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League of Legends |OT4| No Country for Old Karma

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dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
it's saved me a lot of times, it can help you get enough room to keep attacking while your teammates rush to save you. it's up to the player and the match, but outright ignoring a route just because it isn't optimal is kinda weak. people used to buy brutalizer before new black cleaver and haunting guise before liandry's existed, sometimes the early gamble pays off
you are listing power items. burta and guise were things you buy for short term power.

cutlass is not a power item. mf needs to be building attack damage to make her ult worthwhile. bloodthirster is power early and late for her. putting it off just hurts.
 

scy

Member
it's saved me a lot of times

And this is one of the biggest problems with people trying to analyze what's good or not. Just because something worked does not mean it's ideal or even good. A lot of things can work while still being bad.

Cutlass doesn't offer much of anything for a 1400g delay on a champion who has a clear power spike that relates to raw AD.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
Give in to the temptation.
GET AWAY FROM ME

And this is one of the biggest problems with people trying to analyze what's good or not. Just because something worked does not mean it's ideal or even good. A lot of things can work while still being bad.

Cutlass doesn't offer much of anything for a 1400g delay on a champion who has a clear power spike that relates to raw AD.
which is why I said it's up to the player/situation and that it's not ideal?

just don't disregard stuff without trying it, sometimes I see myself not hitting my nice point mid game so I just focus on making myself harder to kill until I get back on track. you can't wave your bf sword if you're dead
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
if you are behind you are not going to catch up by not building attack damage on MF.

bt into last whisper. the slow on bilgewater is not worthwhile enough to invest that way and you have no way to create distance even if you got the slow off. once you get hit and lose strut they will catch you anyways. best way to not get jumped on as an ad carry is being a threat and having good positioning.
 

IsayFever

Member
Bilgewater on MF and Ashe was done in alpha/beta, it's been proven for years, even after the rework, that it's a huge delay on a larger item and a waste o' gold
 

Pancakes

hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
v86vEHj.gif


this is like the complete summary of league of legends

Aaaaagh.
 

Boken

Banned
I don't know why you guys are so god damn punishing to "sub-optimal" ideas

theres no need to absolutely shit on somebody like that, youre making it sound like hes building a thornmail on MF so he can live longer in team fights. or like you know, building AP on a champion designed for crits and auto attacks. or say, building manamune on ashe because she needs more mana to spam spells

its nothing like that. at least cutlass has AD and lifesteal on it

need to stress, theres still no need to shit on people like that because there are two cases:
- if it really is a bad idea, then they will eventually recognise it. if theyre the kind of person who wouldnt realise how bad the idea is after multiple games, then they probably dont even care about your advice.
- now lets say the idea isnt so bad that its not obvious after multiple games, then theres even less reason to be so harsh
 

scy

Member
I don't know why you guys are so god damn punishing to "sub-optimal" ideas

Who's punishing him? He said it's good, he's told it's not, he defends it, there's a retort. It's a back-and-forth. If it's the sheer amount of people, oh well. My bad for chiming in then.

- if it really is a bad idea, then they will eventually recognise it. if theyre the kind of person who wouldnt realise how bad the idea is after multiple games, then they probably dont even care about your advice.

Fair enough.

- now lets say the idea isnt so bad that its not obvious after multiple games, then theres even reason to be so harsh

All the more reason for more people to say something then.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
its nothing like that. at least cutlass has AD and lifesteal on it
building these things is actually even worse on MF if it is anything but bloodthirster because then it becomes all you are building until way into the game.
I don't know why you guys are so god damn punishing to "sub-optimal" ideas
because they are bad. and being spread. the presentation of proper information is not a bad thing.
 

Boken

Banned
Imagine if zkylon built a tear on ashe a week ago because he thought ashe needed mana

imagine if subtle built ap on tryndamere two months ago because he thought it gave him so much sustain
 

zkylon

zkylewd
man front mission 1 is kicking my ass

I didn't remember it being this hard

You know you want me. Just give in. Its what we both want. We can be more powerful than you can imagine!
but will there be cupcakes?

I don't know why you guys are so god damn punishing to "sub-optimal" ideas

theres no need to absolutely shit on somebody like that, youre making it sound like hes building a thornmail on MF so he can live longer in team fights. or like you know, building AP on a champion designed for crits and auto attacks. or say, building manamune on ashe because she needs more mana to spam spells

its nothing like that. at least cutlass has AD and lifesteal on it

need to stress, theres still no need to shit on people like that because there are two cases:
- if it really is a bad idea, then they will eventually recognise it. if theyre the kind of person who wouldnt realise how bad the idea is after multiple games, then they probably dont even care about your advice.
- now lets say the idea isnt so bad that its not obvious after multiple games, then theres even less reason to be so harsh
that's alright, no need to defend me

I was just sharing something that's worked for me in the past, probably should've emphasized that and avoided this mess

Imagine if zkylon built a tear on ashe a week ago because he thought ashe needed mana

more like a month ago, the ultimate build... manamune+cutlass

iE1yVJ8vEY1nG.png


aram lol

Why is tear on Ashe bad?
not really bad, just takes a slot that isn't really used to its fullest, it's not like ashe has mana problems or spells that proc muramana (I think?) like ezreal, she's a straight out autoattacker like cait, so IE, BT, LW, PD, etc. are all better options.

I think they said genja's reasoning was like "we have a divecomp, I'm gonna be left to fend for myself and I'm gonna get instagibbed so I'll just do a shitton of damage with the few autos I manage to get", which is why he didn't get attack speed either.

I kinda can't imagine playing ashe without pd tbh

I tried to google "tryndamere wifebeater"
took me to the dungeon of 4chan
I stumbled upon this: Champion Sexuality

full of gems like this:
Lee Sin - I imagine Lee sin to be a very proficient lover with his heightened senses of touch and smell. Verdict: Romantic

i bring you back these goodies, neogaf
I like the irelia

and this makes me think a human-form orianna would be a really cool skin
 
I build Tear on ADCs in ARAM just so I can spam a lot. I dont need the MR from Chalice, and mana capacity is usually better than regen. It also builds into Muramana which can give 70AD overall just for 2100g. It's around the same AD you can get from IE, Sanguine and Entropy. It's also a great item for ADCs who are fine with AD stacking like Sivir and MF.

I dont get it on ADCs who dont have spammable pokes like Draven and Vayne.
 

Boken

Banned
not really bad, just takes a slot that isn't really used to its fullest, it's not like ashe has mana problems or spells that proc muramana (I think?) like ezreal, she's a straight out autoattacker like cait, so IE, BT, LW, PD, etc. are all better options.

I think they said genja's reasoning was like "we have a divecomp and I'm gonna get instagibbed so I'll just do a shitton of damage with the few autos I manage to get", which is why he didn't get attack speed either.
I'm not defending you, I'm defending society.

Genja's reasoning just goes to show that there are niche builds for specific situations and to shit on somebody for building something that is reasoned but that isn't the optimal damage build is just lunacy.

You have to at least show that the problem they are trying to address is not solved by their solution.
- Zkylon isn't saying, well shit, I need more damage, therefore the solution is cutlass
- he says, people keep diving me, so i buy cutlass to give me a self peel that has decent stats. How is saying stuff like he wasted 1400g even address anything (and is completely wrong btw). Sure, saying it delays his build or isn't slot relevant is good, but that stuff isn't so egregious that you have to take a dump on him and ignore his solution.
- it's like saying to Genja, wtf are you buying manamune, you would do more damage with phantom dancer instead. Even though he's trying to solve the problem that he is going to get dived

An example of addressing his problem:
- ok so people like to dive you, maybe you should stay at the mac range of your ultimate. Nobody can dive you when you're 1100 range away.

@sejuani skin. Is this real life?
 

scy

Member
I'm not defending you, I'm defending society.

Then I can make the same argument. My entire point was that too many people do something and find that it works and do a low level results-oriented analysis on it and claim that "it's good." Just because something worked does not mean it's actually good.

Genja's reasoning just goes to show that there are niche builds for specific situations and to shit on somebody for building something that is reasoned but that isn't the optimal damage build is just lunacy.

This isn't just about it not being the optimal damage build. This is about buying a 1400g item that gives you a 500 range 25% 2s slow on a character that has an 800 range 20-52% 200 AoE slow (though, granted, it's lost some of it's power with the slow field change).

It's just relevant that the timing of an early Cutlass (which is what's being discussed) is highly relevant on a character that sees a power spike early and is taken for that power spike. This is a character that is meant to be at max range for her ultimate and only after that's down is she really needed to be skirmishing. Getting an item early for that latter part is not worthwhile.

Edit: Put another way, it's the fact it's an early Cutlass rather than a Cutlass in general.

How is saying stuff like he wasted 1400g even address anything (and is completely wrong btw). Sure, saying it delays his build or isn't slot relevant is good, but that stuff isn't so egregious that you have to take a dump on him and ignore his solution.

Maybe "waste" is a strong word, sure, but it's a poor use of 1400g. Cutlass is not the best use of your gold despite it being cost efficient (essentially 2% free Lifesteal). And in context of your post, I don't really think you can get away with "and it's wrong btw."

And I can't speak for everyone else but I'm not ignoring his solution to his problem. I'm not dumb enough to think that he's getting a Cutlass because it's awesome for damage. I'm saying that what it does give is not worth the 1400g delay for her.

I do agree that the posts should have said more on that so that's on me for being terse. But, then again, his response was basically "don't shit on things you don't know" so eh.
 

BlazinAm

Junior Member
New Sejuani skin

Whoa. That is a skin.


I wish I had played better only 55% of farm and I was against a Quinn in Top for some stupid reason. Zephyr seems like a good item and then when into fights I wish I had gone for Hydra as a second main item, needed that dmg and life steal more than anything else. Is Zeke's Herald an item people would want to build on aatrox?
 

scy

Member
Zephyr isn't "bad" but it's more of a super-end game item that gets picked up. Getting it second isn't really the best way to get more power. Hydra shines when you're doing teamfights where the enemy is clustered but that doesn't really happen all that often.

And, no, Zeke's isn't something you should be building. It's a Support Aura item but it's not really that great right now.
 

IsayFever

Member
Aw fuck me, I just installed.

Probably asked 1 billion times, but any good supernoob tutorial youtube channels to watch?

There's a lot of good champion specific videos to be found, but as far as mechanics or map guides your best bet would probably be the General guides on solomid.net, or the map guides on lolpro.com
 

Boken

Banned
Aw fuck me, I just installed.

Probably asked 1 billion times, but any good supernoob tutorial youtube channels to watch?

I should make one of those
or at least a text guide

---
this is the best text guide ive seen in my 30s of googling
http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=25755

all the videos ive looked at are kinda crap, wow. this lady right now treats me like a kindergarten student.

----
something important that many guides seem to miss

Minion aggro mechanics:
They follow a priority list of targets:
1. Cries for help from a friendly champion
2. Closest enemy target

If you make an "auto attack" (which is the action performed when you right click on an enemy) on a champion - the champion will issue a cry for help. Every minion has an "aggro radius", which is the area in which it can hear cries for help from enemy champions. If a minion can hear a cry for help, itll start attacking you until a few seconds after you stop auto attacking the champion.

Tower Aggro Mechanics:
Priority list:
1. Cries for help from friendly champion
2. cannon minion
3. melee minion
4. caster minion

unlike minions, if you deal ANY damage to an enemy champion within the aggro radius of their tower, there will be a cry for help and the tower will attack you
 

Boken

Banned
We need more bears so we can have an ultimate bear team. =D
annie has a bear


dear neogaf, i have travelled far and wide in search of a website that tracks game length and can average them. i have not found what i was looking for, but i found a lot of fan art so here you go.


Grumpy Monkey showed us the evolution of Vi's design. She went from tough roller derby chick with power gloves to a street urchin from piltover who found awesome gauntlets to what you see today. I think seeing this evolution shows us that Riot generally gets it right.
Grumpy Monkey's pictures:
 
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