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[brian!]

@bloken
but value is directly linked to how it interacts with the metagame in a biiig way
rather than creating mental paralysis it just situates your thought onto a particular field

like in my field objectives are privileged, but in someone else's field kills might be privileged. the construction of a team at my elo might then revolve around creating comps that want to get at a certain strength and then group to get stuff, and the other one might have lots of assassins or adcs and try to snowball and run over their enemy team. so like in this example, someone saying that ap gp is op I gots the kda doesn't really work for me and I can safely deny it

but we both look at pro games and think, hey that might help me out. so like the second example person might see that oddone had a really good kda w/ cho and play cho in jangle and I might see where oddone is at certain times in the game and how being cho helps him in the situations he puts himself in (who he chooses to gunk, feast smiting drogon). its a pretty shitty example, but im just trying to say that beyond specific elo metas there is also this overarching more official meta that affects things in different ways depending on different wants

like that echo chamber definitely exists but lower level players definitely suffer more from adhering to it, maybe that's why a lot of bizarre new shit comes from that camp

but I mean there are obviously people who use bizarre new shit to great success, ap trynd was strong for a good while before it got popular, but it was popularized by becoming visible in specific ways. it only became valuable when it started being accepted. it kind of sounds like a nitpick, but there was a distinct difference in what it would be like to pick trynd top before and after it became popular. and the conception of the viability of tryndamere materially affects the game, like playing with a teammate that picked wtf tryndamere vs. tried and true ap trynd makes for a different game


alright I guess I'm having fun writing big ol blocks, but the tl;dr is that you can't tell people what to do and they have real reasons for not doing what you want them to do

 

[Wolf Akela]

I need to learn that late game Lee Sin should be peeling for carries instead of diving carries.

---

ALL ABOARD THE NERF BOAT

Nunu being reworked into Doombringer-lite.

Diana
Pale Cascade [ W ] - Now deals 22/34/46/58/70, changed from 20/35/50/65/80
Pale Cascade [ W ] - Now shields for 40/55/70/85/100 (+0.3*AP) (Down from 55/80/105/130/155 (+0.45*AP))

Lux
Prismatic Barrier [ W ] - now shields for 50/65/80/95/110(+0.25*AP) (down from 80/105/130/155/180(+0.35*AP))

 

[Boken]

but I mean there are obviously people who use bizarre new shit to great success, ap trynd was strong for a good while before it got popular, but it was popularized by becoming visible in specific ways. it only became valuable when it started being accepted. it kind of sounds like a nitpick, but there was a distinct difference in what it would be like to pick trynd top before and after it became popular. and the conception of the viability of tryndamere materially affects the game, like playing with a teammate that picked wtf tryndamere vs. tried and true ap trynd makes for a different game

you are creating a chicken and egg scenario because things are only valuable when they are acceptabled but they can only be accepted if they are valuable. it is more a perception problem. solve by:

alright I guess I'm having fun writing big ol blocks, but the tl;dr is that you can't tell people what to do and they have real reasons for not doing what you want them to do

tl;dr - i speak normatively - yes people have real reasons as logical and reasonable beings but people should be more open and receptive to differences and rather than looking for reasons why something is a bad idea, it is actually simpler and more constructive to find out if the idea contains anything good. As you have real reasons for not doing something, the suggester has to have a real reason for suggesting it.
----

Consider the "official meta" (true meta) an optimal truth in the universe of league that cannot be completely ascertained by any individual segment, but different shards and colours are reflected to each level of play (individual meta)

While they are limited to their own perception of the meta, people should be allowed to transcend their circumstances and innovate for the whole without each individual trying to drag him down simply because he cannot speak to them holistically in "their meta" since the innovation is an attempt to communicate with the "official meta"

this must be the case because if the true meta cannot completely measured, each segment sees an equally valid representation of it - but each person is offered different glimpses of the picture and it is inevitable that some reflections are more applicable to other metagames as well.

it is like a communication with god versus a communication with all the religions based upon him. our innovators claim to see the face of god until they is pulled apart by the obstinate "believers". each religion only accepts their chosen representative prophets, above all else. but god speaks to each person and to ignore that means to ignore the nature of god in the first place

 

[bjaelke]

I like those Nunu changes. Top Lane Nunu has got to die.

 

[zkylon]

fuck this shit

 

[Ferga]

I need to learn that late game Lee Sin should be peeling for carries instead of diving carries.

---

ALL ABOARD THE NERF BOAT

Nunu being reworked into Doombringer-lite.

You can dive carries as lee sin.

The only reason people say Lee-Sin falls off late game is because it's near impossible to hit a Q on the carries due to positioning.

But if you are able to hit a Q on a carry, you can instagib them if you're playing lane Lee-Sin and build a good amount of ad items.

 

[Schmattakopf]

hey look, NA SUPERSTA ARE COMING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wcfEYmzAto&feature=youtu.be

Haha, this is so dumb.

 

[Wolf Akela]

You can dive carries as lee sin.

The only reason people say Lee-Sin falls off late game is because it's near impossible to hit a Q on the carries due to positioning.

But if you are able to hit a Q on a carry, you can instagib them if you're playing lane Lee-Sin and build a good amount of ad items.

I built defensively (Merc, BT, Randuin, GA, Locket, wards) though since it's just me and Leona as frontliners. We had a fed Ez, but they had a lot of all-in champs. I tried diving a very starved Vayne and it didn't end well for me.

I still need more practice. I missed a lot of Qs and I still can't do ward->W->ult back properly. Do you go QWE or QEW when jungling?

 

[Ferga]

I built defensively (Merc, BT, Randuin, GA, Locket, wards) though since it's just me and Leona as frontliners. We had a fed Ez, but they had a lot of all-in champs. I tried diving a very starved Vayne and it didn't end well for me.

I still need more practice. I missed a lot of Qs and I still can't do ward->W->ult back properly. Do you go QWE or QEW when jungling?

I use to go Q back in season 1 and early season 2 for heavy counter jungling and ganking. But that doesn't seem like the most efficient way to play lee anymore. So now, I max E first.

E-W-Q

Maxing W/Q second is situational.

I haven't played Lee in about 2 months though after my ping permanently increased by 60 so things may have changed.

Main reason why I loved playing Lee sin was his jungle and dragon control. And you only need one rank in Q for it to work against dragon and major buffs (cap of 400 damage on monsters/creeps). You can never be out-smited.

 

[Type2]

Guys guys, I got placed in ranked =] Starting off at bronze 1 and hopefully moving on up!

 

[bjaelke]

Truck driver Yorick.

 

[Ferga]

I had a revelation while doing some work today.

I no longer fear ranked because there are less throws in higher gold elo. /People know what sieging and disengaging is

Whenever I am able to get the first dragon for the team, I will usually win the game.

Huzzah!

 

[Musician]

So.. buy Lissandra or no? My only option is RP

 

[bjaelke]

She's highly contested right now, so you're not guaranteed to play her. Definitely worth picking up. Very strong and has an interesting kit.

 

[Ferga]

I think GAF should have a TPA skin team....

anyone want to join me in doing this? Imagine all the commotion in draft games.

 

[erragal]

Lots of shakeup happening. Kinda surprised no Zed or Khaz changes yet; once we get those added in the summer half of lcs is looking really exciting.

 

[garath]

Guys guys, I got placed in ranked =] Starting off at bronze 1 and hopefully moving on up!

Congrats! Don't get discouraged and keep a good attitude. You'll climb

 

[Ken]

You guys should buy soul sacrifice instead of writing blocks of text.

 

[garath]

You guys should buy soul sacrifice instead of writing blocks of text.

Too busy playing P4G.

 

[Ken]

Too busy playing P4G.

That you should have completed the month it came out.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Closer, do me a favour and try it. For me.

----------

Damn those Diana nerfs. That really hurts her jungle. Don't see why they feel the need to nerf her. She's not pick or ban and she's been in a pretty good spot since they reverted some of her nerfs.

You guys should buy soul sacrifice instead of writing blocks of text.

Is it actually good. I've heard good or bad things. Was thinking of getting my preorder down today to get the bonuses (comes out tomorrow over here) but still unsure.

 

[falastini]

Has Elise gotten any changes other then nerfs since she was released? It sure seems that way.


Team winter's claw

Spoiler

and the other two http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1dhpwy/a_winters_claw_wallpaper_by_me/

 

[brian!]

you are creating a chicken and egg scenario because things are only valuable when they are acceptabled but they can only be accepted if they are valuable. it is more a perception problem. solve by:

tl;dr - i speak normatively - yes people have real reasons as logical and reasonable beings but people should be more open and receptive to differences and rather than looking for reasons why something is a bad idea, it is actually simpler and more constructive to find out if the idea contains anything good. As you have real reasons for not doing something, the suggester has to have a real reason for suggesting it.
----

Consider the "official meta" (true meta) an optimal truth in the universe of league that cannot be completely ascertained by any individual segment, but different shards and colours are reflected to each level of play (individual meta)

While they are limited to their own perception of the meta, people should be allowed to transcend their circumstances and innovate for the whole without each individual trying to drag him down simply because he cannot speak to them holistically in "their meta" since the innovation is an attempt to communicate with the "official meta"

this must be the case because if the true meta cannot completely measured, each segment sees an equally valid representation of it - but each person is offered different glimpses of the picture and it is inevitable that some reflections are more applicable to other metagames as well.

it is like a communication with god versus a communication with all the religions based upon him. our innovators claim to see the face of god until they is pulled apart by the obstinate "believers". each religion only accepts their chosen representative prophets, above all else. but god speaks to each person and to ignore that means to ignore the nature of god in the first place

I don't think you're disagreeing with me here

 

[Boken]

You guys should buy soul sacrifice instead of writing blocks of text.

does it have online coop?


i bought a dslr and FE instead of a vita

I don't think you're disagreeing with me here

im not im using you to further my point

 

[brian!]

woops sry boken
I wrote a wall of text tho so I'll leave it here anyway


to speak on dat chicken egg: for me value is not a state but something changeable. so like something being widely accepted increases value, not that an idea is inherently valueless before it is accepted.

but maybe I'm talking more about the assumption that certain ideas aren't thought about or received properly; I think they are
I've thought about ap gp for the amount of time I thought it deserved, and the amount of time I think it deserves relates to how I relate to the game (amnt of time is bad choice here, cuz I'm still writing books about it, but I'm not implementing it in play atm)

ideally someone should be able to individualistic innovate and contribute but I don't really think that's something forcible on other people, like just do your own thing man and don't worry about ppl accepting your ideas. I don't think anything I'm saying is anything against trying new stuff, just that summons's narrative of "ppl trying to bring me down, never gave it a chance, my idea gold" is kind of off the mark for me.

i am sorry that I am using the board to write about things that aren't my paper topic so I don't go insane

 

[Burt]

Truck driver Yorick.

Except he's a construction worker, not a truck driver.

 

[Jazzy Network]

I think GAF should have a TPA skin team....

anyone want to join me in doing this? Imagine all the commotion in draft games.

Only if I can play Mundo.

 

[Diprosalic]

So.. buy Lissandra or no? My only option is RP

i would like to know as well. i keep hording my RP. my champ pool is pathetic and only play the free ones. pretty sure my "playtime/amount of champions owned" ratio is the lowest around here.

 

[Blizzard]

Does anyone have good suggestions specific to Nautilus support, or is the answer almost always that Nautilus should only be used in the top lane or jungle? I finally bought him yesterday (before even a 6300 price reduction!) to try as support.

Given the big closer text blocks perhaps I should specify that my user context is terrible silver/gold players.

 

[Subtle]

Does anyone have good suggestions specific to Nautilus support, or is the answer almost always that Nautilus should only be used in the top lane or jungle? I finally bought him yesterday (before even a 6300 price reduction!) to try as support.

Given the big closer text blocks perhaps I should specify that my user context is terrible silver/gold players.

He's got a good amount of cc. I like him.

 

[Cathcart]

So are people receiving the upgraded versions of the Freljord summoner icons yet? Are they much different or do they just not have the little circle thing?

I think GAF should have a TPA skin team....

anyone want to join me in doing this? Imagine all the commotion in draft games.

Ori is one of my top 3 most played champs and I hate that skin. So sad that we might have to wait another year and a half for another one. Why Riot hates Ori.

 

[PROGRAM_IX]

Does anyone have good suggestions specific to Nautilus support, or is the answer almost always that Nautilus should only be used in the top lane or jungle? I finally bought him yesterday (before even a 6300 price reduction!) to try as support.

Given the big closer text blocks perhaps I should specify that my user context is terrible silver/gold players.

My friend plays him support in normals pretty regularly, kill steals and crazy escapes all day. I dunno if that's just him though. He tends to buy tanky/AP rather than support items, and it works well. He's Bronze II, but we play a fair bit of premade normals and the rest of our team are ranked higher, so take from this vague anecdotal evidence what you will.

 

[kiunchbb]

So on the PBE patch that they roll back...

Diana
Pale Cascade ( W ) damage readjusted to 22/34/46/58/70 from 20/35/50/65/80.
Pale Cascade ( W ) shield lowered to 40/55/70/85/100 + .3 AP from 55/80/105/130/155 + .45

Lux
Prismatic Barrier ( W ) shield lowered to 50/65/80/95/110 + .25 AP from 80/105/130/155/180 + .35 AP

However the first and second shield proc will now stack instead of replacing each other. I felt this is a nerf since you only cast shield when enemy is attacking, and level 1 shield will break in one auto attack. Almost in every fight, the first shield will break from the damage before the second hit.

And why are they buffing TF ult? -.- I hope this patch never come back.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

So in the end, I don't think most people will be convinced by anything they don't want to believe.

Not true.

I've been made a believer in several things I thought were crazy, like roaming Annie/Xerath, Thresh top, etc.

I need to SEE how it works, replays, etc. Don't just explain it, prove it.

 

[bjaelke]

Except he's a construction worker, not a truck driver.

Blue Collar Yorick.

So on the PBE patch that they roll back...

Diana
Pale Cascade ( W ) damage readjusted to 22/34/46/58/70 from 20/35/50/65/80.
Pale Cascade ( W ) shield lowered to 40/55/70/85/100 + .3 AP from 55/80/105/130/155 + .45

Lux
Prismatic Barrier ( W ) shield lowered to 50/65/80/95/110 + .25 AP from 80/105/130/155/180 + .35 AP

However the first and second shield proc will now stack instead of replacing each other. I felt this is a nerf since you only cast shield when enemy is attacking, and level 1 shield will break in one auto attack. Almost in every fight, the first shield will break from the damage before the second hit.

And why are they buffing TF ult? -.- I hope this patch never come back.

With 500 AP on Lux you get a shield that absorb 470 damage IF you manage to stack it and only a 355 shield with the old mechanic.

 

[Blizzard]

Not true.

I've been made a believer in several things I thought were crazy, like roaming Annie/Xerath, Thresh top, etc.

I need to SEE how it works, replays, etc. Don't just explain it, prove it.

I think that's great then! That's exactly what I was talking about in terms of seeing something happen, and considering whether it can work at your play level/context/meta/ranking/zone if there's not an outright technical reason against it. I just felt that the majority of players do not operate that way, but obviously that's a subjective feeling and it's not like I have any player statistics to prove it.

My friend plays him support in normals pretty regularly, kill steals and crazy escapes all day. I dunno if that's just him though. He tends to buy tanky/AP rather than support items, and it works well. He's Bronze II, but we play a fair bit of premade normals and the rest of our team are ranked higher, so take from this vague anecdotal evidence what you will.

I was also trying for tanky AP, but since I did not do well early my big issue was having no gold. I settled for having tons of wards and the ward stone, and protecting people when I could. I like the idea of buying morello's with the GP item, but then again I also feel like I would want to buy it early which would mean I didn't get the effect of GP for very long. It's a similar conundrum for early philo stone since I seem to remember there being a point at which you've mathematically got enough gold to pay for the original item cost etc.

 

[Wolf Akela]

And why are they buffing TF ult? -.- I hope this patch never come back.

It's actually a significant nerf.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

I just don't understand why they're nerfing champions like Diana, who I think is in a great spot, without properly addressing how ridiculous Zed and Kha'Zix are.

I don't think the TF nerf is gonna reduce his popularity all that much, but I kinda wish it would. TF split push comps are so incredibly boring to watch.

 

[bjaelke]

Supportekaiser is, apparently, a legit build

 

[mercviper]

Supportekaiser is, apparently, a legit build

I think you'd be better off with Support Ashe.

 

[scy]

Eh, the TF nerf will weaken his Level 6/11 power spike. Wasted ults will mean a little more. Then again, it's not like he was ulting on cooldown anyway so ... we'll see, I suppose?

They pulled the patch so lets wait a bit for revised numbers before going crazy.

Supportekaiser is, apparently, a legit build

Not really. At least, not really for solo queue. Especially for those support players who don't know how to properly zone. The gimmick here is the wave shove and the built-in tank off his ultimate when it nabs a kill. I wouldn't really think of it as have any real long term viability.

The same for a lot of other unconventional supports. They're too gold starved to function long term so their goal is usually trying to fulfill an early-to-mid game gambit.

 

[Wolf Akela]

I just don't understand why they're nerfing champions like Diana, who I think is in a great spot, without properly addressing how ridiculous Zed and Kha'Zix area.

One step at a time hopefully. You have to realize Diana's shield was 310 (+90% AP) that also damages enemies around her. It's like Sion's shield without the cooldown between casting and explosion.

Still keeping my fingers crossed for Kha nerfs. It's just dumb how much free damage he gets from his passive.

 

[scy]

Still keeping my fingers crossed for Kha nerfs. It's just dumb how much free damage he gets from his passive.

They've stated awhile back that they're looking into revamping his evolutions so there's some choice involved. I imagine he'll get a retuning alongside that.

 

[garath]

I just don't understand why they're nerfing champions like Diana, who I think is in a great spot, without properly addressing how ridiculous Zed and Kha'Zix are.

I don't think the TF nerf is gonna reduce his popularity all that much, but I kinda wish it would. TF split push comps are so incredibly boring to watch.

Lane diana is still really really strong. That shield with AP is huge and refreshes.

 

[zkylon]

You guys should buy soul sacrifice instead of writing blocks of text.

too busy playing fez aka being too poor to buy a psvita

Does anyone have good suggestions specific to Nautilus support, or is the answer almost always that Nautilus should only be used in the top lane or jungle? I finally bought him yesterday (before even a 6300 price reduction!) to try as support.

Given the big closer text blocks perhaps I should specify that my user context is terrible silver/gold players.

I've had moderate success playing him as support, but I dunno, I think leona's better at it.

So on the PBE patch that they roll back...

Diana
Pale Cascade ( W ) damage readjusted to 22/34/46/58/70 from 20/35/50/65/80.
Pale Cascade ( W ) shield lowered to 40/55/70/85/100 + .3 AP from 55/80/105/130/155 + .45

Lux
Prismatic Barrier ( W ) shield lowered to 50/65/80/95/110 + .25 AP from 80/105/130/155/180 + .35 AP

However the first and second shield proc will now stack instead of replacing each other. I felt this is a nerf since you only cast shield when enemy is attacking, and level 1 shield will break in one auto attack. Almost in every fight, the first shield will break from the damage before the second hit.

huh, I guess it's better than a straight up nerf... we'll see

I mean, it's still pretty fucking huge nerf, but this makes me hopeful they won't rape her like they did eve or diana...

And why are they buffing TF ult? -.- I hope this patch never come back.

it's a 30-15-0 cooldown nerf. puts him at almost karthus cooldown levels...

I just don't understand why they're nerfing champions like Diana, who I think is in a great spot, without properly addressing how ridiculous Zed and Kha'Zix are.

by that logic, why bother with diana if there's still the heimer rework to be done?

or buffs to ashe, warwick, sion rework, adding 70 more buffs to quinn and karma, and all that other stuff

they just do shit in the order they feel like it, maybe because they can't figure out how to buff/nerf/rework someone or because some changes are simpler than others (like nerf too much out of zed and you may turn him into trash like they did with eve).

I do feel your pain for the diana nerf. both shield nerfs are huge.

 

[scy]

Eve isn't in that bad of a spot right now. Unless you're referring to the old Eve from way back when.

 

[zkylon]

Eve isn't in that bad of a spot right now. Unless you're referring to the old Eve from way back when.

(new eve) maybe not, but she got every single spell nerfed, so she just feels a shadow of what she was at one point (which was op as fuck).

same with diana, all her spells nerfed, though she's now actually pretty strong after they rolled back a bit on her ult.

 

[bjaelke]

Not really. At least, not really for solo queue. Especially for those support players who don't know how to properly zone. The gimmick here is the wave shove and the built-in tank off his ultimate when it nabs a kill. I wouldn't really think of it as have any real long term viability.

The same for a lot of other unconventional supports. They're too gold starved to function long term so their goal is usually trying to fulfill an early-to-mid game gambit.

I was specifically referring to that OGN match where they last-picked Mordekaiser. At the time I thought it was a miss-click and they intended to pick Morgana.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Still waiting for a Sivir model rework.

The passive buff was nice though.

 

[scy]

(new eve) maybe not, but she got every single spell nerfed, so she just feels a shadow of what she was at one point (which was op as fuck).

same with diana, all her spells nerfed, though she's now actually pretty strong after they rolled back a bit on her ult.

True. Like I said though, let's wait a bit and see how things pan out. I'm a bit sad too since I do play Lux as well.

I was specifically referring to that OGN match where they last-picked Mordekaiser. At the time I thought it was a miss-click and they intended to pick Morgana.

I know the game (and ... you linked it). I was just commenting on it not really being something outside of that instance. Since someone was going to inevitably go "PROS DID IT."

I mean, I guess I could have waited for someone to go "sweet, trying it" or something.

Still waiting for a Sivir model rework.

riot pls ;____;