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League of Legends |OT4| No Country for Old Karma
- Thread starter kayos90
- Start date
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I'm up for it. As long as I'm on the same team as either Gamma, xcloser, or bind. They're excellent buffers for me.
huh
I just said I liked building it, I should've stopped there instead of arguing it's a good item to build (since I myself said it wasn't the best of ideas from the get go) and that's it.
it really is always my fault for not making myself clear :/
wow, that was so cool
I dunno why I don't like xpeke, for some reason he rubs me the wrong way
you're slowly turning into me...
my plan's working...
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Oh dear.
What?
PhillipCostigan
Member
Just had a pretty frustrating game.
I was playing jungle Cho. I was doing really well with ganks and farm, helping every lane. Unfortunately we had a Tryndamere who would only split, never group and just tower dive 5 people thinking he could kill them all.
We also had a Lux who was "drunk". Oh, and she was "support". Ran full AP runes, hardly bought a ward in the game and just ran into people and died. She kept trying to surrender, even though we were ahead. We also had a really bad Varus as out ADC who literally knew nothing about positioning, As someone who mained ADC for quite a while, and generally played ADCs with no inherent escape moves like Draven, Varus or MF, it was really painful to watch. Thankfully we had a really good Zed.
After losing quite a few fights in a row due to bad focus from my team and bad positioning, they over-stayed trying get our inhib. I killed their AP Yi (who was legendary at the time because fuck Yi) and made the call to go for Baron. We got it, killed the Cait who went solo to check it for whatever reaosn, and pushed mid. We took their inner turret then their inhib turret. We got their inhib just as a few of them spawned, and managed to win the teamfight there. Team wanted to go back but I made the call to keep going. we killed their Cait and Blitz that just spawned and got the nexus. Was a crazy push and my calls won it for the team. Our Zed was really fed too which helped and they focused poorly at the end. I was constantly on their Yi, not letting him get anything.
Felt good man.
I was playing jungle Cho. I was doing really well with ganks and farm, helping every lane. Unfortunately we had a Tryndamere who would only split, never group and just tower dive 5 people thinking he could kill them all.
We also had a Lux who was "drunk". Oh, and she was "support". Ran full AP runes, hardly bought a ward in the game and just ran into people and died. She kept trying to surrender, even though we were ahead. We also had a really bad Varus as out ADC who literally knew nothing about positioning, As someone who mained ADC for quite a while, and generally played ADCs with no inherent escape moves like Draven, Varus or MF, it was really painful to watch. Thankfully we had a really good Zed.
After losing quite a few fights in a row due to bad focus from my team and bad positioning, they over-stayed trying get our inhib. I killed their AP Yi (who was legendary at the time because fuck Yi) and made the call to go for Baron. We got it, killed the Cait who went solo to check it for whatever reaosn, and pushed mid. We took their inner turret then their inhib turret. We got their inhib just as a few of them spawned, and managed to win the teamfight there. Team wanted to go back but I made the call to keep going. we killed their Cait and Blitz that just spawned and got the nexus. Was a crazy push and my calls won it for the team. Our Zed was really fed too which helped and they focused poorly at the end. I was constantly on their Yi, not letting him get anything.
Felt good man.
PROGRAM_IX
Member
Bought her and had the MOST fun in a game despite multiple badness factors.
Costigaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan-!
Well yea you'd think he'd be shit ever since they nerfed him
I bought her for the heck of it. Ever since miss fortune fell out of favor I need a fallback ADC.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Quinn's awesome.
She's incredibly fun, and once you get to grips with her and stop playing her as a bottom lane ADC, she's really good. She bullies the hell out of everyone.
She's incredibly fun, and once you get to grips with her and stop playing her as a bottom lane ADC, she's really good. She bullies the hell out of everyone.
teams more stacked then dotagaf's IHs
difference is i dont save any of that stuff
That's only because you know me to be the keeper of the waifus
so basically i wont ever turn into you?
Sr Kitsune
Member
It means that, in case of emergency, you will become zkylon. If something ever happens to him.
Balance must be preserved, the waifus can't be without a keeper.
New Sejuani skin is awesome.
there can only be one zky
and there can only be one boko
but when the time comes, I shall pass on the torch
and boko shall take my place
no, actually, keep 'em coming (though last batch was all repeats for zky)
Fallen_Hero
Member
Nice inhouse games tonight GAF. I enjoyed them.
Fallen_Hero
Member
Game 1:
Game 2:
Game 2:
Game 1:
Game 2:
Yay! Stats!
Sr Kitsune
Member
I miss Lolking.
I don't think I can wait until they add latin servers in early July.
Does Elobuff support latin servers?
I don't think I can wait until they add latin servers in early July.
Does Elobuff support latin servers?
Do you work for elobuff
i dont really remember what happened during picks
I banned dray dray cause I don't think kayos can hold up against it
i banned ryze cause I didn't know where schmatt was going
i dont remember the third ban
we tried to set the teams up so everyone was in a role they were down with
I fped zac cause I bought him recently it wuz fun
um
zac works pretty good with a bunch of things
our comp was better than theirs
i thought to myself, hey it would really suck if they could follow up sej ult with morgana ult so I banned morg second game, drayvon again too. kiunch was playing morg before dats why
they played like a pokey disengagey compy but we could jump in ok
we talked a good amount both games on my team, I tried to show up bot a bunch because I kinda expected gamma to have dumps like a truck and dump on kayos but I didn't really force that, like I did it pretty organically I dunno if it was better for that. I think that the junglers I picked are pretty versatile and good, I didn't really pay attention to the rest of the picks.
we played pretty reactively, like I'd see where people were on the map and then think about objectives. i don't really remember much about these games though, but it was fun we do again
I banned dray dray cause I don't think kayos can hold up against it
i banned ryze cause I didn't know where schmatt was going
i dont remember the third ban
we tried to set the teams up so everyone was in a role they were down with
I fped zac cause I bought him recently it wuz fun
um
zac works pretty good with a bunch of things
our comp was better than theirs
i thought to myself, hey it would really suck if they could follow up sej ult with morgana ult so I banned morg second game, drayvon again too. kiunch was playing morg before dats why
they played like a pokey disengagey compy but we could jump in ok
we talked a good amount both games on my team, I tried to show up bot a bunch because I kinda expected gamma to have dumps like a truck and dump on kayos but I didn't really force that, like I did it pretty organically I dunno if it was better for that. I think that the junglers I picked are pretty versatile and good, I didn't really pay attention to the rest of the picks.
we played pretty reactively, like I'd see where people were on the map and then think about objectives. i don't really remember much about these games though, but it was fun we do again
Kane Zakharov
Banned
Don't think there's any specific time for when we play in houses.
Don't think ADCs are OP, but that's just me.
Wolf Akela
Member
He had a fair point though. Do we see any melee solo laner in competitive play that doesn't have a form of long range poke or sustain/shield? Only one that comes to mind is Singed. Bruiser items and bursters kept getting nerfed too.
i think they may have been drunk/mucking around/trolling
It's not necessarily a discussion about "ADCs are OP" but that "being ranged is better."
I've been through the rounds with this but cbb to type a new discussion so let me copy paste what i said
---
I believe his point is not that ranged ADC are overpowered, but that they seem to be the central tenet when Riot balance the game and as a result the metagame has revolved around them completely to the detriment of all other roles.
In a sense they do - no laner can actually stand up to a 2v1 lane. But that is fine because that is a numbers game. I think the extended point is that duo lanes should exist out of necessity - a rADC which is meant to scale amazingly should not be able to solo lane.
I also think the other point to make is that seeing supports all the time is ok - because somebody must fill the "5" position, but when every late game carry is a ranged ADC, it seems pretty lame.
By carry I do not mean "win the game". I define the "carry" position to mean the number one gold position - the champion that should receive the most gold this game because he/she will scale the hardest with gold.
The "carry" position is basically all the R ADC + karthus, ryze + melee carries + high scaling bruisers (e.g. jax). Nobody else really fits into this definition of carry position.
However, every other role + support cannot lane against R ADC and support AND the fact that melee carries suck - which incredibly limits the carry position and shoehorns it into always being fulfilled by an R ADC. This is a problem because R ADC differ much much less when compared to say an AP carry or a melee carry. MF, ez, cait, vayne and kog do have differences in their micro level mechanics, but on the macro level, they all deal damage at range, have the ability to deal plenty of auto attack damage, are squishy and must kite.
Playing a 2v1 as support + hyper melee carry that outscales the enemy R ADC should be viable to winning the game - but right now it just isn't.
there are several dangers to maintaining the status quo.
- the salient consequence is the entrenchment of the R ADC as the partner for supports and the entrenchment of R ADC as THE carry position.
- entrenched ranged carries ensure that all melee must be tanky and this makes balancing dangerous and fluctuating as the obvious response to high ranged damage is to make all bruisers godly tanky again which means we ride the buff-nerf rollercoaster again
- the creation of the dichotomy that ranged = damage and melee = tanky limits design space. why cant we have a ranged tank guys
Kane Zakharov
Banned
I was reading those and going "Man, I'm pretty sure I just read that."
I should read user names more often.
But, yes, the point isn't that "OMG ADCS OP" but that Ranged ADCs are a staple as opposed to it being Support + Hyper Carry of some kind (e.g., Support + Fiora/Jax/Aatrox). Someone will be your ticket to win for the long haul full build and it's just an assumed thing that it's a Ranged ADC rather than a Melee ADC (within exceptions, e.g., Ryze, Karthus, etc. though they pale in comparison to raw DPS of a 6-item ADC still anyway).
Now, that said, Riot's strategy currently seems more like that games should be ending before the late-late game becomes relevant. That games spike in action around mid-level timings with assassins (either AD or AP) with their first few big items or at the big ult levels. It's coming to the point that the "Melee ADCs" will most likely just end up being Assassins ala Kha'zix or Zed. Have them be your big mid-game option and Ranged ADCs as your late game one.
Edit: Whether or not this is fine for the game is another matter entirely. Personally speaking, I'm okay with the idea that "Melee ADCs" are just going to be different than "Ranged ADCs" in terms of viability. I just hope that this difference isn't "one is viable, the other is not." As boring as it would be for all Melee ADCs to basically just be Assassins, I'd rather have that then "just don't use them." Hopefully we see some things with the Master Yi rework that helps this out.
Who knows, maybe Season 4 will change up enough things where a melee hyper carry can work out.
I got super distracted.
I should read user names more often.
But, yes, the point isn't that "OMG ADCS OP" but that Ranged ADCs are a staple as opposed to it being Support + Hyper Carry of some kind (e.g., Support + Fiora/Jax/Aatrox). Someone will be your ticket to win for the long haul full build and it's just an assumed thing that it's a Ranged ADC rather than a Melee ADC (within exceptions, e.g., Ryze, Karthus, etc. though they pale in comparison to raw DPS of a 6-item ADC still anyway).
Now, that said, Riot's strategy currently seems more like that games should be ending before the late-late game becomes relevant. That games spike in action around mid-level timings with assassins (either AD or AP) with their first few big items or at the big ult levels. It's coming to the point that the "Melee ADCs" will most likely just end up being Assassins ala Kha'zix or Zed. Have them be your big mid-game option and Ranged ADCs as your late game one.
Edit: Whether or not this is fine for the game is another matter entirely. Personally speaking, I'm okay with the idea that "Melee ADCs" are just going to be different than "Ranged ADCs" in terms of viability. I just hope that this difference isn't "one is viable, the other is not." As boring as it would be for all Melee ADCs to basically just be Assassins, I'd rather have that then "just don't use them." Hopefully we see some things with the Master Yi rework that helps this out.
Who knows, maybe Season 4 will change up enough things where a melee hyper carry can work out.
You were supposed to be asleep dammit.
I do agree with the statement that ranged is better. I should be talking more about this but It's late here and I don't think I can properly discuss this topic at the moment.
I got super distracted.
it is a little lame however, that R ADC is almost always the meal ticket for your late game and is the position always paired with support
the meta also helps to enforce the status quo as:
- support + R ADC creates a lot of ranged harass that anything else would have pretty big issues obtaining cs
- the rise of the 2v1 lanes means that to stay relevant, your duo must be able to provide as much tower pressure as the opponents duo
so whether your lanes are 2v2 or running against a suicide lane, you'd want to run a R ADC
not sure how to shake it up, and I agree its a season 4 solution, but my preliminary thoughts are:
- create a new defensive item that is meant to lessen auto attack harass which either - benefits melee more (huge ramifications for 1v1 lanes) or blocks more ranged damage (huge ramifications for melee v ranged lanes, which is already precarious in mid). this item is inspired by stout/poormans. Maybe they can finally allow upgrades to dorans.
- buff tower hp (cos dey are paper right now) but also increase the AP to AA damage on towers so that AP have better on tower damage
the meta also helps to enforce the status quo as:
- support + R ADC creates a lot of ranged harass that anything else would have pretty big issues obtaining cs
- the rise of the 2v1 lanes means that to stay relevant, your duo must be able to provide as much tower pressure as the opponents duo
so whether your lanes are 2v2 or running against a suicide lane, you'd want to run a R ADC
not sure how to shake it up, and I agree its a season 4 solution, but my preliminary thoughts are:
- create a new defensive item that is meant to lessen auto attack harass which either - benefits melee more (huge ramifications for 1v1 lanes) or blocks more ranged damage (huge ramifications for melee v ranged lanes, which is already precarious in mid). this item is inspired by stout/poormans. Maybe they can finally allow upgrades to dorans.
- buff tower hp (cos dey are paper right now) but also increase the AP to AA damage on towers so that AP have better on tower damage
I don't agree with buffing tower HP.
Early game champs are slowly getting phased out right now. Only chance they have is try to end the game ASAP or sell all their items and stack defense to try and be useful.
I can get behind tower damage scaling a lot higher to clear waves faster though.
Early game champs are slowly getting phased out right now. Only chance they have is try to end the game ASAP or sell all their items and stack defense to try and be useful.
I can get behind tower damage scaling a lot higher to clear waves faster though.
you buff tower hp
buff ap damage to towers
that way R ADC do less damage to towers, but AP deal more. cos R ADC are so important to killing towers atm. gotta make R ADC less ubisoft
why would you scale tower damage, its perfect right now or else youd never get cs under tower.
i dont know what you mean by early game champs being phased out. we're all about the midgame right now
Wolf Akela
Member
I think she's very much competitive now. It's just that he hasn't been picked up by any popular streamer/tourney player. She feels fine as a solo laner or support.
I meant scaling tower damage. No change early, noticeable difference late. This way, teams dont depend on an adc poking the turret every wave. They will have to commit and risk getting dived on to get a turret. Or they take double the time to get a turret. This lets the defending team to go back to heal and come back to initiate if the pushing team is playing too aggressively for the turret.
My past 20-30games have been 30-60 minutes as of late. Lost a lot of games where we had a fed early champ like lee and panth but we couldn't finish the game in time and we got out tanked and damaged.
And isn't the whole tower taking argument about late game anyway. I can't see how a mid game adc without a major AS item can take towers that fast unless they are caitlyn or extremely fed.
And I really don't agree with the ap damage on towers. TF can kill towers in a span of 2-3 pick a cards. You really don't want that to get stronger.
Many ap champs also has the capability to instagib people. I don't think a champion like that should have the ability to take towers any faster than they do now.
I can get behind the idea if there is a sacrifice to that kind of power. Maybe get rid of some ap masteries, let it be a mastery itself or if it was a passive/active for an item.
Plus, Ryze will get left behind even more if they buff ap damage on towers.
I don't think she cuts it as a support, but she definitely works as a solo laner. I've even spotted her on several streams lately although she has never been player by the streamers.
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