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[Blizzard]

It looks like we've got 5+ people who play as, and/or against Jayce, including scy who apparently plays against diamond and platinum Jayces, so the only answer is for you all to go 1v1 top lane custom Jayce, Fiora, Alligator, Singed games and drop some education on each other until only one true opinion is left!

I do agree that the big Jayce thing is tear, so running out of mana will probably never happen.

 

[Boken]

i played a jayce today after not playing him since s2.
renekton rage quit after dying 4 times.

Maybe you're just better than the other player? It doesn't prove that jayce beats renekton

It looks like we've got 5+ people who play as, and/or against Jayce, including scy who apparently plays against diamond and platinum Jayces, so the only answer is for you all to go 1v1 top lane custom Jayce, Fiora, Alligator, Singed games and drop some education on each other until only one true opinion is left!

I do agree that the big Jayce thing is tear, so running out of mana will probably never happen.

I'm not saying singed beats jayce, just that people pick him to counter singed often and how I deal with it.

 

[Type2]

I feel like a traitor jungling with nasus but he is such a monster. Easily secures objectives, fast at taking down turrets, running into a lane just to land wither/insta force flash is just too easy and farming q is so addictive. THE DAWGGG.

 

[Blizzard]

I feel like a traitor jungling with nasus but he is such a monster. Easily secures objectives, fast at taking down turrets, running into a lane just to land wither/insta force flash is just too easy and farming q is so addictive. THE DAWGGG.

I tried this in ranked today and got absolutely DESTROYED by a jungle Hecarim on the other team. It was one of the most aggressive Hecarims (and mid lane Akali who would come with him) I've seen. He got first blood double ambushing/chasing me in the jungle, took nearly every buff, might have had them warded as well, was flying into lanes, and practically took no tower damage since he was 3-5 levels above the rest of our team. He would tower dive 2 or 3 people, literally run behind the turret, into the jungle, maybe back through the turret, and out into the lane without anyone being able to stop him or do much damage.

In summary, he was doing the things junglers are supposed to do, and it's probably my worst role and did not work out well.

I was maxing W though, which gave me even less damage if he tried to catch me in the jungle. Maybe the right strategy would have been to max Q once I started seeing counterjungling. I just kept trying to farm, and buy tank items, and occasionally push lanes or towers to get closer to his level, since I stayed 3+ levels under him.

HOWEVER! All that said, our top lane did okay, our mid Cho stayed big and strong and did not feed Akali tons of kills, and our bot lane got kills, some of which I may have even helped with! And after all the Hecarim diving, and taunting us in all-chat, he dived into our team maybe twice 30+ minutes in, resulting in two lost teamfights, and us simply taking the nexus the second time. And of course he blamed his team. I can't credit jungle Nasus with the victory, but it was incredibly satisfying to see a taunting, arrogant, aggressive player lose.

 

[dimb]

Maxing W on Nasus will only help you gank. Maxing E would give you better clears to control your jungle and help you when it came to duels. And you should still thank jungle Nasus because he doesn't need to do well to still have an impact on games.

 

[Type2]

I tried this in ranked today and got absolutely DESTROYED by a jungle Hecarim on the other team. It was one of the most aggressive Hecarims (and mid lane Akali who would come with him) I've seen. He got first blood double ambushing/chasing me in the jungle, took nearly every buff, might have had them warded as well, was flying into lanes, and practically took no tower damage since he was 3-5 levels above the rest of our team. He would tower dive 2 or 3 people, literally run behind the turret, into the jungle, maybe back through the turret, and out into the lane without anyone being able to stop him or do much damage.

In summary, he was doing the things junglers are supposed to do, and it's probably my worst role and did not work out well.

I was maxing W though, which gave me even less damage if he tried to catch me in the jungle. Maybe the right strategy would have been to max Q once I started seeing counterjungling. I just kept trying to farm, and buy tank items, and occasionally push lanes or towers to get closer to his level, since I stayed 3+ levels under him.

HOWEVER! All that said, our top lane did okay, our mid Cho stayed big and strong and did not feed Akali tons of kills, and our bot lane got kills, some of which I may have even helped with! And after all the Hecarim diving, and taunting us in all-chat, he dived into our team maybe twice 30+ minutes in, resulting in two lost teamfights, and us simply taking the nexus the second time. And of course he blamed his team. I can't credit jungle Nasus with the victory, but it was incredibly satisfying to see a taunting, arrogant, aggressive player lose.

I max E usually and Q sometimes when jungling. Wither only really needs one point early on and counters hec pretty well since it nerfs his charge and damage. I just made a lot of of good calls in one of my last two games against a hec jungle by successfully counter ganking our bot, hitting 6 to take dragon and stealing their blue as often as I could. Also dont underestimate E's power to deter tower dives. You being there with spirit fire providing fantastic waveclear will make them think twice about diving. I like to visit lanes that either arent doing well or dont have a favorable matchup early just to throw a wither down and force a flash.

 

[Blizzard]

I max E usually and Q sometimes when jungling. Wither only really needs one point early on and counters hec pretty well since it nerfs his charge and damage. I just made a lot of of good calls in one of my last two games against a hec jungle by successfully counter ganking our bot, hitting 6 to take dragon and stealing their blue as often as I could. Also dont underestimate E's power to deter tower dives. You being there with spirit fire providing fantastic waveclear will make them think twice about diving. I like to visit lanes that either arent doing well or dont have a favorable matchup early just to throw a wither down and force a flash.

Thanks for the tips. I think I died and got behind even before level 3, but if I try it again I will try maxing E.

 

[brian!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jEaS1RzWRA&feature=youtu.be

real good play from eg

 

[zkylon]

I can't understand how ryze isn't considered OP. I just got killed by a 1150 damage Q.

and he's tanky as fuck (two purely defensive items, all offensive items add defensive stats except for sorc shoes)

I hate everything about that champ, feels so bullshity that you can deal lux's ult damage on a 2.5 second cooldown...

Yeah, I'm pretty bad with her. I kinda wanna play her more to get better, but I rarely get mid, and I've been working on Syndra when I do anyways.

I did shield+ult 4 people into a fiddlesticks ult one time. It was glorious.

if you get mid, pick ori and don't lock in. people see orianna and like to go malphite or other divers that can easily help you get a good ult off. and yeah, just remember that people can flash (or even dash/move) out of it since it's delayed.

 

[Leezard]

I can't understand how ryze isn't considered OP. I just got killed by a 1150 damage Q.

and he's tanky as fuck (two purely defensive items, all offensive items add defensive stats except for sorc shoes)

I hate everything about that champ, feels so bullshity that you can deal lux's ult damage on a 2.5 second cooldown...


if you get mid, pick ori and don't lock in. people see orianna and like to go malphite or other divers that can easily help you get a good ult off. and yeah, just remember that people can flash (or even dash/move) out of it since it's delayed.

Ryze scales hard, but he's not very good early in the game. Late game he wrecks face though. It's kinda like how you don't want to go late game against a vayne.

 

[dimb]

I can't understand how ryze isn't considered OP. I just got killed by a 1150 damage Q.

and he's tanky as fuck (two purely defensive items, all offensive items add defensive stats except for sorc shoes)

I hate everything about that champ, feels so bullshity that you can deal lux's ult damage on a 2.5 second cooldown...

1)Lux is a pretty big pile of bologna too.
2)It is pretty impossible that he did that much damage with one Q. You are not seeing things right.

My problem with Ryze comes down to his playstyle. There pretty much is none. You hit all the buttons and blow everything and that's actually the right way to play. Super low risk and super high reward.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

Ryze scales hard, but he's not very good early in the game. Late game he wrecks face though. It's kinda like how you don't want to go late game against a vayne.

Yep. Ryze is garbage until around 13 and if he gets behind early, you are boned.

 

[Blizzard]

I can't understand how ryze isn't considered OP. I just got killed by a 1150 damage Q.

I never managed to work out the proper optimum spell cycle orders for Ryze to minimize cooldowns, so he at least takes that much figuring out. I don't know why it seemed so confusing to me, maybe I didn't practice enough or maybe I'm just dumb.

And it should be nearly impossible for Ryze's Q to deal that much damage. Due to the spell cycle cooldown reduction, you probably got hit by at least two of them. A single Q deals 60 / 85 / 110 / 135 / 160 (+ 40% AP) (+ 6.5% max mana) magic damage, which is almost certainly not 1150.

 

[Schmattakopf]

Lux does well against Ryze. I feel like we've been over that in this thread.

My problem with Ryze comes down to his playstyle. There pretty much is none. You hit all the buttons and blow everything and that's actually the right way to play. Super low risk and super high reward.

I like Ryze because I'm bad at landing skillshots, and I don't feel like I have to battle the mechanics of the game to play him. So sure, he is easy to play, but that doesn't mean he's void of style or low risk.

 

[zkylon]

Ryze scales hard, but he's not very good early in the game. Late game he wrecks face though. It's kinda like how you don't want to go late game against a vayne.

he's not that bad. he's not great, but it's not like you can push him around like you would a karthus

1)Lux is a pretty big pile of bologna too.

I disagree, lux is second to sona the weakest champion in the game and requires you to land skillshots, use her passive correctly, etc. she already got her ms nerfed for less safety and her ult cd for less spamming.

I won't say she's crazy hard or anything, but there's a bit of skill involved in playing her properly or you'll be useless. you also build her glass cannon so she can be very punishing if you suck.

2)It is pretty impossible that he did that much damage with one Q. You are not seeing things right.

it's what the post-death thing showed. maybe multiple Qs show as only one. I wish I'd taken a screenshot.

57% of my hp with his overload thingie, 1150 damage is what it showed. I had an abyss as my only "defensive" item.

he had: liandrys, seraph, zhonya, sorc shoes, banshees and frozen heart

My problem with Ryze comes down to his playstyle. There pretty much is none. You hit all the buttons and blow everything and that's actually the right way to play. Super low risk and super high reward.

can't say for sure since I only played him once but from an outsider's point of view it sure feels like it.

Lux does well against Ryze. I feel like we've been over that in this thread.

I'm not going on about lux vs ryze, this happened in aram and I was playing ahri.

and I had to jump around, land two skillshots plus DFG and put myself right in front of everyone while being squishy as fuck while it felt like he just facerolled everyone into oblivion.

I've had similar situations in sr, I just hate the champion, buying defensives and getting damage feels like bullshit to me

And it should be nearly impossible for Ryze's Q to deal that much damage. Due to the spell cycle cooldown reduction, you probably got hit by at least two of them. A single Q deals 60 / 85 / 110 / 135 / 160 (+ 40% AP) (+ 6.5% max mana) magic damage, which is almost certainly not 1150.

I dunno how that shows on the death screen. I vividly recall the 1150 and 57% numbers.

 

[dimb]

I like Ryze because I'm bad at landing skillshots, and I don't feel like I have to battle the mechanics of the game to play him. So sure, he is easy to play, but that doesn't mean he's void of style or low risk.

His cooldowns are pretty low, he has innate sustain, you can't really miss his skills, and there's not that much to think about when your passive just rewards you with the ability to use more spells for throwing them out. His itemization is oriented around becoming tanky while reducing the risk even further and making his gigantic mana pool even more irrelevant as an inhibitor. He can push lanes and team fight while pumping out damage and being a tough front line champion. Even his 1-6 isn't so bad when you have rune prison available. He's not as easy a gank as someone like pre-six Kassadin.

it's what the post-death thing showed. maybe multiple Qs show as only one. I wish I'd taken a screenshot.

They do.

 

[zkylon]

They do.

mystery solved

alright, so he has at worst a lux E on a 2 sec cooldown (or less if he throws a W/E) while being super tanky, having infinite mana, free cdr and free mr reduction.

who needs a four spell when you can just spam this?

 

[Schmattakopf]

His cooldowns are pretty low, he has innate sustain, you can't really miss his skills, and there's not that much to think about when your passive just rewards you with the ability to use more spells for throwing them out. His itemization is oriented around becoming tanky while reducing the risk even further and making his gigantic mana pool even more irrelevant as an inhibitor. He can push lanes and team fight while pumping out damage and being a tough front line champion. Even his 1-6 isn't so bad when you have rune prison available. He's not as easy a gank as someone like pre-six Kassadin.

His sustain is not that great and he needs to be tanky because his spells are all short range. Also you aren't rewarded for throwing out random spells. It isn't like the passive is in addition to his power, it's necessary to factor it in. You have to think about when to use which rotation to get out enough damage.

And while I'm sure scarra has no problem 1-6 (or 9-13), nor being in the front line, I find both of those to be difficult.

 

[Blizzard]

mystery solved

alright, so he has at worst a lux E on a 2 sec cooldown (or less if he throws a W/E) while being super tanky, having infinite mana, free cdr and free mr reduction.

who needs a four spell when you can just spam this?

It isn't free MR reduction. Someone has to stand in range or near minions for you to hit them with it, at which point Ryze himself can be attacked. It is free CDR, because I would say Ryze is a damage-over-time mage like Cass, aside from the higher cooldown R.

Being super tanky happens if he does not get behind early in the game. Comparing to Lux E -- what are you saying by this? That Lux's skills as a ranged assassin should be comparable to Ryze's skills? Lux's E can be used for AOE minion wave clears, and Ryze's cannot unless he uses R (or MAYBE maxes E early which is probably a horrible idea).

Try a champion and/or jungler that can get him behind early. If he is reduced to farming you may be able to outfarm and outroam him as well.

 

[methane47]

i am on an epic losing streak...

 

[dimb]

His sustain is not that great and he needs to be tanky because his spells are all short range.

Better than Annie. To me his range is comparable to many other of the kind of bruiser/caster types.

Also you aren't rewarded for throwing out random spells. It isn't like the passive is in addition to his power, it's necessary to factor it in. You have to think about when to use which rotation to get out enough damage.

Yeah, there are definitely ways to play better in a way that maximizes your damage output, but you will never be punished in the way other champions will be where missing a spell or pulling a blue card instead of a yellow on TF can just change the fight.

And while I'm sure scarra has no problem 1-6 (or 9-13), nor being in the front line, I find both of those to be difficult.

I still like throwing your Ryze into the front line.

 

[zkylon]

It isn't free MR reduction. Someone has to stand in range or near minions for you to hit them with it, at which point Ryze himself can be attacked. It is free CDR, because I would say Ryze is a damage-over-time mage like Cass, aside from the higher cooldown R.

Being super tanky happens if he does not get behind early in the game. Comparing to Lux E -- what are you saying by this? That Lux's skills as a ranged assassin should be comparable to Ryze's skills? Lux's E can be used for AOE minion wave clears, and Ryze's cannot unless he uses R (or MAYBE maxes E early which is probably a horrible idea).

Try a champion and/or jungler that can get him behind early. If he is reduced to farming you may be able to outfarm and outroam him as well.

was comparing in damage only. guy dealt I guess like 500 or 600 damage on a single Q, lux's E is something similar.

to me that's just dumb, you shouldn't be able to be tanky and burst people that easily. and then be mostly safe in lane. it's not really a weakness of ryze that I dunno talon or pantheon destroy them early game, they destroy anyone.

 

[dimb]

was comparing in damage only. guy dealt I guess like 500 or 600 damage on a single Q, lux's E is something similar.

to me that's just dumb, you shouldn't be able to be tanky and burst people that easily. and then be mostly safe in lane. it's not really a weakness of ryze that I dunno talon or pantheon destroy them early game, they destroy anyone.

yo lux is like...the safest laner in the game. ryze isn't that easy. wait for rune prison c/d and gank.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Morgana feels safer in lane.

 

[dimb]

Morgana feels safer in lane.

Nah. Long cooldowns and her attack range is the shortest of any ranged champion.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Can't be ganked though. She's probably the only champ I can push real hard without being scared.

 

[dimb]

Can't be ganked though.

She can. It's easier than you think. Just burn the shield before you apply CC.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Junglers usually leave their CCs at Lv1 though. The enemy laner could blow up your shield beforehand but you can always just Q the jungler and/or take extra points off Q to E.

You'd probably be screwed if the jungler took Exhaust but that is very rare.

 

[dimb]

Junglers usually leave their CCs at Lv1 though.

Uh, yeah. That's why you use the other spells first, burn the shield and then CC.

 

[Schmattakopf]

Better than Annie. To me his range is comparable to many other of the kind of bruiser/caster types.

I don't really know who the other bruiser mids are, but presumably they have something defensive (stroke they build defensively), or else we would just call them a mid.

Yeah, there are definitely ways to play better in a way that maximizes your damage output, but you will never be punished in the way other champions will be where missing a spell or pulling a blue card instead of a yellow on TF can just change the fight.

Again though, I don't feel like it's maximising damage, I feel like that is necessary for damage and punishable if you don't. Other champions have other things that balance them out.

I still like throwing your Ryze into the front line.

#1 cause of my Ryze deaths.

 

[methane47]

losing streak over whew

thats with playing with a poppy who felt like engaging the enemy when the rest of our team was 4 screens away

 

[zkylon]

yo lux is like...the safest laner in the game. ryze isn't that easy. wait for rune prison c/d and gank.

why would rune prison be on cd?

 

[IsayFever]

why would rune prison be on cd?

using its damage to farm to stack tear?

 

[Schmattakopf]

Or to harass.

 

[scy]

was comparing in damage only. guy dealt I guess like 500 or 600 damage on a single Q, lux's E is something similar.

to me that's just dumb, you shouldn't be able to be tanky and burst people that easily. and then be mostly safe in lane. it's not really a weakness of ryze that I dunno talon or pantheon destroy them early game, they destroy anyone.

Ryze has a really punishable early game for a mid lane: He can't push it at all until he hits 6 (and has to use his ult for it) and he takes 2 major items before he's even a big threat. His ranges are low (625, 650, 675 cast ranges; 550 AA Range). His mana costs are prohibitive early on.

Basically, he's a hyper carry AP. His role is to become a machine-gun death dealing machine. It takes awhile and he's easy to shut down. Nearly every skillshot based mid has a fairly good matchup against Ryze.

 

[dimb]

Ryze has a really punishable early game for a mid lane: He can't push it at all until he hits 6 (and has to use his ult for it) and he takes 2 major items before he's even a big threat. His ranges are low (525, 550, 575 cast ranges; 550 AA Range). His mana costs are prohibitive early on.

r u trying to trick me?

 

[Boken]

he forgot to carry a one

or maybe this is some VladimirxRyze fusion

imagine that.

most OP APC EVER

 

[scy]

r u trying to trick me?

fuck

Edit: Just to clarify then, it's 650 (Overload), 625 (Rune Prison), 675 (Spell Flux).

 

[Boken]

In his defense, the ranges are low compared to skillshot land in middle

and ryze earlygame is pretty shit

esp in solo Q where your jungler doesnt know to gank ryze lanes for the easy flash rune prison ganks

 

[dimb]

fuck

Edit: Just to clarify then, it's 650 (Overload), 625 (Rune Prison), 675 (Spell Flux).

His ultimate gives the extra range too. Kind of. Just saying.

 

[Boken]

.

 

[dimb]

.

Alright. You guys keep complaining about one of the most popular picks at high levels of play.

 

[Boken]

whats there to complain about

he has a weak early game supplemented by a great late game

it sounds like youre saying he's really strong... so arent you the one complaining?

and please "ryze ult gives him more range! cos it like, makes him run faster" as if thats not grasping at straws

 

[Ken]

Ryze is purple Idunno what else there is to say.

Oh yeah pirate ryZe is a thing

 

[dimb]

and please "ryze ult gives him more range! cos it like, makes him run faster" as if thats not grasping at straws

Active: Ryze becomes supercharged, gaining spell vamp, movement speed and causing his spells to deal 50% of their damage to other enemies around the original target within 200 range.

ok

 

[Boken]

ok

werent you complaining about his snare
does his snare suddenly become 825 range?


and just to respond to "one of the most popular picks at high levels of play"

dat top 34th (ish) pick
(NALCS, 30th in EU LCS, and keep in mind this includes when manamune was bronk on ryze)

(all ranked % similiar to plat %)
ryze is as popular as vi, ashe and nunu.
http://www.lolking.net/champions/
feel free to count how far down that is for me

 

[dimb]

werent you complaining about his snare
does his snare suddenly become 825 range?

I was just saying his range wasn't that bad.

I don't think he's a problem or something, just that he's pretty strong for how easy he is to play. It is sad you think those charts are even remotely meaningful. Ryze is not uncommon and he showed up multiple times in the finals today for NALCS and is above Ori and other popular champs like Voli/Trist. He is at a 22.3% pick/ban rate. You are a terrible person and I generally just find you annoying.

 

[Boken]

I was just saying his range wasn't that bad.

I don't think he's a problem or something, just that he's pretty strong for how easy he is to play. It is sad you think those charts are even remotely meaningful. Ryze is not uncommon and he showed up multiple times in the finals today for NALCS and is above Ori and other popular champs like Voli/Trist. He is at a 22.3% pick/ban rate. You are a terrible person and I generally just find you annoying.

Didn't you say he was one of the most popular picks at high level play?
Are those images not meaningful to determining that?

and you know, I only pick fights I know I can win. unless its in a game


doesnt think the charts are even remotely meaningful
uses statistics from them to make an argument
-sodacop

Maybe I annoy you because youre wrong all the time!?

 

[SafeinSound]

Didn't you say he was one of the most popular picks at high level play?



doesnt think the charts are even remotely meaningful
uses statistics from them to make an argument
-sodacop

lmao

 

[dimb]

I am talking about how the charts from Lolking with made up numbers are wrong. The ones where Leona is the third most popular champion. Yeah, super meaningful. Keep pretending that a champion showing up in 1/5 of LCS games isn't relevant.

kayos was right. this place sucks. you are literally starting a fight with me over nothing just because of some bizarre need to constantly validate yourself.