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League of Legends |OT9| Stealing Abilities From Inferior MOBAs since 2009
- Thread starter PhillipCostigan
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No, Annie is a definite counter. Just checked out of curiosity, and yeah, Annie wins that match up most often.
http://champion.gg/matchup/Annie/Lissandra/Middle
57%? That's pretty definitive. This is for Platinum and higher matches only.
wouldn't say lizzy counters annie but it's an easy lane for her and after lane they shouldn't interact too much since both will just ult the backline and not bother with each other haha
annie's great against ahri cos annie q range is pretty decent at countering spirit rush, not to mention tibbers. she's prolly pretty decent against zed too since tibbers is quickers than shadow swap tho zed can def dodge it with ult (zed ult so annoying...). laning shouldn't be too terrible but might be a bit of trouble since zed laning is pretty broken
against lebonk it's weird, annie can just tibbers her when lebonk w's in but i imagine annie having a really rough time in lane.
so yeah annie's weird, i'd say she's pretty strong because point and click stuns and tibbers are really good and she's easy to play but her laning is always gonna be rough against people that outrange her, which is basically everyone
that's reading the stats wrong
annie also has strong winrate against xerath for instance: http://champion.gg/matchup/Annie/Xerath/Middle
that's just champions like xerath or lissandra having a lot lower winrate overall
Stone Ocean
Member
That's not really definitive though, you can't really pin lane match ups in a team game with multiple phases on an assortment of statistics.
Like look at this http://champion.gg/matchup/Graves/Jinx/ADC, Jinx has the advantage against Graves because she is a hyper carry and solo Q games will often not end fast enough but as far as the meta goes Graves fucks her up in lane, always has. This isn't a fighting game that you can just analyze win rates and define match ups based on such.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
by that logic blitzcrank is the obvious counter to sivir right
Well, no, by that same logic Sivir has the advantage.
http://champion.gg/matchup/Sivir/Blitzcrank/adcsupport
Out of all ADCs, Blitzcrank has the lowest tracked win rate vs. Sivir, just as we'd expect: http://champion.gg/matchup/Sivir/Blitzcrank/adcsupport
Graves is listed as a counter to Jinx on the site despite Jinx having a higher head-to-head win percentage, because it recognizes that her overall win rate drops noticeably below her average when playing against Graves.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
shut up zky.
Stone Ocean
Member
So are Sivir and Ashe, but neither are true.
Also the Blitz thing analyzes gold and kill differences between ADCs and supports (????) but still says there is a 0.65% difference in win rate between Sivir and Blitz which as far as laning goes is not the case.
This site has some cool statistics but they are anything but conclusive as far as match ups go lol. You can't put a number on lane match ups in this game because it leads to weird info like this.
Tizoc
Member
My main issue with the Purple ward, is even if I were to put it in a convenient place, the enemy team will eventually see it and they earn free 30 Gold :V
In regards to winning games, it must be. In a 1v1 (or 2v2) lane scenario, maybe not. But if you just want to win the game, maybe Ashe is a good pick against Jinx due to how team fights break down later.
You can view those extra stats for what you want, but win percentage will ultimately be the most important metric and they have that dialed in.
Edit: Patch 5.5 increased Katarina's win rate. http://champion.gg/champion/katarina
That nerf probably won't get her back to normal, but it's a start.
Stone Ocean
Member
We are talking lane match ups here, are we not?
use your head, jeff, why would lizzy get countered by annie? in which way do they interact that it benefits annie?
also winrate is a really bad statistic to derive counters cos the game is determined by way more than laning. lebonk and zed both have mediocre winrates despite being lanestompers, as did syndra when she wasn't balanced around noot.
those sites are really useless for this kind of thing because they don't have the information that matters because all they read is end-of-game stats.
you can even see that the counters to annie in her page are malzahar, katarina, heimer, swain, kennen, talon, etc. all champions that have nothing in common with each other outside of having really high winrates
and who does annie counter? veigar, akali, kassadin, azir, yasuo, ryze...
it's useless
lol
also winrate is a really bad statistic to derive counters cos the game is determined by way more than laning. lebonk and zed both have mediocre winrates despite being lanestompers, as did syndra when she wasn't balanced around noot.
those sites are really useless for this kind of thing because they don't have the information that matters because all they read is end-of-game stats.
you can even see that the counters to annie in her page are malzahar, katarina, heimer, swain, kennen, talon, etc. all champions that have nothing in common with each other outside of having really high winrates
and who does annie counter? veigar, akali, kassadin, azir, yasuo, ryze...
it's useless
lol
that's not how the game works dude
i think the nerf will hit her pretty hard, probably go down all the way to 51% or whatever
Uh, kind of. I mean I killed a Lissandra big time with Annie earlier this week. Laning wasn't tough at all, but late game it was super noticeable who had a bigger impact on fights. Annie won the late game so heavily. Maybe it had to with the fact that I crushed her in lane and she never got going, but she was limp in the late game.
Bard's highest win percentage vs. another support is against Braum: http://champion.gg/champion/bard
It's a sizzling 34.77%
Stone Ocean
Member
You mean the 50.65% win rate I just commented on? You do realize that Blitz is a joke against Sivir as far as laning goes and that would never mean a basically even win rate if it were properly measurable, right?
There is literally nothing special that Annie can do against Lissandra as a short ranged mage. There is plenty Lissandra can do as a lockdown mage against a short ranged, no escape, no CC between passive downtimes mage in a meta filled with heavy damage junglers. Annie might win more games overall since as far as teamfights go Lissandra and Annie have similar jobs but Annie does it better but lane-wise there is nothing that supports that win rate. Liss might not be a counter but this lane match up is not in her disadvantage.
they'll get 300g when your teammate works through a ward and gets picked off
or they'll get a dragon steal cos you didn't break their wards
or whatever
always buy pinks, as support or otherwise
that's anecdotical
i lost a ranked 5s game against an annie mid with lizzy the other day and she ended up 4 12 10 and i was 8 6 9 with a 100cs difference and we lost because our bot lane kept overextending and gave up the lead we had from mid, jungle and bot crushing their respective lanes.
i can tell you i beat her in lane really hard and i picked lizzy onto annie because i believe lizzy to be much better in teamfights (which is kind of the opposite of what you're saying) because of her cc and spammable aoe damage, better build paths, etc.
doesn't mean lizzy is a counter to annie or that annie is a counter to lizzy, they're champions that are picked for different
don't trust those sites, just play what you find strong and use your head
One lucky hook in the late game, man. Blitz can change things at any point, rendering a rough laning phase almost entirely moot. There's a lot of factors that go into winning, sure. Yes, you might win your lane in bot as Sivir, but as soon as that breaks down you can't spellshield your teammates in fights.
I think there's a lot of value in looking at win percentages and compared percentages. It's not the tell all story, but neither is looking at 1v1 match up considerations. Point is, even with a Sivir on your team, you still only beat Blitz's team 49% of the time.
Stone Ocean
Member
Stop bringing up teamfights when we are talking about lane counters lol
Stone Ocean
Member
You want to talk matchups Vs win rates then you have to ask yourself, ok Annie has a 57% statistical advantage, why is that?
Does Annie bully Liss out of lane? No, she doesn't
Does Annie make Liss easier to gank? Without flash not really, no
Does Annie make Liss's job in team fights any harder? Can Annie stop Lissandra from flash ulting your ADC by whatever means? No and neither can Liss stop her from doing the same
So why does Annie win? Easier to play, harder to fuck up with, AoE stuns, I don't fucking know, it happens but it's not because she beats Lissandra. It's the same with Sivir vs Blitz, Sivir can just negate Blitz's presence in lane but she can't do that when it's 5v5. Cait makes Graves' life a living hell in lane but Graves still wins more games. That's just how the game works and you can't define a match up by win rates.
This fucking site says Eve has a 54% advantage against Jarvan for fuck's sake.
Does Annie bully Liss out of lane? No, she doesn't
Does Annie make Liss easier to gank? Without flash not really, no
Does Annie make Liss's job in team fights any harder? Can Annie stop Lissandra from flash ulting your ADC by whatever means? No and neither can Liss stop her from doing the same
So why does Annie win? Easier to play, harder to fuck up with, AoE stuns, I don't fucking know, it happens but it's not because she beats Lissandra. It's the same with Sivir vs Blitz, Sivir can just negate Blitz's presence in lane but she can't do that when it's 5v5. Cait makes Graves' life a living hell in lane but Graves still wins more games. That's just how the game works and you can't define a match up by win rates.
This fucking site says Eve has a 54% advantage against Jarvan for fuck's sake.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Movement speed nerf on Elise's human form is yet another slap to her top laning.
Going for attack speed on Cho is only really worthwhile when he's jungling or against very specific top lane match-ups. Wit's End is alright-ish on him for example, but only situationally so and by no means is it an early purchase. Plenty of higher priority statistics to pick up instead regardless of his role.
Stone Ocean
Member
Owie. Better hit that fucking ult
The missile speed on Cocoon should be good though.
yeah, in hindsight sounds weird that it was 90% even if u missed it
dunno if w and e nerfs are also needed but probably
elise as a cocoon bot is so boring tho
Orochinagis
Member
I think is forcing the Elise players to always spider form and her human form just for CC or random scout spiders
Stone Ocean
Member
It's not like she's that interesting regardless of that
I really wish Riot would just rework Elise into what she was supposed to be if they didn't rush her damn kit with whatever crap they had around for Halloween
I really wish Riot would just rework Elise into what she was supposed to be if they didn't rush her damn kit with whatever crap they had around for Halloween
Stone Ocean
Member
She already has an extra 50% slow from Permafrost if it hits you with the missed ult, in hindsight that thing shouldn't slow at all to begin with
WesternHeretic
Member
Fk you that fat pig needs to go away.
Stone Ocean
Member
Win with a real champion nerd
Ghost is Bad
Banned
like who
zed?
zed?
I like Caitlyn/Jinx for the cop duo with chompy snares.
Jinx is the sheriff of Damacia.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
no jinx is an officer of the law.
NCR Redslayer
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But Draven IS the law.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Jinx is a cop gone rogue.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
no draven is the draven.
NCR Redslayer
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Who needs to be taken out of office.
Voli disagrees. He's one of the few that can actually take a bite out of crime.
Honestly, at lower elos (gold and down), these things matter so much less than they do at higher elos. Yes, you have a natural counter with Sivir's spell shield, but it's not like superior play and patience can't overcome it.
Because Ice is weak to fire
I'm sorry, the only "counters" in silver are dumb countered by less dumb
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