Yeah you liberals like Cliven Bundy, just do what the authorities say, geez!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
LAPD Officer's Op-Ed: "Don't challenge us and we won't hurt you"
- Thread starter Angry Grimace
- Start date
- Status
Yeah you liberals like Cliven Bundy, just do what the authorities say, geez!
Multiple posters thinking US cops should be unarmed.
You've never heard them feel something. Ok, that makes no sense.
A cop has a very hard job, there is no question. That does NOT give him a blank check to fuck with people's lives, which happens a lot and I'm not just talking about the ones who murder.
Well you probably shouldn't do these things just out of respect for the person who is only doing his or her's job and also to avoid getting yourself into trouble(or more trouble). It does sound shitty when he is demanding you do it or he will physically punish you though.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
And I'm not asking you to, and that's not what this article is about.
Well, that's enough of this conversation for me for today. I think my posts make my point pretty clear, but I'll say it again: Nothing in this article excuses the crimes by police in this country. This article tells individuals how to reduce their risk of being a victim of police criminals, as far as violence and potentially deadly situations go. That same advice will also help you get let off with a warning if an officer is so inclined. Don't be rude, don't be belligerent, don't be argumentative, don't be contrarian to a cop, because plenty of them are looking for a reason to give you a hard time, or if they just think you're giving them one they'll return the favor.
SamuelSupreme
Banned
All I can think of is....Aggresive stances....agressive stances everywhere....
You think they didn't post this out of malice?
This article is disturbing on multiple levels. The worst part, to me, is that it's sound advice. The police are the biggest, baddest gang around. It doesn't matter what they tell you; you do it. Everyone knows they can ruin your day at the slightest provocation, and no one believes they face any repercussions for abusing their authority. Filing a complaint after the fact is a meaningless gesture.
And a lot of people are generally OK with this, because they assume they'll never be on a cop's bad side.
I don't know what the "right" thing to do is in an unjust encounter with the police. The deck is so stacked in their favor that you will pay a high price for standing on principle. At the same time, I don't want to advocate just gritting your teeth and letting it happen. I really admire the people who do stand up for themselves in that impossible situation. I hope that some day the police will be more accountable for their actions and less prideful of the absolute power they hold over the momentary lives of ordinary citizens.
And a lot of people are generally OK with this, because they assume they'll never be on a cop's bad side.
I don't know what the "right" thing to do is in an unjust encounter with the police. The deck is so stacked in their favor that you will pay a high price for standing on principle. At the same time, I don't want to advocate just gritting your teeth and letting it happen. I really admire the people who do stand up for themselves in that impossible situation. I hope that some day the police will be more accountable for their actions and less prideful of the absolute power they hold over the momentary lives of ordinary citizens.
MHWilliams
Member
How far does that go? Where's the line?
"I don't consent to the search officer."
"Am I free to go?"
Where is the line on "contrarian"? Spell it out for me. If calmly exercising those right is taken as giving them a hard time, are they right in returning the favor?
They shouldn't be unarmed, but maybe they need their first resort to be a different non-lethal weapon. What happened to all the over-tazing and "don't taze be bro" stuff? Now we have "don't kill me bro".
victreeb3l
Member
Even though this dude is sounding douchey, hes pretty much right. Dont piss the cop off, and just cooperate. Try to remember his badge numbers and shit and pursue legal action if you need to AFTER the interaction. You gain nothing, especially if youre a minority, by confronting the cop, calling him names and shouting about your rights. Even when you know your rights, can you really expect cops to follow protocol 100% of the time? I dont trust them to do that.
I cant believe that we even have to think about this in 2014 in America but you gotta do what you gotta do to save your ass, until all cops have body cameras so they can be held properly accountable.
I cant believe that we even have to think about this in 2014 in America but you gotta do what you gotta do to save your ass, until all cops have body cameras so they can be held properly accountable.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I am sure it has been said multiple times before, but the officer's advice is mostly sound. I am sure a lot comes from my white privilege, but I would absolutely never mouth off to a cop, much less get physical and I am the whitest of white men on the board. I would overcompensate that much more if I came from an ethnicity different than the majority of my area. It doesn't make it right, but it is common sense to avoid extra tickets, jail time, a nation in the back of the head or bullets. At the end of the day, cops are no smarter than the rest of society, which is exceptionally stupid, meaning that you don't agitate a bear with a gun.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
I don't believe him. If h said "some" then I would have but I know for a fact some people join the force with the fantasy of killing people.
He lists pretty much nothing that actually justifies the list of forceful responses he claimed might happen.
Then rambles on about how he's a crusader for proper conduct and cameras on officers.
With the entire premise being based on the role of the Police is to issue commands to be obeyed.
Good lord; talk about highlighting part of the systematic problem. Even the guys that think they aren't remotely corrupt think they are part cop part judge. To be obeyed and punishment will be given out!
Then rambles on about how he's a crusader for proper conduct and cameras on officers.
With the entire premise being based on the role of the Police is to issue commands to be obeyed.
Good lord; talk about highlighting part of the systematic problem. Even the guys that think they aren't remotely corrupt think they are part cop part judge. To be obeyed and punishment will be given out!
It's fine advice that ignores human biology and psychology. If your advice ignores the difficulties people have following the advice, it's not very useful. It's like telling a bullied kid to just stick up for themselves and expecting they will all just change their response to doing that.
I am sure it has been said multiple times before, but the rapist's advice is mostly sound. I am sure a lot comes from my male privilege, but I would absolutely never mouth off to a man, much less get physical and I am the manliest of manly men on the board. I would overcompensate that much more if I came from a gender different than the majority in power. It doesn't make it right, but it is common sense to avoid being sexually harassed, groped, having drugs slipped in your drink while not paying attention and raped. At the end of the day, rapists are no hornier than the rest of society, which is exceptionally horny, meaning that you don't arouse a wolf with a penis.
Yeah. Seems meekness can be dangerous.
I don't think so. There are certain truths to it. Maybe this is rash and hazardous to say of me, but I think people's opinions of this piece are clouded by its immediate relation to the Michael Brown situation. Which is a really heated emotional and might I mention historically important scenario happening at the moment. Better to view it I think outside of that context, as it does apply to so much more than that.
That said, I think observing it through a closer looking glass later on you'll likely find less and less to agree with.
But this right here sounds like a superiority complex to me. A slight one. But one yet. All the righteous intentions in the world aside, I don't think I've ever met a cop that's lacked at least a minuscule one. I know quite a few officers of the law, some are close family.
God there really is a defense force for everything on this site. You people realize we're talking about a cop, a man who swore to protect and serve, essentially telling people to comply with his rules under threat of bodily harm and death, right?
When you wear the badge you're a public servant and you have great responsibility to live up to. Yes, the fear of death is real for police officers, but if you can't live up to that without fucking shooting first, you shouldn't be an officer. Police should be respected; I want to look at police officers and think nothing but of the best of them, as brave men and women who willingly decided to lay their lives down for public safety, but for Christ's sake, that's just not happening now, not when they're launching tear gas at protestors angry over yet another unwarranted death of a black kid, not when they keep getting away with heinous crimes that anyone else would be locked away for years if they ever committed.
Most of the civilized world seems to get by just fine without them. Hell, Canadian officers are armed and this shit doesn't happen nearly as much. I legitimately cannot remember the last time I read or heard about police officers shooting down unarmed civilians, let alone multiple times in a single fucking week.
When you wear the badge you're a public servant and you have great responsibility to live up to. Yes, the fear of death is real for police officers, but if you can't live up to that without fucking shooting first, you shouldn't be an officer. Police should be respected; I want to look at police officers and think nothing but of the best of them, as brave men and women who willingly decided to lay their lives down for public safety, but for Christ's sake, that's just not happening now, not when they're launching tear gas at protestors angry over yet another unwarranted death of a black kid, not when they keep getting away with heinous crimes that anyone else would be locked away for years if they ever committed.
Most of the civilized world seems to get by just fine without them. Hell, Canadian officers are armed and this shit doesn't happen nearly as much. I legitimately cannot remember the last time I read or heard about police officers shooting down unarmed civilians, let alone multiple times in a single fucking week.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
One thing I agree with him about is the fact that all cops should have cameras on at all times. I can almost guarantee that people will be less pissy about things if they know that there will be video evidence of them getting fucked over by a cop on a power trip.
Complaining after the fact without any sort of video evidence makes people think there's no recourse whatsoever because they've seen enough stories where the cop essentially get's a paid vacation.
Complaining after the fact without any sort of video evidence makes people think there's no recourse whatsoever because they've seen enough stories where the cop essentially get's a paid vacation.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It could just be for an unfounded or ridiculous reason.
How does this have any bearing on justifiable use of force? You keep trying to explain how cops are as susceptible paranoia and fear as anyone else as if it refutes how ridiculous it is to defend police for their countless substantiated instances of entirely unwarranted force not merely all types of excessive force in the U.S. If you don't acknowledge that, you'll go on to come up with long "justifications" for unacceptable police behavior that completely miss the point.
Whether it's understandable for a police officer to be "a little on edge" does not mean what they do is okay.
Every last part of this is fucked up. If this were said here or in the op-ed with a preface admitting none of this should have to be true, and that it's law enforcement's responsibility to work on changing it, then it would be somewhat less sad, yet still pathetic.
Not to mention that someone could do everything you're suggesting they need to do and still get beaten, strangled, shot or otherwise abused by police, as is evident by the myriad news stories that surface every other week.
I can understand what police go through without having to tacitly condone their systematic failings. Just the thought of thinking all this without keeping "this is wrong" at the forefront of the mind sickens me.
Then the concept of a human police officer is flawed.
Chie Satonaka
Member
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I think in a different age, what he's saying would make sense. Problem is that there is a searchable history of cops being complete corrupt assholes that people no longer think that cops in general are not trying to completely fuck you over so they can have their power trip.
bishopcruz
Member
Gah, kinda painful to read. A few of the points work in the case of maximizing your own safety, and at least he admits that you can refuse searches, which most people don't know.
Best video on how to deal with asshole cops:
10 Rules For Dealing with Police
it's done by a defense attorney, and has some good tips.
Best video on how to deal with asshole cops:
10 Rules For Dealing with Police
it's done by a defense attorney, and has some good tips.
Oh please the kid is just being an ass. It's a drunk driving check point which cops do to keep people from getting killed. Not rolling his window down and asking stupid questions just makes it look like he is nervous and trying to hide something. He just rolled his window down he would have rolled right through.
pretty much.
The defense force for this op-ed digusts me.
I hope this happens to all you cowards who accept this as "just the way it is," as well as all you smug bastards who think everyone deserves what they get if they don't like the Faustian bargain (don't upset me emotionally and I won't hurt you physically) being offered by this cop:
https://medium.com/human-parts/good-samaritan-backfire-9f53ef6a1c10
^ This is a white man in a liberal city. He was not only roughed up, arrested with no charges, and denied medical care after taking a beating, he was placed in solitary confinement -- even though he was the one who called the police as a good samaritan act.
^ This could be you. And if you are okay with what this op-ed proposes, you fucking deserve for it to be you. Because it turns out, the deal is no good. Your politeness is no kind of guard against abuse. Jail time for cops who abuse their power might do something, but accepting their rapey "asking for it" terms of surrender, no.
You should think about the fact that even goddamn Egypt thinks our police are fucking up.
I hope this happens to all you cowards who accept this as "just the way it is," as well as all you smug bastards who think everyone deserves what they get if they don't like the Faustian bargain (don't upset me emotionally and I won't hurt you physically) being offered by this cop:
https://medium.com/human-parts/good-samaritan-backfire-9f53ef6a1c10
^ This is a white man in a liberal city. He was not only roughed up, arrested with no charges, and denied medical care after taking a beating, he was placed in solitary confinement -- even though he was the one who called the police as a good samaritan act.
^ This could be you. And if you are okay with what this op-ed proposes, you fucking deserve for it to be you. Because it turns out, the deal is no good. Your politeness is no kind of guard against abuse. Jail time for cops who abuse their power might do something, but accepting their rapey "asking for it" terms of surrender, no.
You should think about the fact that even goddamn Egypt thinks our police are fucking up.
Sàmban;126185999 said:
I don't get the hashtag really, but I hope someone comes in and tells me that this wouldn't be addressing all LEO's like usual here.
Listen, while this guy did a piss poor job at wording it, here's how it works:
Comply, then take appropriate actions if your freedoms were in fact violated. That's all. When you're flagged, comply and keep tensions down. It's in both of your best interests. If I confronted someone due to suspicions or confirmation of a criminal/unlawful act, I'm going to be heightened to what's happening. If you're yelling or screaming, making sudden movements, of course it's going to raise my suspicions and self-preservation levels. When things are at those levels of course things can escalate very quickly. Making sudden movements to wastebands/pockets, or trying to get close enough to me to where I know I can't fully react in time, that's not good. I'm not some random bro at a bar, I'm an authority figure in which you should recognize, and any person in their right mind should realize this. If you show aggression to my authority, then of course I'm going to suspect that you won't restrain yourself. Not sure how that's not simple to understand.
If you're worried about in a bad interaction, then if possible be in a better position of witnesses. For example, once followed someone lit up for over a mile down the road after they blew through a red light. They pulled into a busy parking lot that was well lit. They said they were worried, and didn't know if we were legit, and also said if we were real that it would be safer for all of us there with no traffic than being on the side of a road. That person got off with a verbal warning. If they cocked off, made a scene, resulting in us having to raise our levels, they would have been cited. That simple.
I do agree all officers should have cameras. If you do it by the book you have nothing to worry about, and they can actually prove your integrity and save your ass if people make false accusations, which happens more often than you'd think.
The only problem with that, even with the "cheap $1000 camera" fix that I see thrown around is that departments have to foot up the cash for these. Same departments which maybe running old vehicles, recycled near end of life vests, and worn out weapons/gear. They can't get new gear because they don't have tax support, and vests/guns are more important than cameras, so they'd come first, then vehicles, then cameras. And when voting ballets are shut down about raising taxes, or putting more money into local police departments, where is this money coming from then? The officers themselves, many of which don't make those higher end salaries found in big cities or affluent areas with high taxes? Making $10-14/hr you have to prioritize, as in real life bills, your own necessary equipment, then things like this.
MHWilliams
Member
Most people here aren't advocating you fight cops at every opportunity, but that's still not saying you you should comply with every request (or order) especially if that order is illegal in nature. Because ultimately there's no protection in either direction, if an officer decides to step over the line.
The statements in that Op-Ed weren't piss-poor, they were a complete and total misunderstanding of the role of law enforcement.
Again:
100 percent negative. If you stop and ask for an illegal search, I'm just supposed to comply or the officer can beat me? No. And advocating that in any way, shape, or form is simply ghastly.
Pickles the Firecat
Banned
So basically:
But don't worry. You can also "take appropriate action" against the organization that just violated your rights. By lodging a complaint with them after being violated. It's a one stop shop!
The hashtag is a sarcastic variation of #notallmen, a stupid "mens rights" type hashtag used when responding to legitimate complaints of sexism.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Contrary to what they want you to believe the police have absolutely 0 authority over you. Unless you commit a crime or they believe you may have committed a crime about the only thing they can do is ask you to identify who you are.
That's It.
MWS Natural
Member
The worst part is that this is one of the "good ones" the GAF Police Defense force always speak of
bonesmccoy
Banned
Amazing. This op-ed condenses all of the negative stereotypes people believe about American police.
I personally think that police should not use guns unless the assailant has a gun(or other kind of ballistic weapon). There are plenty of alternative effective ways to safely take out a target.
googleplex
Member
Nothing and I mean NOTHING gives this officer or any officer the fucking right to violate anyone civil liberties just because someone challenges his ego trip. Don't challenge me or tazed or pepper sprayed? What the fuck kind of America do you want to live in?
You are always in these cop threads posting nonsense. I didn't even have to search hard.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las-vegas-shooting-20140609-story.html
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Officer-Henwoods-Final-Act-of-Kindness-127886453.html
http://youtu.be/coQAeZh2_XU
- Status