade do lmao
Click to expand...

Not sure myself but there is a trailer about it came few days ago. Here is an explanation about it:





You can see here it's 45.2GB for him as well. I've been playing the PS5 version since it came on PS Plus so didn't try the PS4 version myself.
 
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Bernd Lauert

Bernd Lauert

Banned
Bo_Hazem said:
Not sure myself but there is a trailer about it came few days ago. Here is an explanation about it:





You can see here it's 45.2GB for him as well. I've been playing the PS5 version since it came on PS Plus so didn't try the PS4 version myself.
Click to expand...

I see better light effects and particles instantly. I'ma throw them the 10 bucks, they deserve it, game's great.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Bernd Lauert said:
I see better light effects and particles instantly. I'ma throw them the 10 bucks, they deserve it, game's great.
Click to expand...

Also they seem like they fucked the S real hard by making X version the same on S according to him. Give it sometime and they'll update it and make it playable with 24GB file instead of the 21GB of XBO. The game is wonderful indeed and really hope for a sequel on current gen only.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Kagoshima_Luke said:
The variance with PS4 based on region tells me that it has to do with supported languages. I wonder if part of the reason PS5 is so low is because you can select just the base language and any others are add-ons.
Click to expand...

You gonna tell me that AC Valhalla has Arabic in the US version? Nope, not related. It has to do with compression first and some other smaller elements or individual optimization (glitches differ from system to another).
 
A

Allandor

Member
sircaw said:
6.85 what kind of wizardry is that. ( Are you sure there is not a 1 missing at the front of that )

Black Magic I tell you.
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Patch-sizes have nothing to do with compression (or almost not). This is pure packaging. E.g. if you have many small packets, you just replace those small packages. If you have just a few big packages, you must replace the big packages.
We no longer (since ages) in a time where a patch is a little program that replaces parts of other files or something like that. Even if a small "ini"-file is updated and this is inside of a 8GB package, the 8GB package get's replaced nowadays (if the program didn't have a logic that first looks in other "patch"-files for replacements or something like that). But as internet-speeds get higher and higher (and storaged doesn't cost much) this makes no sense. But having smaller packages like the PS5 uses for it's game (better streaming) the patches get smaller because they only consist of the small packages that were altered. For xbox consoles, still the "old" build-pipelines are used because ... why not they are working and you can deliver the game to 4 platforms at once ;). E.g. you can download the game on an HDD/SSD (whatever) and also play it on the xbox one. Those are just the same packages. And this will go away over time. PS5 has the advantage here that it has it's own build pipeline because if it wouldn't have it the game would be limited to PS4 Pro feature set so they had to adapt to the new SDK for the PS5 version.

In the end it is only relevant how big the game is after the patch. And this game is not even compareable, because xbox still uses the "old" pipeline. We still have to wait for current-gen only games in the future to really see the difference.
The only example so far on xbox side that comes to my mind is Gears 5 that got a new build-pipeline epically (MS seems to use that game over and over again to test their tech).
 
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DenchDeckard

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Im completely confused and mind blown at the valhalla stuff. so the patch is 6GB on ps5 and 23GB on xbox?

What is the whole size of the game now?

Surely it can't be 6GB on ps5? thats wizardry.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
DenchDeckard said:
Im completely confused and mind blown at the valhalla stuff. so the patch is 6GB on ps5 and 23GB on xbox?

What is the whole size of the game now?

Surely it can't be 6GB on ps5? thats wizardry.
Click to expand...

Not sure about how updates work on Xbox, but on PS5 you can get large updates and the base size stays the same or get slightly smaller/bigger.
 
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