killatopak
Gold Member
There's a lot of soft counters to Riven that Huni uses. Huni could use J4, Malphite, Renekton and such.
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League of Legends World Championships 2015 |OCT 1-OCT 31|
- Thread starter thestopsign
- Start date
There's a lot of soft counters to Riven that Huni uses. Huni could use J4, Malphite, Renekton and such.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Oh yeah, Fiora will be better at team fights where Darius is more like a clean up reset champ.
This discussion all started because it was said Fiora is better versus Darius match up, but it's really Fiora winning out when the match up doesn't happen and occurs in team fights.
With Darius, you need to build a comp around him to allow the resets. You need strong bursts like Azir to do it, but Koo bans it out a lot.
QSS drops the grand challenge for at least once in two of grand challenge's cooldown. I'd pick that up anyday. He also took it for Elise.
I think Darius is really good against Fiora's splitpush, but Darius is terrible at TP play since he's not an initiator.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Actually the discussion started when you said Darius is a counterpick to Fiora, and my response was that performance and winrates suggest otherwise.
You're tunnelling on the early laning phase where yes Darius has an edge in a normal matchup, though Fiora can still turn it in her favour. She also starts to outscale Darius later on and has more teamfight presence and better splitpush.
I think we have seen that Darius is not a counterpick to her. Riven probably is though.
You're tunnelling on the early laning phase where yes Darius has an edge in a normal matchup, though Fiora can still turn it in her favour. She also starts to outscale Darius later on and has more teamfight presence and better splitpush.
I think we have seen that Darius is not a counterpick to her. Riven probably is though.
thestopsign
Member
Really fun games to watch today. I watched them with a friend that is new to competitive League and he loved it.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Come on and Slam, and welcome to the Jam!
No, we've seen Darius being a better match up against Fiora and the other lanes underperforming.
No, we've seen Darius being a better match up against Fiora and the other lanes underperforming.
killatopak
Gold Member
I have played with Fiora a few times after her rework. It was pretty hard for me back then but it was also just after the stat buffs. She's been nerfed a bit since then so that counterpick might be true. Or it might have been because everything was new to me and I was still getting used to the match up or I suck.
Nice. I feel that if esports get new people motivated then it becomes a real sport.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I think the Fiora vs Riven matchup again probably comes down to whether you can Riposte the stun or not. Similar to the Renekton matchup, though Riven's stun is far less telegraphed. In the majority of situations I think Riven probably wins, but if you Riposte the stun it probably goes Fiora's way. Again, Fiora is probably better in a teamfight though. Late game pretty even in a split, Riven probably ahead.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Wait, the analyst desk is in LA?
killatopak
Gold Member
Yeah I agree. Team fight fiora is just too strong while Riven needs some kind of engage from others to be fully effective.
Come on and Slam, and welcome to the Jam!
Which game did that happen in? I couldn't watch today.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
The last one, Game 4.
killatopak
Gold Member
I think the fiora vs darius match up isn't fully analyzed yet because they are very contested picks and almost always banned in solo q.
mom's spaghetti
killatopak
Gold Member
wow.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Dank meme, but... :/
Well I mean at least the remake helped pinpoint the bug's cause
But yeah, that is rather unfortunate
Considering they don't want the bug to happen again I guess its the safest way to go about it.
At least Ziggs and Lux aren't important picks but it does hurt some of the jungle play though. Might put some more favor into picking up the Elise or Rek'Sai now.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I see teams banning both in some games. In which case the jungle pools will really be tested.
We will maybe see more Nidalee, Lee Sin, Rengar and dare I say it... maybe even a Kench!
We will maybe see more Nidalee, Lee Sin, Rengar and dare I say it... maybe even a Kench!
killatopak
Gold Member
Banning both would be pretty hard for the red side though. Yeah more jungle variations would be nice.
Damn, Gragas disabled will have some consequences on the pick and ban phase. Pls no Nunu :x
killatopak
Gold Member
I love bengi's nunu.
Primethius
Banned
Hopefully Riot can finally get off their asses and fix the bug.
Ouch. This will have a huge impact on drafts I think.
PeskyToaster
Member
Gragas is one of my faves though. At least the others have not been picked
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Really sucks to lose a core team fight jungler.
Interesting numbers:
Worlds Stats for Gragas picks (winrate):
Hojin - 0 (???)
Bengi - 1 (100%)
Reignover - 2 (50%)
Amazing - 4 (75%)
Summer Stats for Gragas picks (winrate):
Reingover - 4 (100%)
Hojin - 6 (50%)
Bengi - 7 (71.4%)
Amazing - 12 (58.3%)
Definitely appears to affect Hojin the least and Amazing the most. Really going to be hard for Origen.
Terbinator
Member
What is the actual bug?
Kirye
Member
Not completely sure on the specifics but very rarely when you use Gragas' Q (The barrel toss) it becomes disabled until you restart the client, sometimes not even after that. I assume that for Ziggs and Lux it would disable Ziggs' satchel toss and Lux's... light ball? I don't know the skill names.
Ultimately Lux and Ziggs aren't a big deal since they're not really big in the meta right now, but Gragas being disabled is huge for some junglers with minimal champion pools. Amazing being the biggest one.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I think Amazing would rather have Elise, but yeah. Blow to his champ pool. He could bring back the Lee Sin.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Amazing only played Lee Sin once in S5 and lost.
Bengi never played Lee Sin in Summer, but has a 50% win rate in 10 Spring games.
But Bengi's fall back is Evelyn where he has won 10 out of 12 games with it in Summer.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Aye, but Lee Sin was buffed on 5.16 (the last patch competitive was on before Worlds iirc) so I'd be surprised if teams hadn't practised it.
They might have to now with Gragas gone.
They might have to now with Gragas gone.
killatopak
Gold Member
I feel blue side would have superiority over this bug. Just ban reksai and first pick elise. Maybe some target bans on junglers and boom suddenly you have this sub par jungler on the red side.
Edit: Nunu would do really well on a juggermaw comp.
Edit: Nunu would do really well on a juggermaw comp.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Yeah, Jungler is such a safe, first pick.
The only counterpick would be Rek'sai into Evelyn, but anyone on Blue wanting to pick Evelyn would just ban Rek'sai.
WesternHeretic
Member
Where is Worlds next year? I'm really hating the times for these games I seem to have miss like 50% of the games this year.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
If Riot can take control of China broadcasting, maybe there next lol
Based on the pattern - guessing North America
WesternHeretic
Member
God bless... god bless. I can actually watch us get shitted on LIVE.
Ambition
Member
Red side effectively has zero target bans now. This is stupid
actually FNC and KT are forcing Blue side to ban Morde/GP, i think SKT bans morde on blue side too
WesternHeretic
Member
Yea I don't understand why red side won't just leave both up until final rotation.
That mean on the 5th ban (blue side) would be force to ban of the two, and then 6th ban (red side) would ban the other. Now if on 5th ban (blue) doesn't ban either then on 6th (red) red doesn't either and now they are both left up. So whatever blue picks with #1 red can take at #2.
I think that's a better solution then just banning both on red and forcing yourself to lose two ban.
Stone Ocean
Member
Red side needs to just go "fuck it" and leave Morde GP and Elise open. Blue side can't pick em all
WesternHeretic
Member
Right you would force blue to ban something if they don't they can only grab one of the OP with FP while you have the next 2 following picks.
Diprosalic
Banned
yeah leave 3 OPs open, pick one and we take two.
Imperfected
Member
I like Fnatic's odds against KOO. Huni's shown he knows how to handle Fiora in lane, at the very least on Riven, and presumably he also knows the match-up on Darius at a minimum. There's no practical way to ban out both, especially red side. I also feel like Fnatic's more likely to pick Kench than ban him, which will probably scare KOO off the Ashe pick entirely in one or more games.
Fnatic's default compositions work fairly well into KOO's, and there just aren't enough non-generic bans available in this meta for them to pick their way out of that problem if Fnatic's smart about it, especially when Fnatic has blue side. I don't really feel like Kuro has any significant edge over Febiven, either.
Fnatic's default compositions work fairly well into KOO's, and there just aren't enough non-generic bans available in this meta for them to pick their way out of that problem if Fnatic's smart about it, especially when Fnatic has blue side. I don't really feel like Kuro has any significant edge over Febiven, either.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Elise, Morde, GP, Lulu, Fiora, Tahm Kench are all contested in these teams.
Hopefully this should open up more or force blue to ban them just in case.
The problem with SKT, though, is that they can ban Morde, GP, Lulu themselves and still have a champion ocean of insanity. It's more like the 5 oceans of the world.
Yeah, SKT has like a Champion Earth instead of a Champion Pool.
Prototype Viktor
Member
Come on and Slam, and welcome to the Jam!
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You're welcome for that signed the Viktor