Support NeoGAF

[Alchemy]

This is sort of a side note, but what's the main problem people have the the phrase "aggressively walking towards me?" If someone is barreling towards you, wouldn't you feel very, very uncomfortable?

In what magical world of make believe does 'barreling' equal 'walking'? Even if it is "aggressive", what the hell does that mean you're doing? Power walking at the police officer? That dudes hips are a deadly weapon, take him out!

 

[FStubbs]

What changes with the "I don't need to comply" attitude?

Police will be abusive, publicly, more often. Police and their enablers will not be able to sweep their widespread corruption under the rug. Minorities will not be forced to deal with an overly aggressive and militarized police force alone, and the only class of people with true political power (white, middle class and above) will be subjected to the same treatment as others. At which point they will see the injustice of the system and force change.

The ONLY way change will be enacted is if the average citizen refuses to subject themselves to the illegal and aggressive methods of corrupt police officers. Publicly and loudly. if soccer moms are being thrown on the hoods of cars and thrown in county for a week, people will care. But, I guess that's too much to ask from the only group of people in America who aren't being bent over by police on a daily basis.

Articles like this are a plea to preserve the system made directly toward the only people who can change it. "Don't do anything, we don't hurt you" the officer says as corruption runs rampant, bodies pile up in the streets, and money is stolen from people who had the temerity to drive through the wrong county.

It'll never happen. Cops know they'll be in deep trouble if they abuse soccer moms or "normal" white men.

 

[Rest]

This is sort of a side note, but what's the main problem people have the the phrase "aggressively walking towards me?" If someone is barreling towards you, wouldn't you feel very, very uncomfortable?

I'll chime in on this, since I keep seeing it: Don't walk towards a cop. Ever. If they ask you to come closer, do it slowly, if you feel you need to be closer to a cop, tell them you're going to step closer and why. A cop doesn't know who you are or what your mannerisms are, and they're going to constantly be assessing whether or not you're a threat. If they assume wrong, that's going to go badly for you, not them.

 

[Sàmban]

#notallcops


This piece is police culture in a nutshell. It so perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong with cops in America today. Fuck them all.

 

[Metaphoreus]

No. Acquiescing is providing identification when you are not required to. Acquiescing is allowing an officer to search your property upon request. Acquiescing is turning over your property during an illegal search and seizure attempt. Acquiescing is turning off your camera while filming legally.

Acquiescing is complying with the demands of an officer who has no authority to make them. If you are threatened illegally (violence, detainment, or arrest) when these demands are made you should allow the officer to follow through on that threat as opposed to complying.

But then I don't see where you disagree with the article in the OP. The author expressly states that "you don't have to submit to an illegal stop or search;" that "[y]ou can refuse consent to search your car or home if there's no warrant;" and that, "nless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go." In other words, he's saying you don't have to acquiesce in an illegal demand.

EDIT: I just saw your edit. I do agree that "Don't argue with me, . . . don't tell me that I can't stop you" appears to contradict his later statements about being able to resist an illegal demand. I'm not sure how to reconcile those except by narrowly interpreting the text bolded in the OP such that they exclude the resistance he later indicates is A-OK.

 

[Verano]

DON'T BE BLACK

NOR HISPANIC

 

[speculawyer]

What an asshole.

First of all, you do hurt a lot of people that don't challenge the police. That's a fact.

And second, even when challenged, you should act reasonably under the circumstances. You don't get to maim or kill people that challenge you. Many of those people may be mentally ill or whacked out on drugs.

 

[agrajag]

The bolded is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Pickles Spill]

In what magical world of make believe does 'barreling' equal 'walking'? Even if it is "aggressive", what the hell does that mean you're doing? Power walking at the police officer? That dudes hips are a deadly weapon, take him out!

The cop doesn't know whether you have a knife on you. The cop doesn't know if you're going to whack him in the face. The cop knows nothing. So if I were a cop, and someone is power walking up to me, yeah, I would feel uncomfortable.

I'll chime in on this, since I keep seeing it: Don't walk towards a cop. Ever. If they ask you to come closer, do it slowly, if you feel you need to be closer to a cop, tell them you're going to step closer and why. A cop doesn't know who you are or what your mannerisms are, and they're going to constantly be assessing whether or not you're a threat. If they assume wrong, that's going to go badly for you, not them.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

It'll never happen. Cops know they'll be in deep trouble if they abuse soccer moms or "normal" white men.

But they do! They do every day! White people, middle class white people, are forced to submit to illegal methods of policing every day in America. What they go through and the way officers treat them isn't nearly as bad as it is with minorities, but they are caught in search and seizure ploys. They are illegally detained. They are told to stop filming. In more polite ways, sure. But it still happens. So what will officers do when white people stop complying? Will they beat them? Throw them in jail?

We know what happens when us black folk get too far out of line, tear gas is thrown in the streets of residential neighborhoods. Will they do that in Coronado? Will they do it in Marina del Rey? When I say that white, middle-class and above citizens aren't bent over by police it's actually wrong. They are. Just not to the violent degree that black americans, latino americans, asian americans, etc are.

But then I don't see where you disagree with the article in the OP. The author expressly states that "you don't have to submit to an illegal stop or search;" that "[y]ou can refuse consent to search your car or home if there's no warrant;" and that, "nless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go." In other words, he's saying you don't have to acquiesce in an illegal demand.

Right. He also says:

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?

Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you. We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police! Just don’t challenge a cop during a stop.

Comply. Seek recourse later.

Oh by the way, you will never be given the time of day.

Edit: you totally saw my edit and edited your post so now I'm editing my post to acknowledge your edit acknowledging my edit. We're good.

 

[AstroNut325]

He should be fired for writing this type of article. In fact the entire police force in the US needs a reform to it's culture. Too much officers who are drunk on their own power.

I think one aspect that people also need to look at is the personal ownership of firearms. A police officer is always at fear of being attacked by anyone they want/need to pull over/question. Simply put... police officers sometimes feel like soldiers. They don't know if they will come home alive in the evening simply because they decided to pull over someone for a expired registration.

I'm not defending their approach in any way. I'm simply saying that there is more to the equation than the bully mentality.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I'll chime in on this, since I keep seeing it: Don't walk towards a cop. Ever. If they ask you to come closer, do it slowly, if you feel you need to be closer to a cop, tell them you're going to step closer and why. A cop doesn't know who you are or what your mannerisms are, and they're going to constantly be assessing whether or not you're a threat. If they assume wrong, that's going to go badly for you, not them.

What you're explaining here all makes sense, insomuch that it follows some kind of logic. What you're not acknowledging is that a cop only has to THINK you're a threat. That's the crux of this entire issue, and why everyone should have a problem with this op-ed.

It's absolutely ridiculous that this officer is placing the onus of ensuring that police do what they're supposed to onto everyday civilians.

The cop doesn't know whether you have a knife on you. The cop doesn't know if you're going to whack him in the face. The cop knows nothing. So if I were a cop, and someone is power walking up to me, yeah, I would feel uncomfortable.

Cops treat people as potential threats by default? Please tell me you see how fucked up this way of thinking is.

 

[Timedog]

Victim blaming in this thread is sickening.

 

[Siegcram]

It's just mind-blowing to me that people act like it's totally normal that you, as a civilian, have to take every precaution to not be blown to bits by cops including, but not limited to, walking towards them, breathing and having a measurable reaction time.

The attitude displayed in this article and all the other recent news is so ass-backwards and immoral, I almost can't believe it comes from a first-world nation.

 

[watershed]

I can sympathize with a lot of what cops go thru but this cop is basically saying "do as I say, regardless, or suffer the consequences" which is pure bs. Also the daily experiences of being a cop does not justify or even explain institutionalized racism, the blue wall, or indiscriminately unjust police tactics.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

It's just mind-blowing to me that people act like it's totally normal that you, as a civilian, have to take every precaution to not be blown to bits by cops including, but not limited to, walking towards them, breathing and having a measurable reaction time.

The attitude displayed in this article and all the other recent news is so ass-backwards and immoral, I almost can't believe it comes from a first-world nation.

But it's a hard job, man. And it isn't fair to push all this responsibility on cops when they are designated to be law enforcement from birth and never have the option to not be an officer.

 

[Evil_Silver]

Stroke my ego or you will die!

 

[Rest]

What you're explaining here all makes sense, insomuch that it follows some kind of logic. What you're not acknowledging is that a cop only has to THINK you're a threat. That's the crux of this entire issue, and why everyone should have a problem with this op-ed.

It's absolutely ridiculous that this officer is placing the onus of ensuring that police do what they're supposed to onto everyday civilians.


Cops treat people as potential threats by default? Please tell me you see how fucked up this way of thinking is.

If a cop has initiated an interaction with you, it's not for no reason. They can never assume that you're not a random nutcase that hates police and has no impulse control. They might stop someone and say "hey, your shoe's untied!" and get stabbed in the neck because that person hates cops. Being a cop makes you a target to anyone that hates authority and has violent tendencies, every time they they talk to someone they probably have little boost of adrenaline because they don't know what's going to happen. Every time they talk to a new person, they're going to be a little on edge until that person gives them a reason not to be.

That's the person you have to be, because you don't know what mental or emotional issues any given cop has, you don't know if they're a racist or a sexist or some other kind of bigot who's going to have some kind of preconceived notion about you. You don't know what's happened in their day or what's going on in their home life that might tilt their attitude into the red. You have to remember that almost every person they interact with while in uniform they're having some level of confrontation with. You also have to remember that they have a government entity telling them that they have authority over you, and they expect respect from you, whatever their idea of respect is.

Think from the point of view of their stresses, not just your own. Let that inform how you act around them and toward them. None of that is taking away their responsibility in not acting like a walking talking piece of excrement, but even if they are you can't let that make you act like anything other than a polite person to them.

Keep in mind that none of what I'm saying has any bearing on the issues this country has with our police forces, what I'm saying is for individuals.

 

[JDSN]

No one at editorial never stopped and asked to themselves: "Is this guy a cunt?"

 

[ReAxion]

If a cop has initiated an interaction with you, it's not for no reason.

If it's one of the illegal kinds of reasons, use these life hacks I've outlined, but really, the main thing I want to hammer home, and I cannot stress this enough - challenging me will result in your harm.

 

[CornBurrito]

"Don't challenge us and we won't hurt you"

If only that were true.

Yeah... Didn't the LAPD (or was it the NYPD) get caught planting drugs on innocent people in the past?

 

[Hale-XF11]

No one at editorial never stopped and asked to themselves: "Is this guy a cunt?"

or "Will this pour more gasoline on the fire?"

 

[Rest]

If it's one of the illegal kinds of reasons, use these life hacks I've outlined, but really, the main thing I want to hammer home, and I cannot stress this enough - challenging me will result in your harm.

Yes.



I suppose that you shouldn't look at this as an opinion piece, but a set of guidelines handed out by an observant cop. This isn't the way things should be, this is the way things are, and this person is trying to tell people how not to be a victim of a senseless murder or other crime by a cop. I don't think this article is trying to tell people "accept it, this is the way it is and the way it's always going to be." This isn't a piece of social commentary about how hard it is for cops or anything like that. This isn't a guy saying that this is what our society should expect, but something single individuals need to know to reduce their chances of coming to serious harm.

 

[Wazzy]

Wow. This cop is scum and this is sadly probably what a lot of police officers actually believe. Of course throw in the blatant racism from them too and it just creates all sorts of danger for minorities.

 

[CornBurrito]

If a cop has initiated an interaction with you, it's not for no reason. They can never assume that you're not a random nutcase that hates police and has no impulse control. They might stop someone and say "hey, your shoe's untied!" and get stabbed in the neck because that person hates cops. Being a cop makes you a target to anyone that hates authority and has violent tendencies, every time they they talk to someone they probably have little boost of adrenaline because they don't know what's going to happen. Every time they talk to a new person, they're going to be a little on edge until that person gives them a reason not to be.

That's the person you have to be, because you don't know what mental or emotional issues any given cop has, you don't know if they're a racist or a sexist or some other kind of bigot who's going to have some kind of preconceived notion about you. You don't know what's happened in their day or what's going on in their home life that might tilt their attitude into the red. You have to remember that almost every person they interact with while in uniform they're having some level of confrontation with. You also have to remember that they have a government entity telling them that they have authority over you, and they expect respect from you, whatever their idea of respect is.

Think from the point of view of their stresses, not just your own. Let that inform how you act around them and toward them. None of that is taking away their responsibility in not acting like a walking talking piece of excrement, but even if they are you can't let that make you act like anything other than a polite person to them.

Keep in mind that none of what I'm saying has any bearing on the issues this country has with our police forces, what I'm saying is for individuals.

Can you provide any real life example where a cop got stabbed or attacked by someone just out of the blue after the cop said something innocuous like "your shoe is untied."?

 

[Pickles Spill]

What you're explaining here all makes sense, insomuch that it follows some kind of logic. What you're not acknowledging is that a cop only has to THINK you're a threat. That's the crux of this entire issue, and why everyone should have a problem with this op-ed.

It's absolutely ridiculous that this officer is placing the onus of ensuring that police do what they're supposed to onto everyday civilians.


Cops treat people as potential threats by default? Please tell me you see how fucked up this way of thinking is.

It's human nature. You fear what you don't understand. Cops are people too and they have the same fears the rest of us do. Day in and day out, they encounter dangerous situations, so after a while, they need to treat new situations as potential threats. They can't think everything is going to be fine until it turns out for the worst.

 

[Rest]

Can you provide any real life example where a cop got stabbed or attacked by someone just out of the blue after the cop said something innocuous like "your shoe is untied."?

No, that's a hypothetical situation, but not one that any cop can dismiss as a possibility. As has been said, they're just people, and their main objective is to not be harmed in the course of their workday, whatever kind of harm that may be.

 

[Zombine]

I think what the big problem is with police is that they go out picking fights to validify their paycheck. Instead of keeping the peace, they incite violence to make it look like they are doing their job by arresting the bad guy.

There is no logic to what they do or who they pull over. Not all of these guys are brain surgeons. Instead of pulling over the guy who is swerving on the road, they pick on the black dude driving to his late night shift at work because he is "suspicious."

Now I know some absolutely wonderful cops, but even they protect their own. Officer finds out his cousin Larry is a drug addict? He gets a talking to and they try to fix the problem on the DL. But Chris who is unrelated to him and a Junkie due to his mental illness and the hardship he experienced in his life? Send that fuck to jail.

 

[CornBurrito]

No, that's a hypothetical situation, but not one that any cop can dismiss as a possibility. As has been said, they're just people, and their main objective is to not be harmed in the course of their workday, whatever kind of harm that may be.

Err yes it can be dismissed if it is something very unlikely to happen. And if they are just people they don't deserve the undue respect that they demand.

 

[Wazzy]

If a cop has initiated an interaction with you, it's not for no reason. They can never assume that you're not a random nutcase that hates police and has no impulse control. They might stop someone and say "hey, your shoe's untied!" and get stabbed in the neck because that person hates cops. Being a cop makes you a target to anyone that hates authority and has violent tendencies, every time they they talk to someone they probably have little boost of adrenaline because they don't know what's going to happen. Every time they talk to a new person, they're going to be a little on edge until that person gives them a reason not to be.
.

That is complete bullshit. When I was a teenager sitting with my brother and a couple friends and we were eating mcdonalds while drinking their dollar drinks, a cop pulled over and started asking us what we were doing. We were sitting on a grass area right beside my complex where everyone sits. I showed him we were eating mc donalds and he started questioning us with stupid crap like "Why are you out at this time?" even though it was only 9pm.

It's happened a couple times where police officers questioned me and some friends for no reason.

 

[Gorillaz]

Dat biggest gang in America power trip

 

[Badgerst3]

So with armed criminals now holding kids hostage in Illinois, I guess local police should drop their weapons and offer hugs?

There are very bad people out there liberal gaf.

Believe it or not cops do indeed sometimes keep monsters from the door.

 

[Rest]

Err yes it can be dismissed if it is something very unlikely to happen. And if they are just people they don't deserve the undue respect that they demand.

Define "very unlikely." The issue isn't whether they deserve respect, but what they'll do if they don't think they're getting it and what kind of practical recourse you have. Again, this article isn't about what communities should expect from police, but how it would behoove an individual to act when interacting with a cop.

 

[2San]

So with armed criminals now holding kids hostage in Illinois, I guess local police should drop their weapons and offer hugs?

There are very people out there liberal gaf. Believe it or not cops do indeed sometimes keep monsters from the door.

So there being criminals justifies cops being trash to the general public? Damn you have some bottom tier standards.

 

[CornBurrito]

Define "very unlikely." The issue isn't whether they deserve respect, but what they'll do if they don't think they're getting it and what kind of practical recourse you have. Again, this article isn't about what communities should expect from police, but how it would behoove an individual to act when interacting with a cop.

Very unlikely as in I haven't seen evidence provided by you or anyone else that suggests "random unprovoked assault" is a common thing police deal with. Certainly there job is high risk. But I don't believe that getting stabbed for going "your shoe is untied" is something that happens with any sort of regularity.

 

[slit]

So with armed criminals now holding kids hostage in Illinois, I guess local police should drop their weapons and offer hugs?

There are very bad people out there liberal gaf.

Believe it or not cops do indeed sometimes keep monsters from the door.

Keeping monsters from the door and playing god are not the same. That's an absurd sentiment.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

So with armed criminals now holding kids hostage in Illinois, I guess local police should drop their weapons and offer hugs?

There are very bad people out there liberal gaf.

Believe it or not cops do indeed sometimes keep monsters from the door.

....Okay.

I'm not really sure what this is in response to, like, anywhere in this thread. But uh...okay?

 

[Rest]

Very unlikely as in I haven't seen evidence provided by you or anyone else that suggests "random unprovoked assault" is a common thing police deal with. Certainly there job is high risk. But I don't believe that getting stabbed for going "your shoe is untied" is something that happens with any sort of regularity.

And that's not the point. They point is cops are swimming in a sea of unknown, you're one of the variables in that unknown. Don't give a cop any reason to think you're a negative known.

 

[linsivvi]

If a cop has initiated an interaction with you, it's not for no reason. They can never assume that you're not a random nutcase that hates police and has no impulse control. They might stop someone and say "hey, your shoe's untied!" and get stabbed in the neck because that person hates cops. Being a cop makes you a target to anyone that hates authority and has violent tendencies, every time they they talk to someone they probably have little boost of adrenaline because they don't know what's going to happen. Every time they talk to a new person, they're going to be a little on edge until that person gives them a reason not to be.

That's the person you have to be, because you don't know what mental or emotional issues any given cop has, you don't know if they're a racist or a sexist or some other kind of bigot who's going to have some kind of preconceived notion about you. You don't know what's happened in their day or what's going on in their home life that might tilt their attitude into the red. You have to remember that almost every person they interact with while in uniform they're having some level of confrontation with. You also have to remember that they have a government entity telling them that they have authority over you, and they expect respect from you, whatever their idea of respect is.

Think from the point of view of their stresses, not just your own. Let that inform how you act around them and toward them. None of that is taking away their responsibility in not acting like a walking talking piece of excrement, but even if they are you can't let that make you act like anything other than a polite person to them.

Keep in mind that none of what I'm saying has any bearing on the issues this country has with our police forces, what I'm saying is for individuals.

What a load of crap.

 

[Cipherr]

Don't fuck with them. They won't fuck with you.

If a cop has initiated an interaction with you, it's not for no reason.

Don't give a cop any reason to think you're a negative known.

My favorite newsroom quote: "Theres nothing I can do about being big and Black at the same time officer."

 

[Measley]

BTW, this only applies to the poor and working class folks. If you're rich or wealthy, cops aren't going to treat you this way. Especially if your family has connections in the community.

For everyone else? Basically we have an armed force of overseers that can kill us anytime we step out of line.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

So with armed criminals now holding kids hostage in Illinois, I guess local police should drop their weapons and offer hugs?

There are very bad people out there liberal gaf.

Believe it or not cops do indeed sometimes keep monsters from the door.

I mean, from your own example, they don't.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

And that's not the point. They point is cops are swimming in a sea of unknown, you're one of the variables in that unknown. Don't give a cop any reason to think you're a negative known.

lol okay

If military personnel stationed in Iraq can handle not painting everyone as a target, I think police in America can figure it out.

 

[CornBurrito]

And that's not the point. They point is cops are swimming in a sea of unknown, you're one of the variables in that unknown. Don't give a cop any reason to think you're a negative known.

Every human being is swimming in a sea of unknown.

Sorry, not going to give a cop leeway when they shoot up an unarmed teen because they are an irrational and racist fuck.

 

[linsivvi]

Oh, and BTW:

if you don’t want to get shot ..... just do what I tell you

Is exactly what the mafia would say.

 

[slit]

And that's not the point. They point is cops are swimming in a sea of unknown, you're one of the variables in that unknown. Don't give a cop any reason to think you're a negative known.

Gee, funny how the same argument can be made from the other side of that.

 

[Badgerst3]

Keeping monsters from the door and playing god are not the same. That's an absurd sentiment.

It's actually not- any patrol officer can go from a domestic violence call to a speeding ticket to an armed hostage situation in a given moment. Each situation may call for a different nuanced response, but end of the day- they gotta be ready to handle all 3.

And I have never heard any cop feel like they are "playing god"

 

[Siegcram]

So with armed criminals now holding kids hostage in Illinois, I guess local police should drop their weapons and offer hugs?

There are very bad people out there liberal gaf.

Believe it or not cops do indeed sometimes keep monsters from the door.

It's really hard to fuck up circular logic, but somehow you did it.

 

[Zombine]

Oh, and BTW:



Is exactly what the mafia would say.

Or a bank robber.

 

[Wazzy]

And that's not the point. They point is cops are swimming in a sea of unknown, you're one of the variables in that unknown. Don't give a cop any reason to think you're a negative known.

Yeah except they're the ones with the means to kill while most people are helpless so let's stop making excuses for police officers to get away with excessive force because they "might" be in danger.