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League of Legends |OT3| Lizards are red, golems are blue. Give a leash or no gank 4 u
- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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Dont really remember what happened on that game haha
funny part is that your name is blocked on the video lol
Shells > Philos
Watching this video again I noticed something looked familiar. It's my screenshot they used for the video. Must have found it on imgur or something
BAD GAF
ps smurfs ruin the game
funny part is that your name is blocked on the video lol
I'm glad no one SS'd when I bought two Philos and two Shureliyas.
Bronze and proud.
Shells > Philos
NemesisPrime
Banned
TBH you are a bit expected to ward your bottom side of the map, not only your lane. When I can, I always ward the bottom bush in middle lane and the bush at their blue and maybe the bush at our red depending on who is jungling and how we are doing.
As support, there are times when you an leave your adc to do some warding (usually just after your lane makes a kill).
Ofc mid to late game..... ward EVERYTHING.
In case anyone is interested, TheRainMan is starting a game playing Zed jungle right now.
http://www.own3d.tv/TheRainMan
edit: Redemption. TRM just did the EXACT same stupid lvl2 tower dive I did jungling. He also fed top 2 kills. I'm not the only one
http://www.own3d.tv/TheRainMan
edit: Redemption. TRM just did the EXACT same stupid lvl2 tower dive I did jungling. He also fed top 2 kills. I'm not the only one
PhillipCostigan
Member
I enjoyed the couple of games I played of Zed on the PBE, but I don't think I have the dexterity to play someone that involved. I dunno, maybe I'm selling myself a bit short, but I prefer auto attackers. I'll try him during the free week before I buy him.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Also, the run of awesome Draven play has come to an end. Mainly because I was in a 1 v 2 lane against a Sivir and Leona because of an afk support. In a ranked game.
It saddened me greatly.
It saddened me greatly.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Tiamat changes...
Dat buff. Knew they'd change it to a unique passive, but the range increase will be massively helpful, as will the active. Also, dat upgrade. Awesome.
Can't wait to start playing Tiamat Fiora again (albeit one Tiamat this time)
EDIT: derp, totally missed the post on the last page. Sorry guys. Wall of text removed.
Dat buff. Knew they'd change it to a unique passive, but the range increase will be massively helpful, as will the active. Also, dat upgrade. Awesome.
Can't wait to start playing Tiamat Fiora again (albeit one Tiamat this time)
EDIT: derp, totally missed the post on the last page. Sorry guys. Wall of text removed.
Yeah, I did notice his model looks a little.... fat. I guess that's the best word. He's big and lumbers around.
I'm torn on buying him or not. I only have around 4k ip so it's rp or nothing. I do like the thought of a more challenging champion that may be a little UP without good play.
He seems squishy as hell too. Must not have much in the way of base defensive stats.
Defensively, he's not that bad really. 530 HP/21 Armor at Level 1, 1975 HP/80.5 Armor at Level 18. To be fair, a lot of tanky characters have weird stats (J4 has lower Armor than most AP Mids, for instance, with 68 base Armor at 18 while Katarina has 86.75 Armor at 18) so this isn't really a fair value to check. It's more that his kit doesn't really go well with forgoing AD for tanky stats.
Still, I want to try a BT GA Frozen Mallet build on him.
Edit: Season 3 Tiamat/Hydra might be neat on him though.
Still, I want to try a BT GA Frozen Mallet build on him.
Edit: Season 3 Tiamat/Hydra might be neat on him though.
Schmattakopf
Member
They just had to choose a shot where I was 2/5.
ElectraStar
Junior Member
Dat Annie!
SouthernDragon
Member
SouthernDragon
Member
When we start playing again we better do the push comp. :<
Yeah!!!!
if you want unfinished character that is kinda fun buy him.
his jungle is not bad too, dont need wriggles and very good clear mid/late game.
Well, a few of us already do it but ... it requires a pretty specific comp and I don't think every single person we can pull in for a game can do it. At least, not without some practice. It is a gamble strategy, after all. We've held the games pretty well where we did use it but we still keep giving up free farm for a few minutes here and there that could actually cost us the advantage.
Edit: Though, a day later and thinking it over, Elise works rather well for the strat in general. Rappel denies a low level three man dive, or at least lets me convert a kill out of a dive, and she can farm "okay" under turret (not Irelia/Olaf levels but low CD nuke + low CD Execute helps). The Vayne/Taric lane swap game on us was a terrible top experience not due to it being 2v1 but due to it being a 2v1 mid lane freeze. Why you go Vayne/Taric and lane swap and freeze the lane is beyond me though. 1v1 against basically any top laner Elise will win so she'll solo push after the lanes rotate when the tower falls, assuming no jungler pressure, or just deny the laner even more. Her early-to-mid game is her best strength, too, so it works out.
Plus, it lets me play more Elise.
lazorexplosion
Member
Woah a platinum Draven.
He's 0/7/5 by the end of the laning phase, cost us baron by pushing top the whole time we're trying to baron ignoring the rest of the team, walking up to a lane TF is split pushing and trying to push it too and so forth.
Uhhh. Borders. I don't even know.
He's 0/7/5 by the end of the laning phase, cost us baron by pushing top the whole time we're trying to baron ignoring the rest of the team, walking up to a lane TF is split pushing and trying to push it too and so forth.
Uhhh. Borders. I don't even know.
I dunno I mean I didn't think we were advocating a push strat that game, just playing the swap they put on us better than they did. I'm pretty sure they just wanted to get vayne farm. you winning that dive really set the tone of the game imo, they were more discordant after that than anything and we reacted to split pushes correctly. but I think that has more to do with your experience w/ elise rather than elise being suited for a 2v1, and misplay on their part.
push strat is too gimmicky for me, it gives this sense of urgency I don't really like. being forced to make plays can be really disastrous, and at our level of play, having a disaster is kind of like snowballing the other team. I mean our scores that game were all like x/0/y, like I shudder to think about our ability to discipline ourselves if it was 0/x/0 or something.
anyway, I'd rather outplay a team rather than bumrush them and hope they crumble, like the best moments in that game for me were you surviving the dive at top, forcing good fights, and people actually be wary of overextending by themselves. but I dunno that's personal preference I can play either style.
IsayFever
Member
That's why we should keep practicing it. We need we can execute it well right now, but imagine once we're all just generally better at it. It'll be fucking steamroll central in the ranked 5 ladder. I mean Rex and I have gotten pretty good at the Sona/Cait combo and taking a turret within 6 waves of minions, so it's just a matter of continuing to play the style to improve form
That's the great (maybe not so great) thing, you can get the border playing one role, and then become a terrible player with other roles. Same kind of thing with ribbons...can you ever lose an honorable opponent ribbon? You can start being a huge jerk once you get it.
I think you do lose teamwork and maybe friendly ribbons if people don't keep constantly giving you those points, however.
Hah borders are going to be hilarious. You know people are going to point out someone sucking if they have a good border. Wish you could turn them off.
We definitely weren't. At least, I was pretty against it since we hadn't practiced it all that much. Then I get to lane and I see a Taric/Vayne there that freezes lane
Rex and bind just ran with it when the lane swap was forced on us anyway. It's the right response, too: If they lane swap to accelerate the game, you just out accelerate them. It's a 2v1 tower race, basically.Well, you lane swap to accelerate the game. I do agree, though, that it's very much a play making kind of strategy that forces a lot more high pressure decisions to be made. Because of that, it also preys heavily on mistakes, like the bad dives they did on me / never pushing our turret hard; I think we rotated lanes and top turret was still at 90% health or so. Actually, did they ever get that tower?
I think they just accepted that Vayne/Taric vs Caitlyn/Sona was going to be a bad farm lane and swapped to give themselves the better chance to farm. Rex/bind just punished that decision by pushing so they didn't have the time to farm anyway since we ended laning phase so fast. They just didn't have a good team comp for that decision (lane swap with a Karthus mid and a Vayne? Still confuses me) and we had one that wanted that kind of aggression so they kind of played into our strength for us.
But, screwing up executing it is also basically the end of the game for us if we push hard. The 2v1 lane has to be comfortable fast pushing the turret and then going to a conventional 2v2 lane and pushing that fast as well. Top lane has to be comfortable playing 1v2 and then win the 1v1 after it. It's basically a hyper aggressive snowball strategy that tries to dominate laning phase and minimize farming time to get objectives. Any early game deaths are really costly and any time not getting objectives is giving up your advantage. That's why I say it's not for everyone.
Mid lane just has to win, period. It's pretty standard for them, I guess. Except with more things happening everywhere around them.
Yeah, we do need to think about what to do when/if the pushing fails. The successes of the strategy are overwhelmingly in our favor so we haven't really faced the lows of it so much. If we push one turret fast but can't convert more then that basically means that a lane will free farm against us; the game slowing down is the worst case scenario, really.
did rex take the tower dmg mastery in the game I played?
also: I'm afraid that if I take part in this I'll be the jungler all the time (tragedy of the all-rounder)
also: in terms of champ synergy our team was lacking a little bit. consider this blaze team: graves, maokai, ahri, vlad, taric. so much synergy! and like, it's a push comp that remains strong throughout
i should probably pick up maokai if we are going to be doing this
also: I'm afraid that if I take part in this I'll be the jungler all the time
(tragedy of the all-rounder)also: in terms of champ synergy our team was lacking a little bit. consider this blaze team: graves, maokai, ahri, vlad, taric. so much synergy! and like, it's a push comp that remains strong throughout
i should probably pick up maokai if we are going to be doing this
IsayFever
Member
did rex take the tower dmg mastery in the game I played?
also: I'm afraid that if I take part in this I'll be the jungler all the time
also: in terms of champ synergy our team was lacking a little bit. consider this blaze team: graves, maokai, ahri, vlad, taric. so much synergy! and like, it's a push comp that remains strong throughout
i should probably pick up maokai if we are going to be doing this
When we played it in ranked we did Cait, Sona, Orianna, Elise, Cho'Gath. Still synergy, and remains prevalent late game
Don't think so.
also: I'm afraid that if I take part in this I'll be the jungler all the time
I think the only set in stone one so far is Rex as ADC; I've mid, support, and top during this so far. It'll come down to who feels most comfortable doing 1v2 top and who wants to play aggressive support / Rex wants as support.
I want to say that one of our first attempts was closer to that. It was the Kat game where I had to relog to fix some issues and the game slowed down on us as a result
I wouldn't say we lacked synergy, though. Orianna is a scary mid-to-late game AP so it works to let mid do their thing while objectives fall around the map. A shame that Orianna ball and Rappel don't play nicely. Probably better suited for a Rengar or maybe a Nocturne jungle for the extra lane pressure. Besides that, Sona ult is just always nice.
Elise/Cho'gath might've been unnecessarily tanky but I think the low farm lets it work out for the team fights.
I can't help but think that Shen and Noc would be great for a push comp as well. Send Shen to deal with the 2v1, let him farm with Vorpal blade.
When the 2v1 lane is ready to push, just tower dive the lone top laner by using Shen ult on Noc ult, there is no way the top laner can escape. Then take a free tower. Mid could roam bot to defend as necessary, and if they don't send people in response they could lose two towers super quickly.
When the 2v1 lane is ready to push, just tower dive the lone top laner by using Shen ult on Noc ult, there is no way the top laner can escape. Then take a free tower. Mid could roam bot to defend as necessary, and if they don't send people in response they could lose two towers super quickly.
ElectraStar
Junior Member
Damn, I want in on this shiet. I can Cait or support Cait as Nunu!
im closer bro
like this is all theory but
I think two picks made sense: Orianna and Cho Gath
Cait and Sona can make for an aggressive bot, but can get fucked w/ proper jungle presence, sona ult is consistently relevant, cait range is consistently relevant, but it's more pokey sustainy, like if the other team has a means of engaging, they will suffer in a straight fight.
Elise, if I'm getting this right I fucking blow with her, is super aggressive harassy, whereas in a 2v1 you want sustain, passive, farming. her escape is situational, but her surprising damage can be really useful towards a shitty dive. her teamfight isn't as good as vlad's who also offers a really good wave clear, and clear discernible strength in team fights
orianna on the other hand has incredible utility, damage, disengage and engage, w/e. she kinda needs blue though, but like playing against a karthus, she's pretty much superior in every way. like imagine if their initial invade had worked out, but it didn't because of ori ball. we are kind of lazy in warding at lvl 1.
cho is a good example of a utility jungle, something that can be fairly strong w/o many items, something that can gank fairly well, push out a lane if he needs to, I mean just basically fill something out if he needs to. his team fight is pretty situational, like you can land the perfect silence or knockup or not, his ult is always good, it's not the kind of damage most expect from a jungler w/ no items.
like this is by no means a bad comp, but look how crazy good that blaze one i posted is. we relied entirely on being ahead of the other team, but I don't think a good push comp necessarily needs to focus on early gold advantage, more on the map control that down towers give you. like, defending towers or counter-ganks are a big part of this, or just being at the right place at the right time. we would have been completely irrelevant if the other team knew how to group up and turtle shit since we were basically sieging nonstop. well not completely, but they would have won that game ez pz if they were better players, I think if we are gonna wrack our minds trying to practice a strat we should keep contingency in mind.
I'm not saying our comp was bad really. also rex can probably play other things besides ad
support nunu as cait
davidpdong
Member
o now u guys want to team ranked...
here's the tldr:
how to account for proper response to your strat/can your strat hold up? how to not base success on confusing the enemy? it is possible to have a comp that fits multiple strats (blaze, push, teamfight, early jungle presence). how to make rex not only play ad? how to make ufo feel wanted?
how to make people go outside their comfort zones/have a bigger champ/role pool? outside the narrative of look at the powah of my "insert champ" vs. look at the powah of our team?
how to account for proper response to your strat/can your strat hold up? how to not base success on confusing the enemy? it is possible to have a comp that fits multiple strats (blaze, push, teamfight, early jungle presence). how to make rex not only play ad? how to make ufo feel wanted?
how to make people go outside their comfort zones/have a bigger champ/role pool? outside the narrative of look at the powah of my "insert champ" vs. look at the powah of our team?
IsayFever
Member
Oh shit forgot you were closer there for a min. Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
Also that game we were going to play standard if you'll recall, but they swapped on us so we shoved it back in their face, so our comp wasn't ideal
Also that game we were going to play standard if you'll recall, but they swapped on us so we shoved it back in their face, so our comp wasn't ideal
The hard part is getting Shen :x Bind got him once (I think it was the Zyra game I did? The one with the random Lee Sin jungle) and it worked fairly well. Any Teleport top lane could work, though.
I think the original plan drafted up was with a Lee Sin jungle and to just be a hyper aggressive essentially 3v1 lane. Then Tales of the Lane showed that basically exactly happening but with Ashe instead of Caitlyn. Though, they ran more of a "push that entire lane down" strat rather than the "take all first tier tower" strat.
Caitlyn gives one of the best 2v1 offensive zoning options and safest way to take down the turret. She's not integral or anything but I wouldn't say she's a bad pick here.
Elise has better objective control than Vlad, though it's not really the role that needs filling for the comp (barring situations where we need to separate to split push). Vlad does well because he doesn't need the items to be team fight useful: Just land an ult. Elise has the better early-to-mid game and gives the comp a diving in tank.
Taric isn't really an ideal pick for this, though. He makes it a good kill lane, sure, but Zyra is ultimately a better push lane support and team fight support (granted, Zyra's kind of ridiculous right now). Sona's poke is really good for a 2v1 lane as well and she still provides one of the best team fight ults from a support. Honestly, Taric is pretty low on my list of ideal supports. He's just amazing with Graves in lane but it's not really necessary.
Ahri's strength for the team comp is her Charm for picking out people but she has a worse team fight than Orianna. Honestly, she's not really a great pick for this. I don't know what niche she's filling besides obligatory burst damage here. I suppose roaming potential but Katarina is better here for that. There's better snowball mids too and I'd rather snowball Orianna or Katarina than Ahri if given the choice.
Vlad's 2v1 is ... alright. He's in a similar situation as Elise (invuln escape to prevent dives) but Elise is a bit better under turret at low levels if only due to her having two Qs for last hitting that are on a lower cooldown. Come late game, Vlad is better for the team fight as his ult scales up the advantage the rest of your team has. I can play Vlad, though, so it's not really an issue.
Maokai is Maokai.
What our team comp did have was Orianna for the mobility advantage, Cho'gath knock-up for catching people, and Elise stun to hold them there; Sona and Orianna ult are just devastating when played right. Cho'gath and Elise gave us two tanks that can just wade in there and deal decent damage even very few damage items built; Elise E let me dive the carry out every time they tried to escape as well. Caitlyn's range kept her out of Karthus defile, though Olaf was an issue (and probably why he was picked, to just walk into her), and her ult let her pick off people trying to escape.
But, we didn't pick this team comp to push out. We did it because the opportunity was there. I think we based the comp originally off Katarina mid and a good 1v2 top with Teleport (ideally Shen but ... Shen).
The idea of the push comp is to get the early advantage and use the downed towers to give you objective (and jungle) control. You bleed them dry. If the game slows down and you don't get that control, the comp struggles and you give up free farm. You have to establish that kind of control first. We can't sit back and rest with one tower down, y'know?
We get an advantage and use it to force situations where they have to engage on us to stop us but they don't want to engage on us due to being worse off item wise. The strat isn't based entirely around confusing the enemy, it just helps that the strat forces them to react better. The strat is exactly about map control and dominance, it just gets it there by being hyper aggressive with the early towers. Laning phase is abrupt. Objectives and map presence are king.
If they had turtled up, we would've rotated through more objectives or had one of us split push while it was sieged 4v5. Elise is great at split pushing due to how fast she can take down towers. I learned Nidalee for this kind of split pushing strat.
I do agree we need a backup plan or at least know how to play it when things fail.
Rex is probably the only ADC I'd trust with the comp right now if only due to him being the only one familiar with it.
I feel comfortable playing top, mid, or support for this. I think my Graves isn't bad, per se, but I don't feel like it's good enough to be the focus of the strat. Not yet, anyway.
I don't necessarily mind trying it, I just don't like being the reason we lose. I have bad confidence issues I guess!
Reading the last few pages makes me feel bad. I'm a mediocre at best jungler and if anyone counter-jungles me I have absolutely no idea what to do about it, and I even play the "standard" junglers to make it as easy as possible on myself.
I can handle at least a few champs in any lane for any other role, but not jungling, not at all. I suppose considering the jungle changes it might be a good time to learn, but still. I have a hard time mustering the desire.
I can handle at least a few champs in any lane for any other role, but not jungling, not at all. I suppose considering the jungle changes it might be a good time to learn, but still. I have a hard time mustering the desire.
yeah I mean I'm not advocating for this ideal comp situation, and like I could nitpick some of the things you said but that's not really the point
just excited at the prospect of a more wholesome approach to the game and moving room at champ select
to address why I think the blaze comp is good: the %s mang. armor aura, vlad ult, graves mobility, mao ults and early game presence, ahri sustain and safety. like it's all relational to the enemy team too, I think they were playing against TSM who ran an inferior, but strong team fight comp through yorick/corki/nunu, w/ global presence from tf + everything that janna offers. and if I remember right, TSM while being behind still had relatively strong teamfights, not that blaze won just because of their comp though
just excited at the prospect of a more wholesome approach to the game and moving room at champ select
to address why I think the blaze comp is good: the %s mang. armor aura, vlad ult, graves mobility, mao ults and early game presence, ahri sustain and safety. like it's all relational to the enemy team too, I think they were playing against TSM who ran an inferior, but strong team fight comp through yorick/corki/nunu, w/ global presence from tf + everything that janna offers. and if I remember right, TSM while being behind still had relatively strong teamfights, not that blaze won just because of their comp though
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Tried support Nunu last night. Pretty fun. Just needed to remember to AA to get his passive up.
Then again it was a normal game.
Then again it was a normal game.
Do note: I'm talking about when we do Ranked 5s with that kind of comp. If we're doing normals, it can certainly be looser.
nah I think that's great, I just like the attitude this kind of thing fosters
I think the ability to be loose is a great characteristic for most of the top teams. like you can talk about how certain people only play certain champs, but it's always team orientated, and being flexible is always desirable. I think if we approach ranked 5s not with the intent of cheesing wins but understanding the game better, it'd be prtty sweet
I'm a theorycrafter at heart. I love this kind of discussion, especially since it's with the people I play with normally anyway. And as boken said before, we really do need to look to improve across the board.
Also, I'm bored at work help
PhillipCostigan
Member
Carried my team as jungle Jax in that last game I played. Honestly, the team was just terrible. We had an insta-lock Zed bot with an Olaf and a Yorick top who just got absolutely battered by a Kong. I finished 15/8/9, took down all the inhib turrets as well as getting the first turret of the match after a successful gank bot. Got an inhib too, as well soloing Baron. I won the game for my team.
Previous to that I played a game as jungle Fiora. Went 8/6/8, was involved in all of my team's 16 kills. Again I had a terrible team, even worse than before, and I just couldn't carry them enough in that game.
But it got me thinking about the LoL elo system and just how fundamentally broken it is for teams. In that Fiora game, even though it was a normal, I would have lost whatever amount of invisible back-end elo in that game, even though I personally played really well. In the Jax game, I gave our team elo they didn't deserve because I won the game for them. That means those bad players are going to be in other peoples' games, completely out of their depth. The elo system simply doesn't take performance into account at all. It's such a weird system for a game like LoL. One bad lane can completely ruin a game of LoL for your team, even if other people are playing well. I'm at least silver in terms of ability, potentially gold, but I keep getting stuck in bronze elo because of terrible teams.
Anybody have any thoughts on this?
Previous to that I played a game as jungle Fiora. Went 8/6/8, was involved in all of my team's 16 kills. Again I had a terrible team, even worse than before, and I just couldn't carry them enough in that game.
But it got me thinking about the LoL elo system and just how fundamentally broken it is for teams. In that Fiora game, even though it was a normal, I would have lost whatever amount of invisible back-end elo in that game, even though I personally played really well. In the Jax game, I gave our team elo they didn't deserve because I won the game for them. That means those bad players are going to be in other peoples' games, completely out of their depth. The elo system simply doesn't take performance into account at all. It's such a weird system for a game like LoL. One bad lane can completely ruin a game of LoL for your team, even if other people are playing well. I'm at least silver in terms of ability, potentially gold, but I keep getting stuck in bronze elo because of terrible teams.
Anybody have any thoughts on this?
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