I think he means hardest to play.
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- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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I was thinking "hard carry" like "hard counter" or "carrying hard".
This thread has too much hardness lately.
His early game is way too weak to jungle without them.
I recently jungled him on my smurf account. Granted I had a few mastery points (~20), but he was still pretty safe after I got a leash. You either have to sacrifice health potions for W or jungle time.
I was only using him in the example because he's fast - not safe.
Maybe he felt faster than he actually was. The other team didn't have any junglers so I had no point of reference.
I haven't played him yet but I think Draven's weakness will be positioning in team fights. Being forced to move to certain spots in the middle of a team fight to catch your spinning blades, possibly setting yourself up in a bad position, or lose out on DPS seems pretty hard.
I realize that the blade does land depending on if you're running forward or running backwards, bur you're still, in a way, being forced to move to certain spots that may not always be the best position to be in.
I realize that the blade does land depending on if you're running forward or running backwards, bur you're still, in a way, being forced to move to certain spots that may not always be the best position to be in.
So many bad Draven players on streams. Biggest thing people don't understand is double stacking axes. If you keep last hitting and catching axes you can build up two stacks of his Q and destroy the enemy in lane. Kind of not wanting to see all the bad ones in game.
Ok after going 13/3 in my first game as draven, here is how i interpret his playstyle:
catch Qs and use W in lane to harass and kite damage. If you can't keep this combo up when your jungle ganks, you probably won't secure the kill.
In major team fights, walk back right after you throw your Q out so that the blade bounces to an area outside of the team fight area.
Keep kiting with W and keep the rotation going: auto attack,walk out,catch,autoattack,walk out,catch. This is extremely difficult since it takes a load of micromanaging. What i found and probably very important is that when you get phantomdancer, you can Q, then auto attack and then still have enough time to catch your blade. This is if you know how to cancel your attack animations.
But when it comes to end game and you have IE,PD and LW you don't need to catch Q's unless you're chasing down kills so you can keep using W. If you catch your Qs when you have over 250ad, you cut your damage down by a lot since your auto attacks without catching Q is alot better.
So overall I think catching Q is only essential when you are in early or mid game.
There comes a point where catching your Qs will decrease your dps in team fights by at least a 1/4.
catch Qs and use W in lane to harass and kite damage. If you can't keep this combo up when your jungle ganks, you probably won't secure the kill.
In major team fights, walk back right after you throw your Q out so that the blade bounces to an area outside of the team fight area.
Keep kiting with W and keep the rotation going: auto attack,walk out,catch,autoattack,walk out,catch. This is extremely difficult since it takes a load of micromanaging. What i found and probably very important is that when you get phantomdancer, you can Q, then auto attack and then still have enough time to catch your blade. This is if you know how to cancel your attack animations.
But when it comes to end game and you have IE,PD and LW you don't need to catch Q's unless you're chasing down kills so you can keep using W. If you catch your Qs when you have over 250ad, you cut your damage down by a lot since your auto attacks without catching Q is alot better.
So overall I think catching Q is only essential when you are in early or mid game.
There comes a point where catching your Qs will decrease your dps in team fights by at least a 1/4.
XeroSauce
Member
Oh god, just played a ranked where I was second pick.
First Pick goes AP Tristana, assures me he has this.
I choose Graves along with an Alistar Jungle. They picked Blitz at this point so I wanted someone with a dash.
We get Alistar Jungle, Darius top..and our last guy is afk or something, cause he ain't responding.
"Yo we need a support!"
"He locks in Ashe. "Support ashe"
I facepalmed, I figure I will farm the best I can and let her feed if she does.
Somehow...somehow their Vayne is braindead and focuses Ashe during teamfights in bot, while I wipe her out. And somehow, this AP Trist is beating the crap out of their Akali.
We win eventually and their Blitz goes "Their 3 AD carries vs. our 0" and I lol. 1500 elo get.
First Pick goes AP Tristana, assures me he has this.
I choose Graves along with an Alistar Jungle. They picked Blitz at this point so I wanted someone with a dash.
We get Alistar Jungle, Darius top..and our last guy is afk or something, cause he ain't responding.
"Yo we need a support!"
"He locks in Ashe. "Support ashe"
I facepalmed, I figure I will farm the best I can and let her feed if she does.
Somehow...somehow their Vayne is braindead and focuses Ashe during teamfights in bot, while I wipe her out. And somehow, this AP Trist is beating the crap out of their Akali.
We win eventually and their Blitz goes "Their 3 AD carries vs. our 0" and I lol. 1500 elo get.
Ap trist is pretty viable. Especially against ahri. She's like leblanc at level 6.
I've played with support ashes before. Complete kill lane. Ashe crit and volley at level 1 will take off 1/2 of anyones hp in a second. Lane domination starts there unless they have a soraka support. I've gotten first bloods with ashe and sivir combos at bot in the first few seconds of seeing the opponents.
I've seen ashe support in a couple of high elo streams
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Would a support Ashe go with CDR to spam Volley/ult/hawkshot?
Yup, played him on PBE, I personally wouldn't say hard, but compared to a lot of other AD's, he does require more skill and literally scales with skill.
XeroSauce
Member
Yea, she was good at getting Volelys between minions, and constantly getting a slow on the carry while I whaled on her.
Or have a 24 level cap so when you get ahead you stay ahead.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Few things are better than deciding to play a troll match, picking a stupid, unorthodox strategy, doing terrible all game, and then winning anyway. What an amazing game. We had no right to win. Hahaha
SouthernDragon
Member
SouthernDragon
Member
Yi and Darius must have felt like Spartans.
They were clearly fed lol. All they did was farm kills no doubt.
FutureZombie
Banned
Tired of these new macho champs. Let's get some more Yordles. We still need a melee AD Yordle.
Poppy is close enough.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
His laser is still bugged like crazy though. Will sometimes just stay at one point and not move at all and other times it will move through enemies and do 0 damage. It's absolutely infuriating.
This is one of the big things that makes me scared to play him.
I finally tried Draven, for a bot game. Sooo much micromanagement. I managed to get double blades a few times, and running away immediately after attacking seems to be the most reliable way to predict where it's going to land. Still, it's practically a brain drain to play. XD
Having played Darius extensively as him and against him I can attest to this. In fact I actually do stop using the ult sometimes if it's a fight I think/know the team can win without me using it. One recent game I played was a Darius mirror top and my opponent got the edge on me because his Jungler was able to secure him two kills early game on me. Bought some GP5 items, let him take first tower and went to assist the other lanes. However when we started to end the laning phase he would literally KS everything he could so by the end of the game he was the only person on his team to have any kills so we just focused him and the rest of the team had no firepower afterwards.
SephirothRK
Member
Why can't I dodge Nidalee's spear? 
fluffydelusions
Member
So what's a good champion to get for 2196 influence points. I'm a newb and currently using tristan
There are games where you KNOW you should dodge really regret it if you don't.
(Normal blind pick btw) Champ select I picked Cassio while the other guys were loading. Then someone picked Fizz and called mid. Then someone picked Galio and called mid. I laughed and switched to MF thinking I'd go bot then someone picked Ashe and called bot. All the while the two mids were arguing, both claiming that they couldn't play any other lane but mid. Since there was already an Udyr jungle I picked Akali thinking I'd go bot with Ashe and make it a kill lane. I should have dodged.
Opponent was Ashe Leona and it was a pretty good Leona. Our Ashe was getting way too aggressive and kept getting stunned by Leona. Our jungle never once visited bottom, their Hecarim jungle was ganking very well. That champ is so fast All the while Fizz was complaining so hard about going top. Just a miserable game. Sadly enough we still won a few teamfights but there wasn't enough coordination to keep it up.
In reality, I should have sucked it up and played support. I probably would have played Allistar and might have had a chance of disrupting their combo and getting our Ashe fed. Was a poor end to the night after a couple of wins.
Save to 3150 and it'll open up a lot more options. You could also buy Ashe, I think she's in the 1300 range of IP. Good AD carry if you like that role.
(Normal blind pick btw) Champ select I picked Cassio while the other guys were loading. Then someone picked Fizz and called mid. Then someone picked Galio and called mid. I laughed and switched to MF thinking I'd go bot then someone picked Ashe and called bot. All the while the two mids were arguing, both claiming that they couldn't play any other lane but mid. Since there was already an Udyr jungle I picked Akali thinking I'd go bot with Ashe and make it a kill lane. I should have dodged.
Opponent was Ashe Leona and it was a pretty good Leona. Our Ashe was getting way too aggressive and kept getting stunned by Leona. Our jungle never once visited bottom, their Hecarim jungle was ganking very well. That champ is so fast
All the while Fizz was complaining so hard about going top. Just a miserable game. Sadly enough we still won a few teamfights but there wasn't enough coordination to keep it up. In reality, I should have sucked it up and played support. I probably would have played Allistar and might have had a chance of disrupting their combo and getting our Ashe fed. Was a poor end to the night after a couple of wins.
Save to 3150 and it'll open up a lot more options. You could also buy Ashe, I think she's in the 1300 range of IP. Good AD carry if you like that role.
XeroSauce
Member
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoiRZhOpZC0DdC05SmZuZUxKM0NhZElTMjJTMTd2UVE#gid=0
i use it when i play top.
not 100% correct though but it make sense.
fluffydelusions
Member
Ranged mostly
XeroSauce
Member
Teemo is a fun pick but he isn't inherently good and he's more of a counter-pick, so I'd wait until he is free to try him out and buy him if you'd like.
Honesty Tristana and Alistar, plus the free week ranged champs should be able to tide you over. I'd say wait until 3150 IP range, a great selection there.
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