melonrabbit
Member
How do you feel about the brothers idle, Terra and Magnum?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Legend of Zelda Mafia |OT| A Lynch to the Past
- Thread starter Sawneeks
- Start date
How do you feel about the brothers idle, Terra and Magnum?
Not sure about Magnum, but Terra is just as spotty here as he was in WWE Mafia.
Terra turned out to be scum in WWE Mafia.
Given the presence of a thief, I doubt anyone will speak up now that Natiko's alignment is confirmed.
MagnumBoy20xx
Neo Member
OK, so I was looking through the votes and noticed something interesting.
On post 1851 kawl randomly votes for stanley, causing a tie. Four minutes later, he switches his vote back to CCS. Knowing what we know now, that kawl was town, this seems like and odd move. However, I think I know what he was doing: baiting melonrabbit. As Cabot has pointed out, melon said that she would switch her vote if there was a push for Stan. Kawl, by switching to Stan and causing a tie, gave her the opportunity to do what she said she would do. However, after four minutes of waiting, melon did nothing. So kawl moved his vote back onto CCS to prevent the tie from actually occuring.
I know that melon has explained her reasoning behind not switching, but something just feels off about it to me. Because of this, I am leaning towards melon being scum.
vote: melonrabbit
On post 1851 kawl randomly votes for stanley, causing a tie. Four minutes later, he switches his vote back to CCS. Knowing what we know now, that kawl was town, this seems like and odd move. However, I think I know what he was doing: baiting melonrabbit. As Cabot has pointed out, melon said that she would switch her vote if there was a push for Stan. Kawl, by switching to Stan and causing a tie, gave her the opportunity to do what she said she would do. However, after four minutes of waiting, melon did nothing. So kawl moved his vote back onto CCS to prevent the tie from actually occuring.
I know that melon has explained her reasoning behind not switching, but something just feels off about it to me. Because of this, I am leaning towards melon being scum.
vote: melonrabbit
What do you mean by defensive? Townie being wrongly accused?
Defensive to me sounds scummy, not townie.
Magnum I think is fine for now. I can see him making that AB analysis.
AB I'm less certain of, but the unvote on D1 is odd from scum's PoV.
AbsolutBro
Member
No, not really. Presumably two groups, scum and an SK are killing. Some wondered why cabot was alive and cabot suspected that at the very least scum did not kill him because scum wanted him alive to tunnel melon. I was responding to that idea, put forth by them. I was pointing out other reasonably plausible scenarios and opined in which I considered most likely.
I won't begin to speculate on the SK's win condition, so it follows I cannot fathom the SKs reasons for targeting whoever they targeted.
Can/have you answered: what did you hope the outcome of your survey at the beginning of the game would be? What was its purpose?
Not "defensive", "on the defensive". Sophia had to spend a good portion of D1 defending herself and her posts. As I said I have not really played extensively with Sophia, so I am unsure how that impacts her "usual" play style.
Hmm, does that mean there's something bothering you about her which you equate to being because she's on the defensive?
I'd like to hear why you almost assume cabot is town as well. I've only played against him in his town guise, but I would imagine he could make a convincing play as scum.
I don't think it's too unusual for cabot to be alive right now. We don't know who the kills belong to as of yet. The only thing that seems consistent is that a conversational leader (Sorian and then Kawl) has died both nights.
As for Splinter, I need to re-look him over, but he seems... passive off the top of my heaed?
As for Splinter, I need to re-look him over, but he seems... passive off the top of my heaed?
AbsolutBro
Member
Re: Sophia - Not really? I mostly mention it for people who have played with her more than I have. There has been a lot of "so and so is playing differently than they usually do" being used as justification for votes it seems.
I largely town read Sophia because, despite being a lynch contender D1, she was engaged and active D2. I feel like scum would probably shrink their activity back if they were almost lynched.
Re: cabot - I town read cabot because he's been meticulous this game. He has called out inconsistency, been willing to vote outside the vote leaders, and has generally played a good town game. Is it possible he's scum? Sure, of course. Everyone one of you could be.
melonrabbit
Member
Just for fun. Wasn't meant to be anything super serious. I was riding high on the pre-game shitposting and felt like it.
Something is feeling off to me with one of Stanley's posts.
It seems to me like this isn't town speaking to town. It feels like you're putting on a bit of a show meant for everyone, or that you're watching a show you're not really part of.
Earlier today melon brought up that I had been an SK in a previous game, and I've been trying to think of a way I could use that experience to help us out. What I know if that the two previous times I was a neutral killer, my win condition was a variation of "Kill 3 Players". If it's the same here as in the other games, who ever this is is one night away from walking out of here.
Now, just because this person had two kills already doesn't mean they're safe from being lynched before they can get their last kill. I don't think this hit me until Cabot posted the excel sheet votes, but
Stanley was pretty close to being lynched yesterday. Now, with Natiko and CzarTim being out of the picture, he's in a much better spot today than he was yesterday. Still not sure who the Neutral actually targeted last night, but whether they hit Kawl or the Lovers, things ended up looking good for Stanley if he was the SK.
VOTE: StanleyPalmtree
A few of your other posts have me concerned, too. Kind of like you're detached from the game, and not really worried about letting town or scum down.
It seems to me like this isn't town speaking to town. It feels like you're putting on a bit of a show meant for everyone, or that you're watching a show you're not really part of.
Earlier today melon brought up that I had been an SK in a previous game, and I've been trying to think of a way I could use that experience to help us out. What I know if that the two previous times I was a neutral killer, my win condition was a variation of "Kill 3 Players". If it's the same here as in the other games, who ever this is is one night away from walking out of here.
Now, just because this person had two kills already doesn't mean they're safe from being lynched before they can get their last kill. I don't think this hit me until Cabot posted the excel sheet votes, but
some visuals for you:
DAY 1 END OF DAY VOTES:
DAY 2 END OF DAY VOTES:
Stanley was pretty close to being lynched yesterday. Now, with Natiko and CzarTim being out of the picture, he's in a much better spot today than he was yesterday. Still not sure who the Neutral actually targeted last night, but whether they hit Kawl or the Lovers, things ended up looking good for Stanley if he was the SK.
VOTE: StanleyPalmtree
A few of your other posts have me concerned, too. Kind of like you're detached from the game, and not really worried about letting town or scum down.
1) Kawl wasn't a higher poster than me, so going on that alone means I'd be above Kawl in priority. Kawl's push for CCS wasn't exactly seen as the most Town play either.
2) Pretty good reason was if melon was scum and kill the guy tunneling her. It's not as easy to push melon as scum if I'm dead. Not impossible, but more difficult.
Keeping one of the active town players alive is a valid tactic, case in point proven by *Splinter instantly changing up on me. The longer they live, the more suspicious they become.
I'm sort of with you on this one, there's something very no fucks given about Stan this game, much more than normal. He's barely even trying to play at this point. Just shitposts.
That being said
Stan as scum - melon and nin not voting him. I went into detail here:
Stan as SK - his general attitude in this game, him being targeted by Natiko and almost got lynched.
That's two theories that sort of contradict each other, I still feel nin and melon backing off from voting him when they could've lynched him the more convincing.
Stan as scum - melon and nin not voting him. I went into detail here:
Stan as SK - his general attitude in this game, him being targeted by Natiko and almost got lynched.
That's two theories that sort of contradict each other, I still feel nin and melon backing off from voting him when they could've lynched him the more convincing.
Question for the room:
How do you define what constitutes frustrated town vs scum
Obviously the natural reaction to scum under pressure if to defend themselves and not do much else. Tell everyone the reasons why your lynch is terrible vs trying to sell your own targets.
However, more skilled players would know to avoid that as scum, but they still have a job to do in the game thread. Negative outlooks, bringing the morale of the group down to make then genuinely believe they are done for, and we're just turning the cogs until the win condition is met.
Where does the line blend between the two definitions?
How do you define what constitutes frustrated town vs scum
Obviously the natural reaction to scum under pressure if to defend themselves and not do much else. Tell everyone the reasons why your lynch is terrible vs trying to sell your own targets.
However, more skilled players would know to avoid that as scum, but they still have a job to do in the game thread. Negative outlooks, bringing the morale of the group down to make then genuinely believe they are done for, and we're just turning the cogs until the win condition is met.
Where does the line blend between the two definitions?
For instance, I look at melon and AB, both self proclaimed frustrated town.
From AB, that seems to mean mostly inactivity and excusing himself for it, but when he posts he offers insights and such, tries to engage with other posts and get a conversation going. AB's tone in general is a lot more analytical and feels like he's trying to solve the puzzle.
From melon, I get a bad mood, I get poor explanations for previous actions and I get a scumread back to me for no reason. She will try to initiate other targets like Bronx, but she's also cautious of how her vote looks to others.
The key difference here is I tunneled one but not the other, but frankly being frustrated at a tunnel isn't a particularly useful alignment tell. The very nature of a tunnel, you're going to get annoyed and frustrated by it, because either you're town and the tunnel is completely wrong, or you're scum and you're just annoyed you've been caught in the headlights and no matter what you do it won't let up.
From AB, that seems to mean mostly inactivity and excusing himself for it, but when he posts he offers insights and such, tries to engage with other posts and get a conversation going. AB's tone in general is a lot more analytical and feels like he's trying to solve the puzzle.
From melon, I get a bad mood, I get poor explanations for previous actions and I get a scumread back to me for no reason. She will try to initiate other targets like Bronx, but she's also cautious of how her vote looks to others.
The key difference here is I tunneled one but not the other, but frankly being frustrated at a tunnel isn't a particularly useful alignment tell. The very nature of a tunnel, you're going to get annoyed and frustrated by it, because either you're town and the tunnel is completely wrong, or you're scum and you're just annoyed you've been caught in the headlights and no matter what you do it won't let up.
This feels a lot like late stage NX right now. Everyone I read as solid Town is dead, everyone else alive is at best a town lean. Not enough trust there to really work off.
I'm questioning myself over melon, so the next best thing to look at is the votes.
melon still looks suspicious based on votes alone. Stan, nin and Ynnek also look fairly dubious. I think *Splinter could make sense as a scum with a well placed bus and a second lynch that gives us information.
Does anyone have any other theories they would like to discuss or share?
I'm questioning myself over melon, so the next best thing to look at is the votes.
melon still looks suspicious based on votes alone. Stan, nin and Ynnek also look fairly dubious. I think *Splinter could make sense as a scum with a well placed bus and a second lynch that gives us information.
Does anyone have any other theories they would like to discuss or share?
There's nothing to say until we get a result from it, Natiko made it clear you couldn't use it on the same night as being given, speculating currently on it is worthless.
melonrabbit
Member
Just lynch me, Cabot.
Beyond done with this.
Beyond done with this.
Thats it ?
Did you ever play a game with stan ?
I dont know yennek but you are giving me the same vibes you did last game we played together.
Laying low and not even trying to bother anyone.
Vote:Ynnek7
let Town eat itself up. While scum is hiding in the back
Can you tell me in 3 sentences why you believe that Melon is scum ?
since she is now doing the exact thing you mentioned here.
I think scum is calmer and sort of more thoughtful, but perhaps with bad arguments. That's kinda my reaction when I'm pushed as scum, I keep myself calm and rational, but at the same time I know very well they're totally right and I like to stay as honest as possible as scum (I'm a really bad liar).
I think scum generally has this negative attitude towards town tho. Like take Pop, when I started speculating on what Crab had done Burb and Saw both played my arguments down and doubted. They weren't hoping that we had cleared players from a cop.
Tangent to that I find scum to sometimes be quite arrogant. They know how silly most of town's speculation is.
This is sort of my point I was trying to open a discussion and you instantly dismiss with a kill me.
You lynched CCS for this sort of shit, do you not care for your team?
The thing that keeps sticking out again and again with Sophia for me is that her stances are really soft. She scum read me D1, contemplated leaving her vote on me and then never mentioned me again until D2 was almost over. She reads people, but it doesn't look like she actually cares about those reads.
She chose in favour of acohrs on D1, at a crucial point. So that was a good play for Town in the end.
I don't see it as a good bus because of her lack of a D2 vote. That's just pointlessly giving herself attention, even the easy CCS lynch was better than a no vote.
nin and splinter would be strongest.
🤔
Why not Kyanrute?
the timing of his vote read Town to me and generally I think he's been fairly useful, compared to other games I've seen him as scum where there's little real content.
🙄
Huh, melon V Cabot has been going since D1.
My first instinct here is that melon is caught scum. Her D1 vote was "convenient", her contributions have been fairly negative, and she seemed confused about her stance on Cabot on day 2. I've been fairly solidly scumreading her since then.
On the other hand, cabot's extreme tunnel on her reminds me of my own scum play: identify a lynchable townie and don't let go until they're dead. I still think the first option is more likely, but this is my niggling doubt.
...On the third hand, I haven't been able to shake the feeling that the melon / Cabot feud has been entirely fake and they're scummates riding out the game by focusing only on each other. I can't put my finger on why I keep thinking this.
Currently expecting to vote melon today, looking back at D1 now. Consider me "undecided" on Cabot.
My first instinct here is that melon is caught scum. Her D1 vote was "convenient", her contributions have been fairly negative, and she seemed confused about her stance on Cabot on day 2. I've been fairly solidly scumreading her since then.
On the other hand, cabot's extreme tunnel on her reminds me of my own scum play: identify a lynchable townie and don't let go until they're dead. I still think the first option is more likely, but this is my niggling doubt.
...On the third hand, I haven't been able to shake the feeling that the melon / Cabot feud has been entirely fake and they're scummates riding out the game by focusing only on each other. I can't put my finger on why I keep thinking this.
Currently expecting to vote melon today, looking back at D1 now. Consider me "undecided" on Cabot.
Ok so CCS' flip confirmed that D1 was a town v scum thunderdome. On top of that I'd argue there was very little separating the two candidates. Both were goofing off and attracting attention, they were even heavily involved with each other, both pulling the same self-voting shenanigans, etc. Point being there was very little need to justify a vote on one over the other. From memory most people (myself included) indicated an intention to vote "CCS or acohrs" and the final vote could probably have been chosen by coin flip for many of us. It was also leaning toward a CCS lynch until very late.
So while there is "probably" scum on acohrs, I'm saying there is "definitely" scum on CCS.
Also, with all that in mind I'm wary of anyone who would rather hunt for bus votes than follow the strongest lead we'll ever see.
I'll also address the accusations that I had a bus vote, since I think I've ignored it so far.
When I made my vote, CCS was in the lead by a vote or 2. As a scum buddy to acohrs, all I had to do at that point is drop another vote on CCS, and the day would have been over without incident. To play it safe I would wait for the lead to reduce and then vote CCS "to avoid a tie". There would be little or no repercussion for that, even if acohrs eventually flipped.
(Aside: this also makes me think nin is unlikely to be scum, but "nin gonna nin" so who really knows)
Also, I think the accusation is that I intentionally avoided posting until the final minutes? No need to take my word on this, I've made very clear in the past my feelings about the "intentionally not posting" strategy (hint: it's awful and anyone who uses it should be ashamed for valuing a slightly higher chance of winning over a fun game). In short: I lost track of time and came back just in time for day end, nothing sinister there.
Still reading D1, but there was plenty of analysis D2 using "CCS is town" as an assumption, so I'm not expecting to find any more than the obvious (Stan and melon, from memory).
So while there is "probably" scum on acohrs, I'm saying there is "definitely" scum on CCS.
Also, with all that in mind I'm wary of anyone who would rather hunt for bus votes than follow the strongest lead we'll ever see.
I'll also address the accusations that I had a bus vote, since I think I've ignored it so far.
When I made my vote, CCS was in the lead by a vote or 2. As a scum buddy to acohrs, all I had to do at that point is drop another vote on CCS, and the day would have been over without incident. To play it safe I would wait for the lead to reduce and then vote CCS "to avoid a tie". There would be little or no repercussion for that, even if acohrs eventually flipped.
(Aside: this also makes me think nin is unlikely to be scum, but "nin gonna nin" so who really knows)
Also, I think the accusation is that I intentionally avoided posting until the final minutes? No need to take my word on this, I've made very clear in the past my feelings about the "intentionally not posting" strategy (hint: it's awful and anyone who uses it should be ashamed for valuing a slightly higher chance of winning over a fun game). In short: I lost track of time and came back just in time for day end, nothing sinister there.
Still reading D1, but there was plenty of analysis D2 using "CCS is town" as an assumption, so I'm not expecting to find any more than the obvious (Stan and melon, from memory).
If CCS has flipped scum, that would have been enough to clear Sophia in my mind (I think she was the third candidate and favoured by CCS?).
Since he flipped town it confirms that D1 was a strong a lead as we had hoped.
So I disagree it was a bad lynch, even if the result wasn't hugely surprising.
Or a watcher
But yeah I forgot to mention that, acohrs wasn't an insignificant pr by any stretch.
editing is forbidden, I don't know what you're talking about.
