Sumio Mondo
Member
MP3 was fucking awful.
Leslie Benzies (GTA Big Wig) sues TT for $150M in unpaid royalties, ousted by Housers
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
MP3 was fucking awful.
flaxknuckles
Member
If Leslie wins he better not go to a first-party console company or I'm eating my legs with a spoon and framing him for it. If he doesn't retire happily, I don't see why with all the gazillions he has he wouldn't start his own company especially after he and the Housers tried to create their own independent studio before.
No way it wouldn't be. If you were to look at Rockstar staff as a pyramid, Benzies is right under the Housers in regards to being a significant player in nearly all of their major IPs.
They lost a crucial player in their products when he left, but now we know he didn't choose to leave...
Because it is confused as wealth.
Brendan Sinclair from Gamesindustry.biz is tweeting details from the lawsuit.
https://twitter.com/BrendanSinclair/status/719927316466561024
WOW this right here is dynamite and if true does not bode well for GTA games forward. Considering they'll continue to get more complex.
I wonder how many times Benzies saved their bacon...
Simply Sami
Member
Why would he risk his own money into starting his own company?
That would be silly unless he is making mobile games.
What if he wants to work, and isn't caught in the bullshit problem that he has to work?
If he gives a shit about game development - and I assume he does, because of the efforts he's accomplished with Rockstar - winning this case at least gives him some cushion money if he wished to make his own studio or something.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Publishers try to screw developers out of royalties all the time, it's not rare at all.
flaxknuckles
Member
How is it silly? Lots of devs with way less money do it and this is the guy behind GTA. He doesn't have to spend 250 million on the first game but could easily gain a huge following with smaller budgets starting off if he was responsible as much as we think he was for GTA's success.
Said no one ever before
I've seen the writing heavily criticized all the way back to gta3. Especially 4 and VC.
I geuinely have no idea how you could make the above post with a straight face.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Not surprising to me that they'd treat someone this way.
Hope Les wins.
Hope Les wins.
flaxknuckles
Member
The stories are horrible but at least the dialogue was hilarious until GTA V. Don't know what happened there.
Feel free to share the reviews of "criticism". Rockstar is one of the best. The writing is no exception.
Pathfinder
Member
The writing for both Vice City and GTA4 was heavily praised.
It's impossible to please everyone, though. I know we're upset at the Housers right now, but to call them bad writers is a bit over the top. You don't get to where they are without knowing how to write and develop an engaging story.
I still dont understand the timeline of Benzies still thinking all was well and attempting to return to work after his sabbatical. Seems so bizarre to be told to fuck off, no wonder he initiated his questions/demands the day after - he seemed to be completed sideswiped...
Issues seem to surround GTA:O and his overall involvement, I know GTA:O had a lot of teething problems but cant think of that as anything but a success (and perhaps a worry where R* might have been heading)
ps3ud0 8)
Issues seem to surround GTA:O and his overall involvement, I know GTA:O had a lot of teething problems but cant think of that as anything but a success (and perhaps a worry where R* might have been heading)
ps3ud0 8)
The myth of the man that changes it all (or does it all), even on projects were hundreds or a thousand of people are involved during years.
I love how in last few hours gaf just became the experts of Rockstar's internal management in the last 15 years (and who is the genius or not).
Oh wow...I've never really followed Rockstar very much, I'm the sole human being who hasn't really been into GTA since San Andreas, but I wasn't even aware of this Leslie Benzies person being such an important figure, always hear about the Housers.
From our incredibly blurry viewpoint, this just looks like another example of too much money making people fucking crazy and make stupid decisions. I never understand how this happens. Why would you go and fuck up a good thing you have going by trying to screw someone out of what is rightfully theirs, and thus placing your own ability to do great things and get lots of money at great risk? If this person is so intensely important, and integral to the success of your game series, which is one of the best selling franchises in gaming...why risk fucking that up?
I hope I never make a ridiculous amount of money that causes my brain to melt for no reason.
From our incredibly blurry viewpoint, this just looks like another example of too much money making people fucking crazy and make stupid decisions. I never understand how this happens. Why would you go and fuck up a good thing you have going by trying to screw someone out of what is rightfully theirs, and thus placing your own ability to do great things and get lots of money at great risk? If this person is so intensely important, and integral to the success of your game series, which is one of the best selling franchises in gaming...why risk fucking that up?
I hope I never make a ridiculous amount of money that causes my brain to melt for no reason.
LiquidSolid
Member
Who needs to be an expert on Rockstar's internal management when we've got direct fucking quotes from emails sent from Sam Houser to Benzies begging him to fix Red Dead?
Storm Chamber
Banned
Thought the title said Lazlow for a minute.
Looks like Daz wasn't the only one jerked by Rockstar
Looks like Daz wasn't the only one jerked by Rockstar
The Albatross
Member
Get real, maybe you, me, and people really into GTA or Rockstar, but the average videogame fan/enthusiast didn't know who he was until his GTA online interview. Even in all of these threads you have people asking who he is... Heck this thread title was amended to say "GTA big wig" because most people would look at it and say "... who?" while nearly everybody identifies the Housers with Rockstar and GTA.
THat said, I'm not implying anything based on his relative obscurity outside of what I said. His first noteworthy public interview came at the GTA Online reveal (Which he didn't allow to have his voice/photo associated with...) and many people were surprised that the Housers didn't comment on it, and it seemed like Benzies was the only rep for it. This together with Benzies' legal claim seems to suggest that the Housers and him did not see eye to eye on GTA Online... which the release of incidentally preceded his 6month sabbatical from the company.
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
I'd argue if the gameplay is engaging enough that you can get by with mediocre to bad writing. I've always thought their writing was subpar and people just really enjoyed the open world gameplay. Maybe a lot of people buy it for the story though.
I'd be one of those people who don't know either of these people by name, but hearing people describe Leslie as being as important as he is then I'll be interested in seeing how this shapes their future games. I always thought Rockstar was kind of greedy when it came to money though? Again, people seem to hold the Housers in high regard though.
In terms of following news out of Rockstar, no one has. They're the most secretive developer in the history of video games and run such a tight ship that nothing ever gets out besides whispers and rumors.
The Albatross
Member
Yep this.
There aren't many studios that regularly put out major games with better writing. The stories are cliched (GTAIII, VC, or SA) or poorly formed (IV & V) but the writing in all three of them is pretty damn good. Sure, they're packed with adolescent puns and stupid, childish jokes, but there's a hell of a lot of good writing and voice-acting in those games, at least compared with gaming as a whole.
Well in my book, Rockstar isnt one of them. Valve is the only one I can really depend on having it solid every time. Maybe Remedy in the Max Payne 1 and 2 days. Beyond that, Housers writing wants to be their favorite movies so bad it hurts. This isnt really the topic for it though. (My fault anyway lol)
Pathfinder
Member
You do realize that most of their stories intentionally pay homage to something, yes?
grosvenor_92
Member
This is most likely get settled out of court but this is a megaton
Yes and it ends up being worse and more clumsy than the source half the time. Whats the point?
DarkArterialGore
Member
I'd be pissed off too if Dan Houser's no-talent little brother vetoed my well deserved royalty payments.
The Albatross
Member
I agree with you that Valve consistently puts out good writing. But to be fair to the rest of developers, Valve has released 1 game in nearly 10 years that has any dialog in it, and it probably amounts to about ~45minutes of total dialog in the 10 hour campaign of Portal 2.
GTAV probably has as much dialog in the first hour of gameplay as Portal 2 has in the entire game... And Portal 2 also really went to the well with the writing. I think Portal was written better, but also possibly because it wasn't trying as hard.
Rockstar has a lot of cheesy lines in GTAV, but there's also a lot of great dialog. I thought the "Hipster convo" between Michael and Trevor late in GTAV was really good... It took me by surprise and sounded like a light hearted but heated argument that two friends would have about how the other is a hipster. I'd consider Officer Tenpenny from GTA:SA to be one of the best written characters in any game... Even other characters like Cesar, CJ's sister, and his brother are all pretty well done in that game.
But really, I think most videogame writing is really, really bad, and Rockstar is one of the few studios that doesn't have outright horrible writing.
Kremzeek
Member
Yeah its unfathomable to me how the heads of a company that is swimming in cash can stab such a valuable employee in the back like that.
Dan Houser also writes pedestrian dialogue and the fake radio commercials with Lazlow and the DJ banter and the talk radio. And does it well imo.
That's all a pretty important part of GTA for me, but when a game sells dozens of millions of copies different aspects of it appeal more (or less) to different people.
That's all a pretty important part of GTA for me, but when a game sells dozens of millions of copies different aspects of it appeal more (or less) to different people.
valkillmore
Member
Benz gonna make another IP the new open world king. What company is most likely to target him? Ubi right?
Bluekaveli
Member
This thread has 619d my teenage years. They need to get this shit together. Benzino is too big.
No, she left because the studio didn't like where Uncharted was going under her direction. She also considered retiring or doing small stuff after she left until she got offered Star Wars.
MMaRsu
Member
Thats because noone of Rockstar studios come out and say anything to the press aside from the very few Houser interviews.
You are right to say that to the casual mainstream crowd Rockstar is GTA, many of them will not know who Sam or Dan Houser are if you ask them,let alone leslie Benzies.
Im saying that in gaming circles, the name leslie benzies is not unknown and I find it strange to even insinuate that. Not disagreeing with anything else you said.
eyeball_kid
Member
In addition to the emails showing the Housers were helpless to fix an off-the-rails project without Benzies' input and guidance, I'm also drawing on personal experience with large creative projects, and personal experience with certain CEOs and upper management who, in their hubris and narcissism, don't see the value of their talent. These sorts of people got to the top via a form of sociopathy and paranoia in which they view every aspect of their success as foundationally due to their skills alone. Everyone is replaceable. They typically stepped on many people to climb up to the top, and thus they see everyone else as a potential threat; self-perception transforms external perception.
I would also say that though most low-tier and some mid-tier people are fairly replaceable, there are some people whose exceptional talent brings exceptional capabilities to an organization. Especially so when there is a creative context to their work.
The Housers might have come to see themselves as too reliant on Benzies, or disliked that he was putting a media focus on himself and began to see him as a threat to their image and control. Who knows; we're only seeing the first blush of guano that has gone on inside this company. All I know is that what I've seen so far of their behavior fits into patterns I've encountered before.
mikezilla2
Member
throught he died ?( wait im thinking of the rockstar logo)
this is pretty disheartening
is there currently any employees out there currently writing out there there ?
least this isn't konami
Dr Duncan Steel
Member
On a more serious note; this is ugly as hell. Hope it doesn't outright destroy Rockstar productivity wise. Even though it's been pretty broken for awhile given the many souls it took to make Red Dead.
That was a damn fine game.
And so was Max Payne 3, you fucks!
It is a huge risk, he wouldn't be the first to bank on his 'Grand Theft Auto' role and still fail. David Jones from Grand Theft Auto and Grand Theft Auto 2 encountered that problem. He has done like five games, and Crackdown is the only one noteworthy.
Brendan Sinclair from Gamesindustry.biz is tweeting details from the lawsuit.
https://twitter.com/BrendanSinclair/status/719927316466561024
Feel The Benz!
It´s pretty awesome, but it´s so sad we only get a glimpse of the real thing through sues (or from stories from long time ago, like the ones we see in Retrogamer). But I guess it can't be helped and it´s not like it´s something exclusive of videogames.
We dont know about the specifics of the contract but when a higher up or a company talks about "the team", "the company" or "our family" more times than less it means that your personal rights, contractual or not, are going to be trampled in favor of the company, so this doesnt sounds good to me.
j0hnny_385
Member
Les Benz...it's Scottish for The Benz.
Fascinating read and insight into R*
*grabs popcorn and cheers for Les Benz*
Fascinating read and insight into R*
*grabs popcorn and cheers for Les Benz*
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Veni Vidi Benzie
That what the whole email about saving RDR sounds.
And doesnt surprise me the Housers huge egos getting in the way of a good working studio enviroment. It happens in small teams when ego and money start getting out of hand, Im sure it happenes also in the big ones, and much worse.
Basically this from my experience also.
That what the whole email about saving RDR sounds.
And doesnt surprise me the Housers huge egos getting in the way of a good working studio enviroment. It happens in small teams when ego and money start getting out of hand, Im sure it happenes also in the big ones, and much worse.
Basically this from my experience also.
