Liberty4all
Banned
Thanks maybe I'll give it a shot.
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League of Legends |OT5| Premade Bot
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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Thanks maybe I'll give it a shot.
Mister Negative
Member
I say Trundle. I've been playing him in the past couple of days and he's incredibly fun. I was watching someone's stream while they played Trundle, I think it may have been SivHD, and he said that Trundle has kind of an "infinite skill cap" because you're always figuring out new things to do with his pillar, since it can interrupt channels and do all sorts of stuff.
KiwiLannister
Member
1st: your build should be completely dependent on the game you are in. Having a set build is not a smart idea.
2nd: get boots. Always get boots. Boots boots boots.
3rd: Alistar is a support. Don't build ap on him. Something like Talisman + Merc Treads + Mikaels + Sightstone + Randuins + Banshees is a decent build.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Jungle Trundle welcomes him with open arms. I know you said "pretty much" so you didn't literally mean "everyone," but fuck it!
You'll probably have an easier time experimenting with Trundle after your aforementioned Volibear session. Fundamentally he fills the same role as the bear, namely being beefy auto-attacking bruiser with a sudden sustain spike and the ability to knock-up + slow (albeit combined into one spell) for his crowd control. They also both bite people. Trundle however does it with more safety, with better innate stats in certain categories (attack speed buff and on-demand survivability), with stronger dueling potential early should he be invaded and with more utility; Volibear's AoE damage ult being the key difference here. Jungle Trundle is also really well suited for mid champions that are focused on poke like Nidalee / Ziggs / Lux / Xerath / Vel'koz, since once you know the max distance of your Pillar you can attempt setting one up in such a way that x deployed skill will end up connecting with near certainty. Fun and satisfying mini-game of his, which is why I max his Pillar second unless I need to concentrate on farming instead. Madred's Razor (without upgrading it) is also kind of preferable over Spirit Stone, since the latter doesn't really speed up his camp clearing unfortunately and he only needs Ancient Golem if he's the team's only frontline. You'll admittedly miss out on the gold income - I'm hoping the new Wriggle's fits him like a glove - but on the flipside, he racks up assists like it's nothing once he clicks with you. Definitely focus on establishing map control and securing objectives too with Trundle.
Don't think you'll need much practice with Udyr either, but much like Volibear and Trundle he tends to get kited. He's not bad, but he has less tools than the other two to overcome said weakness.
I was playing Trundle on PBE for a few rounds earlier to test out Wriggle's, and me + this skilled Ziggs were almost 2 vs 5'ing the entire enemy team to victory. Trundle + Ziggs synergy is fantastic, especially when you time Pillar + Ziggs ult at just the right moment so that it's virtually impossible for the enemy to not receive the brunt of its damage. Sadly we still lost, because our Elise ragequit and our remaining two allies were... top lane AP Alistar as well as squishy AD Nautilus. Both were constantly bickering among one another and they rarely helped us. Eventually the enemy just started catching up because of it. What a shitfest that was, even if I've learned to accept these kind of matches with how common they are on PBE.
theyre probably reverting the changes due to wanting to push out da next patch real hard
the biggest endorsement should be that LoL is the closest to SMITE
ARE YOU GUYS READY FOR OGN SPRING?!
Mister Wilhelm said:
That's what I ended up deciding, thanks for the input though!
SOLD!!
I've actually played Trundle in the Jungle (tee hee) a few times and worked very well. For some reason despite having like 90% of champions I keep getting him in ARAM and I do very well there too. Fun champ.
What I'm specifically wondering is that if I have the likes of Xin, Trundle, and a few other junglers who are capable of counter-jungling quite well based on the match-up, is that sufficient to counter picks like Amumu, or would I benefit from learning a champion who is exceptional in that sort of role, like the aforementioned Udyr?
(Keeping in my that my goal is to shrink my jungle picks to 4-5 champs with a few back-ups for particular situations/team compositions)
Also, tentative Lee Sin changes for those interested. Let the meltdown over fair changes begin!
which is why gragas is getting his kit reworked?
like i don't get why u go straight towards bashing rito for some random unrelated thing (like kassadin is op, nidalee is op, leona is op, that doesn't mean lee sin isn't fucking annoying to play against!) while being uninformed about it in the first place :/
He's getting his kit reworked...when? I have not seen a single post from Riot more recent than the May, 2013 post when they say he's fun and fine. They've hinted at it, but nothing in stone. Just like all those reworks they've been talking about forever, right? Sion, Poppy, etc.
There are so many more pressing issues than Lee Sin. And it's not unrelated. They talk SPECIFICALLY about utility vs damage. Gragas's ult does both and is an absolute menace.
Please link a rework for Gragas that is more than "we're looking into it!".
zkylon pls kass op rito dnt nerf idote teamates dnt ban, uninstall pls
Mister Negative
Member
aw man i got an update and i thought teambuilder was up i was v excited
it's the same as this, they've said they were trying to make him into more of a bruisery mage (rather than a straight mage with free random shit) and there were some tests on pbe of giving his ult really shitty damage but lower cooldowns and such. they nerfed gragas and kassadin on 4.3 on the basis that they're both op and they'll be getting reworks. i think morello already said kass, gragas and nida are the top 3 issues they want to deal.
like I find lee sin a much more troublesome champion since he's in like 90% of the games. like literally he's pick or ban in ranked and he's just personally the most annoying champion in the game. nothing about his kit feels fair or fun to play against and you never feel outplayed (like i've felt against lebonks and zeds and oriannas and whatnot), just beat by a guy that has to hit one skillshot and you're dead.
grago for me is less problematic since he's not in every single game, competitive or otherwise, and he's already getting nerfed so i dunno why you need to compare them
i mean they both should get fixed, i've been saying old xerath and ziggs were broken forever and like even if they're not played much they deserved getting nerfed but like u said, priorities.
like i didn't really wanted to call you out but i'm tired of that line of thinking of "my favorite champion shouldn't be nerfed because someone else's more op!".
also sorry but i'm too lazy to look for the specific posts of meddler or whoever was it. but it was 2014 or late 2013 at worst
gg afk at fountain ff at 20 no ban susan
Ready doesnt even fucking describe it
Wolf Akela
Member
Oh my god so good
Imperfected
Member
ARE YOU GUYS READY FOR OGN SPRING?!
Who is this untamed sex panther?!
Man, I miss the Korean nightclub scene, even if walking around Hongdae made me feel like pre-VU Trundle.
Imperfected
Member
They actually have a pretty sick indie scene there, music-wise. And a Hello Kitty Cafe!
nerd
SteveWinwood
Member
white college girl
Mister Negative
Member
remember when fiddle support was a thing
rip died too young
rip died too young
Imperfected
Member
Canadian nerd.
Definitely seems like decent changes. Him not getting loads of free magic damage on E is good.
just played an aram with lizzy and her ult range felt so short
I wonder if they stealth nerfed it in this patch, I have a ton of games with her and it felt really strange
tehn again it's 7 am so I'm not at my best
too bad lee sin dont use no mana cause they b stackin em tearz 750/750
I wonder if they stealth nerfed it in this patch, I have a ton of games with her and it felt really strange
tehn again it's 7 am so I'm not at my best
too bad lee sin dont use no mana cause they b stackin em tearz 750/750
Imperfected
Member
I'm the guy who doesn't think Lee is OP, and I'm still fine with these changes. If anything, I'm annoyed that the attack speed buff might actually give him a functional late game compared to his current arc of "hit 30 minutes in and just start trying to get one epic triangle kick off before dying miserably in team fights".
I kind of liked watching pro Lee Sin players* flounder around trying to still be relevant with a Randuin's, Ruby Sightstone, Ancient Golem Spirit and a Banshee's Veil. Like they just stumbled into the shop and said, "I need a pile of absolute shit! For reasons!"
*This is a bald-faced lie. I'm completely tired of Lee Sin and the reason I like these nerfs is because I hope they actually do put him in the ground. I blame his strong early game to miserable late game transition for a lot of the problems teams are having this season not being able to close out games in a reasonable fashion.
I kind of liked watching pro Lee Sin players* flounder around trying to still be relevant with a Randuin's, Ruby Sightstone, Ancient Golem Spirit and a Banshee's Veil. Like they just stumbled into the shop and said, "I need a pile of absolute shit! For reasons!"
*This is a bald-faced lie. I'm completely tired of Lee Sin and the reason I like these nerfs is because I hope they actually do put him in the ground. I blame his strong early game to miserable late game transition for a lot of the problems teams are having this season not being able to close out games in a reasonable fashion.
idk, i just use google imgsearch most of the time
sometimes i go on D-A
if you play lizz on SR usually - its probably because HA has a slightly more zoomed out map, making ranges seem smaller
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Straight-up counter-jungling isn't a top priority anymore regardless of whether your champion of choice can do it, given how the penalty for being unable to defend against it is much less severe than how it used to be. I mean: it's still well worth stealing a red and/or blue buff since the pay-off is making the opposing jungler's ganks less potent and denying the mid laner the ability to freely push or harrass more often without worrying about his mana pool, but ultimately it doesn't require a whole lot of effort for the enemy jungler to regain his lost XP or gold with how the role and that part of the map has been rebalanced. Personally, I'd rather use Udyr to keep up with farm-heavy junglers like Shyvanna (since he's still reasonably fast) with Phoenix Stance or to mollywhop an all-in jungler like Pantheon if you can regularly counter-gank him with Tiger Stance.
What I'm implying is: you're better off looking at what else a champion (with the above ability) brings to the table beyond that. Trundle himself can do it too or recover from it / put up a fight against it just fine for example, but at the same time he brings multiple noteworthy benefits to his team that don't make it necessary for him to succeed at counter-jungling someone like Amumu during the early game. Much like Tiger Udyr, most melee's (when on even footing) are in a losing position if they wish to brawl Trundle or if he catches them in their own gank. His area control synergizes well with a respectable number of currently popular picks, never mind it being very dangerous approaching a team with him in it (and proper follow-up to a good Pillar) that's pressuring Dragon / Baron or is using the narrow jungle environment to their advantage. He's also a big help for sieging towers and counter-engaging, the latter due to cleverly-placed Pillars either delaying the enemy's damage or making it difficult for the opposing bruiser frontline to escape (and survive with their tankiness + AD stolen) or accomplish their goal post-initiate. There's more, but either way Udyr lacks several these in comparison and has a tougher time to get rolling in today's state of League, not to downplay his own strengths.
tl;dr - Practice a jungle champion with more flexibility and secondary uses, even if the manbearturtlebirdpig executes his (limited) niche fairly well all things considering. Trundle has the most of these, out of the picks you're interested in.
Wolf Akela
Member
Been playing mostly Thresh lately. Random mid Morg lost since a friend had problems with his connection. I'm really feeling the nerf to his AA range now. 
Really like him now though. I still do well even in bad games, though I tend to get kills early on too often.
Gonna go back with Sona games to try Spellthief.
Really like him now though. I still do well even in bad games, though I tend to get kills early on too often.Gonna go back with Sona games to try Spellthief.
PhillipCostigan
Member
In regards to the Lee Sin changes, I think they're horrible and unnecessary.
To me, Lee Sin has always represented the standard for balance in LoL. He's useful in every aspect of the game, from the lowest of bronze games all the way up to challenger, used in competitive, solo queue, SR, TT, Dominion, LCS etc. etc.
It's a champion that scales well with skill but is still usable by those without a lot of skill. He has clearly defined strengths and weaknesses, is one of the most flexible champions in the game in terms of build path and skill order. He gives the player practically unlimited amounts of choices and satisfaction. He creates "wow" moments in almost every game he's in. He represents the ideal in terms of how the game should be balance and champions should be designed.
Why you would want to mess with that I don't know. It's ridiculous.
To me, Lee Sin has always represented the standard for balance in LoL. He's useful in every aspect of the game, from the lowest of bronze games all the way up to challenger, used in competitive, solo queue, SR, TT, Dominion, LCS etc. etc.
It's a champion that scales well with skill but is still usable by those without a lot of skill. He has clearly defined strengths and weaknesses, is one of the most flexible champions in the game in terms of build path and skill order. He gives the player practically unlimited amounts of choices and satisfaction. He creates "wow" moments in almost every game he's in. He represents the ideal in terms of how the game should be balance and champions should be designed.
Why you would want to mess with that I don't know. It's ridiculous.
These changes don't change this, though. They don't change his possible build paths. Skill order, maybe. It depends on the final numbers.
Stone Ocean
Member
Riot has changed their PBE testing method, for a while now they have shipped nothing but absurd, extreme changes on the first dumps, scaling upwards until they're confortable with shipping it.
Don't freak out until they change his numbers at least 3 more times and it still looks bleak. Then you can be worried.
Don't freak out until they change his numbers at least 3 more times and it still looks bleak. Then you can be worried.
PhillipCostigan
Member
But it changes his play pattern, which is one of the most interesting, diverse, fun play patterns in the game. It punishes you by making offensive moves with ward jumping. It moves power from the fun and interactive parts of his kit to the part that is the least fun and interesting - an attack speed passive.
It changes his skills massively. It reduces choice. Tempest being physical damage is a huge nerf. It's just a really inferior skill now. No longer can you adapt your build by maxing tempest against armour stackers.
The change to his ult punishes you for making plays. Kicking people into your team for behind punishes you by doing poor damage unless you kick them through their own team on the way.
it just all comes down to the changes being unnecessary and limiting the choices of the Lee Sin player, one of the reasons why he's always been such a well designed champion.
Stone Ocean
Member
This is the only thing I agree with on the rework. By being able to adapt your skill order, you remove the ability of the enemy to actually itemize against you, specially when Tempest scales pretty nicely. It's the same bullshit we had when Jayce hammer E wrecked.
The numbers are odd and I don't feel like doing math right now - they're probably obnoxiously low -, but if there's one thing that should stick in this rework - while compensating properly and not giving it a shitty base + total AD ratio naturally - is that. Increase the slow, decrease the decay, cooldowns, energy cost, you name it. If they do it properly, Tempest will be stronger early because people will have less armor - Hello, Eve Ravage change.
Stone Ocean
Member
Dragon control without the execute on Q will hurt though.
When you start doing the Insekku you're initiating and not killing.
Also this.
When you start doing the Insekku you're initiating and not killing.
It's more of a nerf to the defensive ward hopping, as you should be able to get in range for some auto hit if you use it offensively. Ward hopping is nerfed, yes, but he won't be crippled by it. The E change is good since you can actually itemize against Lee now.
You still have enough energy to do the insec move with QQW, you can still do the plays. Utilising the passive correctly is one of the things that separate the bad Lees from the good ones anyway, so that change does promote skilful Lee play.
Stone Ocean
Member
Don't do either. You want to go full tank with maybe maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe a Wits End thrown in. You want to stay alive long enough for your damage and lifesteal to kick in.
PhillipCostigan
Member
They're also making the Cripple debuff worse by changing how the slow ticks so it'll decay quicker.
The ult change is pitiful if you want to play a more assassin/damage based Lee Sin. It's far, far worse in one-on-one situations as it does very little damage. You're basically forced into utility jungle Lee Sin. It makes him a far worse top laner and assassin coming out of the jungle. Again limiting him.
The new Cost for Safeguard means you can QQW to Insec people and then stand around like a spare tit cos that's 180 of your 200 energy.
For an AD caster the attack speed buff is practically useless and will do very little for his late game, especially since his damage builds got nerfed.
Like, I don't see how anyone can thing these changes are good or warranted.
The ult change is pitiful if you want to play a more assassin/damage based Lee Sin. It's far, far worse in one-on-one situations as it does very little damage. You're basically forced into utility jungle Lee Sin. It makes him a far worse top laner and assassin coming out of the jungle. Again limiting him.
The new Cost for Safeguard means you can QQW to Insec people and then stand around like a spare tit cos that's 180 of your 200 energy.
For an AD caster the attack speed buff is practically useless and will do very little for his late game, especially since his damage builds got nerfed.
Like, I don't see how anyone can thing these changes are good or warranted.
If you want to do damage on WW invest in cooldown reduction and attack speed items that provide on hit damage.
Wolf Akela
Member
You generally build him very tanky with mpen and cooldown reduction.
Damage items are usually either Wit's End or BoRK. Against AP heavy comps you can get away with Abyssal (if no one has it) or Athene.
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