Support NeoGAF

[Black-Wind]

Another string of losses.

I really just don't understand why so many people DON'T ask for help when they need it. It's been the case over and over and over ... I'm bot (practicing my support), we're doing well and in the background you hear so and so died. Ok, that happens. They keep dieing but it get's lost in the "so-and-so killed the enemy! Someone else died!" stuff. Through out this they never say a word and before you know it the top or mid laner is throwing a hurting on us in bot with better items and more levels than us.

Is it pride? Or the feeling you have to carry everything on your own? Why must so many people feed without asking for help? But I guess I know that top lane feeling ... you feel like it's just you and this other guy and that you'll look bad if you need help against ONE other person. But then you push and OH MY, seems that their team mates are willing to help them succeed by jumping you.

 

[Nekofrog]

What would you put the order of role popularity at for ranked?

at my elo?

pre adc rework:

mid
jungle/top
support
adc

post adc rework:
mid (commonly with an adc in it)
adc
support
jungle/top(commonly with an adc in it)

literally nobody wants to play top anymore unless they can play fiora or graves/quinn.

 

[Mostmanlyman]

at my elo?

pre adc rework:

mid
jungle/top
support
adc

post adc rework:
mid (commonly with an adc in it)
adc
support
jungle/top(commonly with an adc in it)

literally nobody wants to play top anymore unless they can play fiora or graves/quinn.

What adcs do you play mid?

 

[Ghost is Bad]

corki

 

[Nekofrog]

just because some of you probably think i'm joking about adc in every lane:

this was the last game of the night for me and rex

edit: also for those saying supports can't carry and just sit and stare at their ADC

look at those braum stats. that braum was legit hard carrying his team.

 

[Orochinagis]

Yesterday I saw two Grave players using him as Jungler

 

[zkylon]

idk, last time i ranked was pre-adc rework and i barely got mid contested, mostly ppl asking for jungle and bot lane

Yesterday I saw two Grave players using him as Jungler

graves is #1 winrate jungle and adc in plat+

he's probably pretty high as top lane too

 

[Nekofrog]

the only reason i solidly beat that graves in lane was due to me taking an exhaust and his poor itemization

he delayed his steraks too long and couldn't deal with a quinn with exhaust/steraks

 

[Mostmanlyman]

just because some of you probably think i'm joking about adc in every lane:

this was the last game of the night for me and rex

edit: also for those saying supports can't carry and just sit and stare at their ADC

look at those braum stats. that braum was legit hard carrying his team.

Lol what ever works.
Sometimes doing the dumbest shit works because people dont know how to play against it. Once i went yas adc and had a full ap support nunu and we crushed lane and won game some how.

 

[Hard]

Braum is so good. Great at erasing the mistakes of your ADC. Get snagged by Jinx chompers? Just W to your carry then E away the damage. So good in teamfights as well. Just peel for the carries and hit everyone with your passive for slows and CC everywhere.

Unffff 80% winrate freelo

orgasmic

What would you put the order of role popularity at for ranked?

Mid > ADC > Top > Jungle > Support in terms of popularity.

Anything else is wrong.

 

[patchday]

Yeah Deadname, he seemed a nice guy then .....boom

Nothing about him ever seemed nice.

yeah he just exuded this aura of unpleasantness

Well I pray I don't end up like that guy. I tried searching for his posts but couldn't find them (well I couldnt find his famous LoL posts)

I just realized in the other gaf communities I talk to them over voice or ingame. But in these forums I only interact with lol gafs on the board. So I nhever really felt a part of this community. never really felt apart of it. So moving on to focus on the other gaf communities. May you all achieve good rank. Maybe I'll post here again in a few weeks. Been posting on gaf for 6 straight yrs w/o any incident. Gonna keep it that way!

Good luck with season 6!!

 

[ShemhazaiX]

Another string of losses.

I really just don't understand why so many people DON'T ask for help when they need it. It's been the case over and over and over ... I'm bot (practicing my support), we're doing well and in the background you hear so and so died. Ok, that happens. They keep dieing but it get's lost in the "so-and-so killed the enemy! Someone else died!" stuff. Through out this they never say a word and before you know it the top or mid laner is throwing a hurting on us in bot with better items and more levels than us.

Is it pride? Or the feeling you have to carry everything on your own? Why must so many people feed without asking for help? But I guess I know that top lane feeling ... you feel like it's just you and this other guy and that you'll look bad if you need help against ONE other person. But then you push and OH MY, seems that their team mates are willing to help them succeed by jumping you.

Well, at the end of the day, it could be argued that people with good game awareness will see that they're struggling and help out without the need for them to ask.

On the other hand, if they've been struggling then it might not even be worth helping them out. It pretty much means babysitting a lane just to put someone on the same field as their opponent, when you could be focusing on putting someone else much further ahead into a snowballing position.

edit: So after playing pretty much only Nautilus and Nasus top, I've decided to diversify my champ pool and it's going horribly. Figured "Hey, I'll try Quinn and Malphite". Malphite games have basically been horrible during the laning phase. Couldn't handle it at all. Though after that I managed to pick up a little bit. Quinn was the polar opposite. Was doing really well in lane and then team fights broke out and suddenly I'm doing squat. Doesn't help that I don't really play ADC in general, so wasn't used to the playstyle at all.
Really don't want to rely on Nautilus too much since I plan on getting plat at least this season and I know that there's one or two match ups I completely suck at (mostly Illaoi and Olaf), but at the same time, I don't really know who else to pick up.

 

[garath]

Well I pray I don't end up like that guy. I tried searching for his posts but couldn't find them (well I couldnt find his famous LoL posts)

I just realized in the other gaf communities I talk to them over voice or ingame. But in these forums I only interact with lol gafs on the board. So I nhever really felt a part of this community. never really felt apart of it. So moving on to focus on the other gaf communities. May you all achieve good rank. Maybe I'll post here again in a few weeks. Been posting on gaf for 6 straight yrs w/o any incident. Gonna keep it that way!

Good luck with season 6!!

You're more than welcome to jump in the NeoGAF channel (NA right?) And from one working stiff with a family to another, I'd be happy to play a few games with you in my small window. I don't play with many gaffers myself either. Used to play with type2 a lot but he isn't around anymore. I play with Achtius a decent bit. Newt and ghost once in a blue moon. Really it's all about the forum

 

[JulianImp]

Well, at the end of the day, it could be argued that people with good game awareness will see that they're struggling and help out without the need for them to ask.

On the other hand, if they've been struggling then it might not even be worth helping them out. It pretty much means babysitting a lane just to put someone on the same field as their opponent, when you could be focusing on putting someone else much further ahead into a snowballing position.

edit: So after playing pretty much only Nautilus and Nasus top, I've decided to diversify my champ pool and it's going horribly. Figured "Hey, I'll try Quinn and Malphite". Malphite games have basically been horrible during the laning phase. Couldn't handle it at all. Though after that I managed to pick up a little bit. Quinn was the polar opposite. Was doing really well in lane and then team fights broke out and suddenly I'm doing squat. Doesn't help that I don't really play ADC in general, so wasn't used to the playstyle at all.
Really don't want to rely on Nautilus too much since I plan on getting plat at least this season and I know that there's one or two match ups I completely suck at (mostly Illaoi and Olaf), but at the same time, I don't really know who else to pick up.

Do you have any tips for playing Naut top?

I've only used him three times there (as I mostly play support), and it'd really help to know some general tips for playing him in a solo lane. Due to my focus on support, I tend to have a reactive playstyle: I rarely initiate, but rather go for a aa>W>aa>E strings when my opponent gets close enough, very rarely scoring over one or two kills during the laning phase. Then, once we get into the midgame I tend to behave just like I would when I play support Naut, trying to land my CC on adcs and asassins so that my team can go to town on them and little else.

 

[patchday]

You're more than welcome to jump in the NeoGAF channel (NA right?) And from one working stiff with a family to another, I'd be happy to play a few games with you in my small window. I don't play with many gaffers myself either. Used to play with type2 a lot but he isn't around anymore. I play with Achtius a decent bit. Newt and ghost once in a blue moon. Really it's all about the forum

Thanks for the offer; I'm Ryotian (NA)

Yeah I'm going to refrain from posting (in this thread) for awhile. Going to try my best to do a voluntary suspension for a bit lol. I'm a firm believer in respecting other members and I feel my behaviour has crossed that line.

Thanks u guys for putting up with me all this time. Dont mean to be such an ungrateful bastard

I'd be Bronze for sure

[edit] Try to post your ingame name or PM it to me. I keep getting friend invites from randoms I've never played with lately?

 

[Newt]

Thanks for the offer; I'm Ryotian (NA)

Yeah I'm going to refrain from posting (in this thread) for awhile. Going to try my best to do a voluntary suspension for a bit lol. I'm a firm believer in respecting other members and I feel my behaviour has crossed that line.

Thanks u guys for putting up with me all this time. Dont mean to be such an ungrateful bastard

I'd be Bronze for sure

[edit] Try to post your ingame name or PM it to me. I keep getting friend invites from randoms I've never played with lately?

You can leave the thread if you want, but I think you have the wrong idea here. No-one feels like they've been disrespected here. Basically you just said something that some players thought were wrong. In response come of the nicer members tried to correct you in a polite way. You didn't agree, so then some of the not-so-nice members (me) corrected you in a less polite way. Anyways, I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. All of us say weird stuff sometimes. Even Deadnames wasn't so bad, he was just a little bit misguided.

If you ever want to actually play with us add me: Lord Newt. I occasionally set up inhouse games with full teams of GAF members, so you're free to join. If you want to join in the comms the mumble server info is in the second post of the thread.

 

[dimb]

[edit] Try to post your ingame name or PM it to me. I keep getting friend invites from randoms I've never played with lately?

Wow. Now you've crossed the line. I'm very jealous.

 

[zkylon]

yea no need to leave over a silly argument, no one's upset or anything

good on u for going "my b" tho

that's truly a support main attitude

 

[garath]

Thanks for the offer; I'm Ryotian (NA)

Yeah I'm going to refrain from posting (in this thread) for awhile. Going to try my best to do a voluntary suspension for a bit lol. I'm a firm believer in respecting other members and I feel my behaviour has crossed that line.

Thanks u guys for putting up with me all this time. Dont mean to be such an ungrateful bastard

I'd be Bronze for sure

[edit] Try to post your ingame name or PM it to me. I keep getting friend invites from randoms I've never played with lately?

Newt already said it but I certainly don't feel offended or upset. So much worse has been said and forgiven in this community, the recent discourse with you is just a tiny ripple.

In general people just do their best to share knowledge. Sometimes in a nice manner, sometimes not. Other times it's just smutty pics of ahri and sona.

I wouldn't sweat it in the slightest. And if you do decide to keep going with support, there are some excellent support players in this community. They're all higher rank than me.

My name is garathk. NeoGAF is the channel name. I set it to autojoin and usually ignore it. I literally log on for a single game most nights. 6:30-7pm est. It's terrible. New job, wife, kids. That hour is my sanity. But I'm always up for playing with people in that hour.

 

[pigeon]

Yeah, you don't have to leave. You got blown up a little bit but you know, just hug the turret and play safe.

My ign is producerofdeath, like add me or whatever.

Edit: man this thread is so aggro we WONT EVEN LET YOU LEAVE WITHOUT ARGUING WITH YOU

 

[Orochinagis]

In case of doubt blame the Jungler, patchday

 

[ShemhazaiX]

Do you have any tips for playing Naut top?

I've only used him three times there (as I mostly play support), and it'd really help to know some general tips for playing him in a solo lane. Due to my focus on support, I tend to have a reactive playstyle: I rarely initiate, but rather go for a aa>W>aa>E strings when my opponent gets close enough, very rarely scoring over one or two kills during the laning phase. Then, once we get into the midgame I tend to behave just like I would when I play support Naut, trying to land my CC on adcs and asassins so that my team can go to town on them and little else.

For runes I take Magic Pen reds and Quints, Armour or MP5 yellows depending on the match up and Scaling Magic Resist Blues. Masteries 0/18/12 for Thunderlords. Skill order: R > E > W > Q.

In lane he's a monster with the right set up. His E is really cheap harass as well as wave clear. Use it whenever you're close to the enemy. If they're not used to the match up they'll run away and get hit by two waves, making proccing Thunderlords really easy. Try to harass with Auto's whenever possible because of the bonus damage (which also makes last hitting minions easy as hell) as well as forcing them to eat a Riptide. Use his shield sparingly because it eats mana.

For Items I start Doran's Ring and then usually either go Randuins / Abyssal Scepter, unless I'm REALLY ahead in which case I buy Haunting Guise. End game items look something like Randuins, Frozen Heart, Abyssal, Spirit Visage (Or Banshee's, it's personal preference) and Lissandry's (unless you're behind in which case just get something tanky I guess).

When it comes to fights, if you've built either Abyssal or Lissandry's, he'll be able to easily assassinate squishy targets using his ult and Riptide, and make it out alive so long as they aren't ridiculously ahead. In the team fight pre-amble before one side initiates, try to catch out either the ADC or a mage with your hook. They'll usually die and turn the fight into a 5v4 in your favour. In teamfights, always ult the carry or their mid laner, who ever is the bigger threat.

The hardest match ups I've found are tanky duelists like Olaf. Nautilus is a pokey lane bully, he doesn't thrive in extended duels. If someone initiates on you, walk away and spam E. If they chase you'll usually come off better than they do. Illaoi is a giant pain in the ass because Naut's slow movespeed and huge model make it really hard to dodge her Q and the Spirit Steal ability. His best match up is against anything squishy. He'll pretty much out damage any top lane DPS. Tryndamere and Gangplank are basically a free lane because they can't out damage the combo of Auto-attack + Riptide + Thunderlords.

I think that's basically it. If you have any more questions just ask though. Obviously this is just how I play him. There's probably people who'll tell me I'm wrong but my win rate with him is probably around 70 - 80%.

 

[zkylon]

Yeah, you don't have to leave. You got blown up a little bit but you know, just hug the turret and play safe.

My ign is producerofdeath, like add me or whatever.

Edit: man this thread is so aggro we WONT EVEN LET YOU LEAVE WITHOUT ARGUING WITH YOU

to quote a great poet

fuk u

 

[Stone Ocean]

Yeah, you don't have to leave. You got blown up a little bit but you know, just hug the turret and play safe.

My ign is producerofdeath, like add me or whatever.

Edit: man this thread is so aggro we WONT EVEN LET YOU LEAVE WITHOUT ARGUING WITH YOU

Arguing over pointless shit is what FAMILIES do.

 

[Peanut Butter]

Has there ever been a heated LoLGAF argument over who is the best waifu?

 

[Newt]

Has there ever been a heated GAF argument over who is the best waifu?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Has there ever been a heated LoLGAF argument over who is the best waifu?

Of course not. The waifu sect knows that the only waifu that matters is the one that is in your heart.

 

[Black-Wind]

Well, at the end of the day, it could be argued that people with good game awareness will see that they're struggling and help out without the need for them to ask.

On the other hand, if they've been struggling then it might not even be worth helping them out. It pretty much means babysitting a lane just to put someone on the same field as their opponent, when you could be focusing on putting someone else much further ahead into a snowballing position.

edit: So after playing pretty much only Nautilus and Nasus top, I've decided to diversify my champ pool and it's going horribly. Figured "Hey, I'll try Quinn and Malphite". Malphite games have basically been horrible during the laning phase. Couldn't handle it at all. Though after that I managed to pick up a little bit. Quinn was the polar opposite. Was doing really well in lane and then team fights broke out and suddenly I'm doing squat. Doesn't help that I don't really play ADC in general, so wasn't used to the playstyle at all.
Really don't want to rely on Nautilus too much since I plan on getting plat at least this season and I know that there's one or two match ups I completely suck at (mostly Illaoi and Olaf), but at the same time, I don't really know who else to pick up.

Maybe that's the case for ranked. Rarely does it seem that the squeaky wheel get the grease in my matches if no one makes it a point to say they're a squeaky wheel. The most I see is "OMG, stop feeding (insert lane)" normally.

And I feel like context is a big part of it. Sure, you can see it as "babysitting a lane" by making it a point to get them back int the game but ... that seems to work a LOT of the time. Having someone constantly turn my enjoyable bot laning phase into a 2v3 or 2v4 gank spank party is frustrating to the max and can really pull all hope for a win outta you. I figured that was a big reason to have a JG ... to help lanes get ahead or get back on track.

Then there's the match up side of things. Like, I once did bot lane as Cait with a Soraka support against ... Diana and Master Yi bottom. There was nothing we could do to them and by level 4 they were tower diving us for kills. In that case I felt it would have been best to swap lanes ... no one paid attention to that. So we were basically tossing our champs into a blender. We lost. but there wasn't much that could have been done other than trying to swap lanes.

And if someone is eating it from ganks then I'm not sure what that says about their skills given that the very nature of the practice is to use overwhelming numbers. Sure, telling them to not push and to stay close to their tower would be good advice but not saying anything and leaving them to the wolves? Might sound good until the now fed enemy champ starts disrupting every other lane.


And as for Quinn you are very much right.
Never faced a Darius before but when I topped against him with Quinn I was able to win trades and hold my own (Until the ganking started). But for team fights? Your best move is to come in AFTER the fight is just about wrapped up and chase down the enemies who are running away. Either that or be in the team fight but position yourself as far away from the action as you can.

 

[Newt]

Of course not. The waifu sect knows that the only waifu that matters is the one that is in your heart.

There was that stupid Zyra vs Nami argument though that took up like 5 pages way back when.

I blame Pankaks.

 

[zkylon]

waifu sect?

what is that?

ours is an alliance

 

[Newt]

The worst.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

no comment.

 

[Edwardo]

More like waifools huhuhuh

 

[zkylon]

mind you

noot ended up using a miss fortune avatar for a while

so all according to keikaku as far as i'm concerned

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Even Deadnames wasn't so bad, he was just a little bit misguided.

uhhh no.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

deadnames was a dumbass who thought he wasnt a dumbass and got mad when people pointed out that "no, you're still a dumbass."

proof: reddit, neogaf, etc.

 

[Black-Wind]

Just won a match with MOTHERFUCKING JANNA!

I tried my best to keep the peace and teamwork from the start. At the select screen I asked everyone to please ping when the enemy is missing and to PLEASE ask for help if they feel they need it. To basically be a team. Apparently 2 of them (Mid and ADC) were matched together in a match before this and had bad blood. The mid felt like no one would ever bother helping him and the ADC was being a downer bitch (wouldn't even help the Poppy JG leash, I had to do it and use a shield on her).

But I wanted this win so I had to make it a big deal when ever anything good happened and try to keep the peace when the ADC (Chocolate 2 guns) gets bitchy about Poppy KSing (according to him. I personally find it hard to know what's going on in anyone's head when they're a stranger online so I never assume someone just has a kill in the bag. Mainly cause I only really know the CDs on Trist and a few supports so I wouldn't know what you can do to finish someone off with any random champ).

Forgot how satisfying it is to play Janna!!! Giving most of their team that good ol 30-45 sec run-around when I'm low health and they think they can catch me? THE BEST!!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Maybe that's the case for ranked. Rarely does it seem that the squeaky wheel get the grease in my matches if no one makes it a point to say they're a squeaky wheel. The most I see is "OMG, stop feeding (insert lane)" normally.

And I feel like context is a big part of it. Sure, you can see it as "babysitting a lane" by making it a point to get them back int the game but ... that seems to work a LOT of the time. Having someone constantly turn my enjoyable bot laning phase into a 2v3 or 2v4 gank spank party is frustrating to the max and can really pull all hope for a win outta you. I figured that was a big reason to have a JG ... to help lanes get ahead or get back on track.

Then there's the match up side of things. Like, I once did bot lane as Cait with a Soraka support against ... Diana and Master Yi bottom. There was nothing we could do to them and by level 4 they were tower diving us for kills. In that case I felt it would have been best to swap lanes ... no one paid attention to that. So we were basically tossing our champs into a blender. We lost. but there wasn't much that could have been done other than trying to swap lanes.

And if someone is eating it from ganks then I'm not sure what that says about their skills given that the very nature of the practice is to use overwhelming numbers. Sure, telling them to not push and to stay close to their tower would be good advice but not saying anything and leaving them to the wolves? Might sound good until the now fed enemy champ starts disrupting every other lane.


And as for Quinn you are very much right.
Never faced a Darius before but when I topped against him with Quinn I was able to win trades and hold my own (Until the ganking started). But for team fights? Your best move is to come in AFTER the fight is just about wrapped up and chase down the enemies who are running away. Either that or be in the team fight but position yourself as far away from the action as you can.

I can't really comment in detail because I can't watch your replays easily (thanks, Riot), but a couple of thoughts anyway:

1.) If you don't feel like you can trade or win trades against a lane opponent, stop trying to press the issue. If Master Yi and Diana keep Q'ing the waves to death that's one thing...but there's no reason for them to Q you to death too. Part of that comes with experience. It's okay to simply let the enemy push your tower and farm under it. Of course that means you'll need to learn how to last-hit under towers so that you get most of them, but some laning phases you simply have to *survive* rather than win outright.

2.) Speaking of experience: Knowing how those champs and their skillshots and abilities work is about 75% of how you can avoid feeding a lane. There's nothing in the kits of Yi or Diana that should allow them to bully you at pre 6 as a Cait + Raka.

3.) Junglers are dynamic in their duties and their ability to save a lane is often times a function of the matchup itself, their champ's skillset and their own confidence in their ability to turn it in your favor. Some junglers really, REALLY need to hit 6 before their ganks can become relevant. Others are really reliant on their teammates dealing the damage if they do engage pre-6 and won't come if his team's ADC is at 50% hp and 20% mana, you know? But yes, if an enemy lane with no escapes is constantly keeping the lane pushed, you would ideally want the jungler to gank for free money. But not everyone is always alert and Junglers also have to deal with getting their own items online while fielding cries from every lane saying the same thing: "where's mah gank?!"

4.) Junglers try their best but ultimately you as a laner need to be reliant on yourself to stay alive; not on a jungler to save you from your fuckups. That means keeping wards up if you're a laner with no escape (or keeping them up even if you have a good escape so that you can quickly call out rotations from your enemy counterpart). It means maintaining creep equilibrium so that you're not silently asking for the enemy jungler to gank you (keeping the enemy pushed under tower for multiple waves are like shining the Bat signal in the sky) or even intentionally letting the lane push closer to your tower to make the enemy a more inviting target for your own jungler. And again, sometimes it means simply being okay with a lane being a "farm lane" (that is a lane where neither party is likely to kill or even harass each other meaningfully). It means understanding the skills of your enemy so that you can anticipate their actions and know what trades you can and can't win so that you can avoid feeding and punish when appropriate.

 

[Newt]

uhhh no.

Lets take a look at his recent posts, shall we.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/41bn6m/i_have_a_player_who_openly_admitted_to_buying_an/

Nvm, you're right.

 

[pigeon]

Flora is a skilless spamming champ that's obviously OP.

Yup, that's DeadNames.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

Lets take a look at his recent posts, shall we.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/41bn6m/i_have_a_player_who_openly_admitted_to_buying_an/

Nvm, you're right.

told u.

 

[Terbinator]

Just won a match with MOTHERFUCKING JANNA!

Well she is pretty strong.

Chocolate 2 guns

told u.

Also try running fervor on Jax. I've seen some high elo streamers (and I do it myself) run it with success.

:lol

 

[Peanut Butter]

"Out of every role I have seen, junglers are by far the worst when it comes to blaming others.

If they walk into an unwarded jungle and get caught 2v1, it's "team?"

If they die to the enemy laner during a gank it's "team?"

If they farm all game and completely fail to apply pressure it's "gg idiot team" "


-Yung DeadNames



ADCs are the worst when it comes to blaming others

 

[Ocho]

more elite attitude. If you were higher rank and got more CS it would mean more

Oh boy #imout

 

[Orochinagis]

Did Kindred got nerfed? I destroyed the enemy team with ease but still I heard she/he have some nerfs in their damage

 

[Nekofrog]

i think we almost went 2 OTs without that gif goddammit newt

 

[Mostmanlyman]

"Out of every role I have seen, junglers are by far the worst when it comes to blaming others.

If they walk into an unwarded jungle and get caught 2v1, it's "team?"

If they die to the enemy laner during a gank it's "team?"

If they farm all game and completely fail to apply pressure it's "gg idiot team" "


-Yung DeadNames



ADCs are the worst when it comes to blaming others

Deadnames truly a nation treasure.

Well adcs usually become the targets of assassins so they get blown up and then they complain.

 

[Hard]

Team?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[zkylon]

Morellonomicon
Total cost reduced to 2400 from 2450 (live value 2550)

YES

YES

REDUCE IT MORE

MOREEEEE

 

[Mostmanlyman]

YES

YES

REDUCE IT MORE

MOREEEEE

Now reduce hourglass and im super happy.