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[Leezard]

DBlade sustain wasn't enough, it's one of the reasons ADCs took Warlords in the first place. 3% lifesteal just isn't worth 450 extra health.

And then there's the new Botrk which might be a good rush item on champions that never bought it, making LS into Vamp first back a much better opener, but that remains to be seen.

Well, how much health is it worth? You're getting 300 health with the two extra pots from LS3 instead of dblade + 1 pot, no? Though dblade does give you extra base health as well, which should be counted.

New bork can be a good reason for sure. Ezreal doesn't have any reason to not go LS3 I guess. Probably not Vayne either, who should have a tougher time now with warlord's gone.

Caitlyn, though? She probably doesn't want to rush bork, or even get it at all. I'm guessing she sticks with her dblade.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Well, how much health is it worth? You're getting 300 health with the two extra pots from LS3 instead of dblade + 1 pot, no? Though dblade does give you extra base health as well, which should be counted.

New bork can be a good reason for sure. Ezreal doesn't have any reason to not go LS3 I guess. Probably not Vayne either, who should have a tougher time now with warlord's gone.

Caitlyn, though? She probably doesn't want to rush bork, or even get it at all. I'm guessing she sticks with her dblade.

450 actually. 80 HP ain't much and LS start puts you 350 gold ahead in terms of builds since LS actually becomes something any ADC will buy eventually. With only 3% lifesteal it'll take a couple hundred autos to get that much HP back and you'll be at a disadvantage vs people with LS3.

Cait won't rush a LS item but she should still get more out of a LS3+Fervor start, LS builds into one of 3 items she'll always get anyways.

Plus honestly I don't see a reason to buy BT on any auto attacker ever again. The shield is trash, damage should be pretty evenish or better against high health targets, its cheaper, has a much better build path and you only really lose 5% lifesteal while getting self peel.

 

[Leezard]

So pots give 225 hp each? I could've sworn they gave 150 hp.

What I'm wondering is that if doran's blade is so much worse than LS3, why was it bought at all even before warlord's nerf? 3% lifesteal is the same no matter if you have warlord's or not.

 

[Stone Ocean]

So pots give 225 hp each? I could've sworn they gave 150 hp.

What I'm wondering is that if doran's blade is so much worse than LS3, why was it bought at all even before warlord's nerf?

Oh you were talking about the two extra pots, my bad, ignore that bit.

Dblade was favoured because it synergized with Warlords ie active sustain. If you're sustaining yourself by autos might as well get the extra 3% which would last for a while until you had to sell it. Now? Well you get 3% lifesteal and thats it really, so why not go for safer laning that allows you to transition faster into the midgame? Lethality users dropped DBlade because they went DFT and only really bought lifesteal if Malz was picked so there was no real benefit to it. There's also the fact that ADCs mostly went back to defensive masteries after resolve got nerfed so the 80 HP Dblade gives isn't as appreciatable with everyone running Veteran Scars.

 

[Leezard]

Oh you were talking about the two extra pots, my bad, ignore that bit.

Dblade was favoured because it synergized with Warlords ie active sustain. If you're sustaining yourself by autos might as well get the extra 3% which would last for a while until you had to sell it. Now? Well you get 3% lifesteal and thats it really, so why not go for safer laning that allows you to transition faster into the midgame?

So between two pots and 80 base hp (which is worth more than 80 hp regen that happens once), the difference between is actually 300 hp regen and faster transition into midgame vs 3% lifesteal and 80 base health. 80 health can be very important in an all in, though it's obviously less important against poke in lane.

3% lifesteal will give you the same hp no matter if you have other lifesteal or not. If two extra pots is so much better than 3% lifesteal it still would be before the warlord's change, that's my point. Having more lifesteal makes it more noticable per hit, but it doesn't make 3% lifesteal any better or worse.

I'm not saying LS3 is a bad start, it might very well be the best start for all adcs this patch. I just don't think it's obviously the best.

edit: Regarding your edit I think the lethality LS3 start had more to do with heavy poke lanes and faster first item power spike had more to do with the change rather than going DFT.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Like I said, there's also the mastery changes to consider. It's hard to say if LS3 was better then when people just ran Dangerous Game every game in favor of defensive stuff.

DBlade start is still viable, I just find it really hard to justify it now. Hell, maybe Cull+pot is better now for a similar niche.

 

[Leezard]

Are people (edit: adcs) really using the defensive tree that much? From what I looked at in lolalytics and probuilds the utility tree really seemed to be much more common.

Utility tree should be even more useful with the LS3 start considering you get 3 cookies instead of one.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Well, last I checked - aka a couple weeks ago - it was a rising trend so maybe it just bounced back and I wasn't paying attention.

I'm seeing some people take Greenfather's Gift on ADCs now which is uhh, weird.

 

[zkylon]

i guess we midlaners kind of lucked out in some twisted way since we only really have thunderlords

people run dft on cass and ori and stormraiders on ryze and cass and whatnot, but i've accidentally ran thunderlords on everyone and its pretty much the same, suboptimal but acceptable

it's pretty great we don't have to interact with that system much lol

 

[Stone Ocean]

I just wish I could properly test BoTRK builds on practice mode. Dummies having 10000 HP just makes testing % health stuff completely fucked lol

 

[Calvero]

I just wish I could properly test BoTRK builds on practice mode. Dummies having 10000 HP just makes testing % health stuff completely fucked lol

should be able to equip dummies with the base stats of the character of your choosing and be able to put items on em

 

[zkylon]

I just wish I could properly test BoTRK builds on practice mode. Dummies having 10000 HP just makes testing % health stuff completely fucked lol

yeah i had he same problem

they also have 100 mr so liandrys is impossible to test

should be able to equip dummies with the base stats of the character of your choosing and be able to put items on em

just have a couple buttons for different dummies

like a 400 hp lvl 1 dummy, 1600 hp lvl 11 dummy, 2000 hp lvl 18 dummy etc. with no scaling resistances

and a tanky version that's like 600, 2600, 4000 or something, with scaling resistances. idk the proper numbers cos i don't play tanks

also would be nice to have a minion dummy

you don't need much customization and honestly the tank stuff isn't even needed so much, you just want to know which items are better for killing the other mid and for clearing waves

 

[TheFlow]

fucking promos. we winning hard, and hec decides to go afk on us! cost us the game and everything. so pissed. fuck this game. everytime I am close/in promos I get trolls

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=7flow

for anyone who doesn't believe me.

 

[Talents]

tfw low elo Tahm Kench players.
http://plays.tv/video/58c1790516ae4fa8e2/-

Also why can't you just immediately go out of Tahm's mouth? Why is there a 3 or 4 second window where you just have to sit there and watch yourself die?

 

[TheFlow]

tfw low elo Tahm Kench players.
http://plays.tv/video/58c1790516ae4fa8e2/-

Also why can't you just immediately go out of Tahm's mouth? Why is there a 3 or 4 second window where you just have to sit there and watch yourself die?

wait forreal? I thought you could exit out as soon as he swallows you.

 

[JulianImp]

tfw low elo Tahm Kench players.
http://plays.tv/video/58c1790516ae4fa8e2/-

Also why can't you just immediately go out of Tahm's mouth? Why is there a 3 or 4 second window where you just have to sit there and watch yourself die?

Low elo? More like troll elo, I'd say. I did once get a Tahm in a normal game who would just continously W our team into the enemy, which was even worse in that we were still trying to win. 4v5 can be done, but a Tahm actively helping the enemy team is just too much since he can force his teammates to feed... I really hope the guy got a ban, because he really was the worst troll I ever saw while playing LoL.

But seriously, I wish the eaten player could get out on their own a lot faster or something, both to avoid absurd trolling plays like this one and to also make miscommunication in solo play less annoying for both parties.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Silly Scy, there's no suck things as tanks in League of Legends. There's durable assassins and non durable assassins.

Oddly enough though, Swain is now the number winrate toplaner. I wonder what pushed him over the edge.

I told you guys Swain was the best toplane years ago

I toooold you

 

[TheFlow]

yea swain is crazy. just won a game with him.


also guys I have went from Silver 5 with a 45 percent win rate to Silver 3 promos with a 47.2 win rate. feels good. trying to get back to the 50 percent mark.


also if anyone was curious the new bond of stone mastery is soo fucking good. Tried it on braum. think I healed my teammates close to 6k health in a 36 min game.

it goes so well with braum compared to colossus. just stack health.

 

[Newt]

So LeBlanc is basically Azired out of the game. I have no problem with this.

Now only if they could give Shaco the same treatment.

 

[zkylon]

So LeBlanc is basically Azired out of the game. I have no problem with this.

that's very depressing, that's my favorite champion in the game right now being killed outright

 

[Newt]

that's very depressing, that's my favorite champion in the game right now being killed outright

Well, at least at my elo, she was already dead since she had almost a 100% ban rate.

 

[zkylon]

Well, at least at my elo, she was already dead since she had almost a 100% ban rate.

that's cos u don't play mid

if i hover leblanc in pick intent people in my team won't ban her, so i have a pretty good shot since there's a lot of other broken champions the enemy team has to ban like jayce and khazix and rengar and camille and quinn and graves and shit

 

[Newt]

With the exception of Quinn, if someone is banning those champs over LeBlanc, they're dumb af.

But yeah, Leblac really felt like she had no counterplay. No small half assed mage rework will fix her, they need to give her a full rework. This is honestly the best way they could have handled it, essentially removing her from the game until they work on a fix.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

So LeBlanc is basically Azired out of the game. I have no problem with this.





Now only if they could give Shaco the same treatment.

some of that will be people not used to her yet and maybe haven't adjusted playstyles, it might also be worth maxing another ability now etc.

I would expect that to rise a bit over the next two weeks but it will still be a significant nerf, which was needed.

 

[Newt]

some of that will be people not used to her yet and maybe haven't adjusted playstyles, it might also be worth maxing another ability now etc.

I would expect that to rise a bit over the next two weeks but it will still be a significant nerf, which was needed.

Yeah, I agree it will rise a bit. It was totally needed.

It's still gonna be around the lowest for mid.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Leblanc was ridiculous and not fun to play against. We need more classic mages. Like swain. Caw

 

[Newt]

For once Breezy (who doesn't play the game) is right.

 

[zkylon]

i'll give it to riot that they tried with small nerfs before just removing her from the game

at least they tried

but honestly this kind of makes me wish they stop with the class updates

it's just too half assed, if i have to relearn a champion i've been playing for years, at least riot should put in the effort of making a good balanceable kit

it really frustrates me that they fucked it up this bad, just stop with the class updates, treat every rework like a new champion because it's just not working

 

[Newt]

Mage Class Update

Malzahar - Complete failure
Brand - Success, maybe a bit overtuned.
Vlad - Success, but was a bit overtuned on release
Zyra - Complete failure
Vel'Koz - Complete failure
Cass - Success
Annie - Complete failure, didn't address any issues.
Swain - Neutral, kit barely changed
Ziggs - Massive failure
Syndra - Massive failure
Xerath - Success
Anivia - Failure, didn't really address problems
Veigar - Success, but more work is needed to modernize his kit

Though LeBlanc was part of the assassin update, not the mage update. I guess I could make a post for that too.

 

[zkylon]

you can say similar things about adc update

unless it's a tiny thing like xerath it just doesn't work

 

[Stone Ocean]

you can say similar things about adc update

unless it's a tiny thing like xerath it just doesn't work

As far as champion kits? Nah, most ADC updates were cool and still are - your tears are my bidet, old Graves players -, the failure in that lies in the itemization which got Leblanc'd.

Mage update made the game shittier as a whole. Rylai's, CDR everywhere, the champion kits and so on.

 

[Leezard]

I think the Zyra update was good. She got op due to it and other changes for quite a while.

After the plant AI changes/Q mana cost increase she has been balanced while being more fun than before thanks to her new passive.. That's a success.

 

[killatopak]

2 months of no playing is a nightmare once you do play.

I suck again. Tried out this lethality shenanigans and I got dumpstered instead.

Reverted to my tanky builds and what do you know, I won.

 

[Newt]

With the ADC rework they did a good job with Cait and Corki (though Corki was a bit overtuned). MF rework is overall good too, and she should be a fairly balanced and fun champ after her nerfs.

The Quinn and Graves reworks missed the mark though. Had some good ideas, but not implemented well.

 

[Quonny]

they fucked quinn

they will never be forgiven

 

[Stone Ocean]

Quinn was shit

 

[Newt]

I think the Zyra update was good. She got op due to it and other changes for quite a while.

After the plant AI changes/Q mana cost increase she has been balanced while being more fun than before thanks to her new passive.. That's a success.

I guess now she's in a good state, but she was a nightmare to play against for three patches.

Quinn was shit

You're taking to a Yorick twisted treeline player, only a dominion player can be less reasonable :^).


Honestly though, who the hell thought that the Malz rework would be successful?

 

[Quonny]

you know if you fucks would just try twisted treeline you might realize that it's way better than the shitstorm that is summoners rift

 

[Stone Ocean]

I tried it a couple years back during the year of the horse event

It's shit

 

[TheFlow]

I love how one of my buddies was in promo as an adc main and needed a good support. 2 games later and we both win our promos.

Spoiler

we won both games by a blowout.

this mane has good mechanics for someone who started league last year.

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=sanic21

 

[Quonny]

if only the game changed between two years ago and now

if only

 

[Stone Ocean]

if only the game changed between two years ago and now

if only

I can't think of a single thing they could have changed about the game mode that would have made me like it.

 

[Newt]

I play Treeline, it's basically HoTS.

 

[Quonny]

I play Treeline, it's basically HoTS.

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[zkylon]

yea, they were more inspired with the adc update, but i think interesting reworks like graves' could've been done better had he gotten more time like tristana did or whatever

like mf, quinn, graves, they've been very meta warping and scoring one hit (cait) out of 4 or 5 instead of out of 8 is still a pretty bad record :T

 

[Orochinagis]

Welp. I found weird ADCs are just taking Mid laners tools to their own and still getting killed by tanks anyway

 

[JulianImp]

Gah, bad day today. My connection's been unstable as shit, to the point I was suddenly taken out of the game for about 5s (without the "reconnecting to server" message popping up, even), my HP suddenly dropped to zero and about 3s later I get the "you've been killed" message. Then I've been constantly having hiccups in my ping that made it fluctuate wildly between the usual 40-60 and 300-500, going up to 900ms at one time. The best part is that death by hiccup made my adc begin to flame me for some reason by saying "lol yeah lag, melee vs blitz such a good idea"... and then he kept getting into fights where he was in blitzcrank's melee range repeatedly and died to it. Also, we had a Jax who went 1/4/1 in the early game and was level three when we at bot were already at five for some unexplainable reason.

Second game was made hell by laning Singed against a freaking Mundo even though I managed to get an early kill on him, but mostly since we were stuck with a Nunu jungler that did some things right but ultimately didn't help our team as much as the enemy jungler helped his. The third game was even worse, with my adc being decent but constantly flaming our awful jungler and top laner, top and mid flaming each other, and ultimately the adc flaming even me in post-game chat when I told him I wouldn't report people for just "being bad" (of course he was the only guy I ended up reporting for toxicity).

Guess I'll see how things work out tomorrow or something, but that was too much salt for today... down from 64 to 8LP in three games, so I guess I'll have to get another winning streak going to recoup today's losses.

 

[Siyou]

Gah, bad day today. My connection's been unstable as shit, to the point I was suddenly taken out of the game for about 5s (without the "reconnecting to server" message popping up, even), my HP suddenly dropped to zero and about 3s later I get the "you've been killed" message. Then I've been constantly having hiccups in my ping that made it fluctuate wildly between the usual 40-60 and 300-500, going up to 900ms at one time. The best part is that death by hiccup made my adc begin to flame me for some reason by saying "lol yeah lag, melee vs blitz such a good idea"... and then he kept getting into fights where he was in blitzcrank's melee range repeatedly and died to it. Also, we had a Jax who went 1/4/1 in the early game and was level three when we at bot were already at five for some unexplainable reason.

Second game was made hell by laning Singed against a freaking Mundo even though I managed to get an early kill on him, but mostly since we were stuck with a Nunu jungler that did some things right but ultimately didn't help our team as much as the enemy jungler helped his. The third game was even worse, with my adc being decent but constantly flaming our awful jungler and top laner, top and mid flaming each other, and ultimately the adc flaming even me in post-game chat when I told him I wouldn't report people for just "being bad" (of course he was the only guy I ended up reporting for toxicity).

Guess I'll see how things work out tomorrow or something, but that was too much salt for today... down from 64 to 8LP in three games, so I guess I'll have to get another winning streak going to recoup today's losses.

i had the same thing happen, then the client decided to patch, wonder if there's any relevance to this.

 

[JulianImp]

i had the same thing happen, then the client decided to patch, wonder if there's any relevance to this.

I'm playing on the LAS server, so I don't know if there'd be any correlation or it happened to be just an unfortunate coincidence. Someone on my LoL friend list told me he had a couple games that lagged in odd ways today as well, so here's to hoping whatever's going on gets sorted out fast.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Warlord's Bloodlust
Effect changed from " have 1-50% Lifesteal" to " heal for 1-50% of your total Attack Damage (amplified by Critical Strikes)"

Hey Riot when I was talking about Warlords getting reworked a sixth time I was fucking joking