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League of Legends |OT3| Lizards are red, golems are blue. Give a leash or no gank 4 u
- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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PhillipCostigan
Member
So I've started jungling a bit more again, just to say goodbye to the lovely season 2 jungle, and I was playing Rengar. Man, he's still broken as fuuuuuuuuuck.
Tried the tanky/bruiser build that most of the pros were using at IPL5 and whatnot, and it's just ridiculous. I had zerker's, warmog's, a GA and trinity force and I was unkillable and putting out a tonne of sustained damage. The insane tankiness combined with the constant Q-then-basic+sheen-proc does crazy damage, nobody could kill me and the phage proc/bloa strike and bush leaps meant nobody ever got away.
He's got the perfect kit; he's mana and resource-less, has a slow, an AoE, a damage steroid, stealth, a gap closer and can reveal enemies in a radius.
I kinda felt bad playing him. Still, I did piss myself laughing when I popped my ulti after being late to a teamfight and caught a stealth bastard Teemo with ~200 health standing still in a bush, thinking nobody could see him. I proceeded to Q jump all over his face.
RIP all squishies.
Tried the tanky/bruiser build that most of the pros were using at IPL5 and whatnot, and it's just ridiculous. I had zerker's, warmog's, a GA and trinity force and I was unkillable and putting out a tonne of sustained damage. The insane tankiness combined with the constant Q-then-basic+sheen-proc does crazy damage, nobody could kill me and the phage proc/bloa strike and bush leaps meant nobody ever got away.
He's got the perfect kit; he's mana and resource-less, has a slow, an AoE, a damage steroid, stealth, a gap closer and can reveal enemies in a radius.
I kinda felt bad playing him. Still, I did piss myself laughing when I popped my ulti after being late to a teamfight and caught a stealth bastard Teemo with ~200 health standing still in a bush, thinking nobody could see him. I proceeded to Q jump all over his face.
RIP all squishies.
Here is a s3 shop simulator for those itching to get ready for the update:
http://s3.microtony.com/
http://s3.microtony.com/
He is still really strong. I love him in the jungle. He and Lee Sin are my goto junglers. Nothing is easier than walking down a lane, stealthing and jumping on some poor sap who pushed your teammate up to the turret. They rarely get away.
I was able to download the patch, but the servers are down. In fact the server status is "undefined".
PhillipCostigan
Member
Saw a lot of Fiora in the Preseason patch video, is it too much of a leap to take that as an indication that they're working on a bit of a rework? I hope they are 
Also, Ravenous Hydra is an essential item for Fiora in the recommended section of the new shop. Pretty awesome.
Also, Ravenous Hydra is an essential item for Fiora in the recommended section of the new shop. Pretty awesome.
Inskipp
Member
I'm liking the new utility as well.
Yeah utility is fun for supports or speed junglers.
Servers up, oh and chat rooms are fixed. woo
anyway, here are my starting item notes for you all, including mid game build options.
Yeah utility is fun for supports or speed junglers.
Servers up, oh and chat rooms are fixed. woo
anyway, here are my starting item notes for you all, including mid game build options.
Hmm.. mid build options are pretty ugly for sustain if you aren't building a codex/chalice/tear. I would not like to start 1 pot.
edit: Watching Chaox play. Hurricane is pretty awesome on Cait. New jungle looks like it definitely has impacted early ganks. Didn't see much jungler presence across the map for the first 10 min or so.
Dont forget, everybody can viably reach biscuiteer (80 hp, 50 mana over 10s)
Force of Nature was removed so they could add more MR items (Bulwark, namely) and Movement Speed items. Having both stats on the same item kind of diminished the options for adding more. That's their words on it, anyway.
I play top. I almost always will just be something that can either dive their carries (Elise, Irelia) or split push (Elise, Nidalee). I rarely play my Riven, Olaf, Vlad, etc.
If I pick Zed mid, we basically lose unless all lanes win. We don't have enough people that play an AP top when I play mid Zed to get the most out of this. On the other hand, it might work better in S3 with the better options vs stacked Armor + greater cost to itemize Armor.
I need to win lane harder so I can push and roam. Being "held" to 1-2 kills in lane against someone that can hold turret (e.g., that Gragas top game) is frustrating. I can't roam and let them free farm but I can't push them out since "lol hugging turret."
Or just having a neutral lane in general (Nidalee vs Darius game) is beyond frustrating. I didn't even really get to shut him down and he came into team fights with FM + Randuins.
That sona game guys. The last time I'll ever build heart of gold
My last DPS Irelia game also had my last Heart of Gold purchase. Goodbye, GP10 with Health.
...so now everyone will try to shoehorn in Sight Stone to replace it.
I'd like to add that Cloth5 for tops builds into Warden's Mail for a cheap item to greatly help out in trades for some squishier tops (e.g., Fiora). Longsword also has Tiamat as an option, not that Tiamat first will be the best option for the Tiamat users. Brutalizer is there as well for the Longsword start.
Jazzy Network
Member
Can't wait to desperately try to get my 1000th win again tonight and throw games hard.
forgeforsaken
Member
That spellsword mastery on Diana!
lazorexplosion
Member
Agreed, pots are too important. Very tempted to just go flask, ward, pots and outsustain for ages.
I agree. Especially on high base damage champs - Diana, Kat, Kassadin. I.e. Assassins lol.
Squishes are meant to die. Personally I like this feel far more like other games or even S1 I'm pumped. Sure I'm sqiushy but now I do damage and have weapon variety. S2 stunk on what I mentioned and was far too passive.
It's nice that Riot put a page together listing all of the changed items but since I didn't really have most of the item stats memorized it's hard for me to tell what has changed about most of them. Does anyone have a link to a side by side item change reference?
Also, what is the deal with armor/magic penetration? That changed somehow?
Also, what is the deal with armor/magic penetration? That changed somehow?
They've lowered all forms of armor and magic pen but now they apply % reduction before flat reduction.
So have the Rune values changed enough to warrant buying completely new sets of them (vs the standard S2 runes)? I'm talking like, AP quints, MR? Reds, Mana5 at 18, Movespeed, Armor ect. I'm wondering if I need to worry about buying more or if I can use most of my IP on Cait and (hopefully soon) Nami.
Not sure what you're asking, actually. The rune changes are retroactive. It is worth noting that Hybrid Penetration runes are a bit better now compared to before. Akali, Gragas, maybe even Elise, Nidalee, etc. may get more mileage out of them now than before.
Probably will see a few more full Armor Pen setups, though ADCs will probably still want flat AD for lane (so they don't fuck up those siege minion kills).
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Just logged on and read the patch notes, wtf is with these changes. I haven't been keeping track of these things and it's like a tidal wave of random shit changed.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
holy shit is that what the store looks like now? I'm still trying to login
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
We usually do pretty good in teamfight, yesterday was kind of wierd since no one want to make any call or play. Just let the laning phase naturally collasp, then wondering around the map waiting for team fight.
Wolf Akela
Member
Lee Sin's clear times are okay, drawing with Warwick. You just have to start with machete.
Unlike Warwick though, he comes out at around half health with no potions after the clear. WW clears the jungle at full health without any potions.
Basically:
More (passive) global gold for players with a slight hit to gold from minions/kills. It comes out to slightly more gold for the carries and a significant boost to jungler and support gold. Supports also got a lot more toys to play with to give them more active itemization roles. This is both defensive (Mikael's Crucible with the active Heal) or aggressive (Twin Shadow with the active "seek out and slow nearest champion" active to hunt down an escaping target). And then general teamfight utility stuff (Shard of True Ice with the targeted active slow aura).
Item changes in general are shifted more towards aggressive play as well. AD is cheaper with Armor more expensive; AP didn't change much in cost but the items for it come sooner (with slightly reduced effect than before). Attack Speed is more expensive as well as a way to curb end-game carry sustained damage (but, again, cheaper AD to compensate). This shifts some of the power dynamic towards the mid-game across the board.
Flat Armor Penetration / Magic Penetration scale better into the late game with the changes to how Flat and %Penetration stacks.
Edit: Forgot to mention the jungle changes. Jungle is harder than before with slightly reduced early game rewards (which is more-or-less balanced with the increased passive gold) and scales into more gold for the mid-game. This is to try and shift junglers from doing early (2-4) ganks always.
tl;dr of that: More gold, damage is cheaper, mid-game is more important, supports got new toys.
I kept trying to say we need to group up. Let me set top or bot to push and then we'll siege mid etc. but then someone would get caught or a bad engage (because I'd be off getting top to push or people grabbing buffs/buying) or we wouldn't do anything with a pushing lane. Or just a sloppy teamfight happens, etc.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Thanks for the summary. Is it me or is it becoming a little more like DotA 2? I've noticed some similarities with these changes. The Machete is like the axe in dota, I forget if it was an axe lawl but that item which does bonus dmg to monsters a lot of heroes get to start the game. Also the movement speed buff to all champions (Dota has way faster movement).
Also, do you think attack speed% runes are even better now? I've got a set that gives 25% AS so with AS becoming more expensive in items maybe the cost/value ratio just went up big for the runes.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
The machete (quelling blade) flask (bottle) and new Tiamat (battlefury) are all pretty DoTA-esque
Support is a lot of fun with the new items. New shop is not even remotely intuitive.
Nobody is actually getting faster. They took movespeed off the boots in exchange.
It's hard to say if it's because of DotA though. I mean, Machete makes sense since there's an entire role based around killing the jungle. Give them a starting item for it. The movement change was to try to get away from "everyone starts boots, best start" since Base Movement + 50 is a lot to give up.
So I guess people will think however they want to in regards to that.
There's a chance. But, I'm not sure if ADCs (the primary target of the change) will give up Flat AD for it.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Holy shit, like almost every single major item changed, many in significant ways. I've only gone down the +attack damage items so far and am stunned. Now to check out AP and defense...
I tried to alleviate some pressure but I either couldn't just flat out take the turret or they would never send the jungler top to deal with me.
I'm more scared of it on someone who doesn't build ASPD/Crit%. 300 AD Zed? Talon? Kha'zix? It's basically an active 600% AD item.
Edit: I so hope to god this makes a Hydra -> Mercurial -> SotD Fiora build viable.
lazorexplosion
Member
Try this. That's actually for an earlier PBE patch so it may not be quite up to date but most things are the same.
Really excited about the changes and new items and I can't wait til today's over to try them out.
Thinking about it, I don't think a flask start will be as good as the other options available. For 225g it doesn't offer much more than 70g worth of potions and the reusability won't provide returns until you b twice with the intention of buying 2+ pots each time. Even though I find myself buying pots more, that usually only means 2-3 more than the initial 3, which puts it just under par with flask. That's not to say I wouldn't get a flask though. I would probably buy my first back if I had 225g to spare.
fake edit: Just noticed they reduced health pot to 150 from 200... and apparently it's been that way for a while? How do I not notice these things? :<
Thinking about it, I don't think a flask start will be as good as the other options available. For 225g it doesn't offer much more than 70g worth of potions and the reusability won't provide returns until you b twice with the intention of buying 2+ pots each time. Even though I find myself buying pots more, that usually only means 2-3 more than the initial 3, which puts it just under par with flask. That's not to say I wouldn't get a flask though. I would probably buy my first back if I had 225g to spare.
fake edit: Just noticed they reduced health pot to 150 from 200... and apparently it's been that way for a while? How do I not notice these things? :<
HappyBivouac
Member
BF Sword and Pickaxe being 100 gold cheaper is AMAZING.
Really excited about the changes and new items and I can't wait til today's over to try them out.
Thinking about it, I don't think a flask start will be as good as the other options available. For 225g it doesn't offer much more than 70g worth of potions and the reusability won't provide returns until you b twice with the intention of buying 2+ pots each time. Even though I find myself buying pots more, that usually only means 2-3 more than the initial 3, which puts it just under par with flask. That's not to say I wouldn't get a flask though. I would probably buy my first back if I had 225g to spare.
fake edit: Just noticed they reduced health pot to 150 from 200... and apparently it's been that way for a while? How do I not notice these things? :<
Flask is ~36 Gold per use. 7 charges to get it to pay for itself.
Alternatively, 4 charges and then selling it (90g selling price) to get it to pay for itself. That's probably the best way to think of it.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Yup, they are definitely Dota-izing the game. The flask is just like the tree chopper item in dota 2, among all the other similarities we discussed above.
Riot has some balls to make such significant changes. I wonder if player count/play time were going down or something.
Riot has some balls to make such significant changes. I wonder if player count/play time were going down or something.
Well yeah, and the way I've been playing my lanes, I only buy pots on the first b (6 charges and can't sell til the second b), rarely the second b (9 charges), which if the first holds true makes it just flat cheaper to buy pots. Maybe on an aggressive mid lane I would consider flask as a starting item or as a top laner since I buy a lot of pots there. I guess I should rephrase and say that I think a flask start is a bit more niche and applies to a playstyle that doesn't fit me, but I still think in general it will be overlooked compared to other starting combinations.
Sorry for the rambling. I basically wanted to know if my set of S2 Runes were still ideal or if I should be putting some IP aside for others that are now "more" ideal. That might depend on the champion in question, though?
I've been finding myself Mid a lot (Fizz) and had a standard set for him (with Movement Quints instead of flat AP), but I like the Support role a lot as well if it's open. I've been ADC sometimes and solo top a few times. Not much jungling, but I guess since everyone is a noob at it now it might be a good time to learn.
I dunno, I think the majority of the player base was frustrated that 2/5 positions essentially ended up being support roles for your carries. I think the new items and changes will make supports more impactful and also open up the options for playing a variety of champions.
Is this a bad thing? If not and Riot is adopting better gameplay practices, then why does it take balls to do so?
I'd also say that flask is more similar to bottle than it is tango.
It's unlikely, but I'm hoping the additional support items aren't enough to influence new support players. Don't want them stealing my support slot. :x *glares at nosh*
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