Support NeoGAF

[Sr Kitsune]

"I dont always bait fights for my jungler,
but when I do, I die because my jungler has already left"

This happens to me a lot. ):

I usually tell my jungler to don't gank me, unless I'm pushed to tower.

70% of the times my jungler comes to gank me when my lane is even, I screw it and nothing good comes out of that gank.

81 LP, in S2, +25, +26, +30, so far in my first three games since being placed. I'm a bit nervous. And Ahri is carrying me, no deaths in silver yet

 

[Blizzard]

Not only am I doing badly in ranked today and having ragers, but when I got a Kat vs Lux matchup, the game 100% lagged out (reconnect wouldn't work, reconnect from client wouldn't work, had to totally kill and restart).

*edit* Thankfully, so did 1-2 of the other team.

*edit again* Third game I've seen thrown in the last week or so by people who refuse to push an inhibitor when the lane is open, or a tower as a group of 5 when the other team is on the defensive. They troll surrender voted, trash talked all game, intentionally delayed it to try to get more items, refused to group, had the support sitting bot lane alone autoattacking minions, etc. "We're not losing anytime soon" etc.

Guess what, after letting the other team catch up for 20 minutes while refusing to move together, they lost!

I know I'm not a great player, but I truly, truly do not understand the mentality behind people who refuse to go for inhibitors. Are people honestly just trying to throw, or do they just want the game to last longer so they can get more kills? Do people not realize that if you kill an inhibitor, the other team can be put on the defensive because super minions push?

 

[Mothman91]

Maybe you should expand on your junglers. J4 was my main but it's permabanned here, so I picked up Hecarim and Nasus. I'll eventually get Zac. I've been seeing a lot more Hecarims lately too.

Yeah, I've semi practiced Elise, but she's really high skill cap. Nasus, I've tried once/twice and he's farely easy to play. I see lots of Vi's out there so she might be the next champ I pick up.

 

[bjaelke]

Draven Sightwards. Maybe people will buy wards now.

I quite like the Soraka ward's placement animation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzGfWQPT4BY

 

[Saprol]

There goes the HTML in friends lists. Although apparently not the chat stuff yet.
RIP joke status. Didn't even last 24 hours.

 

[Boken]

I quite like the Soraka ward's placement animation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzGfWQPT4BY

its a shame that we cant have new sounds as part of the ward placement

(the ward placed noise is very important)

 

[Boken]

Now, let's put this thread on a good note; let me tell you two must-haves for Season 4 to ship successfully in my mind;

We're going to significantly improve, and ultimately fix, jungle and support gold flow. I feel this is one of the most painful areas of League, and one that can be fixed. A lot of the satisfaction in League is growing in power over time, getting items, and transitioning from early to late game with items. It's definitely a problem that 2/5 of players don't get to do this.

Season 4 changes will address this problem, and very likely throw balance into a tailspin for preseason. Eggs, omelettes, etc. We'll work hard to get that fleshed out and tuned before S4 starts properly.

Wards and the map vision system need to be overhauled. This is part-and-parcel with the above as Support gold largely suffers due to ward gold burden, but there are a multitude of other problems like snowballing, few real interesting ward decision-making opportunities, and few people involved with the vision game. Details have to wait, but the new system will address these issues.

if their solution is that everybody starts with a ward skill - ala dawngate, i quit.

 

[bjaelke]

Hunter's Machete for support players.

Reworked Clairvoyance.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Sightstones become the only ward sources.

Oracles is more expensive / works like Sightstones.

Clairvoyance CD turned way up; now reveals all enemy champions and the caster within range

Gold from main monsters vastly increased

yeah random ideas idk

 

[Saprol]

if their solution is that everybody starts with a ward skill - ala dawngate, i quit.

Time to add that Tactician role deep in support mastery tree. Gold for being in range of a minion killed by an allied champion.

 

[Leezard]

I think they might introduce a limited number of wards like dota.

 

[ThroneZwei]

if their solution is that everybody starts with a ward skill - ala dawngate, i quit.

No, he leads on to say that there's little warding decisions(Thanks to the plethora of wards). So 'strategic warding' sounds something like they'd say. If anything, it means they'll limit the amount of wards available.

 

[brian!]

ive always liked that but iunno how that would work with all the booshes

 

[Boken]

yeah, brush means high # wards are pretty important.

so idk, limited wards + brush bomb items like we have in dominion maybe.

but then not really, cos pinks give vision. and doto wards are 4x as powerful as leeg wards.

 

[brian!]

they should put little telescopes around the map and then champs can stand around them and look through them for vision
but like only the champ looking through can see and they have to feed their team info, or tell them to wait for their own goddam turn

 

[Boken]

And they have to pay 20g for each look

 

[Ragnamith]

*edit again* Third game I've seen thrown in the last week or so by people who refuse to push an inhibitor when the lane is open, or a tower as a group of 5 when the other team is on the defensive. They troll surrender voted, trash talked all game, intentionally delayed it to try to get more items, refused to group, had the support sitting bot lane alone autoattacking minions, etc. "We're not losing anytime soon" etc.

Guess what, after letting the other team catch up for 20 minutes while refusing to move together, they lost!

I know I'm not a great player, but I truly, truly do not understand the mentality behind people who refuse to go for inhibitors. Are people honestly just trying to throw, or do they just want the game to last longer so they can get more kills? Do people not realize that if you kill an inhibitor, the other team can be put on the defensive because super minions push?

I've spend whole of this season climbing from silver 5 to silver 1 and the majority of my lost games have been people throwing away objectives (and eventually the game) in the mid-game.
The moment the laning phase ends people just dont seem to think about what theyre doing any more, so many people just walk back to a random lane to push without thinking of the teams objectives or where the enemy might be. Pretty damn frustrating. I used to try and explain my team the current objectives but constantly typing, trying to convince people that probably wont even read what you're saying gets really tiring

 

[Leezard]

People not going after objectives really is something typical of lower level games. A stomp game can turn into a loss when people are fishing for kills only for 20 minutes longer than they should.

 

[Boken]

I've spend whole of this season climbing from silver 5 to silver 1 and the majority of my lost games have been people throwing away objectives (and eventually the game) in the mid-game.
The moment the laning phase ends people just dont seem to think about what theyre doing any more, so many people just walk back to a random lane to push without thinking of the teams objections or where the enemy might be. Pretty damn frustrating. I used to try and explain my team the current objectives but constantly typing, trying to convince people that probably wont even read what you're saying gets really tiring

A reason why some people are stuck in silver is because they suck at deciding to take objectives

Don't waste time explaining, just ping like mad and go there yourself

 

[Blizzard]

Thanks for the kind words. I'm kind of depressed at not being more consistent personally. I did finally end with a win. Master Yi didn't even type at all in ranked lobby, and I have no clue what was going on in the laning phase but it started 7-0. Master Yi top, Ezreal jungle, Sona AP Nidalee bot, AP Corki mid. Killed nexus in under 28 minutes thankfully, before they caught up.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

why is every Vayne on the other team a Miami Heat starter, and every Vayne on my team coming off the bench for the Wizards?

 

[KiwiLannister]

why is every Vayne on the other team a Miami Heat starter, and every Vayne on my team coming off the bench for the Wizards?

Probably the nba 2k rubber band ai.

Saw the free champs this week, excited to try them out since Elise, Xin Zhao, Riven and Leona were all champs I was very interested in trying.

Does anyone have some tips on playing low mobility champs? I've been playing Jax/Tryndamere/Jarvan/Renekton predominantly and they all have some way of moving quickly to escape ganks etc. I played a game last night as Kayle and basically just fed (it was a 1v2 top lane and I'd never played Kayle before so it was to be expected I guess) and usually when I play Ryze mid I struggle. I suppose I'll just practice against bots but it's frustrating to play a low mobility champ, especially when the enemy can out range you.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Whoa Ryze buffs?

 

[Ragnamith]

Whoa Ryze buffs?

You mean whoa Katarina buffs?
Current PBE has this:

Death Lotus [ R ] -Now deals 400/550/700 (+3.75*AD) (+2.5*AP) (up from 400/500/600 (+3*AD) (+2*AP))
Death Lotus [ R ] - Duration is now 2.5 seconds (up from 2 seconds)
Death Lotus [ R ] - Cooldown is now 60/52.5/45 Seconds (down from 60/55/50)

Higher scaling, more base damage, lower CDR
I understand a longer duration of her ult gives the enemy more time to CC her and it takes Katarina longer to get her full ult damage out there, but does it balance out a base + scaling + cdr buff?

from www.reignofgaming.net

 

[Leezard]

You mean whoa Katarina buffs?
Current PBE has this:


Higher scaling, more base damage, lower CDR
I understand a longer duration of her ult gives the enemy more time to CC her and it takes Katarina longer to get her full ult damage out there, but does it balance out a base + scaling + cdr buff?

from www.reignofgaming.net

It's definitely a nerf for early levels. You have the same base damage but longer duration. I guess it makes her a bit weaker early game while stronger late game.

 

[Wolf Akela]

You mean whoa Katarina buffs?

Nope.

Ryze

Base Health increased to 400 from 360
Base Movement speed increased to 340 from 335
Base armor increased to 15 from 11 ( armor per level unchanged )
Desperate Power ( R ) now grants 80 movement speed at all ranks, up from 60/70/80

 

[Diprosalic]

do ward skins actually exist anymore? i have never seen one outside of the halloween ones everybody had a while back.

edit: oh i see.

 

[bjaelke]

do ward skins actually exist anymore? i have never seen one outside of the halloween ones everybody had a while back.

Most of them only existed on a rental basis, so they got phased out eventually. The new skins are permanently unlocked.

 

[Ferga]

Just watched a god like nami. Safe to say she carried that entire game.

Some of those bubbles were blowing my mind. I was backing out of some kills but then BAM! Passive speed from E then max range bubble where the tip just touches them.

Had to double take some of those bubbles. They were insane.

Nami mechanics

 

[PROGRAM_IX]

Just watched a god like nami. Safe to say she carried that entire game.

Some of those bubbles were blowing my mind. I was backing out of some kills but then BAM! Passive speed from E then max range bubble where the tip just touches them.

Had to double take some of those bubbles. They were insane.

Nami mechanics

I tried her out ages back and found her bubbles very hard to land, but bought her with IP the other day and oh mannn the potential plays are great. Need to get competent enough for ranked. Suggested build anyone?

 

[Boken]

I tried her out ages back and found her bubbles very hard to land, but bought her with IP the other day and oh mannn the potential plays are great. Need to get competent enough for ranked. Suggested build anyone?

luxury items:

 

[PROGRAM_IX]

luxury items:

I knew the Nami love was strong here. Is this also on Probuilds?

 

[Ferga]

oracles should be up 25mins+ on all supports. I rather complete map control than a aegis/locket.

 

[PROGRAM_IX]

oracles should be up 25mins+ on all supports. I rather complete map control than a aegis/locket.

The vision game is a valuable one indeed, but I find warding is suicide for me after about 25 minutes. :/ And then people rage because there are no wards. Or they rage because I tried to ward and died.

Spoiler

This conversation is reminding me why I stopped supporting all the time in the first place. >.<

 

[Boken]

supporting is about sacrifice

 

[Diprosalic]

its a shame that we cant have new sounds as part of the ward placement

(the ward placed noise is very important)

ward placed sound should be a huge cheer "you're awesome". that might get people to use them.

 

[Ferga]

SG Udyr ward placement sounds are awesome

Best skin in game

 

[PROGRAM_IX]

supporting is about sacrifice

I'm cool with that, but it seems like I make the sacrifice and get nowhere with it. I just want to improve. >.<

 

[LogicStep]

Man I suck with Tryndamere And he looks like such a strong and fun character. I've tried top and jungle with him and I'm just not getting it. When he's geared up it's easier but early game it's hard. I'm not sure I'm playing him correctly. Keep rage maxed for the crit, use the spin to run away or catch up. Heal not sure when to use it since it doesn't heal for much and there goes all my rage and crit. Any tips?

 

[garath]

I'm cool with that, but it seems like I make the sacrifice and get nowhere with it. I just want to improve. >.<

When you get to a point in the game where you can (and will be) one shot by one of the carries, don't ward by yourself if you don't have an accurate sense of where the entire enemy team is. Go with the team, ward where the team goes. If the team is just farming, pair up with one and ward around them. Or better yet, state you want to ward baron and get one or two teammates to go with you.

In a close game, picking a support off alone can be a big momentum shift. If nothing else, you're giving more gold to the enemy carry.

If you watch a higher elo game, you'll almost never see a support wandering around alone. They're either with the team or with another member of the team. If they do go off alone they generally have a sense of where the enemy team is (spotted 3 bot and 1 top etc etc). And they ward well ahead of them in bushes.

I know it's harder in Silver. Team likes to farm by themselves in lane even after the laning phase is over and no vision anywhere or they like to group up mid even if there's objectives in other lanes. Sometimes you can direct, sometimes you can't as support. But it's worth the time and effort when objectives are available to group up and ward some key places.

Really imo, in mid game it should be the jungler placing a more risky ward or two solo if the team is lane farming as they're generally more tanky and have an escape or two. Still not wise to go facechecking fog of war when the entire enemy team is MIA just for a ward but you get my point.

 

[PROGRAM_IX]

When you get to a point in the game where you can (and will be) one shot by one of the carries, don't ward by yourself if you don't have an accurate sense of where the entire enemy team is. Go with the team, ward where the team goes. If the team is just farming, pair up with one and ward around them. Or better yet, state you want to ward baron and get one or two teammates to go with you.

In a close game, picking a support off alone can be a big momentum shift. If nothing else, you're giving more gold to the enemy carry.

If you watch a higher elo game, you'll almost never see a support wandering around alone. They're either with the team or with another member of the team. If they do go off alone they generally have a sense of where the enemy team is (spotted 3 bot and 1 top etc etc). And they ward well ahead of them in bushes.

I know it's harder in Silver. Team likes to farm by themselves in lane even after the laning phase is over and no vision anywhere or they like to group up mid even if there's objectives in other lanes. Sometimes you can direct, sometimes you can't as support. But it's worth the time and effort when objectives are available to group up and ward some key places.

Really imo, in mid game it should be the jungler placing a more risky ward or two solo if the team is lane farming as they're generally more tanky and have an escape or two. Still not wise to go facechecking fog of war when the entire enemy team is MIA just for a ward but you get my point.

Yeah, pretty much the Silver problems. If I'm with my team over Skype it's fine, I can communicate problems like lack of wards, but in dread queue it can be very trying. To be clear though, when I was talking about sacrifice just there, I didn't mean diving into fog of war and dying in the process of warding. I meant submitting to the rage of my teammates.

 

[Boken]

Man I suck with Tryndamere And he looks like such a strong and fun character. I've tried top and jungle with him and I'm just not getting it. When he's geared up it's easier but early game it's hard. I'm not sure I'm playing him correctly. Keep rage maxed for the crit, use the spin to run away or catch up. Heal not sure when to use it since it doesn't heal for much and there goes all my rage and crit. Any tips?

what makes it feel hard early game?

are you on na or euw?

 

[garath]

Yeah, pretty much the Silver problems. If I'm with my team over Skype it's fine, I can communicate problems like lack of wards, but in dread queue it can be very trying. To be clear though, when I was talking about sacrifice just there, I didn't mean diving into fog of war and dying in the process of warding. I meant submitting to the rage of my teammates.

Ah hehe. Well there will be no rage if you don't die!

 

[PROGRAM_IX]

Ah hehe. Well there will be no rage if you don't die!

Until someone else, with tons of gold, dies alone in their jungle, and whines about no wards. It's pretty much a catch-22 of not being strong enough to ward alone, and not wanting to drag someone away from farming to ward. I guess I'll try to err on the side of staying alive.

 

[Edwardo]

Man I suck with Tryndamere And he looks like such a strong and fun character. I've tried top and jungle with him and I'm just not getting it. When he's geared up it's easier but early game it's hard. I'm not sure I'm playing him correctly. Keep rage maxed for the crit, use the spin to run away or catch up. Heal not sure when to use it since it doesn't heal for much and there goes all my rage and crit. Any tips?

He's great, I love playing as Trynd. What items have you been making with him. Generally, it's Statik Shiv and then Blade of the Ruined King. On my first back, i'll buy an avarice blade and just farm farm farm. I try to avoid fighting outside of laning as much as I can until I get at least those two items. When I play him top, I just stay up there and push as hard as I can to draw the enemies away from my team. Your spin + flash + ult should be more than enough to get you out of any sticky situations. With a full rage bar, there shouldn't be anyone on the other team who can beat you 1v1.

What summoner spells are you using? I tend to go with Exhaust and Flash for top lane. W + Exhaust can pretty much guarantee the enemy not escaping and granting you a kill. If the other team has some heavy CC, going with Cleanse instead of Exhaust is nice. I've seen people use Ghost instead of Flash, but I honestly feel like Flash is more useful.

Save your heal until after you ult. That extra hp can do wonders, especially if you are either trying to escape, or if you are fighting and need some health to survive until your lifesteal gets going.

Also, early on in lane, a crit or two can put you ahead of your lane opponent. Try to get a couple autoattacks in here and there while youre csing. It can catch them off guard, and will either net you a kill or put them on the defensive.

 

[garath]

Until someone else, with tons of gold, dies alone in their jungle, and whines about no wards. It's pretty much a catch-22 of not being strong enough to ward alone, and not wanting to drag someone away from farming to ward. I guess I'll try to err on the side of staying alive.

Definitely. Staying alive > placing that one ward. If someone is dumb enough to try and free farm in an empty lane with no vision around them then that's on them. It's a team responsibility to ward, even if it's just giving the support protection to place those wards. They shouldn't even be farming alone without vision so it behooves them to escort a support for some warding.

It will not stop someone going top on the enemy side farming away and getting 4 man ganked then complaining there's no wards. That's just silver. But if the support isn't feeding kills for no reason then there's hope.

 

[PROGRAM_IX]

Definitely. Staying alive > placing that one ward. If someone is dumb enough to try and free farm in an empty lane with no vision around them then that's on them. It's a team responsibility to ward, even if it's just giving the support protection to place those wards. They shouldn't even be farming alone without vision so it behooves them to escort a support for some warding.

It will not stop someone going top on the enemy side farming away and getting 4 man ganked then complaining there's no wards. That's just silver. But if the support isn't feeding kills for no reason then there's hope.

Hope, the greatest of all treasures.

I'll try the whole 'don't die' thing out when I get back to ranked. Hopefully this week. Thanks for the advice/reassurance that it's not just me.

 

[dimb]

As long as you ward every brush on your way to where you want to go it isn't super dangerous.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Until the brush you were gonna ward actually had 5 enemies clumped together.

 

[Boken]

employ safe ward practices and ward over the wall/extend range with the wall