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League of Legends |OT4| No Country for Old Karma
- Thread starter kayos90
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Legato.Reborn-
Member
Have you had your first all losses in match history yet?
So Riot is ranked 3rd best medium size company to work for. I bet they are. Getting paid while getting fuck all done must be damn sweet. I kid. Well, no not really.
I wish I had a job...
i really cant tell if you are, because people at riot actually work incredibly hard and long hours.
I think the problem is that they just need more staff due to how much the game is growing, but they're very pick with who they hire.
I bought Fiora. Please don't judge me.
:/ why would you do that - and i played her a hell of a ton when she came out
ThroneZwei
Banned
I think the issue is that they expanded too fast. They opened in what, 5-7 different territories this year alone? They wore themselves thin.
That and well, they need to stop hiring artists and hire more game balancers. It's nice you can crank out 4 summer skins, but if your balance sucks then it's pointless.
I actually believe they do. It however doesn't mean they work efficiently. Look at what Valve's been able to do with the DotA2 client in a short time compared to Riot. It's night and day. Casters ask for the ability to draw on the screen? There within a few months. Riot's been talking replays since I started playing at the end of Season 1. Best part of replays once we get them? Won't be as good as Valve's - I guarantee it.
Article says they have ~850. Let's assume about 80% (which is insane) are support staff of various types, administrative assistants, network/IT, etc. That's 170 people working on a game which frankly doesn't change much. Treyarch, for comparison, has about the same number of people working on game content and they fart out a "new" CoD every two years. So they have the same amount of people working on LoL than other AAA devs do working on theirs, and this is all they're able to do? Holy Shit.
ThroneZwei said:
I actually disagree. They should try a smaller balance staff. Give 1-3 people with a solid, mostly unified vision for what LoL should be balance wise and let them go to town. Get too many people into something like that and you end up with a camel when you wanted a horse. Expanding too fast does seem likely, but it probably affected the content and balance staff tremendously. My old company grew too fast and whenever we went on hiring sprees, work flow suffered tremendously because management refused to but enough resources into improving procedures. We were bought out three months ago, ramped up again, but this time we had all the procedures already in place. The end product we deliver to our clients is night and day compared to the old stuff, frankly trash.
remember that dota is build on source, which has been built over years of work.
lol has been built off really archaic tech - which im sure makes it hard for them.
you make an interesting point though "wont be as good as valve's - guarantee it", because i really dont like how you cant rewind while spectating in dota.
also amusing that you bring up "Look at what Valve's been able to do with the DotA2 client in a short time compared to Riot." because how slooooooow valve has been patching dota2 recently. I guarantee that we will see much more new shit after world's than dota did.
"new" cod - exactly. as much work goes into making a new cod as it does into making a new champion.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
I play with a few Rioters.
They are CONSTANTLY at work.
like, "hey man want to aram?"
"sry at work"
11pm
Valve recreated all the odd quirks in the WC3 engine to make a faithful transition (in other words, added archaic tech into Source). I doubt this makes a difference.
DotA2's client lets me choose any match being played and search through them based on a variety of criteria instead of five matches and whatever my friends are playing. It lets me watch competitive matches in-game lets me choose a variety of voice streams.
That's so worth rewinding to me it's not even funny.
At least the LoL community gives a shit and let me circumvent Riot's laziness with sites like LoLnexus.
Feel free to correct, but balance patches in DotA have always been slow because it's all on IceFrog's schedule. And it's not like Riot's faster pace makes for a more balanced game by any stretch, so moot point.
And this sounds actually reasonable to you? There's no point in continuing this discussion if that's what you honestly believe.
Uh... thats not how engines work :/
those are just "game mechanics", not archaic tech. besides, they have not properly recreated "all the odd quirks", rly.
yeah the spectate infrastructure is great and pretty damn amazing, but my point is that the spectator engine itself - its not perfect, and even riot's implementation has things it does better than it - another example - separate UI for the spectator so that you dont have this massive ingame UI hiding everything.
its not that - they still are trying to update the game to reach parity with dota1 right now, and the last hero release has been a long, long time ago. half the hero design has already been done by dota 1 - so wtf is up with valve?
what that was a joke
Again I believe you, just like believed Boken. I'm arguing there isn't much to show for it for these long hours.
Boken said:
Relieved to say the least. I'd reply to your other comments, but I realized something: we're trying to argue whether or not Riot is an efficient and well organized company by comparing them to Valve. We may as well discuss whose farts smell worse.
I agree with you in spirit though - that we need more goodies, i just dont agree on your specific points.
TBH, i dont know how much is a lot of employes for the size of LoL right now - servers in a million countries, self run their esports, community facing, 20+ skins in pipeline, 9 champions in pipeline, balance, major content patches, visual updates
but its hard to imagine a company that is so strict with hiring and run by pretty smart guys to be behind on what you want because they "work inefficiently". Its very likely that there are many other reasons that you havent considered. you need to recognise that the game itself runs on a really old engine and as i hear, the coding was pretty dosh. the client itself is another bottleneck as its written in air. A lot of this was because they never expected the game to get so big - and thats probably a bigger point than you realise. Replays are awesome yeah. Spectate anybody is pretty cool too. But remember that there are like, 32 million people who play each month, which is 5 times the amount of information that the dota servers/implementation have to account for.
did you forget howling abyss and shadow isle patches?Riot is such a polarizing company, you either gotta hate them or love them. They should start pimping all their patch notes like Valve did with their First Blood thing. People apparently interprets that as something massive and awesome
i think they're trying to tie in their "massive patches" with big lore elements
I actually do realize it, though, per my reply to Throne Zwei:
I've been in a company that went from 40 employees to 450 in 18 months. The only thing that fixed our issues was to shitcan everything we had and use the new owner's, well, everything, really. Maybe Riot is making a new client behind the scenes, I don't know. If they are and keeping it a secret I wouldn't blame them considering the abuse they take for even dumb shit like the Heimer rework.
Delodax said:
Yeah, both at the same time typically. Don't get me wrong I really like LoL. Reds on the forums seem like genuinely people. LoL will end up in the range of the amount of time I've spent on the Civ and EU series by the time I'm done with it, which is crazy for me. A lot of this is my natural pessimism coming through. Like, I love my Patriots but I'll shit on them as much as anyone else.
mm i dont mean that the explosion in size affected them and made them inefficient - their stringent hiring practices assure me of this, but that their backwards, and frankly, shoddy engine/coding and client because they built it for a very small audience (and thus, less fixed cost into it) has bit them in the ass.
PROGRAM_IX
Member
This makes sense. Valve did have the advantage of knowing - really knowing - their game would be downloaded and played by millions of people. They were hardly a fledgling company when they started it, either. I'm not sure Riot were in a similar position when they made their first go at LoL.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Nami is fun but in a way Nami is also not fun
Something like this?:
Nami is fun when you're on a roll and hit bubbles
Nami is not fun when you completely suck and feed
PROGRAM_IX
Member
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Don't mind me guys. The Champion is fun and awesome, I have just gotten into some bad normals.
Oh god please let this happen.
Oh god please let this happen.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Nah, World Cup skins > skills.
Damn. That Captain's draft mode for dota2 sounds sweet. There's no way we'd ever see something like that for LoL though
On the current topic, I think Riot has been doing pretty damn good. Weekly or even bi-weekly patches for a product used by millions regularly is a huge feat by itself.
On the current topic, I think Riot has been doing pretty damn good. Weekly or even bi-weekly patches for a product used by millions regularly is a huge feat by itself.
Well not just here, but in the game when someone has a skin and doesn't play up to standards people start talking shit like a wasted skin or things along those lines. I'm guessing it's jealous teenagers that can't afford it but I dunno. The vaulted skins I guess you have a point there but still, that just means they've been playing for a long time, doesn't mean they are good.
luls that 5am matchmaking,
I'm on level 11 account get matched up with level 18 who said he was solo queuing on my team.
Enemy team had level 9 Vayne that was so good at the game and last hitting ccreeps no way it wasn't a smurf and a Yi that was level 26, imo they were a duo queue. Game over and ruined this level 9 Vayne only bought one doran's blade entire 21 minutes of match. Vayne lead entire game with creep kills.
Sorry Riot but your matchmaking is shit wasted what close to 30 minutes on a 21 minute game that was so lopsided I just logged out not to play again.
I'm on level 11 account get matched up with level 18 who said he was solo queuing on my team.
Enemy team had level 9 Vayne that was so good at the game and last hitting ccreeps no way it wasn't a smurf and a Yi that was level 26, imo they were a duo queue. Game over and ruined this level 9 Vayne only bought one doran's blade entire 21 minutes of match. Vayne lead entire game with creep kills.
Sorry Riot but your matchmaking is shit wasted what close to 30 minutes on a 21 minute game that was so lopsided I just logged out not to play again.
It's definitely not perfect but it will get better as you level. There's just not as many low level accounts compared to level 30s that are actively playing - especially that early.
Stomps suck though
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Own it but use Barbarian.
Played him AD on TT with two feeders. We still won after 45 mins and I had 4.5k hp.
KiwiLannister
Member
So I usually main top and play a little jungle. I'm wanting to learn mid. Currently my best champs are Jax, Tryndamere and Jarvan in that order. I'm think I should get a champ that can play top and mid, so I can learn them up top where I'm comfortable and then progress to mid.
I've played a couple of games as Talon seeing as he's free, not sure if I should buy him but he's been pretty fun. I'm thinking Kennen/Jayce/Elise/Zed might be good options for champs that can do both solo lanes? I bought Ryze but I really struggle to play him, not used to a champ that lacks mobility.
I've played a couple of games as Talon seeing as he's free, not sure if I should buy him but he's been pretty fun. I'm thinking Kennen/Jayce/Elise/Zed might be good options for champs that can do both solo lanes? I bought Ryze but I really struggle to play him, not used to a champ that lacks mobility.
I did not mean to imply that Riot doesn't do themed patches. It was more a jab at Valve's recent patch that is very "themed" although it contains very little beyond bug fixes that affect me as a player.
SenorArdilla
Member
It's a Free-to-Play game that occasionally hands out freebies. Not to mention, you probably have friends in real life to play with as well. That's what I think, at least.
Friends are what got me into League, but I don't play many games with them. Mainly just solo queue. LoL is like a second job.
exactly!
nah, captains draft sucks for solo queue. i wouldnt mind random draft though, could be fun. maybe when we have a new client so we can multiqueueDamn. That Captain's draft mode for dota2 sounds sweet. There's no way we'd ever see something like that for LoL though
On the current topic, I think Riot has been doing pretty damn good. Weekly or even bi-weekly patches for a product used by millions regularly is a huge feat by itself.
oh, so you mean riot should make all their patches prettier
PROGRAM_IX
Member
I know I started playing to play with friends, and then pretty quickly they were better than me, so over time I wanted to improve. LoL helped me realise I would blame anyone but myself for mistakes, and to a degree change that behaviour. It was also the first online team-based game I ever really put time into, and the pressure in PvP games was terrifying to me. As a result I wanted to play more, and let familiarity pare down that fear. I've had a good bit of success with that, too.
(The improving thing didn't work out toooo well, but two out of three and all that.)
(The improving thing didn't work out toooo well, but two out of three and all that.)
- It's competitive
- It rewards skillful play
- It has a noticeable player skill progression with a very high cap (one of the reasons CS has survived many many years as well)
- it's able to be played in 45min chunks without a persistent "grind" the way a MMO is laid out
- it's "free"
- there's lots of collectibles. People love their collectibles
- It has a constant stream of new content (collectibles)
- It's fun
the actual gameplay is pretty cool with the character progression of levels and items as well as the skill based matchups of the champion vs champion. LoL was my first MOBA and I found I really liked the gametype. It's like a mini RPG/RTS game in 45 minute match format.
Well, they don't need to do it for my sake, I don't care. I only care about the content
It was in reply to the comments about how Riot sucks and doesn't do anything. I think they have pretty frequent patches and they always have some impact on my gameplay and enjoyment. As a player of DotA2 I was intrigued by their latest patch which has received a lot of interest on twitter and reddit even though it, in my opinion, did not contain much that'd further increase my personal enjoyment of the game. I wondered if it had anything to do with Valve pimping it as some kind of big release
Prettier patches >>> Content patches.
riot pls hire me, will theorycraft for food
riot pls hire me, will theorycraft for food
Not actually a joke, will theorycraft for food.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
Well a lot of them could be working on a new game, I doubt they want to stuck with only 1 game for the next 5 years. I assume that they have different groups experimenting with different games trying to find the next big hit.
LoL F2P MMO?
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