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[Gilby]

haha pretty good reason.

I actually had never thought of this beore, makes absolutely no sense, but well..

Shhhh! It gives portrait artists a possible career path, don't give people any funny ideas!

Spoiler

It's probably something to do with preventing pictures of people who have been found not guilty from accidentally circulating and being used against them in the future somehow.

 

[levious]

There was a really great NPR segment discussing copying works a few months ago. It was pretty interesting and extremely wide spread in all fields. It's a big part of humans creative process, taking a template and remixing it to create new content.

Was that the segment that included an ibterview with Mark Ronson? That was very good.

 

[Parch]

Sued by a trust acting for a founding member of Spirit who died in 1997? What a farce. If this was about fair compensation this lawsuit should have happened 40 years ago.

This is the problem that I have. The estate does not accurately represent the original writer and his opinion is unknown because he has passed. If he did have a problem with Page/Plant, this would have been addressed years ago. This is just a blatant attempt to cash in on something they had nothing to do with.

 

[Marvie_3]

I guess we can kiss goodbye to creativity if this wins.

Creativity is stealing from other artists now?

 

[Branduil]

Creativity is stealing from other artists now?

Actually, yes. At least partly, the other part is changing what you steal. And I don't think you can convincingly argue that Stairway to Heaven isn't changed considerably from Taurus.

 

[Megalosaro]

For what it's worth, the trust is only suing for one dollar, and credit

 

[BruceCLea]

Am I the only one that thinks those courtroom drawings are kind of awesome? Especially Page.

 

[n64coder]

Am I the only one that thinks those courtroom drawings are kind of awesome? Especially Page.

I agree that it's pretty good. Nothing will ever top Tom Brady's sketch.

 

[fates]

Jimmy Page looks like Michio Kaku these days

 

[Lebron]

A lot of big bands/artists with big discographies suffer from this kind of allegations.

Some are unjustified, and just money attempts.


LZ has flat out not given people credit and had to go back and correct it. It's not the first time. They get no sympathy from me however old they are.

 

[Tizoc]

Wow
No wonder Hirohiko Araki changed the name of the Stand.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Possibly the most successful covers band of all time.

 

[ElTorro]

I just listened to Taurus. The accusation of plagiarism is ridiculous.

 

[n64coder]

On the second day of the trial, Jimmy Page took the stand and testified. There's a nice writeup of the day by Rolling Stone magazine.

Page claimed he had never heard the band's eponymous debut album, noting that there was no way for him to listen to, or even know the existence of, every record in his expansive personal music collection, which he assessed as "4,329 LPs and 5,882 CDs." "To be honest, I could've bought it or been given it," Page stated. He claimed he had never heard "Taurus" until "something appeared on the Internet - there was a buzz going on in the comparison [between "Taurus" and "Stairway"] a few years ago.

Much of the day's testimony centered around the events of December 26th, 1969 - the date of a Led Zeppelin concert in Denver co-headlined by Spirit and heavy rockers Vanilla Fudge. According to Page, Led Zeppelin played first and had to leave immediately after to make the next day's date in Seattle, making it impossible for anyone in the band to have seen Spirit's performance.

Today (third day of trial), Jimmy Page took the stand again.

Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page said on Thursday that the riff he is accused of stealing for the band's 1971 hit "Stairway to Heaven" is in fact a commonly used chord progression similar to a melody from the 1964 movie musical "Mary Poppins."

And on the subject of royalty payments from their catalog:

More recently, a company to benefit members of Led Zeppelin and their heirs distributed more than 6.6 million British pounds last year, the equivalent of more than $9 million in current dollars, from royalty payments on the band's songs over the previous 12 months, Page testified

The trial continues and Plant is expected to take the stand.

 

[HStallion]

Robert Plant testifies he can’t read music or remember the ’60s. Verdict: Still a rock star.

Plant testified that he had no recollection of the 1968 instrumental tune “Taurus,” by the psychedelic rock band Spirit, and that it did not inspire Led Zeppelin’s 1971 hit. “I didn’t remember it then, and I don’t remember it now,” he declared, according to Rolling Stone.

And as for claims that he attended a Spirit concert where he might have heard it — well, Plant noted that he was in a bad car accident only hours later — “part of the windshield buried in the top of my head, which was interesting,” he noted dryly, according to the Independent — and had no memory of the prior evening.

“I don’t have a recollection of mostly anybody I’ve hung out with,” he added, which, according to the Hollywood Reporter, prompted raucous laughter in the gallery.

But even if Plant had heard Spirit perform “Taurus” live, he maintained he couldn’t have transcribed the notes for his guitarist and songwriting partner Page. When defense attorney Peter Anderson asked Plant if he could read or write music, he laughed, according to the Hollywood Reporter. “I haven’t learned that yet,” he said.

If there was ever a trial I wish I could have been called for jury duty it would have been this one. The article is funny enough but the actual events sound great including Robert Plant singing the opening chorus of Stairway to Heaven to the courtroom. I really wish this was televised!

Edit: Its basically a history lesson including Plant talking about when Stairway to Heaven among other neat little facts. I hope some recorded a video.

 

[kruis]

For what it's worth, the trust is only suing for one dollar, and credit

That's hard to believe considering how expensive lawyers are.

 

[Sorcerer]

Wth...why not ?

Probably because there may be legal documents or evidence that the public is not supposed to see, protect Jury identity?

In this case, because its Page and Plant, cameras would be going off constantly.

 

[Sorcerer]

That's hard to believe considering how expensive lawyers are.

Does that credit mean a royalty on the song going forward? That could be huge.

 

[Norml]

Robert Plant testifies he can’t read music or remember the ’60s. Verdict: Still a rock star.





If there was ever a trial I wish I could have been called for jury duty it would have been this one. The article is funny enough but the actual events sound great including Robert Plant singing the opening chorus of Stairway to Heaven to the courtroom. I really wish this was televised!

Edit: Its basically a history lesson including Plant talking about when Stairway to Heaven among other neat little facts. I hope some recorded a video.

What an ass! Can't even admit to ever hearing it.

 

[Sorcerer]

What an ass! Can't even admit to ever hearing it.

I know for a while Robert was badmouthing Stairway. Its very possible that its soley Jimmy who is responsible for copying the song.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Theyre similar, but not enough to consider it plagiarism. The somg structure is quite different. It may have inspired Page but so what? Happens all the time. Shit, just about every punk band in existance sounds more alike then those two songs.


Based on the relatively limited spectrum of variations possible in music compared to other artistic mediums, songs are simply bound to sound similar. Because of that, I dont think you can really say someone stole your song unless its like at least 90% identicle from beginning to end.

 

[rjc571]

How can you claim plagiarism over a single four note progression? That would be like if the first (or one of the first) authors to use the phrase "Once upon a time" sued every other author who used it after they did.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

That's hard to believe considering how expensive lawyers are.

Shouldn't there be statute of limitation of when the artist knew about the infringement and why he filled for lawsuit so late?

http://www.askamusiclawyer.com/archive/is-it-too-late-to-file-a-copyright-infringement-lawsuit.html
http://law.freeadvice.com/intellectual_property/copyright_law/copyright_statute_limitations.htm

Under copyright law, the statute of limitations tolls, or begins running, when the infringement is discovered. So, if someone republished your work as their own six years ago, but you just discovered it, you can still sue for copyright infringement. However, the issue is then raised as to the amount of damages you can collect.

The general rule is that the statute of limitations starts from the date of the last infringing act. However, the courts are divided as to how this applies. Some courts hold that you can recover your damages for the entirety of the infringement so long as a lawsuit is filed within 3 years of the last infringing act; others limit damages to those acts which occurred within the three years leading up to the lawsuit.

In the case of Zeppelin ripping off "Dazed and Confused" :

Holmes has waited more than 40 years to file a plagiarism suit. Due to a statute of limitations, the 70-year-old can only claim royalties and damages for the past three years; and so he's doing just that, seeking actual damages, three years of song profits and statutory damages of $150,000 (£99,000) per infringement. As the track appears on everything from Led Zeppelin's debut to their BBC Sessions, as well as DVDs and compilations, that's no small sum. Enough, certainly, to fund a late retirement.

 

[Volimar]

How can Plant have never learned to read or write music? I mean, I believe him, but HOW?

 

[TwoDurans]

Hope for a speedy dismissal so these guys can wind on down the road.

 

[Walter White Walker]

How can Plant have never learned to read or write music? I mean, I believe him, but HOW?

Maybe this is a "prepare to have your mind blown" moment but many musicians can't read or write music. None of The Beatles could/can do it, Eric Clapton, Elvis Presley, Eddie Van Halen, Jimi Hendrex, Angus Young - the list goes on and on. Even Irving Berlin ("Alexander's Ragtime Band," "White Christmas,", "God Bless America"...) couldn't read or write music.

 

[HStallion]

Maybe this is a "prepare to have your mind blown" moment but many musicians can't read or write music. None of The Beatles could/can do it, Eric Clapton, Elvis Presley, Eddie Van Halen, Jimi Hendrex, Angus Young - the list goes on and on. Even Irving Berlin ("Alexander's Ragtime Band," "White Christmas,", "God Bless America"...) couldn't read or write music.

So they stole that too

 

[JoeyJungle]

Shouldn't there be statute of limitation of when the artist knew about the infringement and why he filled for lawsuit so late?

http://www.askamusiclawyer.com/archive/is-it-too-late-to-file-a-copyright-infringement-lawsuit.html
http://law.freeadvice.com/intellectual_property/copyright_law/copyright_statute_limitations.htm

iirc it's not the artist who's filing the lawsuit, but the son of the band's frontman/guitarist (who had the rights to the song, I think, but never wanted to file a lawsuit). The son controls the estate. The statute of limitations are different in the UK and US, with US statute of limitations being much longer. Taurus toured with Led Zeppelin in the US, which is what gives them grounds to file in the US.

IANAL so I'm not really sure what applies in this case, but I think they've already asked for the case to be dismissed several times and the judge was unwilling to throw the case out, so it's going to court. The statute of limitations might affect the potential amount to be paid, but it doesn't affect the legitimacy of the case at this point.

 

[jett]

Robert Plant testifies he can’t read music or remember the ’60s. Verdict: Still a rock star.





If there was ever a trial I wish I could have been called for jury duty it would have been this one. The article is funny enough but the actual events sound great including Robert Plant singing the opening chorus of Stairway to Heaven to the courtroom. I really wish this was televised!

Edit: Its basically a history lesson including Plant talking about when Stairway to Heaven among other neat little facts. I hope some recorded a video.

Prompted by Anderson, Plant then softly half-spoke, half-sang the lyrics from the stand, according to reports:

There’s a lady who knows all that glitters is gold,

and she’s buying a stairway to heaven.

When she gets there she knows if the stores are all closed,

with a word she can get what she came for.

News reports did not indicate if jurors got goosebumps, but it definitely sounded like a moment.

The plaintiffs have no chance.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Maybe this is a "prepare to have your mind blown" moment but many musicians can't read or write music. None of The Beatles could/can do it, Eric Clapton, Elvis Presley, Eddie Van Halen, Jimi Hendrex, Angus Young - the list goes on and on. Even Irving Berlin ("Alexander's Ragtime Band," "White Christmas,", "God Bless America"...) couldn't read or write music.

R. Kelly can't even read. Not music, he can't read period.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

The plaintiffs have no chance.

FUCK! Jury is chosen by Rock Gods to be witness to the best concert in the world.

 

[HStallion]

The plaintiffs have no chance.

I hope somebody held up a damn lighter or threw up some devil horns!

 

[drspeedy]

I hope somebody held up a damn lighter or threw up some devil horns!

If the plaintiff's attorney had any wherewithal, they'd have a "No Stairway" sign in their briefcase at the ready. Once the jury heard the first few notes.... It's practically over

 

[DiscoJer]

How can Plant have never learned to read or write music? I mean, I believe him, but HOW?

I took band for 2 years in junior high, I could never read it. I would have to write the letters under the notes..

Eventually I just faked playing. There were 5 other people playing my instrument....

 

[thelatestmodel]

Jury finds that Led Zeppelin did not plagiarize

Of course they didn't. Now we can all move on!

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Jury finds that Led Zeppelin did not plagiarize

Of course they didn't. Now we can all move on!

Time to move on, then.

Spoiler

They did plagiarize, btw. I'm sure the singing in the court won the Jury.

 

[Chinese Cartoons]

Stealing is ok.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Time to move on, then.

Spoiler

They did plagiarize, btw. I'm sure the singing in the court won the Jury.

Stealing is ok.

Alltheseflavours.jpg

Good for Zeppelin.

 

[Steve.1981]

Lucky bastards...

Listen, Led Zep are awesome. Stairway is a brilliant song. But Page knows exactly where he got that intro.

And that'll be why they won the case, because it's just the intro he lifted this time.

 

[The Beard]

Lucky bastards...

Listen, Led Zep are awesome. Stairway is a brilliant song. But Page knows exactly where he got that intro.

And that'll be why they won the case, because it's just the intro he lifted this time.

I don't understand how this wasn't considered plagiarism, but Sam Smith's 'Stay With Me' was?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Lucky bastards...

Listen, Led Zep are awesome. Stairway is a brilliant song. But Page knows exactly where he got that intro.

And that'll be why they won the case, because it's just the intro he lifted this time.

Yeah, that's probably it. As much as the rest of the song may not have existed in its form without the iconic intro that builds the base for the awesome song, the rest of the song is quite original and different to be justified "not plagiarized".

 

[teruterubozu]

I don't understand how this wasn't considered plagiarism, but Sam Smith's 'Stay With Me' was?

That never went to trial. They made a co-writers agreement.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Thus is a court case that should have happened decades ago. At this point I'm not upset with the decision. Seemed like a money grab even if they did have some merit.

 

[Killer Queen]

The intro is similar but it's not that similar so I don't understand why people are freaking out in here.

 

[The Beard]

That never went to trial. They made a co-writers agreement.

Ok, that makes sense.

The intro is similar but it's not that similar so I don't understand why people are freaking out in here.

The intro is very similar. Led Zeppelin also opened for Spirit prior to writing 'Stairway to Heaven', so they were definitely aware of this band, and may have even heard 'Taurus' at that time.

 

[Steve.1981]

The intro is very similar. Led Zeppelin also opened for Spirit years earlier, so they were definitely aware of this band.

Yeah, but I actually admire the brass-neck it took for both Page and Plant to stand up in court and go with the, "Maaan...I never even heard this other song till, like, two weeks ago! Honest!" defence.

 

[Dishwalla]

Cool, now we can go back to having Stairway as the greatest and best song in the history of the world.

 

[HStallion]

I mean for those saying Zeppelin ripped off the song Tauras, you do realize that intro is part of a public domain and has been for hundreds of years. Listen to the following composition, ‘Sonata di Chittarra, e Violino, con il suo Basso Continuo’ as originally written by 1600s composer Giovanni Battista Granata, specifically the melody that emerges around the 0:32 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKpbJ5Kjy2I

I believe this was actually a big part of the Zeppelin lawyers defense.

 

[bill0527]

I mean for those saying Zeppelin ripped off the song Tauras, you do realize that intro is part of a public domain and has been for hundreds of years. Listen to the following composition, ‘Sonata di Chittarra, e Violino, con il suo Basso Continuo’ as originally written by 1600s composer Giovanni Battista Granata, specifically the melody that emerges around the 0:32 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKpbJ5Kjy2I

I believe this was actually a big part of the Zeppelin lawyers defense.

And there it is....

 

[partyphone]

yeah these songs are based on the same, and well known, note progression. like summer rain by johnny rivers which was also released in 68.