Right. You noticed we crushed them. But with that advantage he's only barely ahead of his opponent. As opposed to also crushing in cs.
VoD up. http://www.twitch.tv/voyboy/b/362677777 @ 6:30:00
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League of Legends |OT3| Lizards are red, golems are blue. Give a leash or no gank 4 u
- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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Right. You noticed we crushed them. But with that advantage he's only barely ahead of his opponent. As opposed to also crushing in cs.
VoD up. http://www.twitch.tv/voyboy/b/362677777 @ 6:30:00
Crap, should have read the thread more before I posted. Loved this match. Heimerdinger is one of my top 3 favorite champs, and I loved that he got some tournament play. And man that announcer had a joygasm when Heimer was locked in.
In majority of my games he's punished by really high DPS heroes, and that's all I go up against right now. Didn't think he was good enough to be banned since so many heroes just laugh at him with their range.
As otherwise noted, my team beat Voyboy's team; their Vlad either DC'd or something came up and our bot lane did really well. Merc ganked the hell out of top (and, if I recall the comments in Mumble, someone said that Voyboy mentioned the Vi played really well) and let me get back into the swing of things come the mid-game.
That's Mercs win:loss, though I think mine's about the same Wins over losses count. Not sure on the exact counts (~650-ish / ~400-ish? Probably 420-430 losses by now).
Wait, what? Someone mentioned the game so I responded about it. My takeaway from the game is that I got outplayed and I need to work on more basic aspects of Kayle. I'm still relatively new to her (in SR, TT lane mechanics are different) and I made a lot of poor decisions (bad mana management, not keeping track of my E duration, popping E too early, not ulting as Ryze Q/E is in flight as opposed to before he even casts, etc.).
I'm not satisfied by that game. I think that's a healthy attitude to take. I'm not beating myself up over it, just being truthful on what I did poorly in that game. I guess I can balance it out by saying that I played the start of it right (denying him EXP/cs so I can get early Level 2) and playing my recovery relatively well (one notable exception of getting caught trying to farm top).
If it's being taken as bragging than I really need to reevaluate how I post. My point was that I could have done better. I made a bunch of mistakes and he exploited them. I'm only complaining so much about it because it was on stream so I have it right there to analyze with his comments on it (assuming he said much on it, I haven't watched the VoD yet).
That and the game got mentioned. I do agree that it was A) Cool that we played against Voyboy (and, rather, quite unexpected) and B) Even better that we won. I just wish I had done better early on. I eventually did well in the end because I got to finish my Nashor's/Liandry and my team carried me into relevancy.
I'm not really.
The closest is that I'm still
over being called out for ghosting. I had good ward coverage and just general game sense (Ryze mia from lane after pushing it up after JUST coming back from base, didn't go through river since it's warded, wonder what he's up to?!).The end of the game was me getting a few kills (and many towers) to get back to positive ratio and high gold. Put another way, the final pushes were done with me having Sorc Shoes (1100 Gold), Nashor's (2615 Gold), and Liandry's (2900 Gold) or 6615 Gold in items. I bought a good amount of pots and wards but that still means I finished the game with about 3k banked from the final push to win.
But, okay, I'll just ... not say anything if it gets brought up again. Sorry.
davidpdong
Member
Nah brah don't sweat it, it's always good to want to improve your play no matter what.
There are always mistakes to improve upon esp playing against a very skilled player who exposes them much harder than a less skilled player.
I was impressed with Voyboys headmath, knowing the exact amount of dmg he could take to dive you even considering your ult. The second time he dove you, under tower he correctly predicted your ult timing backed out and then back in for the kill escaping with like 20hp, he moved with such confidence that he knew exactly how that situation would shake out.
He got pretty cocky with his early lead and got ganked by merc twice early and he had no ward coverage.
good jerb broze.
Also, your graves and mercvipur took those guys to murder bridge midgame.
There are always mistakes to improve upon esp playing against a very skilled player who exposes them much harder than a less skilled player.
I was impressed with Voyboys headmath, knowing the exact amount of dmg he could take to dive you even considering your ult. The second time he dove you, under tower he correctly predicted your ult timing backed out and then back in for the kill escaping with like 20hp, he moved with such confidence that he knew exactly how that situation would shake out.
He got pretty cocky with his early lead and got ganked by merc twice early and he had no ward coverage.
good jerb broze.
Also, your graves and mercvipur took those guys to murder bridge midgame.
Playing against/seeing really good players (or at minimum, players way above my skill level) has I think inspired me to learn certain champions or maybe improve certain aspects, so that's good.
And correcting myself about Azubu, apparently both teams had already been in at least one tournament, IEM Katowice, which was won by Gambit Gaming.
And correcting myself about Azubu, apparently both teams had already been in at least one tournament, IEM Katowice, which was won by Gambit Gaming.
Two dives stand out to me:
One dive he got out with ~200 Health. My Q had come up before I died (and I had mana for it) so if I had reacted faster, it would've fired off for a 1:1 trade. Maybe. Cast animations and all.
I want to say this was the first dive when his Flash came up before mine (around same time used, he went Utility so I assume his was up around 45-60s earlier, depending on points). I tried to just play around anticipating it but it didn't work out.
The second dive with him getting out with <20 Health, I think that I Ignited before my Q landed, losing out on around ~30 or so damage. That's also the dive that made me rethink my R>Q>W>E level path; E may not gain _that_ much damage per rank but my over-use of W, something I can get away with in TT, set me behind a lot. In times like this, getting the extra ~10-30 damage per hit would've gone a long way.
This felt like the case. Merc got to always be in position top to clean up.
Edit: THREE POSTS AND I ALREADY FORGOT I SAID I WASN'T GOING TO COMMENT AGAIN ;_;
I had s'mores cooking and everything after the midgame.
Once I noticed Scy having trouble top I tried to stay in top jungle more, farming mostly golems & wraiths. Mobility boots combined with Vaultbreaker really helped me move around the map, and I made it a priority to make it topside when I noticed Ryze pushing up even if I was at bottom jungle. You can see a few times where I walk through the lane mid from bot as Ryze is preparing to engage and I make it up there in time for cleanup. I don't remember all the details but I was streaming too so I'll check my VoDs later.
Something not really shown by Voyboy's POV is that I got an early countergank mid for Anivia that gave her 2 kills + double buffs, putting her really far ahead. Much moreso than Ryze was ahead of Kayle. It enabled me to not even worry about mid at all so I was able to be top & bot when I was needed most.
LOL. Seriously?
davidpdong
Member
Even graves and taric were ganking top at one point lol.
I just bought at least 2 dozen pink wards and denied their vision all game
Yeah, they complained about that on his stream. Poor Leona.
Faerie Charm + 4 Health Pots + 2 Mana Pots + Ward; with the Faerie Charm removal in Codex / Nashor's, this will probably just become a 5/4 Pot split + 1 Ward I think.
Edit: 6/5/1, actually. 5/4 for pots would be 2 Wards. Numbers hard.
Build path is Codex -> Stinger -> Nashor's Tooth -> Guise -> Liandry's. Boots -> Sorc Shoes as they fit into the build / how demanding they are for the match-up (aka, probably early for top, less so for mid). There's probably some match-ups where I'd rather Guise and then Nashor's into Liandry's but I'm not 100% certain yet. As I've said earlier, my Kayle SR experience is fairly limited (that was like my 5th game with her in SR ;_
.After that are two routes:
1) Burst Damage / Single-target: DFG. This is the Ssong style and it lets you DFG + Q for almost half their health which puts you right into shredding them down. Better option against teams with that one fed guy or a bunch of glass cannon types.
2) Sustained Damage / AoE: Rageblade or Zephyr, stuff to deal more damage with your E swings. Hard CC for your team or just the ability to fight them in straight up engages rather than quick and dirty skirmishes. Hurricane is an option at 40% CDR but it's not perfectly ideal.
For that game, I probably would've went DFG. Ryze was the biggest threat and he needs to get inside DFG range to do damage so it's a safe bet. The same for their Fiora and Vlad. They're all within my range. Of them, only really Ryze would stand his ground so we'd be better served mowing down target after target.
There's the other option of just building raw AP (Deathcap + Lichbane) but I've yet to really try it as I like the Nashor's/Liandry build a lot.
Anivia and Graves did well but I honestly think you carried the game. Deprived Voyboy's advantage and setup mid-lane's success (though the d/c or whatever did that too) at the start. And then just trying to keep the calls done right at the end-game despite the Grave's best effort to throw it out the window (4v5 mid push for inhib? np I take their golems).
I also wish I had an MR page. Probably would've helped.
IsayFever
Member
Dunno, Gozu Pepper has shown the way to support in S3, so I'm just running with it. Gp10 are so useless, and sight stone is so meh it's not worth it. Can just buy pink wards all game and shit on the other support so hard while stacking armour/health utility items to carry into late game, rather than building items off of the gp10s. It literally works on every support as well, and the Doran's Shield buff only solidifies it as a more solid choice for early supports than going for Philo or Kage.
With games ending earlier, it becomes a question of "Why not buy things of value now?" Things that get you your lane dominance that in-turn becomes your mid-game position. It's even more notable with the best support items of Aegis/Bulwark and Locket being built from non-GP10 things.
Just feels like you're better off buying "real" items rather than hoping for GP10 to payoff and ending up with items that aren't super amazing.
Plus, it makes support a bit more fun to have a lot of Armor, HP, etc. dat Thresh in lane, make plays, take no damage. gg~!
Jazzy Network
Member
I get some mana regen early on Lulu and a sight stone then get at least 1 finished item (usually a Locket) then just buy pinks all day like long. I am best Lulu NA after all.
I feel like the payoff is worth it if the teamcomp is designed for a really late/long game. Otherwise, yeah, it's better to buy items of value now as scy mentioned earlier.
IsayFever
Member
Well it's kinda silly that Shurellia's and Shard of True Ice are really the only things worth picking up from gp10, and they aren't nearly as good as having a Locket early or an earlier Aegis.
Yeah. I think to make GP10s more worthwhile in these shorter games, or at least more appealing, they need to make the built items worth it. Otherwise, they're not worthwhile ventures. I mean... Come on. Aegis.
I still don't understand why Shard active doesn't give Armor/MR to the target. That way it becomes "Get Aegis for team or get Shard if you have that ONE diver" sort of thing. As it stands now, you get Shard because your diver doesn't have a slow or soft CC in their kit.
Though, even then, Shard would have to be a lot of Armor/MR* to compare to Aegis/Bulwark aura.
*Alternatively, +20% or something, so it's not super useful for ADCs, scales into the late-game.
Though, even then, Shard would have to be a lot of Armor/MR* to compare to Aegis/Bulwark aura.
*Alternatively, +20% or something, so it's not super useful for ADCs, scales into the late-game.
He has a 925 range grab and most anyone who gets grabbed can be burned down pretty quickly.
Also, you guys should have said something like this to Voyboy:
Well it's basically like you keep your top rating. So I guess elo jobs will be more valuable now haha.
There is still a hidden ELO ranking. If you lose a lot you will be playing against lower level players, you just won't lose your fancy icon.
Is there any good rule of thumb for if and when to get Liandry's? I'm afraid if I rush it on an AP champion that someone will make fun of me.
I would imagine it would be good on champions with a low-cooldown single-target ability, but I seem to remember even multiple-target abilities get usefulness out of it. Take Rumble for example. His E benefits from Liandry's, but what point in a build would it be good to try to finish the item? His Q and R are AOE.
I would imagine it would be good on champions with a low-cooldown single-target ability, but I seem to remember even multiple-target abilities get usefulness out of it. Take Rumble for example. His E benefits from Liandry's, but what point in a build would it be good to try to finish the item? His Q and R are AOE.
I don't really get Shurelias anymore, even though I build the Philo stone. Nor do I even bother with Shard. I find the Rejuv bead/fairy charm super helpful early and from there it's 520 gold to get a gp10 boost for the rest of the game. As far as getting early lane dominance, I like buying 'ruby stone + wards then upgrade to a ruby sightstone' over 'sightstone then upgrade to ruby sightstone' if I want the extra tank early.
It's usually still lane phase at this point and I start working on aegis next to have it mostly complete by the time we start team fighting, followed by locket.
Sure. But what's the point of that? If people can't take having their integer decremented or having their fancy borders taken away from them they shouldn't play ranked. If they take this whole "HIDE AS MUCH SHIT ABOUT PLAYERS ACTUAL PERFORMANCE AS POSSIBLE SO NO ONE GETS SAD" thing they've got going on a bit further they'll just end up Normals in the end.
Riot agrees with your build path. HoW is the new HoG.
I think it's a more interesting system for people who want to progress and improve their skill over time. I don't think Ranked should be tailored towards people who are getting worse. There's a reason elo didn't show for people below 1200.
Wolf Akela
Member
DoT champs imho. Malzahar dishes out metric tons of hurt with his E+Liandry. There's Teemo with his shrooms and Singed as a luxury item.
I take it on AP Kog too. AP ratio on his ult is too low to pump AP. I usually get Rylai on him anyway.
I don't know any champ who would even want to rush it. Earliest I'd get it is after tier 2 boots and a major item but that's only with Teemo.
Not that anyone plays her anymore but Cassiopia would like Liandry's too.
In fact I kind of want to play her again. Might give it a shot tonight.
Soyongdori
Member
What did they change this time?
The rank is still something they attained at some point, and the new ranking system makes promotion difficult enough that it is something earned. I don't think it's a big deal that the highest rank earned is what shows up on the profile page.
Best rule of thumb is to never rush it first.
As for what kits work with it, think of it this way: It's designed for sustained casters. Ones who can keep the burning effect going as long as possible. It works well early on Kayle, for instance, since she'll be doing damage at her Attack Speed (and her Q being a single-target spell that also slows so it maximizes every part of it). It (and Blackfire Torch from TT) work well on Singed, Brand, Teemo, etc. because they can keep it going for a few extra seconds merely due to how their kits work. The more consistent you are in dealing damage, the better Liandry's is, basically.
So, in regards to Rumble, his usual early build these days is Haunting Guise + Revolver + Sorc Shoes and then work on Liandry's + Rylai's.
On the tankier supports, I'm enjoying the Rejuv Bead + 2x Sight + 1x Vision + 2 Potions start and then building into Emblem of Valor for the sustain aura and then doing Locket over Aegis. I don't need Aegis until team fights and Locket, I feel, has better in-lane value (Health and CDR build options, basically). Basically getting more health in lane off Kindlegem + Sightstone/Ruby Sightstone.
Eh, I like the new system for that. If all the information presented is merely give people a number that means nothing about actual skill (yet is used as it) and they struggle with the idea of losing their hard work, might as well find ways to remove it.
Given a healthier competitive environment, it shouldn't matter. With the environment we do have, it should help. "Should."
It probably won't ;_;
It's probably the better route instead of Rageblade/Zephyr for boosting her E. I'd have to sit down and look at the numbers to see how everything pans out. I'd argue DFG over Deathcap, though, for an NLR item for bursting a single target. Plus, the CDR is amazing.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Wood league here I come.
LGIM throwing so hard. It will be a crazy comeback either way, Keyd winning from a 10K gold deficit or LGIM winning from with only 1 turret remaining.
Keyd's playcaller was reading the game far, far better than LG IM. They just made really quick, decisive, smart plays all game to make up for some inferior laning stage situations. Amazing game to watch though, I love me a good teamfight comp.
;___________________;
Yeah, I run that start with someone like Leona where I don't depend so much on mana regen and it's easier for them to poke at you. I basically think about if I'll be taking more poke or not to determine if I get a pink over green + 3rd pot. Another thing about the pink is that it allows you to really secure dominance in the lane if you can get an early lead.
Building Emblem first* then transitioning to Locket is something I'll have to try again, but I think that'll be more fluid on how I think the game is flowing. When building the Aegis now, I always get Emblem + health first, and usually 1shot the remaining recipe. I guess if at that point in the game I think it'll be lane phase longer I will build Locket then Aegis, otherwise Aegis for the team fights into Locket.
*with philo + sightstone before emblem.
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