It probably didn't. As far as I'm aware this is a pretty recent thing, as far as name change / publicly being out as a transgender woman.
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Larry Wachowski publicly debuts as... Lana Wachowski
- Thread starter NotTheGuyYouKill
- Start date
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It probably didn't. As far as I'm aware this is a pretty recent thing, as far as name change / publicly being out as a transgender woman.
I know Ninja Assassin went under major revisions throughout its production so maybe the name change fell by the wayside.
Mercury Fred
Banned
1. Good for her-- She looks happy!
2. With all that money, please get some dental work done. I mean c'mon.
2. With all that money, please get some dental work done. I mean c'mon.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Oops, wrong browser.
Baller. PhD
Banned
Oxigen I can understand, but LAUGHTREY too? Come on now. If we're all supossed to be open and tolerant than you need to respect his opinions too. To be honest I kind of agree with him, and I consider myself to be extremely liberal and very supportive of gay rights. If there's educating that needs to be done then by all means, enlighten us, but don't ban someone who was expressing his opinions in a calm, non-combative manner. That only reinforces the mindset that there are certain things that you just have to agree with on GAF lest you face the banhammer (like PC gaming on gaming-side). That's just... well, bullshit.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Again?
blame space
Banned
Ninja Assassin is the that shit
Do you somehow not see how fucking insulting it is for transgendered people - members of our community reading this thread no less - to be directly compared to ridiculous hypothetical people who want to mutilate themselves to look like Jesus or mermaids?
This is really all that needs to be said. People need to realize that they're not talking about a hypothetical group of people, they're talking about a sizable portion of members who are reading and posting in this thread, and showing a bit of compassion and respect would be great.
blame space
Banned
but what about religion!
Baller. PhD
Banned
Look, I'm not trying to offend anyone and neither was he. I'm not going to say much more than that because I don't want to be banned too.
All I will say if that if trans people want to be respected and taken seriously they need to educate their peers rather than call them bigots and cry for bans. Educate and convince, rather. The fact that he was actually banned for that makes my blood boil.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
*sigh*
Please explain your sigh. I don't understand what s/he did wrong to get the ban.
blame space
Banned
no one who's not an idiot needs convincing
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
The Wachowski's.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Havent they gone by The Wachowskis for a while now?
And if we're being gay sniping bitches, she needs to change her hair. Pink dreadlocks?Mmmm... gurl, no.
Good for her though. So long as she's happy, I can't knock (outside of the hair).
DrForester said:
Yeah, again. While it's been known she was going through a change, it was a gradual process and she was still a "he" during Speed Racer. This is the first film since she became a "she" to where the media blitz/advertising is going to show her fully.
(Hopefully that paragraph isn't banning/offensive. Trying to get the point across)
The whole South Park-inspired 'but what if I want to be a dolphin!' argument is actually offensive though. I don't take any personal offence cause I'm over getting worked up by what someone on the internet thinks.
There have been attempts to educate and to gently explain with dispassionate humour, to try and tell people that maybe they're not totally 100% informed on the subject, which is usually just met with stubborn opposition, how the medical establishment is in on a conspiracy, etc.
When you put the onus on trans people to justify and explain their own existence, it's probably going to get a little heated.
Here I thought the reasonable, not-idiotic thing to do would be to respect people and take them seriously by default. That way they'd have to convince me out of that position; that way I might not construct a hilariously specious argument that they'd have to defeat to justify their actions if not their entire existence before I ever learn anything about them.
I'm sorry but if you really don't see the issue here I don't know what to say.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Isn't this a big part of the problem with topics like this in mainstream culture? That there seems to be an attitude in place which demands people justify who and what they even are before you begin to converse with them as someone on your level?
And people don't see the kind of environment of antagonistic hostility that creates?
It's funny that the "dolphin" analogy is brought up because - let's be silly here, say you meet the guy (or woman) who wants to be a dolphin. One might start in by saying "you are obviously mentally ill, for I cannot imagine any conceivable reason why such an idea would be held by yourself. Prove to me you are not mentally ill before I learn anything more about you."
Or you go say "I don't know why people feel that way. Can you explain it to me?"
The second way actually seems to be the more rational course of action, to not start throwing out 'probable reasons' why someone is clearly damaged and not on your own level as a person / as rational as you just because something about them is strange or unfamiliar.
Unfortunately it seems the more common method of operation is to approach anything (anyone) that demands the walls of your reality tunnel to be widened with hostility, even if you don't realize that the attitude you're putting forth is in fact hostile.
Devolution
Member
That's not how he feels anymore. Pitiful attempt by the way.
People on neogaf act as if they are clairvoyant sometimes...
Yeah, calling a trans person "gross" literally before saying anything else really earns that poster the benefit of the doubt.
LaserBuddha
Member
This thread is going places.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Congratulations on her for feeling "finished" (?) enough to go public this way. Considering the age at which she started the process it might have been somewhat more difficult. Gotta say tho, this procedure works much better the earlier it begins and I hope at some point this becomes accepted enough people don't have to start it so late. I am unaware of her internal process but considering the way society tends to deal with transexuals at some point and depending on the particular environment walking down this path sadly might mean giving up all chances on a regular life (obviously not for her now or 10 years ago, I'm talking younger).
At this point I should just hit "submit reply" and move on but...
Now, homosexuals have it relatively easy (on modern societies of course) compared with transgender people. Life can be very, very rough to a transgender, not just because of internal conflict but also the way society treat them sometimes. Not so long ago in my country the only job a transgender was left to do was prostitution. A properly cared for online environment might be the only outlet for such a person and the moderators at this moment work hard to ensure neogaf remains as hospitable as possible to transgender people. Specially considering there's might be some guy/girl at a solid risk of suicide whose only floater might be the online communnity he's hanging onto for dear life.
However, I do feel moderation is getting extremely heavy handed on this issue. Specially language and pronouns... I mean some posters are extremely clear and should definitelly get a ban but... people from all over the world and different socioeconomical makeups post here, many of them using a language different than their own. I do dislike the pile-on mentality... moderation here is *extremely* protective of transgender people at this point, there's no need to ram it in. "Tranny" in particular... it's on many dictionaries as just "slang" or "colloquial" and outside the communnity or people well acquinted with it, there's many places and environments where such word has no negative connotation nor it is viewed as anything more than just a shorthand. Sure it is considered offensive today, no question... but language moves so, so fast on this matter. There's that guardian piece that pops up on google anytime you search "tranny offensive" that just boggles the mind at the speed words and meanings move in this field... it is easy for people who are not in it or well acquinted with it to be out of the loop. Pronouns can so easily slip, for someone not used to trans people specially... it was a "him" then now a "her" but wait no it was a "her" then and its a "her" now but how come it was a "her" instead of a "him"... heck as non-native English speaker, my pronouns slip sometimes on unrelated things.
So what's the point of all that? That it's very easy for someone to unwillingly and without intention to be offensive to make a couple mishaps. And the way these threads go, there's not always opportunity to clear it up. Specially for a junior, with the permaban and all that.
Because honestly sometimes these threads feel like a circus with a pack of posters waiting to throw themselves at anyone who falls from the tightrope just to toy with the poor sob until the ringmaster puts him/her to sleep.; meanwhile outside the ring posters "on the seats" are waiting popcorn at hand for the amusement to begin. I can almost hear the circus music.
Oh well, what's done is done. Gonna suck to lose subscribed threads if the hammer drops but c'est la vie.
At this point I should just hit "submit reply" and move on but...
Now, homosexuals have it relatively easy (on modern societies of course) compared with transgender people. Life can be very, very rough to a transgender, not just because of internal conflict but also the way society treat them sometimes. Not so long ago in my country the only job a transgender was left to do was prostitution. A properly cared for online environment might be the only outlet for such a person and the moderators at this moment work hard to ensure neogaf remains as hospitable as possible to transgender people. Specially considering there's might be some guy/girl at a solid risk of suicide whose only floater might be the online communnity he's hanging onto for dear life.
However, I do feel moderation is getting extremely heavy handed on this issue. Specially language and pronouns... I mean some posters are extremely clear and should definitelly get a ban but... people from all over the world and different socioeconomical makeups post here, many of them using a language different than their own. I do dislike the pile-on mentality... moderation here is *extremely* protective of transgender people at this point, there's no need to ram it in. "Tranny" in particular... it's on many dictionaries as just "slang" or "colloquial" and outside the communnity or people well acquinted with it, there's many places and environments where such word has no negative connotation nor it is viewed as anything more than just a shorthand. Sure it is considered offensive today, no question... but language moves so, so fast on this matter. There's that guardian piece that pops up on google anytime you search "tranny offensive" that just boggles the mind at the speed words and meanings move in this field... it is easy for people who are not in it or well acquinted with it to be out of the loop. Pronouns can so easily slip, for someone not used to trans people specially... it was a "him" then now a "her" but wait no it was a "her" then and its a "her" now but how come it was a "her" instead of a "him"... heck as non-native English speaker, my pronouns slip sometimes on unrelated things.
So what's the point of all that? That it's very easy for someone to unwillingly and without intention to be offensive to make a couple mishaps. And the way these threads go, there's not always opportunity to clear it up. Specially for a junior, with the permaban and all that.
Because honestly sometimes these threads feel like a circus with a pack of posters waiting to throw themselves at anyone who falls from the tightrope just to toy with the poor sob until the ringmaster puts him/her to sleep.; meanwhile outside the ring posters "on the seats" are waiting popcorn at hand for the amusement to begin. I can almost hear the circus music.
Oh well, what's done is done. Gonna suck to lose subscribed threads if the hammer drops but c'est la vie.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Bitmap Frogs, that's a great post, but can we really point to a time where someone has mistakenly used a word like that and been unconditionally banned for it? People usually aren't banned because they mistakenly used a word so much as they are for expressing hatred with those words.
As other posters have said if she wasn't a trans person, then it would be less frowned upon to judge her by her looks. What kind of bullshit is that? Also why make the jump that he's talking about all trans-gendered people and not just judging Lana particularly.
Edit: Good post Bitmap
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
So does the pronoun "She" retroactively apply to every past event of Wachowski's life?
Just curious. This thread went places.
Just curious. This thread went places.
It's generally considered polite, yes. I won't hound anyone on it, personally.
Devolution
Member
What do you mean? You just the use pronoun she for all facets of her life now. She was born on such and such date. She enrolled in x college. She wrote/directed the Matrix Trilogy.
I mostly agree with Bitmap Frogs, it's important to remember that GAF consists of many different cultures and sometimes a poster might not understand the slight differences between pronouns and stuff. In my first language for example he and she aren't separated and the same term is used for both.
I'm happy this forum takes these things seriously because life can be really hard for many transgendered people. We just have watch out the moderation doesn't go too far since it can easily become a witch hunt that way.
I'm happy this forum takes these things seriously because life can be really hard for many transgendered people. We just have watch out the moderation doesn't go too far since it can easily become a witch hunt that way.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Yeah, I really don't like this.
It narrowly projects certain concepts along a 2-dimensional axis, when I'm of the opinion that it should at the very least be projected within a 2-dimensional shape.
For an example, I'd separate biological sex into two separate continuum - primary and secondary sexual characteristics.
Gender identity, to me, is the same as gender expression and can be expressed along more directions than the sterotypical man-woman continuum - it incorporates existing and hypothetical non-woman/man genders that can't be reduced to something between man and woman.
Same goes with orientation, which I don't consider in terms of hetero/homo (with bi inbetween). To me, sexual orientation is a misnomer - we are instead attracted to a collective set of traits that vary from individual to individual.
It's not that hard.
The benefit of doubt is not given when you're dealing with a very exposed and vulnerable group of people.
Similar stuff happens in threads regarding minorities and even women to a degree, the mods overreach to just to be safe.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Gotcha. Never had to refer to a trans person by anything before, so at least I know now.
But for reals, guys... that pink hair looks dreadful. It hurts the eyes, that shade of pink. She looks far better with the dignified blonde hair.
Oh? Would you sign your name to all of these posts?
Standard "you're bigoted if you don't tolerate bigots" bullshit.
His "point of view" is that trans people are insane. Science disagrees with him. In this case, the Earth is not flat.
Yes, the venerable trans lobby is throwing millions of dollars around to push their ridiculous agenda so insane people can have superfluous surgeries at whim.
He has no idea what trans people have to go through to get the surgery he thinks is "ridiculous," and insists that there's no distinction between trans people and literally insane people. He admits he doesn't know anything about this subject, yet felt compelled to call trans people crazy. Who does that?
Which of those opinions is "worth respecting," exactly?
Freezie KO
Banned
Why is this acceptable? I had slightly angular teeth until my procedure (braces when I was 13). Be a little more sensitive.
Good Job Bob
Member
Yes, very very old.
It's simple. It's a pretty complex topic for sure but if you show that to a kid it will be much easier for them to understand.
Devolution
Member
It's still pretty good for what it's trying to explain even if I don't agree with putting people on such linear narrow constructs. What would your 3 dimensional space look like? Also they're on one dimension.
Hold on you guys are replying to him as if he were being serious.
Devolution
Member
He very well could be.
LaserBuddha
Member
You almost tricked me.
Highlight someone in this thread whose sole mistake was to use a wrong pronoun who got "piled on." There isn't anyone. Some people may have gotten corrected multiple times due to the way forums work, but not with hostility.
If you want to use "tranny" and don't find it personally offensive, go somewhere else to use it (hopefully where there aren't any trans people to hear you). Is it so difficult to learn that a (fairly uncommon) word is hurtful and adjust your vocabulary accordingly?
wat?
I think is pretty self explaining, I don't see the need for putting two more dimensions with axis I can't honestly imagine but be my guest.
Baller. PhD
Banned
That's where we're at though, in the U.S. at least. If they didn't need to explain then we wouldn't be having this conversation. You can argue that they shouldn't have to explain themselves, and maybe that's true, but right now the vast majority of people in the U.S. (myself included) are simply unfamiliar. If you want to change the minds of the unfamiliar masses then you'll need to justify. Real world and all.
Me personally? I'll be honest now. My first reaction to the thoughT of transgenderism is very similar to what LAIGHTREY said. I don't mean to offend anyone by that, I really don't, but that's my gut reaction. My thought process is that it simply isn't natural. I dislike all cosmetic surgery for this reason. I don't think that elective cosmetic surgeries are things that grounded, responsible adults should want because they're basically saying that they believe that their surgeon knows better than mother nature. On the flipside, two dudes getting it on seems perfectly natural to me because both guys are experiencing biological arousal and stimulation. You can't "fake" being gay, after all.
Someone having surgury to change their body to look like something it's not just seems like an unhealthy extreme to me. No matter how many surgeries a MtF trans person has, the new vagina isn't a real vagina, if that makes sense. The FtM penis is even more shocking and equally unnatural. How do we explain gender dysphoria, then? I'd speculate that it's a mental condition. I don't mean that negatively, I truly don't, and I don't propose to be a psychologist with a plan of treatment. All of my knowledge stems from the sum of my personal experiences. I know that there have been times in my life when I needed help myself, and I greatly benefited from seeing a therapist and working things out. I believe that there just has to be a healthy, scientific solution to dysphoria that doesn't result in what is ultimately voluntary castration.
Now, I've never known a trans individual personally and have not been exposed to their lifestyle. I admit that. I imagine most people are in the same boat. However, despite not having any exposure to the trans community I still have my pre-conceived beliefs regarding what is natural. It's my right as a human bring to have those beliefs. If my beliefs offend you then I am truly sorry as that is absolutely not my intent. If you have a rational counter to my beliefs them by all means share. I'm open-minded. Just don't call me a bigot and act like I'm insane for thinking this way. There's nothing "tolerant" in reacting like that. My beliefs, like yours, are the product of the environments and experiences that I've been exposed to during my life. They are just as valid as any until proven otherwise.
NewGamePlus
Member
FWIW, they did make a more complex version.
Freezie KO
Banned
This is a privately-owned forum, and you don't have any rights to express your beliefs here.
Why prove you otherwise when it's faster to ban you?
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