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League of Legends |OT3| Lizards are red, golems are blue. Give a leash or no gank 4 u

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You don't have to try hard in ARAM's like you might in a ranked game. If you are going to build random items you should probably tell your team that to see if they are comfortable with it.

But if you intentionally build items that do nothing for your character or team (ie Abyssal on Wukong is basically flushing gold down the toilet), then you are essentially condemning them to a poor fate.
A lot of obscure things do usually make sense in ARAM just due to the flow of the game. I usually skip GP items on supports and instead focus on building either AP/Aura items or getting stacks in a tear instead. That ends up helping a lot in Aram I find. Obviously there are limits to what you can do. I wouldn't build AD on Sona or AP on ashe(although I must admit Instagibbing someone with her Ult would be pretty darn hilarious).

I see it as more of a request than anything. If you get it, then good. If not, then roll with the punches and go from there.

Good thing no one asks for support.

Hey, I ask for support :p.

Pick order > call order

I disagree with this statement. If someone is good with a (character)role and I have an earlier pick it would make more sense for me to pick that character and ask them to choose another champ for me and then swap with them. I'd rather have my teammates playing the character/role they feel most comfortable with instead of being forced into a role they aren't comfortable with, especially in solo que. In League/Dota a team is only as strong as it's weakest link.
 

scy

Member
Some people just play highly specialized (which is stupid but they do)

I disagree. Everyone has a role they're best at or preferred. Generally speaking, I find most the people who say that they can "fill" are equally terrible at all roles; most the "I can fill" players still have their preferred roles. They're just okay with playing something else. They're still specialized.

If you don't get to play the role you know, sure, you need to learn something else instead of "TOP OR FEED" or whatever. But there's no harm in knowing one role better than the rest. In fact, that's the best way to win. It's the same logic behind playing mostly one champion.
 
I disagree. Everyone has a role they're best at or preferred. Generally speaking, I find most the people who say that they can "fill" are equally terrible at all roles; most the "I can fill" players still have their preferred roles. They're just okay with playing something else. They're still specialized.

If you don't get to play the role you know, sure, you need to learn something else instead of "TOP OR FEED" or whatever. But there's no harm in knowing one role better than the rest. In fact, that's the best way to win. It's the same logic behind playing mostly one champion.


Maybe it's just me but I haven't run into (role) or feed for a long while. It sucks that you guys have such bad luck
 

Ken

Member
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I was expecting complete failure as Zed versus Darius top but that went better than expected.
 

scy

Member
Maybe it's just me but I haven't run into (role) or feed for a long while. It sucks that you guys have such bad luck

I haven't either, though I did see a lot of "I'd like to play X but I can do anything" players who then failed miserably at ADC or jungle.

Personally, the right attitude is to have a preferred role but to be ready to play something else if need be. The trouble with this, in solo queue anyway, is trusting someone else to play your preferred role :x
 
I haven't either, though I did see a lot of "I'd like to play X but I can do anything" players who then failed miserably at ADC or jungle.

Personally, the right attitude is to have a preferred role but to be ready to play something else if need be. The trouble with this, in solo queue anyway, is trusting someone else to play your preferred role :x

I feel ya, sometimes it's a gamble, sacrifices got to be made especially when two people say they are only good at one role. :(
 

brian!

Member
I disagree. Everyone has a role they're best at or preferred. Generally speaking, I find most the people who say that they can "fill" are equally terrible at all roles; most the "I can fill" players still have their preferred roles. They're just okay with playing something else. They're still specialized.

If you don't get to play the role you know, sure, you need to learn something else instead of "TOP OR FEED" or whatever. But there's no harm in knowing one role better than the rest. In fact, that's the best way to win. It's the same logic behind playing mostly one champion.

you guys seem to be talking about two different things, like differing degrees of specialization.

there is definitely no harm in knowing one role better than the rest (I wouldn't say it's the best way to win, which is what I think essentially this argument is about), but I'm pretty sure what Ferrio is addressing is this state of panic people get into when they are shoved into something they aren't comfortable with. basically to be a team player, you need to understand how roles function and how these roles are enacted.

but having something you can describe as within your comfort zone, something that you are particularly good at shouldn't be something looked down upon, it's pretty natural I think. it's more about this invisible line where specialization can either hinder or enhance your play.

so Ferrio, I think, is in the end talking about an aspect of the community that's pretty bad, where if someone doesn't get their ideal role the team is hurt in an almost inexcusable way; the outcome of the game and the prevailing mood of the game has been decided at champ select. that really shouldn't be how the game works. like a few months back TSM was winning a bunch of scrims where their players played roles they don't usually play, that's probably a better team quality than someone like Best Riven NA who is really good at Riven, or SilSol who can basically forward only one way of playing and manipulate solo q and be high ELO because of it. And obviously TSM has preferred roles to an extent (Xpecial being probably better at mid, but being the best fit in the team for support, for example, or Oddone playing jungle because he doesn't know how to CS well), but flexibility will always be a quality that's better in a team game and a quality that helps you flesh out how the game works.

it's more about one's approach I think. invariably you will be better at one thing than another. but will you focus on one thing to the extent that it becomes a detriment? will you play Kayle every game (shoutouts to TellYourself)? will you have this fleshed out idea that you are better at X, so if you don't do X some invisible percentage chance of winning the game will diminish? that's not really how the game works, there's a lot more going on. basically it's a good idea to be confident enough to know that you will adequately provide for the team in whatever role the team needs

disclaimerz: I'm speaking pretty hypothetically and not trying to attribute some of the attitudes that I have basically theorized to real life pplz
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
In a world of "Mid or I feed" types, it makes more sense to become a flexible player (read: someone willing to be ward bitch), so you know your team isn't screwed when your preferred role is also someone else's preferred role.
 

scy

Member
you guys seem to be talking about two different things, like differing degrees of specialization.

No doubt. That's why Ferrio mentioned hyper specialized. Still, I think it's worth noting that there's nothing wrong with specializing itself.

there is definitely no harm in knowing one role better than the rest (I wouldn't say it's the best way to win, which is what I think essentially this argument is about)

Eh, there's been enough math on the subject to show otherwise. It helps more to be playing what you're best at, especially in a game where you need to be familiar with your role/champion in a variety of situations (different lane match-ups, different team comps, how good you're doing vs their team, etc.). This isn't an excuse to play just that, though.

Basically, five people good at different roles will be better than five people who are each "good at everything." Specializing helps. Overly specializing, like you mention, benefits primarily when you can guarantee you can use your specialization.
 

Ferrio

Banned
You guys over overanalyzing or something.

If you're looking to win
1. Always pick your best role.
2. If someone is insistent about playing a role, and you're able to competently play others.. then it's usually a good idea to accommodate them.
3. Learning all roles (even on a basic level) will help you in your best role.

That's all I meant.
 
For solo queue, I'd recommend letting someone play their best role, and if it's not available, their best champ. I'd rather have a pro Teemo bot than a terrible Janna.
 

brian!

Member
You guys over overanalyzing or something.

If you're looking to win
1. Always pick your best role.
2. If someone is insistent about playing a role, and you're able to competently play others.. then it's usually a good idea to accommodate them.
3. Learning all roles (even on a basic level) will help you in your best role.

That's all I meant.

nah i dont think thinking about something is bad
 

zkylon

zkylewd
For solo queue, I'd recommend letting someone play their best role, and if it's not available, their best champ. I'd rather have a pro Teemo bot than a terrible Janna.
Yeah, unless you can carry hard it's often best to leave people play whatever you want so they'll suck less.
 

Blizzard

Banned
That Froggen game...I don't know what to think. Twitch on Zed's team was fed 8/1 but I guess Froggen was feeding enough that Zed could also go 8/0? I'd need to look at the stats for the other games (edit, I just saw some) to get a better feel. And stuff like this:

Compared to some other assassins this isn't an amazing feat. Late-Game I've managed to burst tanks with items like Frozen Heart, Randuin's Omen, and Frozen Mallet from 100% to 0% with a full combo...
I really want to see the math on that tank bursting, not to mention his comment about dream teamfighting and jumping between three locations. W only goes in front of you if I recall correctly, and R only goes behind the champion you are attempting to burst, and neither of those last longer than 4 seconds if I recall correctly, so you're going to be very limited in your jumping.

He can towerdive other lanes effectively (R in, combo, W out) to pick up easily kills when roaming.
What is the "combo" mentioned? W + QE? The E won't hit the enemy unless it lands on top of them, in which case you won't be able to "W out" since W will be inside the tower...or are you trying to run closer to the tower after diving them with R?

I would also think that some teams would be able to capitalize on the lack of AP damage in the Froggen game he mentioned, but maybe not.

Does this player stream games?

Also, it's not nice to see that even at 1800+ elo, people still type "fag" or whatever in the chat. :/
 
You guys over overanalyzing or something.

If you're looking to win
1. Always pick your best role.
2. If someone is insistent about playing a role, and you're able to competently play others.. then it's usually a good idea to accommodate them.
3. Learning all roles (even on a basic level) will help you in your best role.

That's all I meant.

Agreed, I still need to properly learn top. Without doing that I feel I limit my jungle potential :(
 

EXGN

Member
That Froggen game...I don't know what to think. Twitch on Zed's team was fed 8/1 but I guess Froggen was feeding enough that Zed could also go 8/0? I'd need to look at the stats for the other games (edit, I just saw some) to get a better feel. And stuff like this:


I really want to see the math on that tank bursting, not to mention his comment about dream teamfighting and jumping between three locations. W only goes in front of you if I recall correctly, and R only goes behind the champion you are attempting to burst, and neither of those last longer than 4 seconds if I recall correctly, so you're going to be very limited in your jumping.


What is the "combo" mentioned? W + QE? The E won't hit the enemy unless it lands on top of them, in which case you won't be able to "W out" since W will be inside the tower...or are you trying to run closer to the tower after diving them with R?

I would also think that some teams would be able to capitalize on the lack of AP damage in the Froggen game he mentioned, but maybe not.

Does this player stream games?

Also, it's not nice to see that even at 1800+ elo, people still type "fag" or whatever in the chat. :/

Yeah, he streams. He's pretty well regarded, he wrote a bunch of the really popular SoloMid guides and has bounced around between a few pro teams.

Zedding right now actually:
http://www.twitch.tv/fyaumashi
 

Ken

Member

I'm going to read this...later.

Hm..nothing really new that I don't know except for the 22/5/3 page. I'm running 21/9/0 at the moment and my AD pen page. I actually max E over Q first because Q is a skill shot which is obviously dependent on how good you are with those and I'm not good at all. I'm going to get more out of WE harass than trying to land Qs. The "you don't need an AP Top if you have AD mid" is interesting but I can't imagine it going over too well with solo queuers in low ELO.

Zed's pretty comparable to Talon but also better in some ways. He has his own version of Rake but not being mana dependent means he can harass more. No stealth though means you need to be really tricky with shadow clones in a team fight to get out if didn't blow someone up.
 

Ken

Member
Shyvayne: nty
Shyvayne: i dont really plkay shen
Cklegend: who says you're getting top
Shyvayne: i called top
Cklegend: ever hear of pick order
Shyvayne: dont be a d
Shyvayne: i dont jungle
Shyvayne: well
Cklegend: sucks
Shyvayne: dude plx
No0b FFax3l: oh men...
 
Shyvayne: nty
Shyvayne: i dont really plkay shen
Cklegend: who says you're getting top
Shyvayne: i called top
Cklegend: ever hear of pick order
Shyvayne: dont be a d
Shyvayne: i dont jungle
Shyvayne: well
Cklegend: sucks
Shyvayne: dude plx
No0b FFax3l: oh men...

How's the Zedathon going?
 

EXGN

Member
My luck continues! 3/0 in season 3 so far. Still waiting for the inevitable 7 game loss streak, but for now I'm enjoying my 1310 elo :p
 

Blizzard

Banned
My luck continues! 3/0 in season 3 so far. Still waiting for the inevitable 7 game loss streak, but for now I'm enjoying my 1310 elo :p
I almost got to it, once I stopped playing Eve I won 4 in a row or so, was 5/3, might almost have gotten to 1300 for the first time in my life...then had like 3 terrible game. 1000-1200 is my deserved spot.

*edit* About Zed E, "It only hits for damage once is the problem. Hitting twice simply applies a slow but only the damage once."
 
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