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League of Legends |OT7| She Ezreal To Me, Dammit!
- Thread starter PhillipCostigan
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Me and some friends started ranked 3s last night. We're 2-0 and destined for greatness.
I told you. AP MUMU
Ya I made zero progress this weekend. I was up to 40lp in silver 1 and now i'm down to 0. I lost one at 0 last night so if I lose again I get to say hello to my ol pal Silver 2.
EDIT: LOL NEVERMIND. I just logged in and it said I've been demoted. WTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF
I told you. AP MUMU
Ya I made zero progress this weekend. I was up to 40lp in silver 1 and now i'm down to 0. I lost one at 0 last night so if I lose again I get to say hello to my ol pal Silver 2.
EDIT: LOL NEVERMIND. I just logged in and it said I've been demoted. WTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF
Oh I have
But then he just spins away
And heals it all up
Then fights me despite me having the advantage in gold but, you know, its Trynd. He wins.
PhillipCostigan
Member
it was 3v3.gg, but the new one is LoL3v3.net
it's ok. not great, but it's ok.
the tier lists are poorly done.
Schmattakopf
Member
PhillipCostigan
Member
I dunno why these people use the old jungle route.
The no smite Wraiths -> smite Wolves route is slower and you take more damage if you do a full clear, which is most likely what you're gonna do. I guess if you know 100% you're going to invade then Wraiths to Wolves is fine, but...
just a pet peeve of mine.
The no smite Wraiths -> smite Wolves route is slower and you take more damage if you do a full clear, which is most likely what you're gonna do. I guess if you know 100% you're going to invade then Wraiths to Wolves is fine, but...
just a pet peeve of mine.
He still failed because he said he was aiming for 30 deaths :^)
The fact that there is literally nothing you can do about this is the worst part. Riot can be a lot of good things, but when it comes to community/penalties is trash tier. I don't think there's worse than them. They're laughable.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
i call ur riot games and raise u a halo reach.
As a beginner jungler, is there a current guide to these routes? I would appreciate that!
Jungle openings are even simpler than they used to be. The only intelligent start is buff then wolves OR wraiths then 2nd buff, which can transition into anything else (more farming, gank top or mid or bot, invading the enemy jungle). You always do the same thing until you kill the 2nd buff, which will give you level 3, and then you're absolutely free in doing what you prefer.
Hm, as a Wukong, I usually do buff, then wolves, then teleport home, then wraith->wolves->teleport home -> wolves->wraith->try to gank-> if not, 2nd buff, or teleport home.
I am horribly inefficient then
Or I need to devise a way to survive that first route ending with 2nd buff with Wukong's starting 4 potions...
Edit: Oh, okay, just saw a video. Damn, what kind of difference does a full proper rune page make
PhillipCostigan
Member
I was talking about in 3v3
The optimal jungle route in 3v3 if you're not invading/doing a full clear is smite wraiths, do doubles, smite wolves.
A lot of 3v3 junglers still do the old route no matter what they're doing, which is grossly inefficient (wraiths, smite wolves, doubles).
The optimal jungle route in 3v3 if you're not invading/doing a full clear is smite wraiths, do doubles, smite wolves.
A lot of 3v3 junglers still do the old route no matter what they're doing, which is grossly inefficient (wraiths, smite wolves, doubles).
Tizoc
Member
Their Swain being AFK helped us get the win, but even then those 4 were tough as nails in team fights!
http://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/890326126/205390904
http://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/890326126/205390904
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
Swain was probably secretly coordinating the enemy team.
Hm, as a Wukong, I usually do buff, then wolves, then teleport home, then wraith->wolves->teleport home -> wolves->wraith->try to gank-> if not, 2nd buff, or teleport home.
I am horribly inefficient then
Or I need to devise a way to survive that first route ending with 2nd buff with Wukong's starting 4 potions...
Edit: Oh, okay, just saw a video. Damn, what kind of difference does a full proper rune page make
Oh I didn't realize you were not level 30. The only feedback I can give you then is that lee sin can do the opening I talked about earlier but he still has to base after the 2nd buff. Warwick and xin zhao are probably pretty similar, but yeah you can't really jungle without any runes.
Xin and WW can definitely do buff, wraiths/wolves, buff and end with enough HP to farm or gank, even with no runes at all. Start Machete and 4 pots and plan to use the pots up by your first back. But they're the best noob junglers mostly because they can do that. (Xin actually has a really lousy fight for his very first buff, so a good leash makes a big difference. Once he has Q it's much better.)
For somebody like Shyv or Hecarim, yeah, jungling with no runes and masteries is basically no fun at all.
I know general consensus is wait for tier 3 runes, but would you recommend Arnold getting some tier 1 armour runes if they are going jungle? Going back a while but I am sure I picked up a bare minimum to help.
Wukong can get a bit low in the jungle. Are you getting a leash for your buff - that is when mid and either top/bot help you kill the buff? You want to smite it, no point saving it as cool down so low.
Either that or pick a champ that loses less health. Elise is great if you have her, the spiders can be used to tank the damage from camps. At early stages Warwick will certainly sustain as well, even if he is a bit meh overall.
Wukong can get a bit low in the jungle. Are you getting a leash for your buff - that is when mid and either top/bot help you kill the buff? You want to smite it, no point saving it as cool down so low.
Either that or pick a champ that loses less health. Elise is great if you have her, the spiders can be used to tank the damage from camps. At early stages Warwick will certainly sustain as well, even if he is a bit meh overall.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
This was the most excruciating game ever. Jayce afked for a good 15 mins in the beginning and I ate the veigar so that we can take the two nexus towers. But we didn't apply enough pressure to the kog and the fiora was a lifesteal berserk. In the end they aced us at their base then we aced them at our base. Finally, our jinx made a wild dash to take down the nexus.
I think it's fine to buy tier 1 runes and then not buy any more runes until you can get tier 3.
thanks breh
Forgot another easy to sustain jungler. Fiddlesticks has a built in heal with drain. Plus you get to be that guy failing the ults and getting flamed.
Nightblu (a well known jungle streamer) has been doing an EUW unranked-challenger thing recently, he normally gives quite a few good tips when he isn't moaning about the rest of his team. http://www.twitch.tv/nightblue3
I also like Foxdrop but he hasn't done any recent absolute beginner videos recently. http://www.youtube.com/user/foxdropLoL
Nightblu (a well known jungle streamer) has been doing an EUW unranked-challenger thing recently, he normally gives quite a few good tips when he isn't moaning about the rest of his team. http://www.twitch.tv/nightblue3
I also like Foxdrop but he hasn't done any recent absolute beginner videos recently. http://www.youtube.com/user/foxdropLoL
Ghost is Bad
Banned
dude thornmail is the best item to get on master yi
like once they start focusing u they take damage and u have 100 armor so u wont take as much
like once they start focusing u they take damage and u have 100 armor so u wont take as much
Tizoc
Member
Well as Yi you'd be recovering with your huge ass lifesteal values and the extra little damage back at them is just full on adding insult to injury.
By the time you've won the game you wouldn't need armor.
Jungling is fun! I like it best because I have terrible mechanics. Unlike laning, you don't have to be good at last hitting and you hardly ever 1v1 against anybody, so nobody will notice if you're bad at auto-attack cancelling or whatever the fuck laners have to do to be successful.
Basically jungling is best understood as laner management. You roam around looking for opportunities to set your laner up for success by ganking, warding, collapsing on objectives or enemies that are out of position, pinging them to retreat which they never do, and generally giving them a chance to showcase their strong points.
At low elo, honestly, you can be a very effective jungler just by showing up and buying wards. I'm not that good at ganking, but if the enemy jungler doesn't leave their jungle until second buff, you can make an impact just by trying. Leave tower diving to the Golds and just focus on burning some enemy summoners and not losing your double buffs. Gank lanes that are winning or losing by just a little, where the enemy is extended, and your guys has enough hit points. Don't gank lanes that are losing badly! Screw those guys, they will get you killed.
Take your first back with at least 1k gold, start upgrading your jungle item, and buy a green and a pink. Then go out and get wards all over the field. Wards win games, but really effective wards need to go in places laners rarely go. You can go to those places. Pink bushes near or on the river, green near objectives or in jungle bushes near where the fighting's likely to happen (if you're winning, deep wards to get picks and steal buffs; if you're losing, ward your own jungle so that they don't get picks and steal your buffs). After support, you are the primary warder.
That's basically it. If you kill their bot lane, do dragon. If you win a teamfight, take an objective, then MAYBE do baron. And don't forget to get boots first after jungle item, because you walk a lot.
this thread is kinda interesting, at least just reading the red posts: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4686014
what i never get about riot and lee sin is why they can't just nerf his damage a little bit. yea it's not making him have any more counterplay or be a more interesting champion or anything but it's just a simple quality of life for the whole game improvement that wouldn't break him whatsoever and would make everyone else marginally happier
it's low risk low reward but why the fuck not, just make your players happy while you work on the complicated nerfs
it's just putting fires everywhere while getting blamed for everything and farming as a jungler is so boring
i mean my friends that like to play jungler is because they don't want to be shit on in lane which makes sense as we've gotten to the point where i guess it shows but still
what i never get about riot and lee sin is why they can't just nerf his damage a little bit. yea it's not making him have any more counterplay or be a more interesting champion or anything but it's just a simple quality of life for the whole game improvement that wouldn't break him whatsoever and would make everyone else marginally happier
it's low risk low reward but why the fuck not, just make your players happy while you work on the complicated nerfs
i still don't know how you people can enjoy jungling
it's just putting fires everywhere while getting blamed for everything and farming as a jungler is so boring
i mean my friends that like to play jungler is because they don't want to be shit on in lane which makes sense as we've gotten to the point where i guess it shows but still
PhillipCostigan
Member
Lucian is a perfect example of why properly dealing with Lee Sin is so hard and why it takes time to do these things.
Lucian had high burst damage, sustained damage, mobility, decent range, and absurd passive, safety etc. etc. He had little to no weaknesses and a lot of strengths, so they had to make a weakness for him.
unfortunately, so far anyway, they chose the wrong weakness to give him by gutting his range. It makes the champion practically useless and it will never be played.
Imagine if they did that to Lee Sin. Created a weakness and got it completely wrong. There would be murder, and rightly so. I am really scared that Lucian is going to actually be nerfed to 500 range. It will kill the champion.
That's why changing Lee is so hard and why it will take them time to get it right. I would rather a champion be strong until they can figure out a way to accentuate its strengths and give it weaknesses.
If they just nerf the champions in the mean time, it basically turns them into old Olaf, Urgot, Diana, Hecarim, Yorick, old Heimer, old Skarner, old Maokai etc. and just reduces the amount of viable champions. If they nerf Lee the jungle pool will be reduced to two top tier junglers that will be pick or ban every game and everyone will complain about the same thing.
the entire jungler pool needs a retune, like they did coming into this season (and then fucked up by continuously reducing the pool of viable junglers). It will probably be a seasonal change.
Stone Ocean
Member
Out of Lucian's strengths, his auto range matters the least.
Lucian had 3 main things that combined made him who he is, damage, mobility and his effective range. Riot had to pick 1 to be his weakness. Removing his damage or mobility would make 100% sure that he would never be played ever again unless he got buffed/reworked a year from now - without his damage, just pick Ezreal. Without his mobility, just pick MF or Sivir. Changing him around a lower range is the only way he can partially keep his strengths instead of just being removed from the game.
PhillipCostigan
Member
except he is now going to be removed from bot lane. because they got it wrong. nerfing to 500 range was the wrong weakness to give him.
wrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrongwrong
and he had more than three strengths.
Stone Ocean
Member
I said main strengths
What would you suggest was done to Lucian then? Because touching his damage or mobility would kill him no doubt. This of course is trying to make sure the champion doesn't feel like shit, we could always put a cooldown on his passive and call it a day, but again, straight into the shitter he would goes while making him less fun to actually use.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I would have to sit and have a think about it. Come back to me on it.
But I can tell you for sure the 500 range nerf is a disgustingly heavy handed way to give him a weakness.
it's times like these where I wish I had Riot's tools and could mess about with champions all day long
Fine, he gets the 500 range nerf, but he always gets Braum to be his support, regardless of bans. Everybody is happy now.
Dreams-Visions
Member
It's disappointing to me that after several months of observation, this was the best idea they could come up with.
two different topics entirely
first the more i think about it the lucy nerfs are actually cool and reinforcing the strengths of his character. yea it could've been 525 but that would've probably need watering down his entire kit. he got to keep his passive, he has no cost low cd mobility, crazy burst, etc. he's gonna have worse laning and teamfighting and if you miss culling you're gonna be in trouble but hey that's a weakness for you. tbh short range lucy makes me excited as i think it's cool for adcs to have a wider array of ranges and make the role more diverse
and cmon now, it's not hard to slightly nerf lee sin, just take some damage out, it's not that bad. 40 instead of 50 on q, make his ult deal a bit less damage (which is already absurd), that won't olaf him and people won't stop picking him.
PhillipCostigan
Member
are you referring to the Lucian change? Because if so, I agree.
Or are you referring to their philosophy on how they want to handle Lee Sin? Because if so, I disagree. This is the best way to handle Lee Sin.
They're not different :/ they're exactly the same type of situation. Adding weakness to a character that's strong in every area.
I'd take your opinion on board more if you played more ADC and if I thought you played Lucian whatsoever. I played a hell of a lot of Lucian. I know the champion inside out. I was signing his praises when everyone was sure he was shit tier.
This change will kill him. On paper, him having more mobility is cool. But that doesn't work in the reality of the game. And diversity is irrelevant when they aren't played.
This is the problem. That will not solve anything. That will make the champion weak, not healthy or balanced. That is not the way to go about making these changes, which is the entire point of the thread you linked :/
Dreams-Visions
Member
I think the Lucian changes are interesting in the sense that I think it's a cool design space for a champion to be in. He'll keep his 1000 range poke, but his effective kill range is going to be much tighter -- so you can't hover in the mid range, you have to commit one way or the other. It feels appropriate to his flavor concept and at least hypothetically offers an interesting choice and counterplay.
That said, it might be an unpopular niche that means Lucian doesn't see any play (right now; someday they'll release a dumb item that cares about ADCs being in melee or something and he'll be meta again), and he may be totally poorly tuned so that they don't make him super OP again in a different way. So it sucks pretty bad if you liked Lucian as a champion, because he's probably going to be basically bad at the thing he used to be pretty good at.
I really don't know who the main "basically okay at everything" ADC will be when Lucian is gone. Jinx and MF don't have dashes. Graves?
That said, it might be an unpopular niche that means Lucian doesn't see any play (right now; someday they'll release a dumb item that cares about ADCs being in melee or something and he'll be meta again), and he may be totally poorly tuned so that they don't make him super OP again in a different way. So it sucks pretty bad if you liked Lucian as a champion, because he's probably going to be basically bad at the thing he used to be pretty good at.
I really don't know who the main "basically okay at everything" ADC will be when Lucian is gone. Jinx and MF don't have dashes. Graves?
They'll all have some trade offs and weakness. Hey, how about that?!
Caitlyn is the most well rounded after the Lucian nerf, I'd think.
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