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[Boken]

Spectated some Diamond level game with a Sejuani. I guess even people at high levels can have no idea what they are doing. It was the perfect illustration for why building stupid shit like CDR and Mob boots while ignoring mpen can turn you into one of the most worthless champions.

Here is a 2v1 gank on an Irelia. She has no idea they are there and there is nobody around to help her.

Sejuani goes in to catch her. Arctic Assault just to reach her and then uses Permafrost. The health bar of Irela will illustrate just how much damage that does, while Sejuani took a very short and simple burst from Irelia:

Sejuani and Shen together do almost no damage to Irelia. The only defensive item she has is a null magic mantle. She goes in on Sejuani and two ults come out to stop her from picking up a kill. A gigantic waste for Shen.

Sejuani was set up to win the game early on. Her team was way ahead on gold and she was raking it in.

But her team wound up getting crushed and even by mid game she was useless. Late game was somehow worse.

Tanks need to do damage. The goal of attaining CDR actually made Sejuani even less tanky. Frozen Heart is a joke with how much magic damage, true damage, and percentage health damage is around. Solari isn't really something that boosts your tank stats as much as you think either after its nerf. Mobility boots are usually not a good idea.

I'd like to subscribe to your on the road to pro newsletter. See you at mlg dimb

Your post just highlights why sej is poopy. Yes tanks need to do some damage. Sej has the unfortunate affliction of having to build damage items when xin and buddies can do whatever the hell they want and still threaten the adc


Chew is pretty cool
Hope this means they gonna make a new client soon

 

[dimb]

Really? How so?
Rylais Slows your target/targets
Liandrys procs off rylais
Sunfire keeps proccing while they are next to you
Golem allows you to keep up // Why wouldnt you buy Golem? You buy spirit stone early you will buy big belt. Mid to late game I'm sure you can come up with 600g to finish building Golem.

All the while giving you health. You are there to Crowd Control and let your team pick up the kills. I run it and I run it pretty efficiently

You already have slows for Liandry's. Sunfire is fine. Ancient Golem is only okay after you buy everything else, that guy shouldn't have bought it in his game. Rylai's is bad on her. Not enough gained from it. Too much AP and her AP scaling isn't that great.

Your post just highlights why sej is poopy. Yes tanks need to do some damage. Sej has the unfortunate affliction of having to build damage items when xin and buddies can do whatever the hell they want and still threaten the adc

You build health to do damage. The only "damage" item you are getting is Liandry's. Her core is a set of very desirable items. Xin is already falling off. You're being annoying Boken.

CHEW would be better if it did anything interesting. Rampage was a really bad game and it's worse now. It's sad that Rampage World Tour is 1000x crazier than a parody.

 

[Boken]

Why is damage in speech marks? It's not arguably a damage item, it IS a damage item.

J4, voli, xin, nasus are all better and they don't even need one damage item. Not only that, cdr is great on them and there are plenty of cdr+tanky items

Sej is like amumu but with a longer range initiate at the cost of doing less damage

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Easily countered by standard summoner spells. Also he's shit.

He is a piece of crap. Unless you're in super low elo. Then you can play sion mid and destroy face.

Sion mid use to be considered as one of the biggest solo queue carries. This was around 1.5 years ago where Sion's stun and shield both had 1.0ap scaling. He was able to farm 200+cs in less than 18minutes, buy deathcap+lichbane by 25ish minutes then roam with boots of mobility and one shot any character in the game.

He was also ungankable because popular junglers back then were things like skarner and udyr. He would just stun, pop his massive shield and run back to tower losing little to no hp. Riot soon nerfed his ratios, without even giving the community any time to adjust to the new ap carry and haven't touched him since.

Now with new characters and junglers with gap closers, his shield can be broken without even breaking a sweat.

Ya figured it was something like this. Bought a Mundo instead. Trying to learn that janglin' again.

 

[dimb]

Sejuani does close to as much or more damage than Amumu. Even if Despair was hitting a 4k HP target North Winds ticks for more. Her slow lets her keep enemies in her AOE. Enemies can distance themselves very easily from Amumu in bursts at the very least and avoid large amounts of his damage.

 

[zkylon]

man lately I just cannot win as anivia or ori. I've settled my four main mid champions to be lux, syndra, orianna and anivia but seriously I dunno why I just can't win as the last two.

also tried pantheon mid for the first time to counter a tf and it's like the man was built against him. I'm not really sure if his passive blocks tf's w (I think not but sometimes it felt like it did) but you just wreck him in lane and whenever he ults you ult.

 

[Ferga]

man lately I just cannot win as anivia or ori. I've settled my four main mid champions to be lux, syndra, orianna and anivia but seriously I dunno why I just can't win as the last two.

also tried pantheon mid for the first time to counter a tf and it's like the man was built against him. I'm not really sure if his passive blocks tf's w (I think not but sometimes it felt like it did) but you just wreck him in lane and whenever he ults you ult.

From experience, pantheon wins all the ap mids except for lux. You can't get close enough to lux to do damage.

Anivia, kind of the same but you can easily shut her down pre 6

 

[zkylon]

From experience, pantheon wins all the ap mids except for lux. You can't get close enough to lux to do damage.

yeah, I think it's a matter of patience and knowing you're gonna lose your early game if you're laning against him. like, I dove him and got first blood at level 2, he's ridiculously bursty early on and mids without armor runes just can't deal with it. just keep your cool, use spells to farm as you'd do with fizz or post-6 akali and you'll be fine. problem is that doing flash+w is just instagib with a 1000 range, no skillshots, no nothing, so it's a lot on the opposing mid not to give room for that.

I imagine syndra fares pretty well too since she has long range and doesn't need to stop to cast spells.

panth's not my usual choice for a mid laner, I like to play more passive and from a distance, but I may try him again.

I could probably try jayce.

Anivia, kind of the same but you can easily shut her down pre 6

yeah my "guide to counter anivia" is basically to put a ward at the enemy blue buff at minute 6.00 and just go steal it. it's the thing I fear the most as an anivia, losing blue buff is just 5 more minutes of shitty farming and it sets you back tremendously, way more than with lux or ori.

that and shove her pre-6 under her tower, like you said.

I think I need a better build path with anivia. I was doing catalyst into roa, chalice, deathcap, athene's, void staff, but I dunno.

 

[garath]

I just bought lulu.... whyyy.... I have so many supports already

Someone teach me. I want to learn the aphromoo ways of lulu support. I don't support often, but when I do, I want to be OP. Zyra is great but some comps I just get smushed.

 

[Ferga]

I imagine syndra fares pretty well too since she has long range and doesn't need to stop to cast spells.

I thought this too but it's actually a really easy lane to win because of her mana issues early on. Can easily kill her before level 3 and snowball off it.

 

[dimb]

try

Spoiler

yorick

mid

I just bought lulu.... whyyy.... I have so many supports already

But you bought a mid/top laner...

 

[NovemberMike]

Why is damage in speech marks? It's not arguably a damage item, it IS a damage item.

J4, voli, xin, nasus are all better and they don't even need one damage item. Not only that, cdr is great on them and there are plenty of cdr+tanky items

Sej is like amumu but with a longer range initiate at the cost of doing less damage

Nah, all of those champs need to build a damage item to be relevant. I'm not sure where this idea that zero damage J4 or Xin are real threats came from, they can potentially 1v1 someone because they won't die faster than the other person doesn't die, but in a team fight they will lack the ability to put down damage quickly and are basically just cc bots (although good cc bots). They actually have the same trick as Sejuani, where you build 1 damage item and all of a sudden you can't be ignored. Sejuani builds Sorc Boots, Liandry's and tank (and doesn't rush Liandry's you get Haunting Guise relatively early and upgrade in the mid-late game), J4 or Vi or whatever will do something similar.

 

[scy]

Really? How so?

Just to expand on this in a more general sense, it's a case of items that are good in theory but don't fit in terms of your gold flow and desired power curve (Ancient Golem, in this case). Or items that are good on paper but not quite in practice (Rylai's).

This is a pretty common problem for Spirit of the Ancient Golem in general. It doesn't fit builds very well as an early item compared to what other items do for your build and your relative power. It's why there's an emphasis on the core items (e.g., your first two).

And I wouldn't really just accept "I've used it and it worked so it's good" as a reason. Just because there's other factors as to why something worked. There's always something to question in a build, even when it did work. Did it work because of the item or in spite of? Was there another item that would have done the same but more effectively?

Nah, all of those champs need to build a damage item to be relevant. I'm not sure where this idea that zero damage J4 or Xin are real threats came from, they can potentially 1v1 someone because they won't die faster than the other person doesn't die, but in a team fight they will lack the ability to put down damage quickly and are basically just cc bots (although good cc bots).

Xin doesn't really need a damage item to be scary early-mid game to the ADC. He gets a lot of power from Three Talon Strike scaling off tAD instead of bAD and from his ASPD steroid. Him getting some CDR is his offensive stat, really.

Vi's case is that she got Elder Lizard. She didn't need an extra damage item on top of that. Nasus is always a threat due to Wither and the damage on his Q (as time goes on, anyway). He just needs to exist to be a threat.

If you're talking about late game relevancy (e.g., 40m+) then, well, yeah, they'll all need a damage item to stay relevant (again, except Nasus really). They all have a lot of strength out of their base stats and kits that they don't need a damage item for the early to mid game phase where you establish a lead.

 

[y2dvd]

Picking up Mao jungle.

2 stronk

 

[Wolf Akela]

Picking up Mao jungle.

2 stronk

Pair with a jungle Leona and get every lane fed.

Spoiler

Otherwise the two of you fall really behind

 

[dimb]

i see lane mao more than jungle mao right now.

 

[NovemberMike]

Xin doesn't really need a damage item to be scary early-mid game to the ADC. He gets a lot of power from Three Talon Strike scaling off tAD instead of bAD and from his ASPD steroid. Him getting some CDR is his offensive stat, really.

Vi's case is that she got Elder Lizard. She didn't need an extra damage item on top of that. Nasus is always a threat due to Wither and the damage on his Q (as time goes on, anyway). He just needs to exist to be a threat.

If you're talking about late game relevancy (e.g., 40m+) then, well, yeah, they'll all need a damage item to stay relevant (again, except Nasus really). They all have a lot of strength out of their base stats and kits that they don't need a damage item for the early to mid game phase where you establish a lead.

They start to fall off long before 40 minutes without items. By about 30 minutes, a full tank Xin or J4 or Vi will be not much more than a cc bot. The builds for most of these champs include at least a Brutalizer by about 20 minutes, similar in cost to a haunting guise and enough to keep their damage relevant to the late game (when they'll need to upgrade and probably grab another damage item).

Basically, Sejuani needing a haunting guise is completely analogous to the way the popular bruiser champs play now.

EDIT: Also, Dimb, the reason that gank didn't work wasn't because Sejuani didn't build damage, it's because neither Sejuani nor Shen built damage. Tanks need to be paired with damage in a gank, all that happened there was Irelia ignoring people that couldn't do damage and shitting out her own. The Shen was the one in the wrong there, he's less a tank than he is a split pusher and while he scales well with HP he needs attack speed as well, generally from a Trinity Force, Nashor's or a Zephyr (or even just a Stinger). As it was he was hard to kill (but not unkillable, nobody in League is unkillable) but couldn't present a credible threat.

 

[scy]

They start to fall off long before 40 minutes without items. By about 30 minutes, a full tank Xin or J4 or Vi will be not much more than a cc bot. The builds for most of these champs include at least a Brutalizer by about 20 minutes, similar in cost to a haunting guise and enough to keep their damage relevant to the late game (when they'll need to upgrade and probably grab another damage item).

Yeah, 30 minutes is probably more apt, not 40 minutes. That said, none of those get a Brutalizer out of the jungle. As a top laner, yes, but not really that common out of the jungle unless they get some early kills to themselves.

Then again, solo Queue is probably what we're discussing in which case, yeah, they probably get a Brutalizer.

Edit: Just to clarify something, I don't disagree that they need damage items to stay relevant as damage. I just don't think it's the best route for many of them to be taken in many cases. There's always exceptions (and then there's solo Queue). The bigger point here is that Xin, J4, Vi, etc. Junglers don't need a damage item early in their builds while others do.

 

[NovemberMike]

Yeah, 30 minutes is probably more apt, not 40 minutes. That said, none of those get a Brutalizer out of the jungle. As a top laner, yes, but not really that common out of the jungle unless they get some early kills to themselves.

Then again, solo Queue is probably what we're discussing in which case, yeah, they probably get a Brutalizer.

Not sure why we'd be talking about tournaments, the junglers there are running a lot differently than in solo queue. We've seen everything from guys that are practically trilanes to hardcore counterjunglers to more standard farm and gank styles. Pro games have nothing to do with the ladder and I don't think anyone here is asking for advice in how to play at the pro level.

 

[scy]

Not sure why we'd be talking about tournaments, the junglers there are running a lot differently than in solo queue. We've seen everything from guys that are practically trilanes to hardcore counterjunglers to more standard farm and gank styles. Pro games have nothing to do with the ladder and I don't think anyone here is asking for advice in how to play at the pro level.

I wouldn't consider playing with a premade as the same thing as solo queue.

 

[NovemberMike]

I wouldn't consider playing with a premade as the same thing as solo queue.

It basically is. I've yet to see an objective focused trilane in a premade.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Oh god Mundo is a delight

 

[scy]

Well, I more mean the kind of philosophy in item choices. In solo queue, you get selfish items because there's a lack of coordination. Things like a Xin coming out of the jungle with damage is a bigger deal here when there's some chaos on how peeling will go down. Engage/disengages are a lot more awkward here.

Honestly, the bigger takeaway is to just know how to read the situation so you know when a selfish item is ultimately the best thing for the team instead of something more team-oriented. Or when you can afford to grab a "luxury" item earlier to further establish a lead.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Mundo is a tanky who could snowball in a scary way. I've seen one who snowballed hard enough that he murdered a 1v4 just by sticking to them all day long.

 

[NovemberMike]

Well, I more mean the kind of philosophy in item choices. In solo queue, you get selfish items because there's a lack of coordination. Things like a Xin coming out of the jungle with damage is a bigger deal here when there's some chaos on how peeling will go down. Engage/disengages are a lot more awkward here.

Honestly, the bigger takeaway is to just know how to read the situation so you know when a selfish item is ultimately the best thing for the team instead of something more team-oriented. Or when you can afford to grab a "luxury" item earlier to further establish a lead.

That's not what we're talking about though. It's ok if you want to be a cc bot aura carrier, the fact that you don't deal damage won't be that big of a deal when you're buffing your team while ccing everything around you. You won't deal real damage though and it's really more of a season 2 thing.

Remember, we're talking about the difference between Sejuani and common bruiser junglers, not whether you should be a bruiser or a cc bot.

 

[NovemberMike]

Mundo is a tanky who could snowball in a scary way. I've seen one who snowballed hard enough that he murdered a 1v4 just by sticking to them all day long.

I think the hardest snowball is Sion still. A fed AD Sion can reliably 1v5 a full hp enemy team. IIRC there's actually a video of a Sion winning a 1v5 standing in the enemy spawn with the spawn turret hitting him.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Youtube comments on a video I just watched were arguing whether or not Silence was a CC.

silence is a cc ?

No ?

yes it is?

You know what CC means ?

CC means Crowd Control, a silence isn't a CC.

Yes, Silence IS a CC, check it in LoL wiki, type Crowd Control and it says every type of CC, including silence. ^^

 

[scy]

Remember, we're talking about the difference between Sejuani and common bruiser junglers, not whether you should be a bruiser or a cc bot.

The original comment was about Xin, J4, etc. not needing damage items. Which is still the case. They don't need them in the early game where as Sejuani has to get one. This isn't to say that Xin, J4, etc. don't benefit from one (or will eventually need/want one), just that they do a lot of damage before getting it. A zero damage item Xin, J4, etc. is a larger damage threat than a zero damage item Sejuani. With the exception of Nasus' Q, there's really no Jungler that can still be an end-game damage threat with absolutely no damage items.

And it's not about whether you should be a bruiser or a CC bot but about what provides the most value still. If you don't need an item at that point for your damage, there's no reason to get it. It's still about reading the situation to know when you need to get more damage or you can put it off for something else that lets you do what you need to do.

Edit: I just want to say Xin, J4, etc. one more time.

But, seriously, we're not really disagreeing here: The bruiser Junglers will eventually need a damage item because they will fall off. Their strength is that they just get a lot of their power from their kit/levels. They'll still eventually need an item so they can do damage. The tangent about solo queue/premades/tournament level is just me being dumb and forgetting what we're actually trying to get at.

 

[drawkcaB]

i see lane mao more than jungle mao right now.

Which is all sorts of awesome. Shame such a versatile champion has been pigeon holed into jungle only. I'm surprised that solo lane Maokai isn't popular in the competitive scene at all with the prevalence of 2v1 lanes.

 

[NovemberMike]

The original comment was about Xin, J4, etc. not needing damage items. Which is still the case. They don't need them in the early game where as Sejuani has to get one. This isn't to say that Xin, J4, etc. don't benefit from one (or will eventually need/want one), just that they do a lot of damage before getting it. A zero damage item Xin, J4, etc. is a larger damage threat than a zero damage item Sejuani. With the exception of Nasus' Q, there's really no Jungler that can still be an end-game damage threat with absolutely no damage items.

And it's not about whether you should be a bruiser or a CC bot but about what provides the most value still. If you don't need an item at that point for your damage, there's no reason to get it. It's still about reading the situation to know when you need to get more damage or you can put it off for something else that lets you do what you need to do.

Wait, what? Early Sejuani is massively more of a threat than early Xin or Jarvan. Their % armor shred is less meaningful in the early game, Xin's gotta start by going E for the slow or he wont hit his Q and J4 doesn't have a reliable slow (2 seconds of 15% slow on a 20 second cooldown lol). Xin's going to be doing about 30 extra damage for the three attacks, J4 is going to have a small nuke and hit for 8% hp once, Sejuani's going to come in harder (she basically has Vi's Q except without the charge time), hit harder and CC harder. Without any items.

It isn't until the mid game where Xin and Jarvan have maxed two skills and their armor shred is more meaningful that Sejuani needs damage items to keep up, but when she gets damage items she'll out dps either of them with damage items due to the strong AOE she has, and her initiate is better than either of theirs. She isn't played at the pro level because she doesn't really fit into their game plan (she doesn't dive as well and she's got a weaker early jungle that leaves her open to being counter jungled) but I'm not sure I get your complaints.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Mundo is a tanky who could snowball in a scary way. I've seen one who snowballed hard enough that he murdered a 1v4 just by sticking to them all day long.

Thanks to Burning Agony, jungling is a pleasure unlike the torture of my Sejuani experience during her free week. And then ganking is hilarious with cleavers all over the place. And then you have ~5000 hp endgame and can ult and run straight past their frontline with Sunfire+maxranked Agony up to smash their carries, and if they focus you it will take forever to bring you down and your team wins.

Really enjoyed it today.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Which is all sorts of awesome. Shame such a versatile champion has been pigeon holed into jungle only. I'm surprised that solo lane Maokai isn't popular in the competitive scene at all with the prevalence of 2v1 lanes.

It'll happen when the pros make it happen. If I'm correct in assuming, Yorick wasn't even in the meta until The Rain Man lost to one while playing as Teemo solo top. Better to just hope that Maokai becomes FotM like AP Trynd.

 

[dimb]

Wait, what? Early Sejuani is massively more of a threat than early Xin or Jarvan. Their % armor shred is less meaningful in the early game, Xin's gotta start by going E for the slow or he wont hit his Q and J4 doesn't have a reliable slow (2 seconds of 15% slow on a 20 second cooldown lol). Xin's going to be doing about 30 extra damage for the three attacks, J4 is going to have a small nuke and hit for 8% hp once, Sejuani's going to come in harder (she basically has Vi's Q except without the charge time), hit harder and CC harder. Without any items.

 

[scy]

...but I'm not sure I get your complaints.

Wait, what complaints? I'm just pointing out that Xin, J4, etc. don't need an early damage items due to what their kit provides them in the early-to-mid game points; Sejuani will be picking one up at that mid-game transition period. She'll be more AoE damage in the end too as that's her entire design role.

Edit: It's not even a "problem" that she gets one. It's essentially a core item for her anyway. She'll still get one before many of the other bruiser Junglers. Which isn't a better or worse thing either, just stating what the situation is.

I'm really not sure what the point is anymore.

 

[dan2026]

Oh God I am loving Galio so much.

Eyebeams all day everyday.

 

[y2dvd]

i see lane mao more than jungle mao right now.

While lane Mao is probably viable, his ganks are so damn godly. He is arguably the best pre-lvl 6 ganker in the game.

 

[NovemberMike]

Run the numbers and get back to me. Xin Zhao is a champ that feels really powerful because all of his abilities have great visual and sound effects that really drive home what you're doing, same with J4. Sejuani can kind of just feel terrible, her large model obscures just how ridiculously long her Q's range is, her passive's slow doesn't have a strong visual effect and the low % means that it doesn't scream "they can't get away" until you realize that it's never going away and the W deals a surprising amount of damage but it never bursts so you really don't notice it. She's a relatively poor duelist and she doesn't have the crazy mid game that Xin does but her early ganks are absolutely terrifying and she has an amazing late game.

 

[AcridMeat]

Oh God I am loving Galio so much.

Eyebeams all day everyday.

Yeah he's super fun. Just wish he wasn't so mana hungry. It's why I prefer Cho.

 

[LCGeek]

Yeah he's super fun. Just wish he wasn't so mana hungry. It's why I prefer Cho.

Cho mid all day everyday!

 

[Merovin]

yeah, I think it's a matter of patience and knowing you're gonna lose your early game if you're laning against him. like, I dove him and got first blood at level 2, he's ridiculously bursty early on and mids without armor runes just can't deal with it. just keep your cool, use spells to farm as you'd do with fizz or post-6 akali and you'll be fine. problem is that doing flash+w is just instagib with a 1000 range, no skillshots, no nothing, so it's a lot on the opposing mid not to give room for that.

I imagine syndra fares pretty well too since she has long range and doesn't need to stop to cast spells.

panth's not my usual choice for a mid laner, I like to play more passive and from a distance, but I may try him again.

I could probably try jayce.


yeah my "guide to counter anivia" is basically to put a ward at the enemy blue buff at minute 6.00 and just go steal it. it's the thing I fear the most as an anivia, losing blue buff is just 5 more minutes of shitty farming and it sets you back tremendously, way more than with lux or ori.

that and shove her pre-6 under her tower, like you said.

I think I need a better build path with anivia. I was doing catalyst into roa, chalice, deathcap, athene's, void staff, but I dunno.

Ultimate build path for Anivia:

Tear, boots, Catalyst - RoA, upgrade boots, Liandrys done.

Then the obvious deathcap, void.

 

[Ashhong]

Do you guys even get to upgrade your arch angel staff in your average game? I get year first item on most of my ap champs now and have never gotten to that point. I use skill after skill but it just doesn't get there. The only reason I get tear first is for the mana now. I can't remember the last time I ran out of mana after starting tear

 

[LogicStep]

I downloaded the game and it's updating at the moment. I might not be able to play before I get home from work at around 10:30 pm. I just read the whole op, good stuff. Is the learning curve huge for this game?

 

[Ashhong]

I downloaded the game and it's updating at the moment. I might not be able to play before I get home from work at around 10:30 pm. I just read the whole op, good stuff. Is the learning curve huge for this game?

yup. You can learn the basics and get a feel down pretty quickly, but theres a high skill cap.

 

[kayos90]

The Dunk Squad? The Dunk Squad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g9XZQttjc-g

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Do you guys even get to upgrade your arch angel staff in your average game? I get year first item on most of my ap champs now and have never gotten to that point. I use skill after skill but it just doesn't get there. The only reason I get tear first is for the mana now. I can't remember the last time I ran out of mana after starting tear

I can on Soraka and Kayle. On Soraka it's actually easy b/c Infuse is free and you have to Starfall all the time. On Kayle I have to remember to randomly Righteous Fury while running back to lane.

 

[FYC]

I downloaded the game and it's updating at the moment. I might not be able to play before I get home from work at around 10:30 pm. I just read the whole op, good stuff. Is the learning curve huge for this game?

Yeah I kind of want to try this, I have DOTA2 and played a couple of matches but alllllll my friends play LoL and they're either burnt out on DOTA2 or don't like it

 

[scy]

On Kayle I have to remember to randomly Righteous Fury while running back to lane.

While this is true (+ constant Q harass, E to harass/farm), I'm not entirely sure why you'd get a Tear on Kayle to begin with.

I mean, I guess Manamune/Muramana Kayle works so there's that.

 

[LuuKyK]

I downloaded the game and it's updating at the moment. I might not be able to play before I get home from work at around 10:30 pm. I just read the whole op, good stuff. Is the learning curve huge for this game?

When I started (recently), I played some matches in the Twisted Treeline (3x3) to get how the basics worked. But yeah sooner or later you will have to try the normal matches and the only way to learn it is watching some videos and playing really.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

11/3 as Quinn mid. So good.

 

[Subtle]

I hate supports who don't ward brush. Ashe+Janna against Caitlyn+Thresh and they wonder why I have such a low CS -.-.