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[Kotetsu534]

Game 4: C9 vs. TSM

These teams look a bit different. C9 have multiple tanks and a Sivir as usual, but with Vladimir in the top lane and Zed in the mid lane they have some serious splitpushing potential. TSM have heavy engage threat with Vi and Kalista/Kennen, but they're dependent on that first volley achieving something, because AP Cho'Gath isn't very good in drawn out engagements.

Things start well for C9, Meteos getting a lead on Santorin thanks to the harass delivered by LemonNation. TSM regain it all back and then some when Bjergsen goes aggressive on Hai on dinging 6. He doesn't kill him, but Hai sticks around long enough for Dyrus to arrive and secure first blood, and Lemon walks in to die afterward, wasting his flash in the process. TSM group up and try to force down Hai's tower, and although C9 commit their Teleport and Zed ult, they can't stop it, and end up trading 2-1 in kills, leaving them 3k gold ahead.

TSM are much stronger at this point - C9 are trying to get farm on Zed and Vladimir, but Hai ends up getting ganked and losing another tower in the bot lane thanks to the relentless pressure and vision control from TSM. It looks like they're going to lose back to back games having failed to make it out of laning phase.

Just after 21 minutes, Bjergsen finds Hai with a Rupture near his top inner tower and instagibs him with his combo and Flash/Ignite. TSM try to turn this in to a baron, but get engaged on by Meteos and Lemon and are very lucky not to get the aced. As it is, Dyrus manages to kill off Sneaky, but C9's morale should be boosted by that fight - after all, if TSM don't put this away soon, Zed and Vladimir will become dangerous.

TSM do, however, put it away. They bait baron until LemonNation is forced to walk in and they go on him. C9 make a decent go of the fight until Hai commits on to WildTurtle, which Bjergsen had been saving his Feast for. TSM cruise home from here.

0.5 - Laning phase
0.5 - Individual play (Bjergsen)

TSM take the lead in their rivalry with C9 for LCS titles - this is their third to C9's two, and their second in a row. And frankly, TSM are pulling away from them.

 

[Twookie]

shiiiet that's a lot of confetti, must be hell to clean up '_l_'

 

[TharpDaddy]

shiiiet that's a lot of confetti, must be hell to clean up '_l_'

As someone who has worked at an event venue... yes, yes it is.

 

[Subtle]

With whom? There's really no one in NA that has stood up to Bjerg all split. At least Hai has chemistry with the rest of C9. Replace Hai and they lose their shot caller and have to start from scratch with going through all the growing pains again. If they are going to replace him they might as well wait for after Worlds because they are still good enough to get to Worlds. Replace him now and they might not even make it with him they are still #2 to #3 in NA.

I haven't kept up with scene overseas but I feel like an import would be C9s best shot. They've pretty much plateaued with Hai. I think a shake up is exactly what they need.

 

[Imperfected]

I think C9 could compete for 1st in NA with just coaching staff improvements, but admittedly Hai and Lemonnation are both sort of on a clock in terms of how much longer they can hang with ever-increasing competition in their respective roles. I don't think they've even gotten worse, really, it's just that NA started phasing out old, broken players in those positions for new hotness, and as a result those players went from 1st/2nd in position to near the bottom of the table.

Like, Lemon's still on close parity with Xpecial, but now Aphromoo and Lustboy are there making the both of them look worse. Hai's still miles better than Reggie or Scarra ever were, he just can't compete with Bjergsen.

 

[Edwardo]

 

[TharpDaddy]

I haven't kept up with scene overseas but I feel like an import would be C9s best shot. They've pretty much plateaued with Hai. I think a shake up is exactly what they need.

Hell they could even take a gamble on some challenger players. I've seen a big discussion on twitter recently (headed by challenger players and coaching staff like NME's coaches and analysts) about how NA's lack of challenger talent is exaggerated and that organizations just aren't willing to take risks. Give Yusui a shot, give Arcsecond a shot, or even an unknown player. C9's goal may be Worlds but it'd be a waste of a slot for them to go at the moment, we know how strong they are and what their cap is. Why not take some risks and potentially build a much stronger team? Sneaky wasn't some solo-queue god, neither was Bjergsen. They improved to being really good, what's to say there aren't some players in challenger with a lot of potential?

I think C9 could compete for 1st in NA with just coaching staff improvements, but admittedly Hai and Lemonnation are both sort of on a clock in terms of how much longer they can hang with ever-increasing competition in their respective roles. I don't think they've even gotten worse, really, it's just that NA started phasing out old, broken players in those positions for new hotness, and as a result those players went from 1st/2nd in position to near the bottom of the table.

Like, Lemon's still on close parity with Xpecial, but now Aphromoo and Lustboy are there making the both of them look worse. Hai's still miles better than Reggie or Scarra ever were, he just can't compete with Bjergsen.

I think Lemon is definitely still one of the best in NA, he's incredibly consistent. Of all the spots to look in C9 the bot lane is their shining point at the moment.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Ultimately the excuse for keeping Hai despite some subpar performances is that he was the main shotcaller.

But the shotcalling and overall strategy looked awful at times in this game, and is thus no longer a good reason to keep him if Cloud9 wants to improve.

Yes, they still got 2nd but Liquid probably should've won that series, and younger teams with more upside are going to continue to nip at their heels.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

haha salty Travis

https://twitter.com/SotLTravis/status/589945407616061440

"I am legitimately happy for the guys on TSM, but disappointed for the room full of press who waited today and won't get interviews."

 

[ucdawg12]

Kotetsu, what do the 1.0\.5s mean at the end of your posts?

 

[brian!]

haha salty Travis

https://twitter.com/SotLTravis/status/589945407616061440

"I am legitimately happy for the guys on TSM, but disappointed for the room full of press who waited today and won't get interviews."

 

[TharpDaddy]

Ultimately the excuse for keeping Hai despite some subpar performances is that he was the main shotcaller.

But the shotcalling and overall strategy looked awful at times in this game, and is thus no longer a good reason to keep him if Cloud9 wants to improve.

Yes, they still got 2nd but Liquid probably should've won that series, and younger teams with more upside are going to continue to nip at their heels.

His shotcalling was good and is still decent but they remind me of Reginald TSM. He was considered a great shotcaller but held the team back. They eventually trained their mid to replace him in shotcalling. Meteos takes over for Hai when Hai does poorly, so why not have him take over as main shotcaller if Hai leaves? He's shown he can do it, he also took over when Hai's lung collapsed.

 

[Imperfected]

What C9 needs is a player as devastatingly handsome as Santorin. They're at a serious disadvantage in terms of winning smiles.

 

[Elixist]

i feel like c9 could've been alot more creative. like put hai on ez ad mid and have sneaky play ap kog or something. or have meteos build some dmg, he's so mechanically good give him some damage to kill turtle.


edit: i feel like they were just too meta, when i know they are way more versatile than that.

 

[cHinzo]

Kotetsu, what do the 1.0\.5s mean at the end of your posts?

Nobody knows.

Man, there is really no stopping to the TSM train. At least not in NA.

 

[TharpDaddy]

What C9 needs is a player as devastatingly handsome as Santorin. They're at a serious disadvantage in terms of winning smiles.

But C9 has

i feel like c9 could've been alot more creative. like put hai on ez ad mid and have sneaky play ap kog or something. or have meteos build some dmg, he's so mechanically good give him some damage to kill turtle.

Hai seems to have a very small champion pool. Urgot, Zed and Corki seem to be about it.

 

[Kotetsu534]

Kotetsu, what do the 1.0\.5s mean at the end of your posts?

I'm assigning numbers (1 for each game) for reasons why I think the game was won. I wanted to get an idea of what the most likely reasons for winning/losing competitive games are, and so I did it throughout the NA and EU LCS playoffs. My count shows that most competitive games are decided in laning phase, and of those that aren't, winning teamfights is the most common reason to win. Rotations and objectives are still important, but at least in the current meta, aren't usually the deciding factor (IMO). This may well change if the tanks go away and we get assassins mid again.

 

[Twookie]

But C9 has

rofl, that interview is just fucking hilarious

 

[zkylon]

tsm played really well, c9 looked underprepared?

specially hai and balls, like usual nowadays

 

[bokn]

Maybe its because they know they're going to get replaced by zorozero and incarnation soon anyway

 

[brian!]

i think zorozero already signed somewhere
oh nm it was a rumor

 

[zkylon]

my brother picked up on this lol, loco with the murder strats

 

[Prototype Viktor]

i dunno after that 2nd game C9 did what all the teams seem to be doing, getting hella demoralized by TSM and it sets in stone by game 3

 

[bokn]

Do teams try to do to berg what teams try to do to faker? (camp him mercilessly)

 

[ucdawg12]

I'm assigning numbers (1 for each game) for reasons why I think the game was won. I wanted to get an idea of what the most likely reasons for winning/losing competitive games are, and so I did it throughout the NA and EU LCS playoffs. My count shows that most competitive games are decided in laning phase, and of those that aren't, winning teamfights is the most common reason to win. Rotations and objectives are still important, but at least in the current meta, aren't usually the deciding factor (IMO). This may well change if the tanks go away and we get assassins mid again.

That's very interesting. I'll have to start looking at that myself.

 

[Elixist]

my brother picked up on this lol, loco with the murder strats

hahh nice catch bro! i need to watch more of that show, what ive seen ive liked.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Do teams try to do to berg what teams try to do to faker? (camp him mercilessly)

To what end? TSM is all about you do anything and the rest are there to carry

 

[zkylon]

Do teams try to do to berg what teams try to do to faker? (camp him mercilessly)

hmm i dunno, i feel like na mids aren't that strong to maybe punish bjerg enough if he gets camped, and santorin and lustboy and dyrus are really good at not letting that happen

i imagine edg or skt/ge or even ahq/fnc to be more capable of forcing him into bad situations?

i dunno, it's true what you say that teams kind of not even bother targeting bjergsen

hahh nice catch bro! i need to watch more of that show, what ive seen ive liked.

yeah not my picture (it's from reddit) but my brother was like "loco has a deathnote" and i say "no way" and we went back and forth and now i owe him a chocolate bar

 

[bokn]

How did you guys feel about seeing two people making out on stream

 

[Imperfected]

How did you guys feel about seeing two people making out on stream

Very kappa.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

How did you guys feel about seeing two people making out on stream

didnt' see it, but i did see the guy imitating him licking one of the casters head

 

[Leezard]

So, C9 Incarnati0n next?

 

[garath]

I've been way behind. Mostly just catching up on VoDs last few weeks. I finally finished watching the NA playoffs and finals today.

Things I've learned:

- c9 needs better coaching and need to learn to play from behind better. They can't get by expecting to play from a lead all the time or expecting their solo lanes to win all the time. Balls was behind every single game and it hurt them. In comparison, Dyrus gets picked on every single game with little help from his team and still comes out ahead. Big difference.
- Quas is a monster. He is easily the shining star on TL. I wasn't so sure of him when he was originally poached for Curse but he really shined in the TL games. Even when they were losing I was amazed as the way he played.
- TL as a whole is so close to breaking out. They need a little more consistency and a little more synergy with Fenix (who also looks really good and will probably dominate next split)
- Lustboy is simply amazing. He is lightyears above every other NA support. Aphro takes second place but Lustboy takes the crown by a mile. Aphro might be able to make similar flashy plays but Lustboy manages to not just make the flashy plays but his total game knowledge let him control the game in a lot more subtle ways.
- Santorin is like Meteos 2.0, the evolved version. It's not surprising to me that TSM sought out a jungler with a playstyle similar to Meteos. He was the best NA LCS jungler for a long time. Santorin is like the younger, up and coming star set out to send the older player to the pasture. He's a great fit in the current TSM team and a big reason they are doing so well.

Really nice NA split. The region as a whole is looking better and better. It will be nice if we do end up with more than 1-2 teams that could possibly compete in a worlds environment.

I think we're also seeing the importance of coaching come to light and TSM and TL probably have the best of those.

 

[Newt]

This split is the worst. All the wrong teams doing well :/.

 

[Bacon]

I've been way behind. Mostly just catching up on VoDs last few weeks. I finally finished watching the NA playoffs and finals today.

Things I've learned:

-snip-

Really nice writeup dude, I agree with a lot of what you said. Especially your thoughts on Santorin. He seems like the real deal, he was able to adapt well to what the team needed all split long, but especially toward the second half. He was definitely a really nice pickup by TSM.

Aaand I just looked him up on leaguepedia. He's only 17 years old??? Christ I feel old and I'm only 23.

 

[Kotetsu534]

- Quas is a monster.
- Lustboy is simply amazing.

Very much agree with these two statements. It's not a coincidence that every time top laner stats are brought up (e.g. cs @ 10, cs differential at 10, KDA) he's at, or very close to, the top, despite having a massive champion pool. I doubt if TL will ever overcome their problems with playoff pressure though - IWD has always struggled in those situations and he's their main shotcaller. I hope they can, or get so good they just crush their opponents, even in the late playoff rounds. That teams' efforts deserve a Worlds appearance.

Lustboy is a genuinely elite Korean support. I actually think he's been the clear MVP of the split in NA and that a lot of TSM's lane swap success is down to his anticipation and reading of the game. He virtually never makes a costly error. Even when target banned by C9 he brought out Kennen and had a huge impact on the game. I'd take Xpecial over Aphromoo for what it's worth, because he performs in playoffs and it's the knockout matches that count in LoL.

 

[zkylon]

How did you guys feel about seeing two people making out on stream

doesn't work if it's not deficio and quickshot if u ask me

 

[bokn]

The redbull write up on Fnatics miraculous transformation is pretty good if you're ever curious about being an esports manager or you love Fnatic.

Find it here:
http://www.redbull.com/en/esports/league-of-legends

 

[Prototype Viktor]

TSM always needed someone to sacrifice for the sake of the team, TOO was to sacrifice everything for Regi, Chaos didn't do it for anyone, Xpecial tried to sacrifice to get Chaos to care, and Dyrus always sacrificed (except when he played Singed)

 

[Kotetsu534]

The redbull write up on Fnatics miraculous transformation is pretty good if you're ever curious about being an esports manager or you love Fnatic.

Find it here:
http://www.redbull.com/en/esports/league-of-legends

Love the bit where he talks about trying to explain to an immigration lawyer what he wants help with - "so I want to hire a Korean child to enter an employment contract in our country, but he'll be living and practicing 12 hours a day in another country." - and he/she thinks he's either mad or bad.

Fnatic's 2015 Spring Split story is the best western validation yet for coaching and leadership over raw player skill. Especially when contrasted with the debacle at Elements, the roster of stars. And that Yellowstar is the fucking man - his whole team leaves, but he sticks around, helps rebuild a roster of rookies and leads them to the title.

 

[theprodigy]

So, does anyone even care about the wild card tournament?

 

[Leezard]

So, does anyone even care about the wild card tournament?

I did not know it was a thing right now.

 

[garath]

I did not know it was a thing right now.

Me neither. lol

 

[Makareu]

I am pleasantly surprised by the number of viewers since there has been virtually no advertisement for this event.
Time for Japan to embrace LoL !

 

[Pancakes]

So....this wildcard tournament. Pretty neat.

 

[Kotetsu534]

So this Swiffer guy never gets to play Leblanc again in this tournament. Holy one man carry.

 

[FireSol]

Gambit fired Jordan "Leviathan" Thwaites

http://gambit-gaming.com/news/official-statements/leviathan-is-released-from-gambit

 

[TomShoe]

Someone report Cho for feeding.

 

[brian!]

i heard hai's arm fell off and he couldnt even wave goodbye

 

[idlewild_]

Hm, since no one posted it yet. C9 Hai steps down:

http://cloud9.gg/news/thank-you-hai


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