I don't have any problems with Zed, he's a balanced champion.
I want Riot to forcefully inject counterplay mechanics into Malzahar, Annie, Malphite, Pantheon and Anivia.
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League of Legends |OT13| Diamond is Unreachable
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
- Start date
I want Riot to forcefully inject counterplay mechanics into Malzahar, Annie, Malphite, Pantheon and Anivia.
Nope, GA is still GA.
How did Syndra not make this list
Wolf Akela
Member
You're kidding, right? That's not double jungling and you know it. Do you call someone a jungler if they sit in the jungle for 3-5 mins then lane afterward? Do you call someone a jungler if they're forced to take jungle camps (with or without someone else) because of unfavorable lanes (eg melee vs 1v2)? You might as well say Sion is a jungler for suiciding to wolves then going back to lane with XP advantage a season or two ago. You've stretched the definition of jungler into "somebody who takes camps for 5 mins tops".
Laneswaps got boring because that's what happened every game. Nerfing it was good, but not to the point it's no longer an option. Standard lanes are already just as boring. Casters don't have anything interesting to talk about the match in the first 10-15 minutes so they just talk about everything else like team/player histories, the champion itself, or just the matchup in general.
Riot does enforce or strongly encourage 1112. I don't know why you'd think otherwise. Ranked matches 11112 and shows 11112 on the map. Scoreboard sorts by 11112.
SenorArdilla
Member
Does that mean that Flash is going to be on a shorter cooldown?
Probably not. Channel-flash has a 20 second cooldown but that doesn't affect regular Flash.
Stone Ocean
Member
I haven't stretched anything, that's what the strategy is called. At no point did I say that double jungling meant two junglers.
Laneswaps needed to be nerfed to the point that they were no longer an option because thats the only way that standard lanes became viable again. Riot did several incremental nerfs over the years and none of them worked.
Nothing happened in the first 20 minutes in laneswaps either, you'd swap, push for the tower and then do nothing until everyone had items, at least now lane matchups actually mean something beyond mid lane.
i don't like the flash mastery at all, maybe it's replacing a higher keystone that most junglers are gonna want and that makes it a huge sacrifice, but i like that you can ward different spots against different junglers (say elise vs hecarim vs evelynn are all different) and now everyone's basically lee sin and you have to expect them to show up from behind wraiths at any moment
like what's stopping udyr from flashing dragon pit then flashing from wraiths and diving me, how i'm supposed to ward for that
like what's stopping udyr from flashing dragon pit then flashing from wraiths and diving me, how i'm supposed to ward for that
DarkMaigle
Member
No, like I said, laneswaps got boring because they were utterly noninteractive. The two teams would literally not come into contact except in the mid lane for like 15 minutes. People would get like 500-gold advantages from things like not bouncing the wave correctly.
Plenty of games this season have turned on early laning pre-15 minutes. Probably the majority of them! Laneswap meta literally got rid of all of that.
This entire conversation is especially ironic because laneswapping is actually back, because Rift Herald is important enough that bot lane will sometimes swap to top lane after first dragon rather than waiting for 20 minutes, and so there is actually a strategic option to consider where different decisions lead to different outcomes. That's actually strategic diversity! Everybody doing the exact same thing to push down towers for free and get a gold headstart before laning was not strategic diversity.
In pretty much every case you list, Riot added that stuff in the last two years, only after players had already standardized it and in many cases clamored for Riot to automate the process so that others wouldn't have to. They followed the players, they didn't lead them.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
no
no she doesn't
she's gotten like 4 skins the past few years
she can go fuck off, there are more deserving characters
Kotetsu534
Member
Two World Championships ago I counted up the "reason" each and every game was won, to the best of my estimation. The #1 reason, by a clear distance, was winning the early laning phase. Sometimes you'd get games where one player just went off later in the game, or the draft left one team with no way to win (e.g. armor stack vs. triple AD), or it came down to late game teamfighting, but they were only a small plurality. Many times teams would get out to a large gold lead via superior cs-ing and tower pushing, even with very few kills (or even a kill deficit) and never be in any danger of losing, going through pretty straightforward macro moves to close out.
Edit: I really enjoy laneswap tactics when they're off the cuff reactions to situations. Some of the most strategically complex matches in LoL history had lots of them, and they often give lots of chances for players like GorillA, Mata and Aphromoo to show just how far ahead of the play they are and make visionary pickoffs/dives. But when it's just going through rote steps with very little room to "outplay" the other team they are boring as dirt.
The laneswap era was a dark time for competitive League. Very limiting to what kind of champions could be played because you could only pick something that could survive 1v2, and the junglers would just split the map sides and call it a day because they couldn't risk moving to the dominant side of the other team.
Reivaxe
Member
Personally I think each of these champs need a full VGU.
I would flip out if Annie got a WW like remake. Taking a simple, beginner friendly champ and making them have more complexity and counterplay and be more in tune with current champs but STILL staying beginner friendly? I want that shit.
i had the misfortune of drawing kayn on an aram and now the client won't shut up about his missions
how do i make it stop
i think everyone on that list except annie will get a new model, but champions like anivia or malphite or annie don't need urgot style full-on reworks, they mostly have outdated or low counterplay mechanics that can be improved
also most of these champions have a pretty good identity, pantheon needs to have a targon flair but someone like anivia just needs a better model
malzahar i would say is the only one that needs a complete overhaul of his abilities, because i think his kit is worthless and nothing about it is worth keeping. like pantheon is not a very complex champion but there are interesting elements in his passive and his ult and his ability to tank turret shots is really unique. he's also a fairly beloved champion, who's always had pretty stable pickrates and even has fun jokes and ships and other community stuff that someone that malzahar lacks. i think the same can be said about malphite, or anivia, or annie
malzahar is one of the worst designs in the game, he's even worse than pre-rework and no one likes him, so that's why i think he's the only one that's probably gonna have a full vgu or a really big rework
how do i make it stop
full vgu is kinda doubtful
i think everyone on that list except annie will get a new model, but champions like anivia or malphite or annie don't need urgot style full-on reworks, they mostly have outdated or low counterplay mechanics that can be improved
also most of these champions have a pretty good identity, pantheon needs to have a targon flair but someone like anivia just needs a better model
malzahar i would say is the only one that needs a complete overhaul of his abilities, because i think his kit is worthless and nothing about it is worth keeping. like pantheon is not a very complex champion but there are interesting elements in his passive and his ult and his ability to tank turret shots is really unique. he's also a fairly beloved champion, who's always had pretty stable pickrates and even has fun jokes and ships and other community stuff that someone that malzahar lacks. i think the same can be said about malphite, or anivia, or annie
malzahar is one of the worst designs in the game, he's even worse than pre-rework and no one likes him, so that's why i think he's the only one that's probably gonna have a full vgu or a really big rework
btw riot unbanned the ascension assholes: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofle...reversing_those_pacifist_ascension_bans_from/
i wouldn't argue against unbanning them cos whatever who gives a shit, but fuck those guys for all i care
like riot themselves say "it's deeply unhealthy and unfun when players abuse it to stretch a game to absurd lengths in an effort to force opponents to surrender"
the people playing the game that way are griefers, they just found a way to share the blame with riot so they don't get banned
fuck them
i wouldn't argue against unbanning them cos whatever who gives a shit, but fuck those guys for all i care
like riot themselves say "it's deeply unhealthy and unfun when players abuse it to stretch a game to absurd lengths in an effort to force opponents to surrender"
the people playing the game that way are griefers, they just found a way to share the blame with riot so they don't get banned
fuck them
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yup, it was a legit way to play that mode. It wasn't an exploit, it wasn't a glitch, it wasn't abusing a bug.
It's no different from the days of attack speed Alistar to knock down turrets extremely fast. Sure it's not the 'right' way to play, but it is a way to play.
It's no different from the days of attack speed Alistar to knock down turrets extremely fast. Sure it's not the 'right' way to play, but it is a way to play.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
no it's within the rules
Exactly.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
he's a good assassin with good escape and burst. Pretty mobile guy with good chase as well.
nice, he goes in mid?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yes. Rarely he'll go top.
He's a bit more of an experienced assassin because he's melee, and in mid against ranged it can be hard for him. If you know how to trade it's a bit different and he comes out ahead, but it's really a 'wait till level 6' and then go for ganks/kills.
it's an exploit, it just wasn't in the rules
now the rules are changed to address that exploit
if it was a fun strategy they wouldn't change the game mode
BreezyLimbo
Banned
like
if riot made a weapon that cost 30000
that would make it so the game went forever until one team surrendered
with the expectation that nobody would ever get it
then you can't complain that it's an exploit when somebody actually ends up getting it and the game goes until one team surrenders
in ascension you play a certain way and can prolong the game, it's fair and within the rules.
~~~
The fact that Rito is changing the rules meant that it was the rules that were broken; ie using those same rules isn't an exploit. It's playing within the games design.
if riot made a weapon that cost 30000
that would make it so the game went forever until one team surrendered
with the expectation that nobody would ever get it
then you can't complain that it's an exploit when somebody actually ends up getting it and the game goes until one team surrenders
in ascension you play a certain way and can prolong the game, it's fair and within the rules.
~~~
The fact that Rito is changing the rules meant that it was the rules that were broken; ie using those same rules isn't an exploit. It's playing within the games design.
they didn't make a weapon that cost 30000, they overlooked a possible toxic interaction and people willingly abused it in a way that's completely unfun and uninteractive
riot is actually being super kind to these assholes, saying it's riot's fault is a joke, they just missed an exploit
thankfully they'll fix it
riot is actually being super kind to these assholes, saying it's riot's fault is a joke, they just missed an exploit
thankfully they'll fix it
This is idiotic. Riot literally said they didn't intend this to be done, it ruins the game, and they will take it out. That is pretty much the definition of an exploit.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
An analogy, simply for my example.
yes they are changing the rules to prevent that style of play
to call it an exploit is to ignore that the game mode was designed that way. Not an exploit. Designed that way.
Rito just said it's a fine and legit way to play. Just that it's not fun(Sure), but it's not an exploit like you think it is. Just because it's not fun doesn't mean it's an exploit.
yes they are changing the rules to prevent that style of play
to call it an exploit is to ignore that the game mode was designed that way. Not an exploit. Designed that way.
Rito just said it's a fine and legit way to play. Just that it's not fun(Sure), but it's not an exploit like you think it is. Just because it's not fun doesn't mean it's an exploit.
Implemented that way and designed that way are different things
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Semantics. The point is, it was Riots err to to not have a contingency plan for pacifist play, ie Aram always has minions marching mid. Sooner or later they'll push and win. Banning players was akin to Riot going 'Well we messed up with this game mode so we're going to ban you for playing within our design.'
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
This is just going in circles
The only way you're getting out of this is through surrender, buddy.
your analogy doesn't work tho
here's another bad analogy
you leave ur home and don't realize you left the door slightly open. it's not wide open and it's not super noticeable. in fact, it's actually mostly closed unless you force it this one particular way. it would take millions of people looking at it from all different angles to figure out it's actually not closed
now you return home and someone stole all your shit. not only that but they've broken into a lot of people's houses the same exact way
who's fault is it
then again bad analogies are so bad for making a point :>
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I mean shit if my door had a flaw like that, and I knew about it but didn't do anything about it, yeah it's also slightly my fault about it.
Rito themselves said the pacifist strategy is fine for Ascension. It's just that it's not fun. And that's fine. They're changing the design of Ascension to prevent that now.
Rito themselves said the pacifist strategy is fine for Ascension. It's just that it's not fun. And that's fine. They're changing the design of Ascension to prevent that now.
dope, sounds good enough for me to try
also, RE: these omega squad skins. are they going away at some point? kind of want one for Twitch but would rather wait til it's on sale.
Terbinator
Member
Fizz buffs 🙃
Hydrophobic
Member
Nah, the omega squad skins will be sticking around.
Dobkeratops
OT Hard Carry
Thanks for letting us know your LOL porn favs.
He can also jungle, so you'd have a little bit of flex if you end up liking him a lot.
I think Fizz is really fun, and his troll pole is amazingly fun. Like Breezy stated, it's hard at first to learn how to CS in early game against a ranged champ without just getting destroyed, but if you can get through that early laning without completely feeding you'll be fine. =)
The pole gives you some safety and escapes, as does his dash. So you just have to be careful that if you use them offensively you're leaving yourself with nothing if things go south.
It feels SO GOOD to dodge something with the pole, or to make a great hit with your fish (ulti).