Stone Ocean
Member
But you build Gblade for the auto attacks. When it's active it's essentially a Shiv with lots of AD and Arpen.
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League of Legends |OT6| My AP Mid Can't Be This Cute
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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That chat screen. So salty.
In all honesty, I would disagree. I think he would be better off learning the goals and roles of each position before he worries about "mastering" a certain Champion, especially a Champion outside of the context in which they will normally get used. I get your point, I simply disagree.
he's level 28 in one more game... at what point do you think he should get around to learning how to support? because there's not a ton of time left.
I definitely feel like Miss Fortune has fallen off. Maybe her kit just doesn't favor the IE rush or whatever. Maybe my play style doesn't like the new changes. I don't know what it is, but she's definitely not as good for me as she has been before 4.10. I may go back to Jinx for a bit, ride the Lucian train until his next nerf, or play someone else.
I feel like she was the one of the ADCs that was impacted the least. Like sure you can't BT+LW anymore, but who cares when you have a free attspd steroid.
Kotetsu534
Member
The first time I played bot lane with a proper support, who warded, counterwarded, harassed, peeled etc. correctly was a revelation. Made it almost impossible for me not to do well. I think until you have that game it can be tough to understand what a support does for an AD and for a team.
It's also been obvious in my journey to high gold when one team or the other has a support main against someone unfamiliar with the role. The difference in vision control and objective information forces passivity from one side and makes safe aggression natural for the team with the strong support. Can often be a result of a big difference in jungler quality too.
It's also been obvious in my journey to high gold when one team or the other has a support main against someone unfamiliar with the role. The difference in vision control and objective information forces passivity from one side and makes safe aggression natural for the team with the strong support. Can often be a result of a big difference in jungler quality too.
I think people commonly misunderstand that support owns bot lane.
Stone Ocean
Member
It's probably your play style. She's still very fucking strong with the IE rush.
I've been experimenting with the second item. IE LW works great, but Ghostblade might also be really good, though the only game I tried it out was completely batshit insane so I can't really point how good it was in the end.
Braum is bound for nerfs anyway.
I recommend rumble, for that unique flavour.8000IP right now. I'm getting close to catching em all. Or maybe I should buy flat HP yellows instead.
My crystal ball says she hasn't. While she made great use of BT through her ult, she gets a respectable amount of AS% with her W to make decent use of the IE.
The nerfs (as they are on PBE right now) will at most make him balanced, he will still be very good after the nerfs. Besides, the time before the nerfs can still be exploited.
Wolf Akela
Member
I'd always get LW as my third big item (not counting boots). I dislike getting caught without it when their tanks stack armor.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
You can get LW after ghostblade. It's another massive power spike you can abuse with ghostblades already sizeable armor penetration and active.
Yeah, I feel like if you wait any longer that you have a really poor mid game. Team fights don't go so well if you can't cut through some armor and smart teams will force that if the ADC isn't ready.
Stone Ocean
Member
Right after Ghostblade. In the Ghostblade build, you're trading a PD/Shiv for it.
LW must be either your second or third item in every single game, no questions asked. Unless you're absolutely stomping the enemy team, nothng should come before it as a third item , not even defensive stuff.
I'm going to try Ghostblade on MF tonight. IE to GB to LW and delay Phantom Dancer. Might be odd, but worth trying.
The removal of the stacks on BT nerfed it so hard.
BT costs more now, lacks 20 AD and also - you cannot realistically stack the shield that easily early game + in lane. IE on the other hand, does heaps of damage.
The way BT is currently designed (shield based on lifesteal%) means that if anything, it is now a v. late game item - since LS% becomes more relevant with more damage.
Stone Ocean
Member
Don't delay Phantom Dancer, ditch it altogether. Ghostblade is meant to be your attack speed item.
First, the overshield is shit early game. You're not going to sit at 100% HP often in lane, specially if you're looking to trade. Second BT is more expensive, so you'll have to sit with a BF and a Vamp scepter for longer while IE people will have a BF, a pickaxe and crit to slap you with. And lastly, the biggest reason people would favor BT was the AD, and now IE has the same AD as BT.
My old build was (not necessarily in this order): BT, IE, PD, LW, boots, defensive item.
So something for a new build could be: IE, GB, LW, Shiv, and a defensive item? Or is a late game BT good for the shield at that point?
I just haven't figured out my new builds yet. That's really the root of the issues I'm having with her feeling off.
Stone Ocean
Member
IE > GB > LW > BT/BoTRK > Defensive item
You don't need more than one attack speed item. BT is really good as a 5th item since you can charge the shield while pushing.
He can learn support when A.) he starts regularly playing with ADCs who understand how to take advantage of the opposing duo not having a support (182 CS at 40 mins doesn't inspire confidence) and/or B.) when he starts regularly playing against duo bots who understand the value of a support and how the lane is best played (102 CS Trist).
I'm 200 wins in and despite the ADC+support meta in solo queue being pretty locked down for nearly three years now, it's mind blowing how even now players don't know how to play the lane vs. unorthodox duos. Just last night I was Trist and paired with "first time" Morgana. We're against Blitz/Rengar and he could not have fucked up more. He won't be suddenly facing organized and experienced meta-adhering duo bots in the immediate future.
Now, the Shyvana pick is highly questionable, because what are you going to do, right? It's a bad idea. That doesn't mean he has to start learning Thresh, Braum, Nami, etc. At his level he can get similar results with many other champions he'd probably rather play. Should he maybe pick up a support in time? Of course, support is one of the best ways to go up the ladder because odds are the other support sucks.
But at level 28, for a role he clearly dislikes? No, I don't see any immediacy, not the point that we need quite a few to jump on the guy.
Stone Ocean said:
Hell, might be shit late game too in lots of scenarios. For instance, if I'm in siege/countersiege situation, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to build the shield to any considerable level if my teammates are also clearing waves and the waves are 30s apart.
Sounds good. Thanks, duder.
Stone Ocean
Member
That's your teammates fault. ADCs are supposed to be able to lifesteal off waves while sieging, that was the whole point of having a sustain heavy build in the first place.
Has anyone tried going essence reaver on ADC? I have tried it and been rubbish, so I am thinking it isn't that great. Just wondering if getting that first and spamming stuff would ever be preferable to IE/BotRK?
I don't think it would as BF gives you...40 something AD off the bat and reaver is 50 when built. You guys have a much better handle on these things than I do, just wondering why reaver second rate compared to what looks like the standard.
I like having damage, cool down and life steal but hopefully you guys can tell me why it seems like a bad idea.
I don't think it would as BF gives you...40 something AD off the bat and reaver is 50 when built. You guys have a much better handle on these things than I do, just wondering why reaver second rate compared to what looks like the standard.
I like having damage, cool down and life steal but hopefully you guys can tell me why it seems like a bad idea.
Stone Ocean
Member
Reaver is garbage unless you're Blue Ezreal.
I absolutely agree, but tell your teammates that and see if they actually listen. It's one of those cases when theory falls apart in practice.
Moodmon said:
My own understanding after looking into it is that it's best (and maybe only viable) on champions who also go Muramana/Manamune. The idea is that the %mana gain on AAs keeps your mana pool up to maximize the bonus damage from Manamune in extended fights. Seems like by the time you can build the item, most champions won't have severe mana issues anymore or in the case for several ADCs will have their damage from abilities superseded by straight AA damage.
I think with the rise of the AA oriented champions, double AS items will be good. PD/Shiv with Botrk is fine.
Stone Ocean
Member
It's completely unnecessary. Most auto-attack reliant ADCs have attack speed steroids and almost everyone uses attack speed runes. You don't need that much AS.
BoTRK doesn't count as an AS item
I don't think this is totally crazy, but I think there's a distinction between learning to support (as in, when do you engage, how do you protect the ADC effectively, who do you counter pick, etc.) and learning what support does (as in, take a support item and don't CS). I feel like that's basically the equivalent of calling jungle and laning all day, or calling ADC and building full tank. I don't think that's unreasonable to expect people to know even earlier than level 28.
Seeing as how I regularly play with 500+ win level 30 supports who use their spells to nab CS only, stay behind me all the time, fail to ward properly, have zero presence in lane, roam and feed mid randomly, etc. I'm not going expect a level 28 player with 91 wins, who for all we know doesn't frequent sites with information on how to play LoL or has few if any more experienced friends to play with, to somehow have more knowledge than the aforementioned "supports" I play often play with.
GAF-LoL isn't representative of the community as a whole. The average level of knowledge here is considerably higher than average. What seems evident to us often isn't to newer players.
i dunno about that
Stone Ocean
Member
The average LoL player is rly dum
Why wouldn't you count Botrk as an AS item????? It gives as much as Statik Shiv, just without the crit. Also, AA reliant ADCs are what they are AA reliant. Having a huge amount of AS with their rushed IE is what makes them monsters. They don't have to rely on spells to do their damage, just stand back and afk right click.
it's true, I dont' even know the timer for any of the buffs,dragon, baron.
Do you really want to sit there while your adc stacks shield during a tower siege during which time the enemy is getting free hits on the tower because the wave clear is being held back for the pwecious widdle adcarry?
Stone Ocean
Member
It doesn't count as an AS item in your build. Meaning you don't build BoTRK instead of PD/SS/GB. If you go IE BoTRK you're still getting a PD eventually.
I meant when you're attacking, not when you're getting sieged. You really want an ADC at 60% HP going anywhere near a tower?
Oh ok, I get what you are saying. Going IE into Botrk would be dumb though lol.
Your post specifically says during a siege
Stone Ocean
Member
I said "while sieging" and not "while getting sieged"
I over slept and had to rush to work. At least that last game was sweet redemption.
Point stands. Your going to lose time sieging if you let the ad just auto up a shield
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