Support NeoGAF

[Ghost is Bad]

The game played out exactly how I thought it would. Instead of using the laning power of Kalista/Thresh to bully out the Urgot lane and control dragon, they instead send them top for no real explainable reason while Dyrus takes ignite, farms 1 camp then immediately TPs into the laneswap. Wat?

I'm also really cold on how Santorin jungles because he's not good on Gragas. He just does not pressure well enough with that champion and his reads on his opponents are magnificently bad.

Besides that, I thought TSM got totally outdrafted. Kalista is fine, but you need a late game sustained damage threat in the mid lane if you aren't going to build crit and it was glaringly obvious that she was dealing almost no damage to the insanely tanky AHQ lineup past 30 minutes.

 

[Nekofrog]

The "eye test" still means something. Not to mention how they were apparently winning their scrims vs EDG and SKT before this tournament. Obviously winning scrims doesn't mean you're going to win the live games but it means something.

if scrim domination mattered then curse would have been #1

 

[Macattk15]

Well. Least TSM beat Turkey .... cause I expect EDG to stomp them harder than AHQ did.

 

[riskybusinesstomcruise]

if scrim domination mattered then curse would have been #1

I don't think I need to explain what pretty obvious to see. TSM isn't playing like they were in the playoffs or at IEM.

Sure the competition is a lot more stiff but there doesn't even seem to be an attempt to execute their strategies not to mention the team synergy is no where to be seen.

They're just making mistakes irrelevant to the competition which they haven't been making in recent time.

 

[Omnicent]

lol that comm, thats going to be on reddit (boy thats going to be a shit show I can smell from my desk)

 

[Nekofrog]

I don't think I need to explain what pretty obvious to see. TSM isn't playing like they were in the playoffs or at IEM.

Sure the competition is a lot more stiff but there doesn't even seem to be an attempt to execute their strategies not to mention the team synergy is no where to be seen.

They're just making mistakes irrelevant to the competition which they haven't been making in recent time.

you're just making excuses for a team that has been exposed as nowhere near as good as they appeared to be

 

[clemenx]

Btw. I agree with whoever said that Wildturtle sucks. It really speaks bad of NA that the top team is able to have such an irrelevant adc.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Btw. I agree with whoever said that Wildturtle sucks. It really speaks bad of NA that the top team is able to have such an irrelevant adc.

Don't feed the Newt

Spoiler

Yeah Lustboy is wasted on WT

 

[Primethius]

The only team TSM has beat in NA that's worth mentioning is C9. The rest of their performances in NA are irrelevant in the international scene. And even that performance is largely irrelevant when your up against teams whose mid-laners can actually pose a threat to Bjerg.

Not to mention top/bot lanes that make yours look like you walked out of soloq.

 

[Omnicent]

you're just making excuses for a team that has been exposed as nowhere near as good as they appeared to be

The red flag should have been signaled by fans when they beat C9 in spring split.
Oh boy, they beat a declining C9...
I really fucking hope Incarnati0n works out for C9 cause that team was the only chance NA had to not be total shit show on the international stage.
I'm from NA, but TSM are doing about what I expected (minus the FNC game from yesterday).

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Btw. I agree with whoever said that Wildturtle sucks. It really speaks bad of NA that the top team is able to have such an irrelevant adc.

.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

also locodoco needs to be slapped for how shit his pick/bans have been this entire tournament. he keeps putting dyrus on carry tops with 0 jungler support, they keep picking these awful low sustained damage comps vs 4 tank comps and santorin cannot play gragas to save his life.

 

[riskybusinesstomcruise]

you're just making excuses for a team that has been exposed as nowhere near as good as they appeared to be

Very in depth analysis.

 

[Skux]

What a disaster. Santorin with no jungle pressure just watches his lanes get destroyed. Dyrus soloed by Maokai. They picked a scaling comp but that doesn't matter when you get destroyed in the first 15 minutes.

 

[Primethius]

Very in depth analysis.

TSM isn't playing like how they played because they're playing teams who are much better then them. It's actually as simple as that.

 

[riskybusinesstomcruise]

TSM isn't playing like how they played because they're playing teams who are much better then them. It's actually as simple as that.

I think there's a bit more to it.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

wut

they have awful late game scaling. kalista is irrelevant with a 0 crit build late (and turtle has never shown any adaptation to the shiv build that bang/deft pull out when teams get tanky), cho gath can't close fast enough to be relevant and hecarim loses a ton of his damage outside of his homeguard tps. compared that to how tanky the hecarim/urgot/nautilus/rek'sai can get, it was glaringly obvious that they were going to lose unless they snowball early. then they fucked themselves with their retarded laneswaps.

 

[Nekofrog]

Very in depth analysis.

i mean, it doesn't take much text to tell you you're flat out wrong

 

[riskybusinesstomcruise]

i mean, it doesn't take much text to tell you you're flat out wrong

I agree it's easy to look at the results in a completely binary fashion.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

I think there's a bit more to it.

yeah its that tsm shit early game got exposed.

 

[Flare]

I think there's a bit more to it.

There really isn't. The teams the have faced had a much better pick/ban phase and played out their comps much better than whatever the fuck TSM was doing.

All this tournament is showing is how irrelevant it is to be a top team in NA because on a worldwide scale NA is still very much terrible.

No, TSM is not tilting, no they aren't having a bad game. They're playing at their level against better teams and that is all there is to it.

 

[Primethius]

I think there's a bit more to it.

Okay.

TSM plays in NA. Every team in NA except C9 is pretty bad. Any result from TSM vs any team not named C9 is completely irrelevant. Even matches against C9 are pretty irrelevant in the international scheme of things.

Saying something like "oh this is not how TSM plays" or "they usually play so much better" is a load of bullshit most of the time.

TSM simply got outclassed. Of course they are not gonna look like how they do when there winning, that's pretty self-explanatory.

So yes, it is that simple.

TSM is playing at the level TSM always played at. They just simply got outclassed. Dyrus is not a good top laner. Wildturtle is not a good ADC. Santorin can't match the junglers of the other teams. All of these things, which get pretty well hidden because Bjerg carries so often in NA, simply got exposed here.

 

[idlewild_]

I mean, there's definitely something wrong. I missed the interview, but the mentioned it on the analysts desk that the reason that TSM didn't lane swap vs FNC was because the forgot in game and they think they should have. Like, how the fuck do you forget to do something like that? Bad preparation, nerves, bad in game shotcalling, what have you.

That's not an excuse for TSM, good teams don't forget things like that or tilt as hard as they seem to be doing. They're playing very poorly and deserve to be knocked out.

 

[Agkel]

Didnt TSM beat yFW in IEM who then turn out to have a much better spring season than AHQ? Granted AHQ beat them in finals but still yFW ended second in LMS under AHQ. (Dyrus me if wrong)

I'm not saying TSM is ready to take #1 spot internationally, because theyre not, but I think they are far better than some of you are putting them (Most definitely better than C9). Something seemed terribly off this tourney plus pick and ban was pretty awful for TSM.

 

[riskybusinesstomcruise]

There really isn't. The teams the have faced had a much better pick/ban phase and played out their comps much better than whatever the fuck TSM was doing.

All this tournament is showing is how irrelevant it is to be a top team in NA because on a worldwide scale NA is still very much terrible.

No, TSM is not tilting, no they aren't having a bad game. They're playing at their level against better teams and that is all there is to it.

Okay.

TSM plays in NA. Every team in NA except C9 is pretty bad. Any result from TSM vs any team not named C9 is completely irrelevant. Even matches against C9 are pretty irrelevant in the international scheme of things.

Saying something like "oh this is not how TSM plays" or "they usually play so much better" is a load of bullshit most of the time.

TSM simply got outclassed. Of course they are not gonna look like how they do when there winning, that's pretty self-explanatory.

So yes, it is that simple.

TSM is playing at the level TSM always played at. They just simply got outclassed. Dyrus is not a good top laner. Wildturtle is not a good ADC. Santorin can't match the junglers of the other teams. All of these things, which get pretty well hidden because Bjerg carries so often in NA, simply got exposed here.

Alright well your points are clear. Agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[Kotetsu534]

I don't think it helps them at all that this tournament is being held in a meta more favourable to top laners and "smart" junglers than at any point during the last two seasons (and ADs who can play Kalista insanely well). They rely so heavily on Bjergsen and Lustboy that they're always going to be meta dependent against the very best teams.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

TSM isn't playing like how they played because they're playing teams who are much better then them. It's actually as simple as that.

you can't actually say that if they are obviously avoiding how they've played all this year with these terrible 4 games (including the win)

 

[Newt]

Don't feed the Newt

Spoiler

Yeah Lustboy is wasted on WT

.

 

[clemenx]

Lol poor BJK why would EDG tryhard against them.

 

[WesternHeretic]

This tournament basically consist of two trash teams, one average team, one above average team, and two good teams.

 

[TomShoe]

This tournament basically consist of two trash teams, one average team, one above average team, and two good teams.

Don't insult SKT like that.

 

[Primethius]

you can't actually say that if they are obviously avoiding how they've played all this year with these terrible 4 games (including the win)

I can because there play throughout the year was mostly against trash teams. Now, they are playing against mostly great teams.

 

[sleepykyo]

This tournament basically consist of two trash teams, one average team, one above average team, and two good teams.

Which are which? SKT would be one of the good teams, but which are the rest?

edit: Is TSM out even if they win against edg? If so, they should really go out with a bang instead of a whimper like they have all tourney.

 

[Sunnington]

Moreso than which team is the best, it's coming down to which team chokes harder. Doesn't really matter though as long as SKT is vs EDG in the finals and has a good set of games.

 

[Nekofrog]

i didnt know there were tsm fanboys on gaf

this is why i hate tsm, because of people like you

"they didn't play like the usually do" "something is off"

no they're just on an international stage and are being exposed as having an awful ad carry, a top laner who can't play anything outside of megatank wetnoodle fests, and a green jungler who looks at the map and just farms instead of do anything.

the team is a shambles right now

 

[Peachpies]

if they are deciding ties based on head-to-head why do they have a space at the end for tiebreakers?

 

[brian!]

do you guys think reginald is going to take over for bjergsen

 

[Primethius]

do you guys think reginald is going to take over for bjergsen

Totally. Regi Karthus > Bjerg Cho.

 

[Arrage]

True colours are bleeding from the Riot's iron curtain of regional strengths. TSM proves that neither their strategy nor mechanics are relevant worldwide, Fnatic isn't much further ahead.

I am glad all this "regions are getting close" bullshit is debunked.

For someone who is asking for the analysis of TSM: Dyrus is feeding, making bad choices and being completely irrelevant. Santorin is a jungler who cannot read enemies, he can only react and reinforce winning lanes. Bjergsen is a mid laner who decimates Link and Hai, but is average on the worldwide stage. WT who has crap positioning cannot do anything if there isn't a wall of tanks and Bjersen taking all the attention away. WT is also bad in lane. Lustboy is relevant, but the rest of the team is so far behind that his good plays aren't going to impact the game.

Together they don't display any strategy, who knows whether its Loco's fault or the team just cannot handle themselves. Wait, its still coach's fault for keeping a terrible player in the roaster: Dyrus is not a shotcaller or a playmaker, he doesn't lane nor teamfight well.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

do you guys think reginald is going to take over for bjergsen

Yeah then we can get some legendary blue cards

 

[brian!]

if tsm had a house cam still they wouldn't have lost

 

[Agkel]

i didnt know there were tsm fanboys on gaf

this is why i hate tsm, because of people like you

"they didn't play like the usually do" "something is off"

no they're just on an international stage and are being exposed as having an awful ad carry, a top laner who can't play anything outside of megatank wetnoodle fests, and a green jungler who looks at the map and just farms instead of do anything.

the team is a shambles right now

I myself am not a TSM fan, just trying to level the hyperbole been thrown and pointing out that TSM seems to be a better team than they've shown in this tourney by how they played on IEM against yWF and dominant play on NA including over C9. Apparently Dyrus ate your breakfast or something, dont let it get to you breh!

 

[brian!]

did you guys see huni come mid to goomba stomp faker that was pretty sick

 

[Arrage]

did you guys see huni come mid to goomba stomp faker that was pretty sick

Yes I know when you posted it

 

[Omnicent]

EU doing better than NA vs SKT..... do I dare go to reddit after this game?

 

[Ambition]

WOWWWWW

 

[Omnicent]

GUYS is thios happeningsdrtfhgbsdgres

 

[Primethius]

Oh boy.

EU beats NA.

EU is about to beat KR.

Reddit's going to be interesting.

 

[riskybusinesstomcruise]

i didnt know there were tsm fanboys on gaf

this is why i hate tsm, because of people like you

"they didn't play like the usually do" "something is off"

no they're just on an international stage and are being exposed as having an awful ad carry, a top laner who can't play anything outside of megatank wetnoodle fests, and a green jungler who looks at the map and just farms instead of do anything.

the team is a shambles right now

I don't know what you're getting upset about. You're the only one saying anything inflammatory.

Its really easy for you to be dismissive of someone once they identify as a TSM fan because of the large casual fan base.

How about taking things on a case by case basis and having a relaxed discussion on NeoGaf. (a forum that is designed for civil discourse)

 

[Omnicent]

Oh boy.

EU beats NA.

EU is about to beat KR.

Reddit's going to be interesting.

pls god no, reddit is a shit show enough already