Wolf Akela
Member
This Rengar LMAO
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League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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Ghost is Bad
Banned
Terbinator
Member
Is Thunderlord really that necessary?
Ghost is Bad
Banned
yes
Wolf Akela
Member
Really, really good on a lot of champs. Lux can just spell->auto. I think Corki only needs to E.
Mostmanlyman
Member
I dont think he passive is the problem with him, it was more of the exp bonus and ability to 1 shot people with your q. He has a huge weaknesses which is his short range, which forces him to have to walk straight into the other team.
Also just because he is not a top and jungler doesn't make his reworked forced.
The passive is the reason they shoved him into the bot lane in the first place. All of the problems with solo lane Morde center around him being unkillable if he's ahead and useless if he's behind because he's designed around getting survivability by building damage. This is Riot's own analysis!
Right. That's called being a juggernaut.
There's probably a reason why every other champion with a similar play pattern to Mordekaiser is a top/jungler. Trying to force Morde into a duo lane means doing a ton of work to get around that reason, which is what they had to do.
Honestly it's hard for me to imagine looking at Morde's kit and not seeing how forced the design is. He literally has an ability that says "get extra experience if you're in a duo lane!"
PhillipCostigan
Member
not really "forced", more experimentation. If the rework didn't work out, which I don't think it has and I don't think the design team think it has fully, you can be sure they learned a lot from it. What does and doesn't work. There were a lot of new ways of doing things in Morde's rework, even the concept itself of a duo lane juggernaut.
It's better to try and fail than to not try at all, even if it sucks to have failed. You learn a lot from failure when you make products, design champions etc. the team will take that forward and help it improve further designs. As unfun as he want to play against, I'm glad he existed in his very strong state at least.
It's better to try and fail than to not try at all, even if it sucks to have failed. You learn a lot from failure when you make products, design champions etc. the team will take that forward and help it improve further designs. As unfun as he want to play against, I'm glad he existed in his very strong state at least.
biggest problem with morde is that he dropped right before worlds
wouldn't consider it a big deal if his rework didn't pan out any other time but it was the worst possible timing and rito should've just disabled him for worlds
other than that i'm glad they tried him out because i like the idea of not having to play against vayne every game, but i think it was just way too hamfisted to go "this champion is allowed to break the rules". it felt like rito released some early internal testing thing, not a properly developed champion
wouldn't consider it a big deal if his rework didn't pan out any other time but it was the worst possible timing and rito should've just disabled him for worlds
other than that i'm glad they tried him out because i like the idea of not having to play against vayne every game, but i think it was just way too hamfisted to go "this champion is allowed to break the rules". it felt like rito released some early internal testing thing, not a properly developed champion
Mostmanlyman
Member
Yeah i agree with this. I probably enjoy him alot because he was different than what the norm was. It was cool to have a melee tanky juggernaut in the botlane that can do well, rather than a standard adc.
PhillipCostigan
Member
experimentation does come from new champions, but (and this is my opinion, am not a designer, disclaimer etc.) you have the goal of every champion in the game having a healthy, balanceable kit. That doesn't mean some aren't strong or weak from time to time or they fall out of favour with the meta, we're talking about the kits not being toxic to play against when they're good.
People who liked old Mordekaiser wanted him to be good, but he couldn't be good with his kit. So he needs to be reworked. You see an interesting design space he could fit into (juggernauts) that fits him thematically. However he has a broken and outdated kit. You want to preserve most elements of his playstyle that players enjoy, because a character like Mordekaiser is otherwise a blank slate (he doesn't really have a character). So you experiment with the kit to try and find a way that keeps the base mechanics and core fantasy of this immobile, high damage, tanky dude who can oneshot people when he gets to them, but he has no way of getting to them.
I feel like in this case experimentation was the right way to go. His kit doesn't get preserved otherwise, and people are unhappy that their champion has been completely changed.
Morde's kit goes or you experiment in a way that keeps the kit but tries to find a way to make it healthy in some way.
Clearly it hasn't worked this time, but I would never fault them for trying.
i think the good thing about new pooppy is that her new spells still resemble her older ones while feeling modernized at the least. like q is still dmg but it's now dodgeable and can be used for zoning
clearly she's really weak right now but i think her design's great
i haven't played morde or anything but it sounds like they maybe stuck too close to his original design. he feels kinda rushed tbh
clearly she's really weak right now but i think her design's great
i haven't played morde or anything but it sounds like they maybe stuck too close to his original design. he feels kinda rushed tbh
Ghost is Bad
Banned
the problem with morde bot was that if ur gonna put a melee champ with no gap closers there u have to make him super op otherwise hes worthless
Ghost is Bad
Banned
they did that before the rework you fkn idiot
Orochinagis
Member
this is a dam good skin
Whats that skin supposed to be
Ghost is Bad
Banned
new lulu skin
Hm, normally I dont ever do this- but my last ranked match as Jungler Vi I asked which lane needed help (I even harassed before L6). I expected to get spammed but each time I only got 1 request from each lane
Still sad that enemy Nidalee jungler put up better KDA numbers then myself AND crazy CS score. Is jungler supposed to kill lots of creeps? I only average around 60-70 myself. I guess nidalle was trying to safeguard lanes. myself, I just stroll through for a gank on my way to the next farm
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2043952226/36583
Still sad that enemy Nidalee jungler put up better KDA numbers then myself AND crazy CS score. Is jungler supposed to kill lots of creeps? I only average around 60-70 myself. I guess nidalle was trying to safeguard lanes. myself, I just stroll through for a gank on my way to the next farm
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2043952226/36583
PhillipCostigan
Member
so excited for 129.
not everyday you see a karthus carrying the game. what elo are you in?
lol we are both silver! sweet now we can both aim for Gold. Do you play on the NA servers?
Sweet will add yah tomorrow,and don't worry I am Al chill till the season really starts.yeah I'm on NA. send me a fr @ Ryotian. I'll warn you though I'm not all that good. If I dont get jungle or support role I tend to throw
I might get back on later tonight
Season finale of into the badlands tonight so no games for me
One thing that really pisses me off about Poppy is that her damage completely relies on her hitting the stun on E which is insanely hard to do vs decent players.
Plus her E is so god damn accurate like Vayne Condemn. There's is no leeway which is completely unfair to a melee champ. They should make it like Bard Q. Stun goes off in the weirdest angles but it makes sense in a way.
Your damage gets cut by so much if you can't land the stun, it's ridiculous.
I mean why does her E even exist in a remade, modern kit? You literally have to depend on the enemy to play stupidly to use it effectively. You can't make a flashy play with it yourself.
Vayne can stealth, tumble and position herself to stun
Bard can stun off minions and champions
Why does Poppy have such a terrible skill along with her ult and passive?
She solely exists as a tank killer in a game but why is a jungler/top laner forced to kill tanks when their role in the game is to cc and/or stick onto carries?
Plus her E is so god damn accurate like Vayne Condemn. There's is no leeway which is completely unfair to a melee champ. They should make it like Bard Q. Stun goes off in the weirdest angles but it makes sense in a way.
Your damage gets cut by so much if you can't land the stun, it's ridiculous.
I mean why does her E even exist in a remade, modern kit? You literally have to depend on the enemy to play stupidly to use it effectively. You can't make a flashy play with it yourself.
Vayne can stealth, tumble and position herself to stun
Bard can stun off minions and champions
Why does Poppy have such a terrible skill along with her ult and passive?
She solely exists as a tank killer in a game but why is a jungler/top laner forced to kill tanks when their role in the game is to cc and/or stick onto carries?
This is a weird understanding of Poppy's kit, I think.
Poppy is a prevent tank. Her kit is designed to make it really hard to get to the ADC standing next to her. W prevents you from dashing to them, E pushes you away from them and stuns you, R really gets rid of you if you're just too persistent. Q and passive let her lane without getting trashed and make it hard to ignore her. Alistar has similar capabilities.
Sure. I don't think the idea of a bot lane juggernaut was necessarily a bad idea. ADC's the only "lane" that really only has one archetype option right now, changing that would be nice. If anything, the problem was that it was a good idea. In my experience, bad releases are much more likely to come from good ideas than bad ideas because bad ideas mostly don't get released. It's much harder to say no to a guy wanting to make just a few changes late in the dev cycle or trying to justify an ability as being good enough to ship when you think he actually has a great concept.
The problem was just about getting it done. I think it's pretty clear what the intended scope was supposed to be here (polish up all the juggernaut kits, including Mordekaiser, and give them clearly defined roles and concepts) and that the actual scope of making a bot lane juggernaut that feels good was just a lot bigger than that. That's pretty much what the postmortem says, even. So no surprise that it ended up kind of messy and feels unfinished.
Wolf Akela
Member
Getting the hang of Irelia. Had a miserable time against Liss, but kept up with CS. By the time I was about Lv7+ I could just go ham and at least force her to b. Kept doing this over and over. Wasnt sure what to build. I opened with the 500g potion to hex to sheen to trinity.
I really wish I had Ignite though. I really need to practice on top laning because its easily my worst role. Whenever I get last pick in ranked all I did was to not lose the lane and Im okay with it. (which is why I liked Nasus)
I really wish I had Ignite though. I really need to practice on top laning because its easily my worst role. Whenever I get last pick in ranked all I did was to not lose the lane and Im okay with it. (which is why I liked Nasus)
Champ designs can get things heated quick
Ghost is Bad
Banned
zkylon got a cait skin
PhillipCostigan
Member
pls
champ #129
you silly people
champ #129
you silly people
Sr Kitsune
Member
(Mandatory)
1+2 = 3
9 / 3 = 3
HL3 confirmed.
1+2 = 3
9 / 3 = 3
HL3 confirmed.
But new Poppy has a really strong laning phase against bruiser champs. It's her teamfighting that sucks.
She does insane amounts of damage to high hp targets with no damage items but you have no way of ever getting that off in teamfights because her Q range is so short and her E is so unreliable and hard to hit.
As a jungler and top laner, she has no use as a 'prevent tank'. And her W is on such a high cooldown, you aren't going to peel anything with it. Champs these days have so many dashes, one denial is not going to do anything.
You can't simply push people away from your carries and back into the enemy team with E or else you die. Poppy, at the moment, is not tanky at all. She melts even with a full tank build.
And there is rarely a time where you actually need to use Poppy's ult unless you just tap it for the brief knock up and aoe damage around you. If a tank is already on a carry, the carry is most likely dead or out of the fight due to the tank's cc and upfront burst anyway.
Knocking a tank off a carry just prevents them from kiting and lifestealing from the tank. This will probably end with the carry being picked off by the enemy mage/assassin. Either that or the team is forced to run away and the enemy collapses on you with mobility.
I'm just saying she has a great role as a bruiser who can melt tanks and be a small nuisance to carries. She just can't do this because half of her kit is just utter crap.
Even with the rework, Poppy still feels like a season 1 champion. But now, she's even weaker since:
1. Missing the E stun will probably cost you around 800+ damage depending on the enemy's stats.
2. Ult is useless since enemies become invulnerable mid air
3. W is on such a high cooldown
4. Passive is absolutely useless outside of laning and it drops anywhere it wants
And the fact you compared a bruiser to a support champ is saying a lot about Poppy's uselessness.
SenorArdilla
Member
Oh boy. More lore.
PhillipCostigan
Member
his lore is awesome.
he has a unique personality. very unique
he has a unique personality. very unique
I mean, why would that be true? Poppy has fine base stats in terms of health, armor and MR, easily comparable to other tanky champions, and she has an armor/MR steroid. To be honest, I kind of don't buy this. Why would Poppy be less tanky than other tanks?
So, like, you explained a bad way to use Poppy's ult, which is to get rid of a tank after they've already done their job. I don't really think that means there is no good way to use Poppy's ult. Maybe you should be ulting that assassin, or their juggernaut, or whatever, instead, and then engaging.
Right, because Poppy isn't a bruiser any more. Poppy is a tank. Pretty clearly! So obviously she isn't great at doing bruiser stuff. Now, admittedly, Poppy is a tank with a huge damage combo strapped to her for what I guess are sentimental reasons, but it doesn't change what her actual job is.
she has the lowest winrate out of any toplaner or jungler in the game, she clearly needs a lot of buffs
not sure if we can discuss her all that much when she's in such a poor balance state
but she's changed roles for sure and talking about her having low dmg or not being tanky enough is probably a bad idea since her numbers are clearly bad right now. she's gonna get numbers buffs for sure and we'll see then.
i think the concept of wardens (defensive supporty tanky champions, like a defensive version of sion) is interesting, but poppy kind of lacks scaling in any "warden-like" way to feel like she's gonna be any good. she doesn't have any abilities like braum shield that prevent her teammates from taking dmg and she doesn't have the dmg or cc to be a thing you just can't ignore like mundo or alistar or whatever
she's weird for sure
not sure if we can discuss her all that much when she's in such a poor balance state
but she's changed roles for sure and talking about her having low dmg or not being tanky enough is probably a bad idea since her numbers are clearly bad right now. she's gonna get numbers buffs for sure and we'll see then.
i think the concept of wardens (defensive supporty tanky champions, like a defensive version of sion) is interesting, but poppy kind of lacks scaling in any "warden-like" way to feel like she's gonna be any good. she doesn't have any abilities like braum shield that prevent her teammates from taking dmg and she doesn't have the dmg or cc to be a thing you just can't ignore like mundo or alistar or whatever
she's weird for sure
Ghost is Bad
Banned
the problem is everyone thinks poppy is like old poppy who 1v5d teams late game
Ghost is Bad
Banned
the old poppy was a piece of shit lets be real
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