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League of Legends Championship Series: Season 5

T

thestopsign

Member
Lemon really needs to stop with the Karma. I think he wanted Janna there in the last game, but Adrian picked it away in the last rotation before him.
 
G

Ghost is Bad

Banned
both teams had ridiculously bad pick/bans

lemons karma was ridiculously ineffective and im baffled he didnt decide to pick braum or annie, especially considering how much power both picks would have vs tips team comp

on tips side, the velkoz pick was godawful and didn't do jack shit. why didnt they pick the viktor? why didnt they just put the lulu mid and pair it with an impact top carry? im honestly appalled at how both teams played
 
S

Shining Sunshine

Banned
Incarnation is okay. It's not really impressive playing against Gate.

He doesn't roam and doesn't create picks for his team. I didn't see any huge plays from him. It was all about Hai getting the picks on the three wins.
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
Incarnation was huge in game 4 after Hai and Lemon got themselves killed in enemy jungle and Rush had control of the map. Applied a ton of pressure 1v1 in mid lane and made a crucial roam to help bot lane out which got him ahead. Played the scrappy fights well too even if it was Sneaky who got fed out of them. Balls had a good series too (considering that he was against Impact who carried game 1).
 
S

Shining Sunshine

Banned
Kotetsu534 said:
Incarnation was huge in game 4 after Hai and Lemon got themselves killed in enemy jungle and Rush had control of the map. Applied a ton of pressure 1v1 in mid lane and made a crucial roam to help bot lane out which got him ahead. Played the scrappy fights well too even if it was Sneaky who got fed out of them. Balls had a good series too (considering that he was against Impact who carried game 1).
Click to expand...

I don't know what game you were watching, but his Diana was super garbage in the early game getting caught out with early deaths. Diana supposed to gank lanes with the TP, but Incarnation never got anything out of TP but split push.

He only gets kills later on in the game against easy picks on chunked out champs in team fights.

And Balls "did well" against Shen because Shen was counterpicked with Vayne and Gragas. So, no, Balls wasn't particularly great against Impact. He was only big during team fights with his ult.

Edit: Game 1 is probably the only time we'll ever see this.

IKb3C6A.jpg
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
Shining Sunshine said:
I don't know what game you were watching, but his Diana was super garbage in the early game getting caught out with early deaths. Diana supposed to gank lanes with the TP, but Incarnation never got anything out of TP but split push.

He only gets kills later on in the game against easy picks on chunked out champs in team fights.

And Balls "did well" against Shen because Shen was counterpicked with Vayne and Gragas. So, no, Balls wasn't particularly great against Impact. He was only big during team fights with his ult.

Edit: Game 1 is probably the only time we'll ever see this.

IKb3C6A.jpg
Click to expand...

Agreed I feel like so many people say X players is good base off their end game score line. Rather than watching the game like with Pobelter vs TSM he got out played so many times but because their bot/top was dominating so hard he just got handed free kills. Then eventually took over but that's way after the fact that they bail him out and pretty much put 1 to 2.5k into his pockets. It's not hard to do tons of damage when you're up a 1-2 levels and 2-3K gold compared to your lane opponent.
 
G

Ghost is Bad

Banned
wut

pobelter consistently had the better roams, the better lane pressure and had cs leads during almost all points in their games. part of that was the viktor pick, but the fact that he could draw 4 people from tsm game 2 towards him and live to solo kill bjerg's melee range yasuo is not just "team carrying him."
 
S

Subtle

Member
Kalentan said:
Wait people actually believe this is all paid?
Click to expand...

I'm joking. But the storylines are getting pretty wild. CLG 3-0's long time rival TSM, and C9 reverse sweeps two teams in a row on its way to Worlds. Fingers crossed C9 pulls through tomorrow, that would be great. Most exciting LCS split by far.

I've been a C9 fan since Sneaky was the only Ashe player in S3
 
S

Shining Sunshine

Banned
Ghost is Bad said:
wut

pobelter consistently had the better roams, the better lane pressure and had cs leads during almost all points in their games. part of that was the viktor pick, but the fact that he could draw 4 people from tsm game 2 towards him and live to solo kill bjerg's melee range yasuo is not just "team carrying him."
Click to expand...

Pobelter had really costly roams if you don't remember. He was caught out twice following Bjergsen and it almost aced CLG.

To be even with Bjergsen is really good already because it prevents Bjergsen from pressuring other lanes. A far cry from Incarnation going even with Gate.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
Ghost is Bad said:
wut

pobelter consistently had the better roams, the better lane pressure and had cs leads during almost all points in their games. part of that was the viktor pick, but the fact that he could draw 4 people from tsm game 2 towards him and live to solo kill bjerg's melee range yasuo is not just "team carrying him."
Click to expand...

Go back and watch the games.

Even in the match up where he he outplayed (that lead to Zion's fb he fucked up in the team fight top and gave Santorin a triple on Ekko).

Game #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=2495
(Down in CS and priority early game, but CLG ahead 1-0 thanks to Zion)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=2569
(really bad roam but CLG TOP/BOT both had priority, which also allowed him to roam because Rush hour pushed up)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=2704
(Got kills off teammates plays)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=3930
(kills off Aphro/Zion play)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=4175
(kill of Zion out play of Dyrus)


That's all from game #1.

And this is just me going off of what I remember, don't have time to re-watch frame by frame of all 3 games.

And I'm saying this as a CLG fan.

I can remember a few off the top of my head for game #2, and 3 too like the Zion gnar outplay, the ekko pay I mention earlier. The one great play he did make was when near baron TSM over chase for him and he out played Bjerg and company with his R> Zhoyna and tick Bjerg during stasis of zhoynas.
 
T

thestopsign

Member
WesternHeretic said:
Go back and watch the games.

Even in the match up where he he outplayed (that lead to Zion's fb he fucked up in the team fight top and gave Santorin a triple on Ekko).

Game #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=2495
(Down in CS and priority early game, but CLG ahead 1-0 thanks to Zion)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=2569
(really bad roam but CLG TOP/BOT both had priority, which also allowed him to roam because Rush hour pushed up)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=2704
(Got kills off teammates plays)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=3930
(kills off Aphro/Zion play)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6kj36Y-qU&feature=player_detailpage#t=4175
(kill of Zion out play of Dyrus)


That's all from game #1.

And this is just me going off of what I remember, don't have time to re-watch frame by frame of all 3 games.

And I'm saying this as a CLG fan.

I can remember a few off the top of my head for game #2, and 3 too like the Zion gnar outplay, the ekko pay I mention earlier. The one great play he did make was when near baron TSM over chase for him and he out played Bjerg and company with his R> Zhoyna and tick Bjerg during stasis of zhoynas.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure the second video link there was probably not his macro call to make there. Rush Hour called him down to that lane to give pressure and take turret, which they managed to do because his presence made TSM back off bot, and he didn't even lose mid. He did fuck up the roam where Santorin got a triple in top lane, that was his one major mistake.

You are right in that he didn't make a lot of plays on his own and relied on his team to set him up, BUT Viktor is a reactionary/defensive control mage in mid. He isn't able to initiate much unless someone facechecks a bush or something and he can get his whole combo off on them. He is a much more effective at clean up due to his large amount of damage.
 
L

Leezard

Member
I can't believe C9 got to pull off another reverse sweep. Sometime somewhere you have to wonder how bad Team Impulse were to let this happen. Gravity sure, they've been on the #1 spot in NA for a while but they were overrated all along.

Is Team Impulse Liquid going to be able to throw a series against C9 with Karma?
 
S

Shining Sunshine

Banned
TIP just had bad pick and bans compiling their problem with Gate and Apollo.

Last game should have first pick Gragas and banned Azir, Kalista. Vayne isn't that amazing. Any competent ADC can play the 3-4 ADCs that are available, so didn't need to ban that.

Rush never played Ekko. Not professionally, not soloQ. It showed he wasn't effective at it, so it was a huge risk.
But he is undefeated on Gragas, even beaten Team Liquid twice in the Spring Playoffs with him. Why didn't he pick it?
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
Shining Sunshine said:
I don't know what game you were watching, but his Diana was super garbage in the early game getting caught out with early deaths. Diana supposed to gank lanes with the TP, but Incarnation never got anything out of TP but split push.
Click to expand...

In game 4 he gets caught out once right at the start with a loop around gank after having his Flash blown. Then his teammates make much bigger errors and TiP take a massive early game advantage, to the point where the series looks like it's over. But he stays calm and applies an absolute ton of pressure despite the early camp. At 7 minutes he is pushed up with Gate chunked out while his bot lane has taken an awful trade and Rush has deep wards.

At 9 minutes his bot lane his ganked, but he reacts almost instantly with TP to collect one kill on Impact and manages to return to his lane much faster than Gate to push in and secure pressure. Even so, his top laner messes up and dies to the enemy jungler, so his team fall further behind. At 10 minutes Sneaky takes another awful trade and Impulse have totally control of both the top and bot sides of the map, with Rush 3-0. By 12 minutes they are over 3k up. They are miles ahead, to the point where they can afford to 4-man dive Incarnation with Shen ult, because it's the only place on the map they aren't winning (I guess you could say he got caught, but that's not what happened by any reasonable understanding of the game). This over-commitment leads to Sneaky taking bot tower and getting some good farm to catch him up.

At 17 minutes Hai dies for free and C9 are still in a big hole. Balls then gets caught under tower and dies too. Incarnation catches Impulse off guard by diving on to them and snagging a 3-man Moonfall, drawing fire and flashing out, buying time for Sneaky to DPS them. Unfrortunately he Tumbles in and dies. Good thing for C9 that Incarnation had already based and started channelling his TP to a ward in lower jungler and was able to catch up to Gate and secure his shut down streak. So in the biggest swing play of the closest and most important game Incarnation kept his head while three members of his team lost theirs and made two huge plays, and to back it up, when his team was losing all over the map he was holding his own and forcing overmanned dives. That's what "massive" performances are made of, in my book, not end game KDAs.

But while I'm the last kind of person to hang on LCS casters' every word, they actually got it right on Incarnation over the last two days - but for him his team would've lost both series.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Shining Sunshine said:
TIP just had bad pick and bans compiling their problem with Gate and Apollo.

Last game should have first pick Gragas and banned Azir, Kalista. Vayne isn't that amazing. Any competent ADC can play the 3-4 ADCs that are available, so didn't need to ban that.

Rush never played Ekko. Not professionally, not soloQ. It showed he wasn't effective at it, so it was a huge risk.
But he is undefeated on Gragas, even beaten Team Liquid twice in the Spring Playoffs with him. Why didn't he pick it?
Click to expand...

Probably got wires crossed in communication, or his team wanted something else.

It was an amateur pick. He picks Ekko..why? Probably because his team wanted Ekko.
 
N

NSESN

Member
OG is so overrated, but it makes me worried for FNC, if they lost 2 games to them it's signal FNC will have hard time at worlds.
 
T

thestopsign

Member
NSESN said:
OG is so overrated, but it makes me worried for FNC, if they lost 2 games to them it's signal FNC will have hard time at worlds.
Click to expand...

I was very unimpressed by both teams in the finals. I thought they both exposed a lot of weaknesses to each other. I think Fnatic is not going to do as well at worlds as many are thinking.

That said the adjustments to the patches are going to be very important and are going to make it very chaotic once the Group Stages start.
 
E

Elixist

Member
im rooting for origen, soaz is still hella good and the mans an innovator (maybe not as much of late) peke is clutch. we all kno dat. niels seems pretty good i havent watched much of eu this split.
 
T

thestopsign

Member
Elixist said:
im rooting for origen, soaz is still hella good and the mans an innovator (maybe not as much of late) peke is clutch. we all kno dat. niels seems pretty good i havent watched much of eu this split.
Click to expand...

Niels, Rekkles, MrRallez, and Forgiven (when not suspended) are the best ADCs in EU. I'd say they are all pretty close skill level, with Forgiven probably being the best depending on the meta (very reliant on certain picks).
 
N

NSESN

Member
OG played a little better this last games, but please peke, if you fall behind like this in worlds OG has no chances.
 
S

Shining Sunshine

Banned
Origen won was obvious. They seem out of it yesterday, so I expected them to easily win today.

I expect TL to win today as well. They don't have terrible players in any lane, and Koreans in carry positions is much better than Top and Jungle.

Kotetsu534 said:
In game 4 he gets caught out once right at the start with a loop around gank after having his Flash blown. Then his teammates make much bigger errors and TiP take a massive early game advantage, to the point where the series looks like it's over. But he stays calm and applies an absolute ton of pressure despite the early camp. At 7 minutes he is pushed up with Gate chunked out while his bot lane has taken an awful trade and Rush has deep wards.

At 9 minutes his bot lane his ganked, but he reacts almost instantly with TP to collect one kill on Impact and manages to return to his lane much faster than Gate to push in and secure pressure. Even so, his top laner messes up and dies to the enemy jungler, so his team fall further behind. At 10 minutes Sneaky takes another awful trade and Impulse have totally control of both the top and bot sides of the map, with Rush 3-0. By 12 minutes they are over 3k up. They are miles ahead, to the point where they can afford to 4-man dive Incarnation with Shen ult, because it's the only place on the map they aren't winning (I guess you could say he got caught, but that's not what happened by any reasonable understanding of the game). This over-commitment leads to Sneaky taking bot tower and getting some good farm to catch him up.

At 17 minutes Hai dies for free and C9 are still in a big hole. Balls then gets caught under tower and dies too. Incarnation catches Impulse off guard by diving on to them and snagging a 3-man Moonfall, drawing fire and flashing out, buying time for Sneaky to DPS them. Unfrortunately he Tumbles in and dies. Good thing for C9 that Incarnation had already based and started channelling his TP to a ward in lower jungler and was able to catch up to Gate and secure his shut down streak. So in the biggest swing play of the closest and most important game Incarnation kept his head while three members of his team lost theirs and made two huge plays, and to back it up, when his team was losing all over the map he was holding his own and forcing overmanned dives. That's what "massive" performances are made of, in my book, not end game KDAs.

But while I'm the last kind of person to hang on LCS casters' every word, they actually got it right on Incarnation over the last two days - but for him his team would've lost both series.
Click to expand...

Those things you pointed out don't matter.

The plays that do matter is when Hai and Sneaky make a play that aced the other team. Incarnation made none of those happen. Please watch again.
 
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