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Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn refuses to say he would defend NATO ally being attacked.

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H

Hazzuh

Member
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-refuses-say-hed-8660663

Jeremy Corbyn tonight questioned Britain's entire defence policy as he refused to say he would defend a NATO ally which comes under attack.

At a hustings event in Birmingham, the famously-pacifist Labour leader was asked four times if he would use British troops to defend a fellow European country if it was invaded by Russia.

“I would want to avoid us getting involved military, by building up democratic relationships,” Mr Corbyn replied.

“I don't wish to go to war - what I want to do is achieve a world where we don't need to go to war.”
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This isn't new territory for Corbyn who is from the wing of the Labour party which has called for the dissolution of NATO since the 1980s. He has called for NATOs dissolution as recently as 2014 (also saying that NATO shouldn't have intervened in the Balkans in the 90s), and blamed the annexation of the Crimea by Russia on the eastern expansion of NATO . His director of communications, Seamas Milne is also hostile to NATO. While this isn't new territory for Corbyn it does represent a massive break with Labour history, Clement Attlee's Labour government helped to found NATO in the 1940s.

Regardless, I thought some US gaffers might enjoy the parallels with Trump.
 
C

Cerium

Member
kirblar said:
Isolationism/protectionism were popping up on both the left and right this election cycle in both the US and UK.
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I don't think Bernie ever came close to suggesting he wouldn't uphold NATO. He'd have been rightly flayed for it if he had.
 
K

Kusagari

Member
kirblar said:
Isolationism/protectionism were popping up on both the left and right this election cycle in both the US and UK.
Click to expand...

Bernie actually realizes we need to engage in war sometimes, even if he is generally a dove.

Liberals like Stein and Corbyn would let the world burn rather than try to combat it.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Cerium said:
I don't think Bernie ever came close to suggesting he wouldn't uphold NATO. He'd have been rightly flayed for it if he had.
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He's also hostile to international trade agreements, also believes that primarying your sitting officials is a good thing, and also isn't really interested in compromise. The populist/protectionist vein on both sides ran deep this cycle in both countries and has been fueling insurgencies amid the rise of the polarized electorate. Sanders wouldn't have been as bad as Corbyn/Trump, but it still would not have turned out well for the party, because going to the far flank will lead to general election voters revolting on you. Labour's losing bad to the tories and has a high chance of splintering, the GOP's currently heading into the wilderness after scaring the shit out of people.
Kusagari said:
Bernie actually realizes we need to engage in war sometimes, even if he is generally a dove.

Liberals like Stein and Corbyn would let the world burn rather than try to combat it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he's got at least some realpolitik in him.

Putting Stein in there isn't fair, she's basically a professional troll.
 
C

Colin.

Member
Far left in the UK would be the likes of the TUSC, Socialist Party, Solidarity etc. All being considerably more left than Corbyn's actual policies.
 
K

kirblar

Member
SolicitorPirate said:
For fucks sake, what the hell is wrong with the British left?
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Far left being toxic isn't new. It's that when your party bleeds moderate votes your extreme flank can wrest control, and the results aren't pretty, no matter if you're on the left or right. GOP's current issues are exacerbated by the fact that they lost millennial voters to the dems and are on track to lose a second generation as well. Labour's lost moderates on top of the UK having a much more homogenous population.

When you have the extreme flank take over on the right, you get Trump. On the left, the sort of awful behavior and bad/outdated political/economic theory you see limited mainly to activist groups on college campuses and the internet suddenly finds itself brought to the forefront, and the results aren't pretty.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
cDNA said:
For some reason both left and right seems to like Putin.
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No leftists like Putin, that's the same as the far-right insistence that "leftists support ISIS".

Some shitty leftists aid Putin indirectly by buying into his propaganda outlets because of some edgy anti-Western contrarianism, but people like this are much less common in leftist circles that certain Gaf members would have you believe.
 
C

Cerium

Member
Dash_Riprock said:
UK-Sanders is hilarious.
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I was as bitter at Sanders as anyone but I don't think this comparison is fair.

When everything was on the line and his supporters were ready to tear the party apart at the convention, Bernie put his country above his ego and did everything he could to unite the Democrats behind Clinton. I can't imagine Corbyn ever being so graceful.

Corbyn is Left Trump.
 
T

travisbickle

Member
kirblar said:
Far left being toxic isn't new. It's that when your party bleeds moderate votes your extreme flank can wrest control, and the results aren't pretty, no matter if you're on the left or right. GOP's current issues are exacerbated by the fact that they lost millennial voters to the dems and are on track to lose a second generation as well. Labour's lost moderates on top of the UK having a much more homogenous population.

When you have the extreme flank take over on the right, you get Trump. On the left, the sort of awful behavior and bad/outdated political/economic theory you see limited mainly to activist groups on college campuses and the internet suddenly finds itself brought to the forefront, and the results aren't pretty.
Click to expand...


Corbyn is no way near far-left. He wants strong unions and believes the working-class die in wars. That's it, he's on the left.

Current society is bourgeois as fuck, where people believe war is inevitable and the working class are something to be controlled and patronised. We pretend to be sad for a few days when we see a dead/injured child then carry on. If it continues this way then you're going to see a proper far-left uprising.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
The radical left has had similar sentiments--isolationist foreign policy. One of the similarities in both ends of the political spectrum.
 
A

Azzanadra

Member
To play devils advocate here, "NATO ally being attacked" is pretty much code for "overthrow middle eastern ruler we don't like" these days, so I applaud Corbyn for sticking to his ideals and principles and working to redeem Labour of its warmongering past. Though I see the "red scare" school of fear mongering (oh my gerd Russia's going to take over the world!) is strong in this thread, so I am kind of appalled by the gung-ho Reaganesque stance many seem to hold over foreign policy. Guess most people don't realize the cost of war living in their nice, comfy western countries with no fear of actual consequences.
 
Q

Quixzlizx

Member
Azzanadra said:
To play devils advocate here, "NATO ally being attacked" is pretty much code for "overthrow middle eastern ruler we don't like" these days, so I applaud Corbyn for sticking to his ideals and principles and working to redeem Labour of its warmongering past. Though I see the "red scare" school of fear mongering (oh my gerd Russia's going to take over the world!) is strong in this thread, so I am kind of appalled by the gung-ho Reaganesque stance many seem to hold over foreign policy. Guess most people don't realize the cost of war living in their nice, comfy western countries with no fear of actual consequences.
Click to expand...

What the hell are you talking about?
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
aside from the fact that he obv never shoulda said that, i kinda would like to see fresh polling on how welcoming the british electorate would be to the idea of going to war over a small nato ally.

just to see if things changed a bit since the last time
 
D

Dash_Riprock

Member
Cerium said:
I was as bitter at Sanders as anyone but I don't think this comparison is fair.

When everything was on the line and his supporters were ready to tear the party apart at the convention, Bernie put his country above his ego and did everything he could to unite the Democrats behind Clinton. I can't imagine Corbyn ever being so graceful.

Corbyn is Left Trump.
Click to expand...

This is true.
 
A

aliengmr

Member
Azzanadra said:
To play devils advocate here, "NATO ally being attacked" is pretty much code for "overthrow middle eastern ruler we don't like" these days, so I applaud Corbyn for sticking to his ideals and principles and working to redeem Labour of its warmongering past. Though I see the "red scare" school of fear mongering (oh my gerd Russia's going to take over the world!) is strong in this thread, so I am kind of appalled by the gung-ho Reaganesque stance many seem to hold over foreign policy. Guess most people don't realize the cost of war living in their nice, comfy western countries with no fear of actual consequences.
Click to expand...

No, no it really isn't.
 
E

Empty

Member
FStop7 said:
How the fuck did this moonbat get elected?
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literally the same reason as trump.

labour membership has been moving rapidly to the left since last labour pm brown left office, just like republican base has moved rapidly to the right since gw bush. both further and further away from the actual electorate. corbyn and trump have the policies to take advantage of that sentiment, whereas their rivals just seemed watered down.

there's also a strong sense in both cases that the traditional party establishment has betrayed the cause, so they both ran on an anti-establishment message. corbyn talks about how the last labour government betrayed left wing politics by joining in western interventions and adopting market based policies in some areas; trump talks about how republicans have betrayed ppl on immigration, how boehner gave in to obama constantly, romney was watered down etc. corbyn and trump as outsiders could take advantage of this.

they also eschew traditional party political methods. trump with his unfiltered approach, refusing to follow decorum and 'shooting from the hip' with racist comments and not bothering to campaign in a traditional organized manner instead running through the media & twitter. corbyn through his 'kinder gentler politics' which presents him as opposing slick politicos by being a friendly old man who likes cycling to work & growing vegetables, and by basically refusing to talk to the traditional media or involve himself in traditional parliament debates, focusing on public rallies of supporters rather than a deliberately crafted pr message. trump and corbyn supporters find this refreshing, trump resonates with ppl who think political correctness is bad, corbyn resonates with ppl who think politics is too stage managed.

sadly in the usa you can actually do very well with this approach because of the separate house races and federal system. republicans due to having such an energized base who turnout in big numbers still control the house, senate (for now) and most state legislatures and governorships despite being irrelevant in the presidential . in the uk the general election is absolutely everything, localism is extremely limited, the pm is just the leader of the house. so the labour party won't have any influence in uk politics for 15 years at least. the conservatives will craft their vision of the country for a generation.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Azzanadra said:
To play devils advocate here, "NATO ally being attacked" is pretty much code for "overthrow middle eastern ruler we don't like" these days, so I applaud Corbyn for sticking to his ideals and principles and working to redeem Labour of its warmongering past. Though I see the "red scare" school of fear mongering (oh my gerd Russia's going to take over the world!) is strong in this thread, so I am kind of appalled by the gung-ho Reaganesque stance many seem to hold over foreign policy. Guess most people don't realize the cost of war living in their nice, comfy western countries with no fear of actual consequences.
Click to expand...

I mean, I think you maybe don't understand the cost of living in a nice comfy western country, which is the willingness to defend each other if a less nice country attacks someone.
 
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