I had a phase where I was trying to make it work a long time. It didn't work well at all, but you might have better luck. It was probably some time in S2 when I tried it so item changes might've benefited it. Doubtful, though.
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League of Legends |OT4| No Country for Old Karma
- Thread starter kayos90
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Dobkeratops
OT Hard Carry
traditional ap mids.
rumble and vlad are traditionally tops, but rumble still brings slows.
all of the champions you listed are assassins. with the ability to jump and avoid cc to get to the back line and kill high priority targets. alternatively you have nidalee who again falls into the long range/poke identity.
every mage. karthus and ziggs make up for it with range, karthus wall is still one of the best cc abilities in the game though.
rumble and vlad are traditionally tops, but rumble still brings slows.
all of the champions you listed are assassins. with the ability to jump and avoid cc to get to the back line and kill high priority targets. alternatively you have nidalee who again falls into the long range/poke identity.
seriously stretching.
I think she has damage. I don't think it's burst, especially when the first Harrier proc might not land when you need it to. Graves is an AD carry I think has burst. I think Quinn benefits from longer fights where ultimates are less of a factor (because she probably won't be using hers for much).
low level games. plz don't take my score seriously or try to evaluate why i lost when i have a support yi and jungle eve. i do not think quinn is completely without value or why i lost that game, just to be clear.
I know lich bane and rabbadons is effective but im not sure about a tankier build. I rarely get to play what I want in normals but ill try my luck getting ap nasus mid or maybe just build him ap out of jungle.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Just had an awesome game as Quinn mid.
Dealt most damage to champions, kept Kassadin to 21 cs when I had over 100. He only got kills when he started roaming, but he could never 1 v 1 me, I had too much burst. I was basically an assassin, I focused the high priority targets in fights and took them down. Turned around every team fight that was going bad. Carried my team to victory.
Dealt most damage to champions, kept Kassadin to 21 cs when I had over 100. He only got kills when he started roaming, but he could never 1 v 1 me, I had too much burst. I was basically an assassin, I focused the high priority targets in fights and took them down. Turned around every team fight that was going bad. Carried my team to victory.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
If a carry position himself to get e stun by Quinn, and gang by your team. You might as well pick zed or kha and instantly vaporize whoever dumb enough to get to your range. Not to mention it's not really a stun but more of a interrupt.
Aoe blind is a good dueling tool and wave clear. It has its use, but it is not the team fight cc you need. Are you really going to flash and cc like Annie? Or Quinn should just blind the tanks in the front? How you going to reach the back line like ahri, akali, zed etc? Ult and make a big circle around their team?
No one saying Quinn mid doesn't work, she just need every lane to pick around her. However, she will never be a good substitute when your team need a normal mid.
Aoe blind is a good dueling tool and wave clear. It has its use, but it is not the team fight cc you need. Are you really going to flash and cc like Annie? Or Quinn should just blind the tanks in the front? How you going to reach the back line like ahri, akali, zed etc? Ult and make a big circle around their team?
No one saying Quinn mid doesn't work, she just need every lane to pick around her. However, she will never be a good substitute when your team need a normal mid.
You are what is wrong with the report system.
PhillipCostigan
Member
It was blind pick. Kinda got lucky I guess.
yeah I mean this sentiment is pretty on point, it's not really suitable to compare quinn to traditional mids when the nature of the pick doesn't mesh terribly well with traditional play
the creation of comps entails a greater objective, like you have to have an idea of what you want to do with her and have other champs in the team make up for shortcomings or mesh with whatever playstyle you are attempting
ppl also need to see past whatever advantage they are garnering from people who aren't used to a quinn mid, like think about whether she is useful if she isn't in a position to dominate her lane or whatever. if people consider her a good roamer I guess you'd have to compare her to other roamers and there are a bunch of traditional ones that give good presence in other lanes, are safe, can farm well, etc.
dbl ad kind of assumes armor shred tho so you tend to get locked into having something like nasus/renek/j4 or whatever, but those kinds of things are pretty workable, plus you can often find non-dedicated sources of magic dmg that usually adds up meaningfully
but yeah comparing quinn to mids rather than comparing comps is kinda fruitless for me because I can't imagine what quinn would bring to the table in like a solo q style pick.
I can foresee a comp where veigar throws out an e and quinn circles around like a vulture, thus making the enemy team lose hope as they become more aware of their mortality
les papillons sexuels
Banned
I play ap nasus all the time. Zhonyas and his ult are great, especially if you have spell vamp and are in the middle of a team fight. Have them get you down to about half hp, lay down spirt and ult, then zhonas, you'll heal back quite a bit. If you have iceborne or lichbane you can do some massive dmg off your siphon.
If you want a tankeir build go with iceborne, zhonya's, abyssal, gunblade, and get sunfire. If you want more burst get lichebane instead of the iceborne and get deathcap instead of sunfire.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
May be it'll work if you have something like Leona/Janna support, jarvan jungle, shen top, MF/ez bot. Sunfire cap and statikk shiv + shen should be enough ap damages. Black cleaver on MF + LW to counter any armor stacking. Everyone can focus on bursting down objectives with two ad and save their CD to counter initiate.
Now I want to try play a game with Quinn mid.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Just because dimb can be dry and condescending doesn't mean he's wrong. In the case of Quinn, he's spot on.
I'm not saying she's useless or terrible, she's actually quite good at what she does, which is duel other ADCs. But in terms of overall viability, her kit is just so strange.
And stop with all this Quinn split pushing nonsense. Her waveclear is terrible and using her ult to escape is a huge waste.
The only ADC I'd put mid even with an AP top and jungle is Urgot, but he's not even an ADC, really. He's an AD caster and like AP mids, he scales much better with levels than the others.
Double ADC comps are weak, period. They are extremely easy to counter-itemize and pressure early game and rarely make it to late game against anyone that knows what they're doing. Even if you just put Quinn mid and have some kind of gimmick kill or push lane bot, you are still using a gimmick to pick around a gimmick.
It's just silly. I'm not saying it can't work, but why?
And Quinn does not have hard CC. She has a millisecond interrupt.
I'm not saying she's useless or terrible, she's actually quite good at what she does, which is duel other ADCs. But in terms of overall viability, her kit is just so strange.
And stop with all this Quinn split pushing nonsense. Her waveclear is terrible and using her ult to escape is a huge waste.
The only ADC I'd put mid even with an AP top and jungle is Urgot, but he's not even an ADC, really. He's an AD caster and like AP mids, he scales much better with levels than the others.
Double ADC comps are weak, period. They are extremely easy to counter-itemize and pressure early game and rarely make it to late game against anyone that knows what they're doing. Even if you just put Quinn mid and have some kind of gimmick kill or push lane bot, you are still using a gimmick to pick around a gimmick.
It's just silly. I'm not saying it can't work, but why?
And Quinn does not have hard CC. She has a millisecond interrupt.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Quinn has terrible wave clear? That's ridiculous. She has like, some of the best wave clear of any ADC.
Yeah so quinns wave clear isn't top tier, but it's moderately decent with trinity + she gets target less trinity procs from her q and w for taking towers. She's not the best split pusher, but any good duelist with high mobility would make a good split pusher.
I dunno, maybe they're quinn hipsters. Yeah so tf has better wave clear and ganks and team fighting but maybe, quinn is a better duelist than tf and does more damage on towers or maybe they wanna dominate lane more
PhillipCostigan
Member
I'd just suggest you all try it, seriously.
Just bully in lane until 6, then roam everywhere. See for yourself.
Just bully in lane until 6, then roam everywhere. See for yourself.
crackbabyjr
Member
Can you just take free towers with enough AP?
hmm I always thought I was a decent leona player but checking my numbers I got 12.50% win % with her, though out of the only 8 leona matches elobuff has recorded.
hmm
I really wanna change something, I must be doing something wrong or else I'd win a few... I think I'm gonna get the +50g masteries and start with a cloth armor or something.
hmm
I really wanna change something, I must be doing something wrong or else I'd win a few... I think I'm gonna get the +50g masteries and start with a cloth armor or something.
"I'd like bring up something that I think alot of people have overlooked: Poros"
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410406¤tpage=2#38
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410406¤tpage=2#38
PhillipCostigan
Member
are you duo queueing? I always think of Leona as a really good duo q support but a terrible solo q support. The coordination is rarely there.
I take joy in your sorrow!
I liked this, from that Riot person who I think used to post here:
Nome said:
ARAM is more fun than SR. Sorry bro.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
I'd rather see you do it. Not kidding, I'm legitimately interested in seeing it work.
both.
I usually get very good level 2s or level 3s but after that I get an adc failing to follow up or something like that and the lane starts tilting against me.
I do know I'm no good at teamfights. I'm always set against MF or something and ulting her to stop her own ult feels like such a waste. or no one will follow up my ult, etc.
yeah but seeing other people's success doesn't really legitimize it for me
like that's a consistent problem in this thread where posting after-game success doesn't really translate towards anything beyond "I, at the level I am at, had situational success". shadowamlet showing me how his 135 cs support thresh w/ rageblade won a game and that he did the best on his team makes me think "gj buddy, but I'm not really interested in trying that out"
actually it's not a problem like you can do whatever you want I don't give a shit, but it doesn't work as objective proof or anything. I guess I'm more interested in hearing rationale and then deciding whether that is applicable to my own situation
I'd try it out but I think quinn is free this week and I'm probably not gonna play much this week :I
this mrn house tour is some next level shit: http://www.gamespot.com/league-of-l...-a-tour-of-the-team-mrn-gaming-house-6407840/
like that's a consistent problem in this thread where posting after-game success doesn't really translate towards anything beyond "I, at the level I am at, had situational success". shadowamlet showing me how his 135 cs support thresh w/ rageblade won a game and that he did the best on his team makes me think "gj buddy, but I'm not really interested in trying that out"
actually it's not a problem like you can do whatever you want I don't give a shit, but it doesn't work as objective proof or anything. I guess I'm more interested in hearing rationale and then deciding whether that is applicable to my own situation
I'd try it out but I think quinn is free this week and I'm probably not gonna play much this week :I
this mrn house tour is some next level shit: http://www.gamespot.com/league-of-l...-a-tour-of-the-team-mrn-gaming-house-6407840/
IsayFever
Member
Bait team into a safe fight, flash over the fight and roll for the turret. Pop ult and zhonyas and just huehuehue as the turret melts
Okay, I was wondering why people keep pinging those things in ARAM. I have been like; 'Yes, they are very cute.'
This is my favorite thing on the entire page.
This is in my opinion the problem with any sort of example people can give. In the end if people do not want to believe something, they simply won't, and they can feel they are right simply because there is not really a possible way that they can be 100% proved wrong:
- If they say it works, or show a single game's result, people can act like maybe it's an isolated occurrence.
- If they show a page full of similar scores, people can say scores don't matter, and they were carried.
- If they show a page of blind pick wins, people can dismiss them as not being draft.
- If they show a page of normal draft wins, people can dismiss them as not being ranked.
- If they show a page of ranked, people can dismiss them as being terrible bronze players.
- If they show a page of gold wins, people can dismiss people at gold as still being terrible, or say their hidden MMR must be low.
- If they show results from a major tourney, people can dismiss the other team as garbage/playing like garbage.
- If they show results from diamond/challenger, people can dismiss it as something that only works at high level (this argument might also be used for tourney results or platinum results).
So in the end, I don't think most people will be convinced by anything they don't want to believe.
On a different note, does anyone know how the icons work? It just says win 10 normal or ranked matches to unlock it permanently, but is there any number or something that indicates if you are successfully making progress on the icon?
SenorArdilla
Member
Apparently, the clock at the bottom left of the icon disappears if you unlocked it successfully.
I wouldn't really take that stance, I mean I personally think that I don't really know a whole lot about the game and think that I can consistently work on my play or learn new stuff. all the things you listed are kinda unfortunate but still effectively sayable, it probably just says more about the nature of how anecdotal evidence isn't really passable. I've always been in the camp that you only really learn the game by playing the game and that this isn't particularly translatable through words, like you can see how something works for you (and the others you play with) but it's often hard to get this across to others (whether they are worse or better than you at the game) and a lot of the time it's not something worthy to pass on
in regards to like translatable information you can talk about objective shit like "jayce can q and then e, which makes for a faster hadoken instead of e and then q". ppl are pretty resistant to expressions of 1 player situational experiences that leave out 9 factors
in regards to like translatable information you can talk about objective shit like "jayce can q and then e, which makes for a faster hadoken instead of e and then q". ppl are pretty resistant to expressions of 1 player situational experiences that leave out 9 factors
I'm just saying, if people are open to an idea, especially characters in unusual roles or with unusual builds, they may at least try it to see if it works for them, or think "Hmm, just because it worked for them doesn't mean it's effective, but then again, if it's effective for them, maybe it could be effective for me too."
If people aren't open to an idea, there are all sorts of reasons like the ones I mentioned that people can throw at it -- not because the particular reason is valid or not -- but because they don't want to acknowledge the possibility, and wish to feel they are logically justified about it.
Now of course there are specific ingame arguments you can make about things, which some people are doing (e.g. "having two AD is generally a bad idea because in teamfights XYZ happens"). That's great if that happens and people can still be openminded and considerate.
Excellent, thanks!
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
ARAM is fun till you get a kid who gets Garen and grabs Zhonya's. :|
I dunno summons, that kind of logic kind of assumes that there is something of value to the idea that is accessible to the viewer of the idea, like I dunno if I'm an optimist or something but I think most people would be able to identify things of value to them and would be willing to test them out. obviously there is a kinda hivemindish line of thought towards certain ideas but to me that just represents adherence to meta, which represents an adherence to the other players in your game.
innovations in league tend to address the meta in a meaningful way, but it's something pretty complicated and out of hand for a lot of the players here and usually relegated to the most visible players of this game
like being resistant to the idea that ap gangplank is gr8 seems like a good thing to me, I don't think that careful consideration of all the idea vomit of the public is necessary
innovations in league tend to address the meta in a meaningful way, but it's something pretty complicated and out of hand for a lot of the players here and usually relegated to the most visible players of this game
like being resistant to the idea that ap gangplank is gr8 seems like a good thing to me, I don't think that careful consideration of all the idea vomit of the public is necessary
Maybe you are correct, and maybe most people are reasonable and can tell if ideas are good or not. I think that you seem to make a dual argument though, that on one hand, people in general are smart enough to know if an idea is worth trying even before trying it, and on the other hand, people in general aren't smart enough to understand worthwhile changes to the meta, and that's restricted to the most visible players of the game.
I could be misunderstanding you, but it does seem a little conflicted.
woops it's actually kinda simple
people have different circumstances; being the only people cognizant of these circumstances (and to an extent the people they play with, the elo, whatever) I believe they have a better idea of what is relevant to them than I could provide. I can tell someone that having no jungler aint so great, but if they consistently play in an arena where there are consistently two players top I could be fucking them over. that's like an extreme example of what I mean, but you can kinda make it fit in less extreme ways
this is connected to the idea of the meta, the environment that dictates whether it is ludicrous to have ad mid or whatever. the idea here is that ad mid was not viable in that current meta until it was shifted by like lee sin froggen or something; throwing lee sin mid would not have the same legitimacy applied to it in these two environments. there may be changes in patches to support the meta or there may not, but this meta environment (which is different for different players; "visible players" can be extended to like just the ppl you play with constantly) is another important facet of play. like what I mean when I talk about an idea being accessible is connected to the lines of thought relevant to your specific elo or meta or whatever
this kinda makes it seem like everything is relational, but it's also pretty easy to point at styles of play that everyone has access to.
like you can see people playing fotm incorrectly or just not applying them in ways that make sense; ppl playing lee mid but it has like absolutely nothing to add to their team and they just play it like a farm lane for example
basically: meta changes are more meaningful for players because they affect the general playership as a whole. we are able to trust them but not necessarily identify how to use them correctly. this helps explain why certain ideas are laughed down or ignored, but it also makes a lot of sense because it is a collective laughing that solidifies a type of play with your particular community; it means that you have, in a way, identified something about your particular climate.
I type bloated sentences cuz I write da paper
u cant tell dog to try chocolate because they might like it
people have different circumstances; being the only people cognizant of these circumstances (and to an extent the people they play with, the elo, whatever) I believe they have a better idea of what is relevant to them than I could provide. I can tell someone that having no jungler aint so great, but if they consistently play in an arena where there are consistently two players top I could be fucking them over. that's like an extreme example of what I mean, but you can kinda make it fit in less extreme ways
this is connected to the idea of the meta, the environment that dictates whether it is ludicrous to have ad mid or whatever. the idea here is that ad mid was not viable in that current meta until it was shifted by like lee sin froggen or something; throwing lee sin mid would not have the same legitimacy applied to it in these two environments. there may be changes in patches to support the meta or there may not, but this meta environment (which is different for different players; "visible players" can be extended to like just the ppl you play with constantly) is another important facet of play. like what I mean when I talk about an idea being accessible is connected to the lines of thought relevant to your specific elo or meta or whatever
this kinda makes it seem like everything is relational, but it's also pretty easy to point at styles of play that everyone has access to.
like you can see people playing fotm incorrectly or just not applying them in ways that make sense; ppl playing lee mid but it has like absolutely nothing to add to their team and they just play it like a farm lane for example
basically: meta changes are more meaningful for players because they affect the general playership as a whole. we are able to trust them but not necessarily identify how to use them correctly. this helps explain why certain ideas are laughed down or ignored, but it also makes a lot of sense because it is a collective laughing that solidifies a type of play with your particular community; it means that you have, in a way, identified something about your particular climate.
I type bloated sentences cuz I write da paper
u cant tell dog to try chocolate because they might like it
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
I love the feeling of coming back from a lost game just from pure mechanics. We lost the early game really hard. Like 1-6 at 12 minutes hard. But after taking 2 uncontested dragons from superior warding we started coming back and destroying with our teamfighting team. Fiddle, Panth, Kat, Sona, Trist. That, and the poor support Lulu ran AP quints against me so she fell even further behind because of a lack of passive gold (even though she had a kage's +Philoto my Philo.
I was actually debating it at the time but buying an oracles was such a boon to our team I think it was worth delaying my aegis to take map control.
I was actually debating it at the time but buying an oracles was such a boon to our team I think it was worth delaying my aegis to take map control.
But the discrete splices of community collectively come together as they reinforce their beliefs in the echo chamber known as "the metagame". This noise creates a mental paralysis that implies that people would be unable to appreciate valuable or truely innovative answers. Ironically, this is worse near the top [silver-plat] as the desire for victory is wrongly equated with adherence to the metagame. Whats really important regarding the particular discussion is that everybody should be allowed to have reasonable responses to the meta and that the particular culture created by "collective laughing" is counter-intuitive to individual circumstances and metagames.
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hey look, NA SUPERSTA ARE COMING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wcfEYmzAto&feature=youtu.be
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http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/24129-unofficial-pbe-patch-notes-for-5-2-2013
PBE NOTES WITH SOME TPA SKIN MODELS
also, interesting nunubuffs. he will gain different stats based upon what his yeti ate last - heal is nerfed.
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