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League of Legends |OT4| No Country for Old Karma
- Thread starter kayos90
- Start date
- Status
Oh shit, this killed me
Terbinator
Member
Get the 326s. Any diver between those and 314 is cancer.
i know, i was so confused.
It happens, just fight through it, try different things, watch some streams, maybe read a guide on your champ or matchups. Also playing with different people sometimes helps too, give you fresh perspectives and such.
After diving back into League of Legends after a long stint with Dota 2 has giving me a whole new perspective on how Riot has done some great things with this game. Before I left I was heavily invested with LoL and probably sunk about 300$ with cosmetics which I still love.
Coming back one of the things I missed so much was one of the things friends complained about the most who left for Dota 2 the stale pub meta. Besides bottom a lot of these lanes and jungle were a solo experience, I missed the 1v1 aspect of mid/top even the duo bottom. Your skill shots can be spammed, laning and winning lane felt rewarding and like you solely didn't depend on others. I always feel like my skills can shine and I am not affected as much by teammates interaction. While playing in dota I felt lanes and outcomes were so predictable and dependent on other teammates. These days most games I play I can tell who's going win just by picks they got 2 supports a strong carry good mid and semi compared to our 1 support and a carry that's also late game that can't out carry theirs, if our team doesn't happen to play to a aggresive game where we pressure their carry WE LOSE. I always feel like the League meta is predictable in what you are up against, but what you actually care about is that lanes fights are dynamic through numerous skill shits and the unpredictably comes from the jungler.
Coming back one of the things I missed so much was one of the things friends complained about the most who left for Dota 2 the stale pub meta. Besides bottom a lot of these lanes and jungle were a solo experience, I missed the 1v1 aspect of mid/top even the duo bottom. Your skill shots can be spammed, laning and winning lane felt rewarding and like you solely didn't depend on others. I always feel like my skills can shine and I am not affected as much by teammates interaction. While playing in dota I felt lanes and outcomes were so predictable and dependent on other teammates. These days most games I play I can tell who's going win just by picks they got 2 supports a strong carry good mid and semi compared to our 1 support and a carry that's also late game that can't out carry theirs, if our team doesn't happen to play to a aggresive game where we pressure their carry WE LOSE. I always feel like the League meta is predictable in what you are up against, but what you actually care about is that lanes fights are dynamic through numerous skill shits and the unpredictably comes from the jungler.
Interesting perspective. And yeah, I can imagine that many people love the lane duelling that the pub lol meta brings. I have to admit it's pretty damn fun to dodge skillshots and own people straight up in lane. In terms of pub set up in dota, a suicide solo against a safe tri lane is going to be the shittiest game play for the suicide laner. It's honestly just no fun and you do it in the hopes that you win. Pub games should generously be designed with enjoyment in mind, when your only objective can be to win, you set yourself up for a lot of frustration.
I find it interesting though that despite 2v1 being 60% of the lane set up in competitive play that it hasn't infiltrated pub meta more. I think part of is it is that the lol community is so young in comparison to the Dota community that shifting from the first real meta we've ever had would be pretty tough. Like forgetting a first love.
The LoL community is younger but honestly I feel like Dota is almost the old boys club at this point and its infiltrated Dota 2. From cosmetics to the lack of surrender system. Also the community has shown to adapt and change on LoL prime example is the surrender system. Valve says the surrender system is no fun for the people who are stomping but after 2800 games of you being stomped and stomping, both are just as bad for me personally. I get annoyed at people defending and I honestly just want to move onto the next game. After a shit ton of games it is not fun on either side. So far with my foray back into League the surrender system is used on the stomps and even if its 5 kills people play on knowing gold loss in not on death and knowing my ADC has much carry potential as theirs so we play on. It feels to me the community itself has properly learned how and when to use it. where as in dota Anti Mage isn't out carrying this PL thats already way ahead 20 minutes in.
At the end of the day I might have issues with how Riot is handling champions and even runes, but I honestly think they add so many more dimension to game itself. So much more I can say about LoL and Dota where both should really learn from each other. Maybe I met angry at the twisted psychology between RP and champions but it that shit works on me haha, but it doesn't change the fact LoL fundamentally is a great game.
Wolf Akela
Member
ARAM again AP Janna, AP Lulu and AP Karma.
Couldn't even push a tower. Waves keep getting wiped out and Janna just shields the tower.
Couldn't even push a tower. Waves keep getting wiped out and Janna just shields the tower.
PhillipCostigan
Member
heh
The LoL community is younger but honestly I feel like Dota is almost the old boys club at this point and its infiltrated Dota 2. From cosmetics to the lack of surrender system. Also the community has shown to adapt and change on LoL prime example is the surrender system. Valve says the surrender system is no fun for the people who are stomping but after 2800 games of you being stomped and stomping, both are just as bad for me personally. I get annoyed at people defending and I honestly just want to move onto the next game. After a shit ton of games it is not fun on either side. So far with my foray back into League the surrender system is used on the stomps and even if its 5 kills people play on knowing gold loss in not on death and knowing my ADC has much carry potential as theirs so we play on. It feels to me the community itself has properly learned how and when to use it. where as in dota Anti Mage isn't out carrying this PL thats already way ahead 20 minutes in.
At the end of the day I might have issues with how Riot is handling champions and even runes, but I honestly think they add so many more dimension to game itself. So much more I can say about LoL and Dota where both should really learn from each other. Maybe I might be angry at the twisted psychology between RP and champions but it that shit works on me haha, but it doesn't change the fact LoL fundamentally is a great game.
Suicide lanes and trilanes Dota has the extra meta game dimensions. On a professional level this translates well because of choice and quality of play. Suicide laning and trilaning is awesome to watch and a see how a pro team handles and plays it together. You are so right in a pub you get put in that situation and it just escalates into frustration because all of it depends also on how your teammates are playing and what heroes they even picked.
PorcellainThrill
Member
Not having a pause option killed so many LoL games for me, someone dcing in late for 2 minutes costs you at least your entire base.
Wolf Akela
Member
DiaryGAF,
Friend of a friend invited me for a normal 5s. I was "OK!".
Game had bad signs when our Ryze didn't connect for the first 10-15 mins, but they didn't have a jungler. I went mid against Diana and it felt too easy? Something was up. She let me harass all day by tumble dodging her Qs. I sent her home 3 times. Garen had to move to mid to help but it didn't really have any effect on me. He wasted waaaaaaaaaaaay too much time hiding in the bush.
She somehow got really fed off elsewhere and even maxed Mejai. But still, I didn't feel threatened at all. Garen and Tryn would dive me a lot but they were easy to kite. I managed to keep tumble dodging ults and Diana's pull. Tryn tried splitpushing a lot and was doing real well with it. We had a really good support so we just killed him.
Got to the lobby and checked their stats. No wonder. Average of 150 wins on the enemies, which explained how their general play didn't feel good. Garen told me how difficult it was to get to me. They even asked me for advice (runes/build/mastery), which never happened before. I just told them they should have picked up Randuin/Frozen Heart, that Diana could have played more aggressively in lane, and that they should have warded.
Still, it gives a perspective on how much I've come along in terms of experience. I initiated pings for objectives and teammates gladly followed. I dunno I just felt happy I could teach people.
Friend of a friend invited me for a normal 5s. I was "OK!".
Game had bad signs when our Ryze didn't connect for the first 10-15 mins, but they didn't have a jungler. I went mid against Diana and it felt too easy? Something was up. She let me harass all day by tumble dodging her Qs. I sent her home 3 times. Garen had to move to mid to help but it didn't really have any effect on me. He wasted waaaaaaaaaaaay too much time hiding in the bush.
She somehow got really fed off elsewhere and even maxed Mejai. But still, I didn't feel threatened at all. Garen and Tryn would dive me a lot but they were easy to kite. I managed to keep tumble dodging ults and Diana's pull. Tryn tried splitpushing a lot and was doing real well with it. We had a really good support so we just killed him.
Got to the lobby and checked their stats. No wonder. Average of 150 wins on the enemies, which explained how their general play didn't feel good. Garen told me how difficult it was to get to me. They even asked me for advice (runes/build/mastery), which never happened before. I just told them they should have picked up Randuin/Frozen Heart, that Diana could have played more aggressively in lane, and that they should have warded.
Still, it gives a perspective on how much I've come along in terms of experience. I initiated pings for objectives and teammates gladly followed. I dunno I just felt happy I could teach people.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Enemy left Elise open after bans and I was first pick.
Hehe.
That poor, poor Jayce.
Hehe.
That poor, poor Jayce.
I'm still somewhat confused on which items to go for with support. I usually start faerie charm, 2 pots, and 3 wards. Then philo stone, sightstone, and the boots with cooldown reduction (forgot the name). After this, it gets a little blurry and I usually improv. What do you guys suggest? I know it depends on the game, but if I could have a basic guideline to gauge off of that would be great.
I would go for an Aegis --> Bulwark if your Jungler is not building it
Otherwise go for a Locket.
Also a good option to finish Shurelias.
Boots are preference but I find myself preferring either a defense boot(tabi or mercs) or the Mobility boots
I have seen some KR supports buy Tear on him to get his max mana up for his spell costs and shield but
It is a good idea to keep 1 slot for pinks at all times. I usually keep 2 pinks on me, that is enough to counterward the next objective.
Dont forget Oracles if you are in a position to start roaming and clear out the map.
It occasionally happens in yoloqueue that you just get rich and in that case I would consider Glacial Shroud into IBG or FH depending on your needs.
Otherwise go for a Locket.
Also a good option to finish Shurelias.
Boots are preference but I find myself preferring either a defense boot(tabi or mercs) or the Mobility boots
I have seen some KR supports buy Tear on him to get his max mana up for his spell costs and shield but
It is a good idea to keep 1 slot for pinks at all times. I usually keep 2 pinks on me, that is enough to counterward the next objective.
Dont forget Oracles if you are in a position to start roaming and clear out the map.
It occasionally happens in yoloqueue that you just get rich and in that case I would consider Glacial Shroud into IBG or FH depending on your needs.
Thank you! I will test some of these out next time.
Mister Negative
Member
Who should have first dibs on Aegis, the support or the jungler?
I mean surely it depends on who is tankier/built to initiate but someitmes both are tanky and sometimes neither are tanky.
I guess in a situation like Leona supp Trundle jungle you'd give it to the leona right?
anyway I was watching voyboy's stream last night and he was playing on his smurf as toplane Zac. he pulled off some amazing play which made me remember that zac was on sale so then I bought him. Guess I have to learn zac now.
I mean surely it depends on who is tankier/built to initiate but someitmes both are tanky and sometimes neither are tanky.
I guess in a situation like Leona supp Trundle jungle you'd give it to the leona right?
anyway I was watching voyboy's stream last night and he was playing on his smurf as toplane Zac. he pulled off some amazing play which made me remember that zac was on sale so then I bought him. Guess I have to learn zac now.
Like all things it's situational. If the enemy team has a high output of magic damage it's usually better for the jungler to grab it because they will finish it first. In most situations the jungler will be better served grabbing Aegis/Bulwark. Sometimes it makes sense to just build other things and tell your support to grab it though. Bulwark is less than ideal on Trundle tbh, but again, it depends on composition of the enemy team. It's not bad to have two people build it even in certain situations.
None of this really matters because after the patch the item will change completely.
Mister Negative
Member
Oh god the music.
Edit: 30 chapters of this?
RIght, of course. I still don't quite get the nature of the changes to the item, I'm sure I'll get it when it reaches live. The only consequence I see, currently, is one less option for either the support or jungler after Locket gets built. For me, it used to be, "Okay, this guy is building Aegis, I guess I'll build locket."
I was 0/4 against an Aatrox by the 15 minute mark in my last game of the night before bed. I was so embarrassed, I thought I knew how to play Vlad but I clearly need more practice. Glad it wasn't a ranked game.
I ended up 6/7/20 or so though so it wasn't too terrible (our katarina carried so hard, it was glorious). I do SO MUCH BETTER as support or mid or even ADC since I get the role more often. I need to buckle down and demand top more so I'm not such a waste when I need to be there
I ended up 6/7/20 or so though so it wasn't too terrible (our katarina carried so hard, it was glorious). I do SO MUCH BETTER as support or mid or even ADC since I get the role more often. I need to buckle down and demand top more so I'm not such a waste when I need to be there
Vlad sucks the first few levels and Aatrox has a huge powerspike at level 3. Vlad also is notoriously bad at 1v1ing. He doesnt burst and most players seem to understand when it is time to leave. Most kills as Vlad come from you using TrollPool to make them waste an R or due to jungler.
Did u get itemization to counter him, like Armguard? What did you start with?
Did u get itemization to counter him, like Armguard? What did you start with?
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
The way to play Vlad top is
get spell vamp then
spam all the things.
Also, keep E stacks at 4 so you get double damage and 32% extra hp regen and healing (at max level).
get spell vamp then
spam all the things.
Also, keep E stacks at 4 so you get double damage and 32% extra hp regen and healing (at max level).
Never forget that the playstyle by matchip can vary highly and sometimes, you have to be very passive and just farm and poke until your jungler comes around. Some matchups you own, some you suck. And some, you just don't know how to handle yet.
The biggest mistake of mine was taking my e at 2 instead of my W (even though i didn't mean to). I took boots to better dodge the sword laser thing. He got 3 first (I helped leash and he didn't cause I was Blue side) and he blew me the f*ck up. I just didn't know that much damage was possible at lvl 3. I was crushed, and he was starting to snowball.
My build...lol. I felt so useless I built armguard...then proceeded to build stuff like Randuin's, Ruby Sightstone, Ninja Tabi... I stacked HP and armor and just switched between farming/pushing my lane, warding (I warded more than our support, part of the reason I like being support is because I don't trust anyone else to ward at all), and ulting for Kat during teamfights. I was making the best of a bad situation, but it was still bad. He didn't even bother with MR or anything (which was a mistake because of Kat).
Let me reiterate how good this Kat was. By the time I was 0/4, she was like 8/1 and i think she was supposed to be facing a toon she is not good against in mid (AP Yi? Or maybe it was Lux...one of the two, stuff blurs late night). Vlad ult + Sej ult is apparently very nice setup for Kat in teamfights also, and Alistair didn;t hurt either. She ended up with 20+ kills and would have probably gotten more if I hadn't "last hitted" some of them in TFs casting whatever was off CD.
And as bad as I was doing in my lane, he only took 1 tower, then I took one back pretty quick. I just felt kinda weasel-y having to basically turn around if i saw him coming and I was alone/not at my turret. My team was all really nice or I probably would have been miserable, but them being nice and me sucking made the embarrassment worse.
Edit: Feeling better though, got to play Mid for the first time in a few days and CRUSHED a Khaz mid while repping my Ziggs and his Snow Day skin. It got so bad that the enemy jungler Vi would come for a gank and I'd end up just chasing her back to the turret too. 7/0/8 at the end. I love Ziggs so much, easy farming and easy harass.
PhillipCostigan
Member
And then you get Kassadin in an ARAM and it's all ok
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Solution: Build spellvamp first and get movement speed runes.
Vlad is probably the best candidate for spell vamp items because it works so well with his Q and E. With stacked E you'll be getting a lot of health back and you will become very hard to push out of lane since you can just steal all the hp back from minions or whoever your opposition is.
Movement speed runes because Vlad's spells are short ranged and if everyone is faster than you then you lose out on the ability to engage/chase and kite enemies.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Don't know why lolcounter shows Kat as a counter for Lux.
When Kat ults, hit W to absorb the damage, snare her with Q, put E under her feet and smash her with R and follow up with Ignite. Anything less than full health and she'll be vaporised.
Just make sure you take a step away from Kat so you can aim Q properly.
When Kat ults, hit W to absorb the damage, snare her with Q, put E under her feet and smash her with R and follow up with Ignite. Anything less than full health and she'll be vaporised.
Just make sure you take a step away from Kat so you can aim Q properly.
Anybody can contribute to lol counter
Kat has pretty high potential against a lot of skillshot champions though
She doesn't have to ult, she can e you to dodge a spell and w sidestep to dodge the follow up and continue farming. With her weakened w this isn't as effective though
Kat has pretty high potential against a lot of skillshot champions though
She doesn't have to ult, she can e you to dodge a spell and w sidestep to dodge the follow up and continue farming. With her weakened w this isn't as effective though
The thing about Kat v basically every skillshot champion is that ... well, it's a skill matchup. The Skillshot-based champion has a pretty high skill floor to get a good matchup. But once you get there, it's basically 50-50.
Edit: Also, no Kat will just ... ult you with your tricks up. Kat for most matchups will play bait things out and play reactively otherwise.
You really have to be in the right state of mind to play the game. Learned something pretty important yesterday regarding real life two minutes into the game and ended up going 0/8.
Also item build for Janna? I'm rushing Reverie, then Sight stone and then Aegis if the jungler didn't get it
Also item build for Janna? I'm rushing Reverie, then Sight stone and then Aegis if the jungler didn't get it
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Sightstone math
Sightstone gives higher effective gold generation because of the free wards.
Philostone gives 5 gp/10, Pick gives 4 gp/10
Sightstone gives 2 wards(max) per 3 minutes which comes to 8.3 gp/10
Ruby SS gives 3 wards(max) per 3 minutes which comes to 12.5 gp/10
Always SS first, then gp/10. The Pick or Philo is for the advanced items it builds from, which for me make Philo rarely ever a buy as on Tanky supports you can grab other HP items or resists to buff yourself out(Locket, Aegis), and on caster supports I favor Pick as the eventual mana regen and cdr from nomnomicon is king.
Not to even mention that the 180 then 360 extra hp gives you a large advantage in all-in's compared to passive regen on Philo and small AP on Pick.
Sightstone gives higher effective gold generation because of the free wards.
Philostone gives 5 gp/10, Pick gives 4 gp/10
Sightstone gives 2 wards(max) per 3 minutes which comes to 8.3 gp/10
Ruby SS gives 3 wards(max) per 3 minutes which comes to 12.5 gp/10
Always SS first, then gp/10. The Pick or Philo is for the advanced items it builds from, which for me make Philo rarely ever a buy as on Tanky supports you can grab other HP items or resists to buff yourself out(Locket, Aegis), and on caster supports I favor Pick as the eventual mana regen and cdr from nomnomicon is king.
Not to even mention that the 180 then 360 extra hp gives you a large advantage in all-in's compared to passive regen on Philo and small AP on Pick.
Yea, I can tell when a Kat is smart just because she will wait for knockups/stun to go off on other ppl before she starts her ult. It doesn't actually sound hard to do but I see so few Kats do it that it is almost a surprise when it happens.
It's more because supports buy a Faerie Charm to start with a lot for the extra bit of MP/5. Ruby Crystal start as support is usually unfeasible, you'd have almost no wards or sustain to harass with. In a vaccum or with enough gold for one over the other on your b you def want Sightstone, that's usually what I try to rush first.
aram doesnt count
RE: the dorans shield vs kindlegem vs sightstone vs philo first arguement
It really depends on how aggressive you want to be in lane and in the game, from descending agression levels
-dorans shield is mostly for shitting on people in lane, and you will want to extend the laning phase as long as you can because you need to take advantage enough to offset putting yourself behind on item build
-kindlegem gives you tanky stats for cheap (relative to sightstone) and the cdr is amazing on supports. it quick builds into reverie or locket so you can force advantageous engages and teamfights really early. this is a better choice for initiator supports like leona and alistair. you have to force the teamfights or else the aoe utility is wasted and you may as well buy a sightstone as vision benefits people passively. make sure you still buy some wards.
-sightstone is the all-round safe option as it gives some tanky stats with vision
-philostone first is the most gold effective, but you must aim to play the long game and keep it for at least 15 minutes - you should aim to extend the game by that amount
just because you start faerie charm doesnt mean you have to rush philo though
The last time I played Kat v Lux I was laser babe.
If you have decent control of your skillshots you can handle her pretty easily.
Drop E over a large range of creeps she would have to jump to, throw Q. She jumps into the E field, which then got popped and then she took the passive enhanced auto.
When she gets 6 you need to keep her poked down so that her ulting is suicide.
Once you are 9 and have chalice you can waveclear from range and make her life miserable.
Just call her roaming on the chat and ping persistently and you are golden.
This should not effect your starting items. Faerie Charm goes into Morellonomicon. With melee's I had been trying flask starts. If you feel you have strong early domination chances then you can just buy a single mana pot. Charm takes ~3min to restore the same amount of mana and you can afford 2 extra green or a pink ward with the starting gold.
If you have decent control of your skillshots you can handle her pretty easily.
Drop E over a large range of creeps she would have to jump to, throw Q. She jumps into the E field, which then got popped and then she took the passive enhanced auto.
When she gets 6 you need to keep her poked down so that her ulting is suicide.
Once you are 9 and have chalice you can waveclear from range and make her life miserable.
Just call her roaming on the chat and ping persistently and you are golden.
This should not effect your starting items. Faerie Charm goes into Morellonomicon. With melee's I had been trying flask starts. If you feel you have strong early domination chances then you can just buy a single mana pot. Charm takes ~3min to restore the same amount of mana and you can afford 2 extra green or a pink ward with the starting gold.
nobody should stand near their creeps against lux, just saying
what happens if she jumps on you when you throw your E
then uses the increased speed from W to dodge your Q?
what THEN
I have had that happen against a Kat. You throw W + Ignite immediately then auto her. She will either blow flash or die.
thats so crazy it might just work
but if it didnt you just wasted your ignite and she will just pot back up
I'm just going by what the high elo streamers seem to be doing. 90% of the games when I tune in they have the Philo stone and get SS next. Shur is still a pretty popular pick.
I personally go Charm + 2 greens + pink + 2 HP pots. I use the 1 min ward for "brushchecking" more or less, seeing when if/they set up wards on their side or possibly faking out their own pink if they have it. Then my own pink removes the ward they place in our bush, which makes it much easier for me to land Nami's Q or Zyra's E for harass. It varies depending on the support I take and what I build outside of Sightstone almost entirely depends on team comp and skill, but I can def see the appeal of Philo if your carry goes back early and your options are limited.
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/665905660/2060159
madlife goes dorans shield first
THE GOD HAS SPOKEN
infact, imma repeat myself because too many people are building philo first and then suddenly their team starts fighting dragon and they are weak as hell
RE: the dorans shield vs kindlegem vs sightstone vs philo first arguement
It really depends on how aggressive you want to be in lane and in the game, from descending aggression levels
-dorans shield is mostly for shitting on the adc in lane, and you will want to extend the laning phase as long as you can because you need to take advantage enough to offset putting yourself behind on item build but damn that adc will be hurting
-kindlegem gives you tanky stats for cheap (relative to sightstone) and the cdr is amazing on supports. it quick builds into reverie or locket so you can force advantageous engages and teamfights really early. this is a better choice for initiator supports like leona and alistair. you have to force the teamfights or else the aoe utility is wasted and you may as well buy a sightstone as vision benefits people passively. make sure you still buy some wards.
-sightstone is the all-round safe option as it gives some tanky stats with vision
-philostone first is the most gold effective, but you must aim to play the long game and keep it for at least 15 minutes - you should aim to extend the game by that amount
just because you start faerie charm doesnt mean you have to rush philo though
madlife goes dorans shield first
THE GOD HAS SPOKEN
infact, imma repeat myself because too many people are building philo first and then suddenly their team starts fighting dragon and they are weak as hell
RE: the dorans shield vs kindlegem vs sightstone vs philo first arguement
It really depends on how aggressive you want to be in lane and in the game, from descending aggression levels
-dorans shield is mostly for shitting on the adc in lane, and you will want to extend the laning phase as long as you can because you need to take advantage enough to offset putting yourself behind on item build but damn that adc will be hurting
-kindlegem gives you tanky stats for cheap (relative to sightstone) and the cdr is amazing on supports. it quick builds into reverie or locket so you can force advantageous engages and teamfights really early. this is a better choice for initiator supports like leona and alistair. you have to force the teamfights or else the aoe utility is wasted and you may as well buy a sightstone as vision benefits people passively. make sure you still buy some wards.
-sightstone is the all-round safe option as it gives some tanky stats with vision
-philostone first is the most gold effective, but you must aim to play the long game and keep it for at least 15 minutes - you should aim to extend the game by that amount
just because you start faerie charm doesnt mean you have to rush philo though
I havent really watched streams lately because the only ones i like to watch are Alex Ich and Scarra. The former streams during working hours and the latter too late at night to stay up for now.
As far as watching the LCS it seems most every support has Tier 2 boots, Ruby SS, and Pinks at 25 minutes. If the game is super tilted then the ahead support might have a Philo on top of that. I realize yoloqueue is different from 5v5.
Dorans Shield as a first buy with more wards on Sona has felt pretty legit.
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