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League of Legends Championship Series: Season 5
- Thread starter Edwardo
- Start date
Kotetsu534
Member
Worthy sequel to the great CLG.eu/M5 games, honestly. Pretty much played like a season 2 game, complete with annoying audience sounds and finished with a catch from a baron bait. GosuPepper utterly distraught after losing it because he knows Gambit's playoff hopes are hanging by a thread. Well, they'll probably be okay if they beat H2K tomorrow, but they could have got the job done today.
Imperfected
Member
I mean, they probably could have held out that last siege if he hadn't died due to a fail flash. A fail flash when he was model-to-wall with the barrier he was trying to flash over for a good two seconds before making the attempt.
He's bad and he should feel bad.
Kotetsu534
Member
Maybe, I'm pretty sure he was dead anyway since Elements were committed to chasing him and Gambit were backing off. Nyph still had Flash up and his Unbreakable Will was about to time out. Even if he escaped they'd be down two inhibs, Baron, and Aspect by the time Diamond was back up, and that would be the end.
The biggest mistake Gambit made after the first 20 minutes was probably moving to push bot after catching Jwaow and throwing away the first two inhib towers. Really good call by Elements to have Tabzz and dexter stay pushing at that point.
The biggest mistake Gambit made after the first 20 minutes was probably moving to push bot after catching Jwaow and throwing away the first two inhib towers. Really good call by Elements to have Tabzz and dexter stay pushing at that point.
So I finished watching the games and once there is something at stake games are riddled with errors even more than usual.
And about errors, how painful it was to watch Diamond and Gosu vs El. Especially Diamond, with how good he was once I never though he could be such a burden to his team (and it is not just how he was picked at the end).
Just bring the playoffs so we are done with BO1 (hopefully forever).
And about errors, how painful it was to watch Diamond and Gosu vs El. Especially Diamond, with how good he was once I never though he could be such a burden to his team (and it is not just how he was picked at the end).
Just bring the playoffs so we are done with BO1 (hopefully forever).
Imperfected
Member
Diamond's Gragas just isn't very good, but unlike the other teams that run Lee Sin Gambit isn't really good enough as a team for him to get away with it, sadly. Lee Sin's a viable pick if you have strong lanes and the ability to close out games reliably with a mid-game lead, but neither of those statements are really true of Diamond's teammates.
I still think he's a decent jungler, but he's a carry jungler through and through. Neither the meta nor the team he's on particularly suit him.
Stone Ocean
Member
Our heavy engage comp has an advantage? Let's just allow the enemy poke comp to scale!
Also enemy has poke? Double Phantom Dancer time!
Also enemy has poke? Double Phantom Dancer time!
Imperfected
Member
Would be interesting to see Freeze on a team where the opponents can't afford to blow a ban on Draven every single game. I still don't think they'd play it very often because TSM doesn't tend to run compositions that support the pick, but still.
I'm not sure why Gambit's trying to run a poke/split-push composition. I guess because they've consistently proven incapable of closing games with both split-push and poke, they figure the only choice is to do both simultaneously?
Stone Ocean
Member
Oooh top Tahm
Imperfected
Member
Freddy going to be playing hard if this is his CV for getting picked up by another team, I guess. Not much question he's burned the bridge with SK after recording that video.
Edit: Three Frozen Hearts seems like a bit much, even versus Kalista, but I guess you do what you've got to do.
Edit: Three Frozen Hearts seems like a bit much, even versus Kalista, but I guess you do what you've got to do.
Kotetsu534
Member
What a great series between CJ and SKT. Shy's Shen in game 2 was masterful as CJ schooled SKT in global pressure. Game 3 was wild and while Marin got completely out of control (150cs, on a top laner, at 15 minutes, much of it jungle) CJ had so much damage with Kog'Maw and Azir that they eventually overcame him. Faker actually had one of his extreme rare bad games in the decider on TF. That's SKT's first series loss since EDG beat them at MSI.
Mister Negative
Member
support trundle what IS THIS
Imperfected
Member
He went up a decent 30-ish CS on Rumble in lane, and was functionally impossible to kill in team fights. He drew a lot of (wasted) poke from Froggen's Varus, too, and got a couple of good Abyssal initiations onto Elements.
Pretty much everything you'd want versus a poke comp.
Yeah the grey health thing seems kinda broken. They basically had to go over his health bar twice.
Imperfected
Member
They'll probably cut into the bonus health scaling and bump up the base values a bit, to make him less powerful as a top laner and more viable as a support.
I assume it mostly snuck through as-is because he's slightly underwhelming as a support, and people weren't testing him top lane extensively.
Imperfected
Member
He really is not a very good Poppy player. (Thank god.)
Edit: Let me amend that to "He may be the worst Poppy player I've ever seen."
Okay, yeah, second amendment: definitely the worst Poppy I've ever seen, including ARAMs.
Edit: Let me amend that to "He may be the worst Poppy player I've ever seen."
Okay, yeah, second amendment: definitely the worst Poppy I've ever seen, including ARAMs.
Vizicsacsi mistake was to not pick the superior Poppy skin (you know which one). Deserves to be dispatched by a troll.*
I suppose it boils down to the importance of the points earned by reaching the semi even if it is against Fnatic vs playing H2K in quarter for the gauntlet. But I have not checked how it will play in details.
I suppose it boils down to the importance of the points earned by reaching the semi even if it is against Fnatic vs playing H2K in quarter for the gauntlet. But I have not checked how it will play in details.
Kotetsu534
Member
It's interesting. If the teams think they have a serious shot at being #2 in Europe they should play to lose so they avoid Fnatic in the SFs but face H2K in the QFs. If they just want to have the easiest QF opponent possible they should play to in to avoid H2K (and play UoL instead).
Ah, that is true. Easiest way to semifinals versus easiest way to finals. From an outsider's perspective I don't think any one of them has what it takes to get #2, so winning the game should be better. Whether the teams actually think they have a shot at #2 is another matter.
Imperfected
Member
The thing is, Giants and Roccat both have zero championship points, so to be honest anything short of a 2nd place finish has extremely diminished value for both teams. They should probably bet on the Hail Mary for 2nd. (Though, to be honest, whether or not H2K bumps them out on points is probably going to be out of their hands, regardless.)
Imperfected
Member
I don't hope very high for their chances against SKT. I think the terrible European competition has probably held them back from really refining their play. They should at least be able to avoid embarrassing themselves against the Wild Card/SEA teams, though, which might be a bridge too far for their compatriots and the current crop of NA teams.
Imperfected
Member
My main concern is that the Korean and Chinese teams have shown high proficiency with four distinct compositions: Poke, 1-3-1 Split Push, Triple Global, and Lane Bully/Fast Tower Push.
NA teams have become fairly well practiced at Poke and 1-3-1 Split Push comps, but basically have no experience playing against (competent) examples of the others. EU teams have practice against Triple Global comps, but no real experience playing against (competent) examples of the other three.
Hopefully Fnatic can get some international scrims in during the run-up to Worlds so they can see how a Poke comp works when it isn't Elements running it, but I really worry they haven't been forced to actually adapt to these strategies due to how poorly their opponents have played them.
I also really, really worry that neither region is prepared for a Bully/Fast Push composition at all. Both regions have gotten used to lane swaps, slow scaling mids, and objective trades. I think they're going to get a rude awakening when a team like EDG shows up with a comp full of early game champs and says, "Yeah, we're not trading shit. We're taking everything and you get nothing."
Edit: Really smart concession by Roccat there. Galio was 4 seconds from respawning with Teleport available, and Yasuo was 4 seconds form respawning with no TP. They would have been slaughtered and lost the game.
NA teams have become fairly well practiced at Poke and 1-3-1 Split Push comps, but basically have no experience playing against (competent) examples of the others. EU teams have practice against Triple Global comps, but no real experience playing against (competent) examples of the other three.
Hopefully Fnatic can get some international scrims in during the run-up to Worlds so they can see how a Poke comp works when it isn't Elements running it, but I really worry they haven't been forced to actually adapt to these strategies due to how poorly their opponents have played them.
I also really, really worry that neither region is prepared for a Bully/Fast Push composition at all. Both regions have gotten used to lane swaps, slow scaling mids, and objective trades. I think they're going to get a rude awakening when a team like EDG shows up with a comp full of early game champs and says, "Yeah, we're not trading shit. We're taking everything and you get nothing."
Edit: Really smart concession by Roccat there. Galio was 4 seconds from respawning with Teleport available, and Yasuo was 4 seconds form respawning with no TP. They would have been slaughtered and lost the game.
Kotetsu534
Member
When Fnatic were playing in the spring split they were noted for heavy early aggression with Yellowstar roaming much quicker and more effectively than other supports, and Huni has always excelled at great use of TP. Deilor and his staff do meticulous research on their opponents and will prepare them well. I wouldn't think they'll be caught off guard by a fast push comp.
I think they'll end up losing to SKT or EDG because in straight up, old fashioned nuts and bolts laning mechanics they'll be outclassed over a best of 5. I expect Faker, PawN and Marin, in particular, will prove to be clearly better than Febiven and Huni, and smart rotations and pick/ban phases can only cover that up for so long, especially with their extreme champion pools and junglers as smart and experienced as Clearlove and bengi (neither of whom gets close to the credit they deserve). Their bot lane will have to do a lot of work, and they definitely have a non-negligible chance of sneaking an upset, but LoL history has shown that it's very hard to beat better solo lane players over 5 games.
I also think they deserve the hype - this is the best western LoL team there's ever been, and in terms of relative strength with Korea and China, likely the best since the days of M5. And not only that, but seven months ago three of the players were unproven rookies! I think it's interesting how many of the great LoL teams have shot from nowhere to the top in (relatively) short spaces of time (consider CJ Blaze, Moscow 5, Najin Sword, TPA, OMG, SKT-T1 K, Cloud9, KT A, new Fnatic). Even the Samsung teams didn't take much longer than a few months to dominate Korea after being finalised.
I think they'll end up losing to SKT or EDG because in straight up, old fashioned nuts and bolts laning mechanics they'll be outclassed over a best of 5. I expect Faker, PawN and Marin, in particular, will prove to be clearly better than Febiven and Huni, and smart rotations and pick/ban phases can only cover that up for so long, especially with their extreme champion pools and junglers as smart and experienced as Clearlove and bengi (neither of whom gets close to the credit they deserve). Their bot lane will have to do a lot of work, and they definitely have a non-negligible chance of sneaking an upset, but LoL history has shown that it's very hard to beat better solo lane players over 5 games.
I also think they deserve the hype - this is the best western LoL team there's ever been, and in terms of relative strength with Korea and China, likely the best since the days of M5. And not only that, but seven months ago three of the players were unproven rookies! I think it's interesting how many of the great LoL teams have shot from nowhere to the top in (relatively) short spaces of time (consider CJ Blaze, Moscow 5, Najin Sword, TPA, OMG, SKT-T1 K, Cloud9, KT A, new Fnatic). Even the Samsung teams didn't take much longer than a few months to dominate Korea after being finalised.
The only team i see all the knob-slobbing happen to is TSM.
Imperfected
Member
Representative statement. There's plenty of talk about how Fnatic is "the best team the west has ever seen" without having won a single international event. Pretty fair to say they're getting full-ride lip service at the moment, chief.
It's like when people were billing Cloud 9 as the Great White Hope because they showed up and stomped on the broken old husks of Reginald-era TSM, Scarra-era Dig, and Hotshot-era CLG. The only thing that can definitively said about Fnatic at the moment is that they're not as bad as the rest of the teams in Europe.
Yeah. It's almost C9 all over again. Stomping their terrible region over and over only to go to Worlds and get stomped? We'll have to see. I actually think Fnatic will do better than C9 did but it's still a long shot for any good showing.