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League of Legends |OT9| Stealing Abilities From Inferior MOBAs since 2009
- Thread starter PhillipCostigan
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Stone Ocean
Member
Got gifted DJ Sona, guess I'm a support now
E CD is too important not to max it after Q. Plus bigger slow, more damage than W midgame yadda yadda.
QEW
E CD is too important not to max it after Q. Plus bigger slow, more damage than W midgame yadda yadda.
Wolf Akela
Member
Edit:doh read Varus as Vayne. Wondered why people suggested maxing W last wtf
Stone Ocean
Member
Who's talking about Vayne lol
Wolf Akela
Member
I just woke up. I need coffee. 
Wolf Akela
Member
Is it just me or are the Nautilus changes better for top lane? It really reminds me when Riot tried buffing jungle Maokai by reducing mana costs. 4 second E with no CDR is too nuts.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
You wanna lose more than 3 LP?
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
When are they gonna fix the double nami skin?
Ghost is Bad
Banned
rek girl
It went about as you would expect
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
If you have literally any doubt about a ranked game, just dodge. It's not worth the frustration.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Tried repairing my client but I'm still getting stuck at the server connection part. This is annoying - the game won't let me connect to the matches, and is punishing me for "leaving" multiple games.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
Oor u could troll and try to make someone else dodge
MrCookiepants
Member
Meh, Correct me if I'm wrong, but the thing that makes Lissandra OP is her CC and engage potential. What does nerfing her already lowish damage do?
This may sound stupid, but why don't they just take away her ability to ult herself? It doesn't even make sense that she's invincible in that thing while her enemies aren't.
But if I'm honest, I'm just tired of accidentally ulting myself all the time.
I know Riot is against removing things that make champions unique though.that would be a terrible idea for the reason you say on your last sentence, why would you take away the most unique part of lizzy? the decision to ult yourself or ult someone else along with her ability set up picks or punish enemy assaults or just engage herself are the core of what makes lizzy a cool character. being able to go from this to this is what allows you to display skill with her and make plays and all the fun stuff about lizzyMeh, Correct me if I'm wrong, but the thing that makes Lissandra OP is her CC and engage potential. What does nerfing her already lowish damage do?
This may sound stupid, but why don't they just take away her ability to ult herself? It doesn't even make sense that she's invincible in that thing while her enemies aren't.
But if I'm honest, I'm just tired of accidentally ulting myself all the time.
that's the thing you should keep about her, it's the most and if she becomes overpowered see removing power in other places so she can keep being awesome at her thing.
between the damage nerf and the claw nerf, she'll still be super strong but you know, lower her power a little.
Meh, Correct me if I'm wrong, but the thing that makes Lissandra OP is her CC and engage potential. What does nerfing her already lowish damage do?
This may sound stupid, but why don't they just take away her ability to ult herself? It doesn't even make sense that she's invincible in that thing while her enemies aren't.
But if I'm honest, I'm just tired of accidentally ulting myself all the time.
Well it makes it slightly less miserable for melee tops. Like Darius will still get kited but he can soak a little exp before having to back.
I was considering a name change to that last month. Didn't go through with it though.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
that decision doesn't exist when she gets zhonyas.
that's true but in part that's just the game. as a match progresses, ult cooldowns get shorter and shorter, jungler doesn't need smite to do camps, adc can just heal to full health by doing wraith camp, mids have infinite mana with items and blue buff, and lizzy buys zhonyas which lets her just ult someone and then zhonyas herself.
you build glass cannon thanks to that so it's a special interaction that imo is fairly acceptable as it enables lizzy to get on the backline and do her thing.
say, zhonyas didn't exist or ulting yourself didn't exist, you're not making her gameplay any better. tweaks to the spell to promote ulting yourself more could work but i haven't heard any good ideas
downright removing the ability to ult yourself is super bad tho
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Why(LA)
rito's post on the jungle: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zxMqjuBX-lets-talk-about-the-jungle
some takeaways:
* refocusing on champion diversity and general class satisfaction, strategic diversity will have to come later. which means they want to support more champions and make the jungle more fun and rewarding, but don't expect to be able to counterjungle shyvanna your way to victory just yet
* jungle monsters are gonna hit a bit less now
* new poacher item will be more about opportunistic counterjungling and less about dedicated counterjungling. it'll be more useful for when you're other things then, and it will have some vision mechanic
* mage jungle item and devourer changes at some point but they power spike too hard so they wanna see about that
* they're looking into the "pot tax" thing as they call it of junglers spending too much money on potions or whatever
some takeaways:
* refocusing on champion diversity and general class satisfaction, strategic diversity will have to come later. which means they want to support more champions and make the jungle more fun and rewarding, but don't expect to be able to counterjungle shyvanna your way to victory just yet
* jungle monsters are gonna hit a bit less now
* new poacher item will be more about opportunistic counterjungling and less about dedicated counterjungling. it'll be more useful for when you're other things then, and it will have some vision mechanic
* mage jungle item and devourer changes at some point but they power spike too hard so they wanna see about that
* they're looking into the "pot tax" thing as they call it of junglers spending too much money on potions or whatever
SteveWinwood
Member
I don't mean to be a dick and please forgive me if I come off as one (great way to start this I know) but I just don't understand how having a very specific goal and balancing around it can do anything but end in failure.
They specifically mention a rock paper scissors attempt at strategy. You have people trying to break your shit left and right for actual money, that's not going to work and you know it.
These games are their own beasts I don't think you can do anything but a very small gentle slide or poke to put it in the right direction as its going full steam ahead and trying to control it will end in disaster.
I'm all for crazy and huge changes (one of the biggest reasons I think blizzard balancing in starcraft sucked shit) but not with a very clear and one dimensional attempt at them. There are just way too many things in mobas that lean on each other and who knows what will fall over.
They specifically mention a rock paper scissors attempt at strategy. You have people trying to break your shit left and right for actual money, that's not going to work and you know it.
These games are their own beasts I don't think you can do anything but a very small gentle slide or poke to put it in the right direction as its going full steam ahead and trying to control it will end in disaster.
I'm all for crazy and huge changes (one of the biggest reasons I think blizzard balancing in starcraft sucked shit) but not with a very clear and one dimensional attempt at them. There are just way too many things in mobas that lean on each other and who knows what will fall over.
So I mucked about doing jungle clears with Nautilus and when assigning points to skills you must now first max...I have no fucking clue.
You start E now, then go W. Feels about the same for his first few levels and whether you sink in 2 points in E or W first doesn't matter, he can still clear to level 4 with relative ease. Maxing W or E as far as jungling goes are both fine. E was slightly faster (I can get to 6 about 12 seconds faster) but uses up lots of mana to the point I question if it won't be an issue when a ganking opportunity comes up and it's not quite as good on health. Because E comes up more often and so makes up lots of the lost damage, clearing with W isn't any slower than before and is much less mana intensive than maxing E and a bit better on health.
Maxing E improves ganks but I'm not convinced it would be a net gain to dueling. Maxing E increases the odds of getting caught with not enough mana to spam the very ability you're depending on to duel. Gut feeling is that you still max W, or maybe do something like E-W-W-Q then R>E>W>Q because you're still Naut, and you still don't want to pick fights unless everything is stacked in your favour.
I think more than anything it'll make sure that Bite is up when you need it up. There were times as jungle Volibear I'd take the wraith camp and actually have to sit in the river side bush a few seconds longer that I would have liked to just to make sure that it's up in time for the gank.
Nope. Nautilus is still a tank. If an item doesn't provide at least some defensive stats* then skip it. Mister Negative suggested IBG which is now useful on Naut. The excellent base damages he now has thanks to low CD E spam and the new jungle enchant means he can make better use of Abyssal Scepter and Liandry's Torment (although Liandry's would still be just ok, but now haunting guise is a genuinely attractive buy). Wit's End should still be his best offensive minded buy. Even though the AP ratio on E is reduced, AP is still better than before over time because of how often E will come out, so picking up an RoA is ok now too if you can get it early enough.
(And let's not forget to some unsung defensive AP items like Banner of Command are actually cost effective if you can use all the stats like Nautilus can.)
I'm totes fine dude. Totes fiiinnnnnnneeeeeeeeeee.
The extra health on W is just numbers clean-up Riot has been doing recently to various champs where weird numbers are being rounded up in cases where it wouldn't do any harm balance wise. Usually the rounding is on base stats, but there's another example of numbers clean-up on abilities in the PBE patch as well (Skarner's Q damage).
Damage increase on E for Xin is just a nice little boost. I had a gut feeling he'd be getting a small buff recently since he felt like he just needed a little something since the start of S5.
Also, loving the concept of the new jungle enchant. Very similar to an idea I had a few months back kicking around in my head for an AP bruiser item (small amount of health + stacking AP when damaged).
You start E now, then go W. Feels about the same for his first few levels and whether you sink in 2 points in E or W first doesn't matter, he can still clear to level 4 with relative ease. Maxing W or E as far as jungling goes are both fine. E was slightly faster (I can get to 6 about 12 seconds faster) but uses up lots of mana to the point I question if it won't be an issue when a ganking opportunity comes up and it's not quite as good on health. Because E comes up more often and so makes up lots of the lost damage, clearing with W isn't any slower than before and is much less mana intensive than maxing E and a bit better on health.
Maxing E improves ganks but I'm not convinced it would be a net gain to dueling. Maxing E increases the odds of getting caught with not enough mana to spam the very ability you're depending on to duel. Gut feeling is that you still max W, or maybe do something like E-W-W-Q then R>E>W>Q because you're still Naut, and you still don't want to pick fights unless everything is stacked in your favour.
I think more than anything it'll make sure that Bite is up when you need it up. There were times as jungle Volibear I'd take the wraith camp and actually have to sit in the river side bush a few seconds longer that I would have liked to just to make sure that it's up in time for the gank.
Nope. Nautilus is still a tank. If an item doesn't provide at least some defensive stats* then skip it. Mister Negative suggested IBG which is now useful on Naut. The excellent base damages he now has thanks to low CD E spam and the new jungle enchant means he can make better use of Abyssal Scepter and Liandry's Torment (although Liandry's would still be just ok, but now haunting guise is a genuinely attractive buy). Wit's End should still be his best offensive minded buy. Even though the AP ratio on E is reduced, AP is still better than before over time because of how often E will come out, so picking up an RoA is ok now too if you can get it early enough.
(And let's not forget to some unsung defensive AP items like Banner of Command are actually cost effective if you can use all the stats like Nautilus can.)
I'm totes fine dude. Totes fiiinnnnnnneeeeeeeeeee.
The extra health on W is just numbers clean-up Riot has been doing recently to various champs where weird numbers are being rounded up in cases where it wouldn't do any harm balance wise. Usually the rounding is on base stats, but there's another example of numbers clean-up on abilities in the PBE patch as well (Skarner's Q damage).
Damage increase on E for Xin is just a nice little boost. I had a gut feeling he'd be getting a small buff recently since he felt like he just needed a little something since the start of S5.
Also, loving the concept of the new jungle enchant. Very similar to an idea I had a few months back kicking around in my head for an AP bruiser item (small amount of health + stacking AP when damaged).
MrCookiepants
Member
That tower dive situation was played very well, but you probably could have accomplished the same thing with zhonyas and then using your ult on Ahri or something.
I dunno. I'm just saying the double zhonyas thing is probably what's pushing her over the line atm. And I just find the mechanic to be clunky (ulting yourself unintentionally - even pros do it) and thematically stupid (why is it a life saver for Lissandra but a death sentence for an enemy to be in the tomb?).
But I'm new to the game so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
Somebody has to have the double zhonyas. Just think about that.
Besides, of course she super has afficinity with black ice that's why she uses it on herself sometimes because it's too hot on summers rift
Misclicks are not clunky, people r just bad sometimes
Ps Steve stop being such a dick
Besides, of course she super has afficinity with black ice that's why she uses it on herself sometimes because it's too hot on summers rift
Misclicks are not clunky, people r just bad sometimes
Ps Steve stop being such a dick
SteveWinwood
Member
explain it to me like im 6
because i am
because i am
i dunno, league has some core gameplay issues that riot has been trying to correct for years that can't be just left as they are and up to the players to figure out. i think the hands-on style of patch every three weeks can often feel frustrating or pointless but in some aspects it's just necessary because of how messed up some things are in the game. like i imagine riot would love to just start over with 40 champions again and make everything awesome with replays and all counterplay abilities and no crit and cool items and shit, but since that's an impossibility they have to gradually fix things one by one, with those fancy goals in mind
and like it's not like it doesn't work. the dragon and baron changes this season have been pretty successful and the support changes last season were bumpy but in the end the game is much better now, and those things were pretty big. and like you can't just leave the jungle like it was in s4 or whatever, people hated that jungle and were whining every day about it too.
i think you may be taking the whole rock papers scissors too literally when they're just trying to talk about different strategies that are similarly successful, not necessarily counterjungling beats ganking, ganking beats powerfarming or whatever.
also your post would be a bit easier to understand with a bit more specifics
also i don't think i have ever seen pros ult themselves by accidents (tho i might be misremembering), and i can't remember it ever happening to me (and lizzy is one of my most played champions). like, that's not a real issue for ppl that play her. it might happen to you which is fine because you're not too experienced with her iirc but as you play her more it'll never happen again. it's 100% not an issue tho, you're just being crazy, and clunky is so not the right word for this situation.
as for the thematic thing, i mean, who cares, if it doesn't make you invulnerable then you just stunned yourself in front of the whole enemy team so it would make no sense as a spell.
and like it's not like it doesn't work. the dragon and baron changes this season have been pretty successful and the support changes last season were bumpy but in the end the game is much better now, and those things were pretty big. and like you can't just leave the jungle like it was in s4 or whatever, people hated that jungle and were whining every day about it too.
i think you may be taking the whole rock papers scissors too literally when they're just trying to talk about different strategies that are similarly successful, not necessarily counterjungling beats ganking, ganking beats powerfarming or whatever.
also your post would be a bit easier to understand with a bit more specifics
well i had no zhonyas. there's actually a similar situation in the same spot later in that game in which i just zhonyas and then ult myself for the 5s invulnerability. double zhonyas is rare for engages, but really useful when people misjudge your survivability and overextend for it. it's a much more rare use of her ult but it happens, in regular and pro play.
also i don't think i have ever seen pros ult themselves by accidents (tho i might be misremembering), and i can't remember it ever happening to me (and lizzy is one of my most played champions). like, that's not a real issue for ppl that play her. it might happen to you which is fine because you're not too experienced with her iirc but as you play her more it'll never happen again. it's 100% not an issue tho, you're just being crazy, and clunky is so not the right word for this situation.
as for the thematic thing, i mean, who cares, if it doesn't make you invulnerable then you just stunned yourself in front of the whole enemy team so it would make no sense as a spell.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
they're always behind a patch or two.
Mister Negative
Member
I believe patches are on a 2 or 3 week delay for LCS.
Edit: Zky you bring up some good points in that I feel like a lot of people (i.e. reddit dot com) are essentially acting like Riot is incompetent but like you said, the dragon and baron changes are wonderful and the support changes for season 4 were incredibly successful. It just sucks that the jungle has a lot more factors that have to be taken into account, but I'd love it if riot could nail it with the jungle and do for that role what they did for support.
I feel like most of the problem for junglers that aren't bruisers is that their level 1-4 clear just sucks, and it might be true that the root of the problem is that if you can't make use of machete as well as others, you're SOL.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
yeah something like that. not sure why though.
Probably to avoid the worst of game-breaking bugs in case any are discovered.
Also, I'm seeing the new playstyle cards in the League client now. Is there some page that has a reference of all the symbols? I'm not sure what some of them mean, and you can't hover over the card to check tooltips or anything.
Mister Negative
Member
yeah, probably just to make entirely sure the patch is "stable" and let it get playtested by millions of people for a few weeks.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
lol all of a sudden viktor is seeing competitive play im done.
Answering my own question: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.co...is-new-playstyle-in-friends-list-and-own-icon
The left icon is leaves for jungler, or a lane symbol for top/mid/bot. The right icon is similar to the teambuilder icons, indicating what role was played. I'm not sure if "assassin" has an icon like teambuilder or not.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
oh so that's what it was?
i thought it was something for me getting reported for playing troll supports in tb.
i thought it was something for me getting reported for playing troll supports in tb.
I dunno I think things just change n yea thats whatever
maybe they have goals and theyre nice enough to try to tell us what theyre trying to achieve but it doesnt really matter
im just a player, afterall.
u can compare it to icefrog style where you just do whatever the hell you please without discussion n maybe thats better for reddit style people who like to hold people 100% accountable for everything they say and why didnt you meet your aims!!! you said youd do this but you didnt!!! maybe its better if ppl say nothing
maybe they have goals and theyre nice enough to try to tell us what theyre trying to achieve but it doesnt really matter
im just a player, afterall.
u can compare it to icefrog style where you just do whatever the hell you please without discussion n maybe thats better for reddit style people who like to hold people 100% accountable for everything they say and why didnt you meet your aims!!! you said youd do this but you didnt!!! maybe its better if ppl say nothing
Ghost is Bad
Banned
no reddit style is complaining about things that didn't actually change all that much.
SteveWinwood
Member
reddit style is complaining about everything and understanding nothing
It's nice that Riot people try to explain their balance reasons, but sometimes I feel like it doesn't make a lot of sense and maybe it would be better if they said less on that particular change. It leads to kind of funny things like "This will separate the good [whatever] from the great [whatever]" when what you really kind of feel is, "But that's just an all-around negative change!"
*edit* Both ranked games tonight have had Sejuani. I suspect people are already jumping on the train in preparation of her being very strong (and potentially permabanned in bronze/silver) next patch.
*edit* Both ranked games tonight have had Sejuani. I suspect people are already jumping on the train in preparation of her being very strong (and potentially permabanned in bronze/silver) next patch.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
well there goes another piece of my jungler champion pool.
i think rito said the reasoning behind the lcs being a couple weeks behind in patches and the new champions being disabled thing is so that pros get time to get used to these things and don't have to rush the day of release to like test them like crazy and see if anything's op or broken
i'm not super knowledgeable at this, but i guess the jungle is super hard to balance because you need to find a way for champions to be arguably more impact than all the other classes while having access to less gold and levels (because if u don't you get the maokai top thing).
like i really like nunu and eve (and to some degree reksai) as junglers because i feel they're champions that have kits that are really about exercising control around the map and that doesn't translate so good as laners. they have traits like being invisible or being able to "double smite" or being able to do super fast pushes which is very differentiating from what you'd expect mostly from a solo laner (which is dmg/tankiness/cc). i don't think having like sejuani or lee sin or whatever is bad, but like if junglers were made/reworked with those traits in mind instead of being bruisers-that-are-good-at-ganking-and-somewhat-scale-well-enough-without-so-many-items the jungle would be in a much better state imo, tho it's kinda late for that. i can see riot tried some of that with reksai but in the end she's kind of just a different version of the same jarvan/lee thing
the jungle's complicated man
i think the current jungle outrage thing is completely insane even tho the issue is super real and super serious and rito fucked up pretty hard with the jungle
i'm not super knowledgeable at this, but i guess the jungle is super hard to balance because you need to find a way for champions to be arguably more impact than all the other classes while having access to less gold and levels (because if u don't you get the maokai top thing).
like i really like nunu and eve (and to some degree reksai) as junglers because i feel they're champions that have kits that are really about exercising control around the map and that doesn't translate so good as laners. they have traits like being invisible or being able to "double smite" or being able to do super fast pushes which is very differentiating from what you'd expect mostly from a solo laner (which is dmg/tankiness/cc). i don't think having like sejuani or lee sin or whatever is bad, but like if junglers were made/reworked with those traits in mind instead of being bruisers-that-are-good-at-ganking-and-somewhat-scale-well-enough-without-so-many-items the jungle would be in a much better state imo, tho it's kinda late for that. i can see riot tried some of that with reksai but in the end she's kind of just a different version of the same jarvan/lee thing
the jungle's complicated man
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