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[veterangamerUK]

Will this be like the Atari ST / Amiga time? Some games developed on the ST and lazily ported to Amiga without taking advantage of its better specs - same with Xbox Series S to PS5?

 

[Redlight]

They already lost 35-40 million. It's not even a question of fact here... millions of defections occurred over the previous gen. So the question is...... are you going to argue all of those were casuals? Are you going to argue all of those defections were the result of Don Matrick's initial fuck up? Did all those 35-40 million defections occurred all on the first two years (Xbox 360 honeymoon phase) or more like mid-gen when the PS4 took off with exclusive banger after banger? Please.....

The kicker.... we can clearly see where those millions of defections went - almost a straight line crossover.....overwhelming majority to PS4's fat 110 million +. Of Sony's projected 150 million console users for PS5 where do you think the majority of the 30+ million on top of the 110 already on PS4 will come from? Let me give you a hint.......... Xbox's ever shrinking 35-45 million pie.

The Xbox One family had the price, had the power, had the sweet talking B.Stter aka the savior aka Philochio Spencer but it couldn't turn it around. Hec they've had homecooking too....a bootlicking press that barely touches them fuck up after fuck up....very understanding of Miscrosoft's strategies as if they were MS shareholders.... rooting for the underdog. Hec the press pushes Gamepass as if it were their own. How many breaks?

So what is/was it that was missing? What has been the central issue for the brand for years?

Quality content and exclusives that set it apart from PlayStation.

Xbox tried the perception management narrative (never apologized), the price narrative, ultimately the power narrative and nothing......what's left? How can this be argued to be something else? Isn't it that obvious?

Defections will only continue. You've seen the hugely lopsided polls, you know the chatter on social media etc? The hec are you trying to argue? We have insiders and influencers outing themselves as shills pushing lies about PS because the scales are getting out of control.... you think shit ain't looking bad after that shitshow July event? And now this console leaks without a proper event... shit goes from bad to worse...

Shit is so bad gamers had a collective funeral reception for Xbox's flagship, Xbox's baby, the holiday savior....Halo Infinite. Not even Xbox's biggest detractors could have dreamed of that one. The pinnacle of incompetence and ineptitude.

How can you fuck up the exclusive games so bad when in the business of making a games console? After 6 years of wait you think the Xbox hardcore are not tired of the BS and lies.... you think they are all here like the few laggards still fighting the good fight? Nah.... they already know where their money will go next-gen.



They're the most popular that's true. The more platforms, the wider the audience - it's not really rocket science.

How does that in any way, shape or form degrade the impact or importance of exclusives games that differentiate Y product from X product? Basic marketing here...

There is no narrative to upset here... you just think you have a trump card of the old tired "only third parties matter" narrative. Yet the console most dependent on third parties for its success is the lowest selling this generation? Ohh geeee.... work on that one.



The kitchen sink approach... throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. I already sent Nadella my resume... I can do the same as Phil and demand less than a third of his paycheck.

It actually shows the lack of ideas aka beaten down to a pulp. Everything bunched together without paying particular attention at excellence and quality. The good thing about the kitchen sink approach is that it's low effort, and probabilities are good that at least something will stick..... has to stick.... right? right? The alternative is to live in an alternate universe where decisions and time could be rolled back or simply, shutting/selling/spinning off the Xbox division for good.

Not to mention, PS Now exist (Gamepass, XCloud hybrid), Stadia exists, Gamefly exists... and before that Gakai, OnLive etc... Just cause Microsoft is doing it doesn't mean its new or fresh. They're just devoting a lot of their marketing resources and industry clout to push it - unlike other players. A bet...



Weasel words - ok? Maybe it's just Nintendo being living proof for a long timeeeeeeeeee now. Decade + in fact. But you're free to try to characterize it as you wish.

At least you're not disputing that I don't provide that important context when I say those words which is much needed clarification. That is not for you per say to believe but others reading- that's clarified so we good on that. I still maintain the argument. Third parties will eventually drop support for Series S if that console sells like shit. In this scenario not only is the gap in sales huge but the power between the market leader - 10 TF vs. 4 TF will also be huge. To think otherwise about MS strong-arming devs is to overestimate Microsoft's power in the industry. I can see EA going till the end with MS (partners in crime) but others? Good luck. In the probabilities scale there is always a chance for your opinion to play out. To me it just appears unlikely....



From mandating to "no choice" (due to whatever it's that @MrFunSocks is trying to suggest) is a long way. If mandated sure, which only raises the likelihood of PlayStation getting more exclusives by default. If the disparity in the total number of current gen games released for each platform (PS4/Pro vs. Xbox One/X) is anything to go by...... Boy. Add an even worse scenario and we're indeed looking at PS2 days.

I'm going to try and distill this diatribe down into it's bones and take it point by point.

1) Xbox One didn't sell very well compared to Playstation 4.
True. The messaging at launch was confused and contradictory. They packed in a peripheral that a lot of people didn't want. They were less powerful and more expensive. That's where the damage was done. Forget the first two years, the war was lost in the first six-months. Much later they rectified things with The One S and One X, however that was more like repositioning the brand. It was never going to reverse the sales trend.

2) Bootlicking press.
One of the favourite paranoid fantasies of Sony hardcore. "The press doesn't hate MS as much as me! Digital Foundry said that something about Xbox was good! Mum!" Just watch King Trash videos from now on and stick to the 'Next Gen' thread. You'll be fine.

4) Playstation had better exclusives last gen.
True. However the vast bulk of the best-selling and most popular games are third party. In 2019 only one PS4 exclusive made the top 20. This next-gen Xbox has both the most powerful and cheapest way to play the vast bulk of next-gen games.

5) Internet polls say PS5 is better
I'm not shocked by the quality of your sources.

6) Lies about PS5
More paranoia. I mean you really have to be deluded to think that MS gets an armchair ride in the media.

7) Halo Infinite
The reception for Infinite was feral. It was also hyperbole on a grand scale and driven, at least partly, by Sony fanboys with a hate hard-on.

8) Drooling, bug-eyed hate for MS
Not worth my time.

9) Drooling, bug-eyed hate for Phil Spencer
Not worth my time.

10) MS will shut down Xbox division
Oh Lordy. Certainly not worth my time.

11) Attempt to equate Gamepass/Xcloud to Stadia and PS Now
C'mon now. Not even you buy these comparisons.

12) Third parties won't support Series S.
Still total FUD, no matter how many times you type it, or claim 'important context'. It's just wishful thinking FUD you've dreamt up because Series S makes you a little nervous. Series S support will be mandated.

Even if Xbox sales are exactly the same in this new gen, that's still 50 MILLION UNITS (possibly more, I can't be bothered looking it up). No major game developer in the west is going to turn their back on that.

And we both know that it'll likely be millions more this time around, particularly in the key US and UK markets.

11) It's 10 TF vs 4TF
Yes, and? Series S is designed to play full next-gen games at lower resolutions than the Series X.
Who knows? Ps5 is also lagging behind the Series X in the power stakes, maybe it'll have to do the same thing.

 

[Shmunter]

I want to smash my screen with my keyboard when I read all this ignorant crap about a cheaper, scaled down version of the same fucking hardware designed to run games at 1080p holding back the generation. Total nonsense. You "holding back" believers have no technical understanding of designs. It has the same CPU and scales back on the GPU and expensive design items that enable higher GPU performance and the disk drive. The design trades cost for graphical performance and the games can easily adjust to that trade off by scaling resolution and gfx effects in the games only. If you look at the GPU numbers, people overwhelmingly buy the low-mid end GPUs and play games at lower settings. Why shouldn't console owners have the same choice? If I had nephews instead of nieces I would get them one for X-mas. I am curious to see how the prices play out. I can see MS reducing the price of the XsS but not doing so for the XsX.

Xbox is a platform and the real next gen Xbox is the 30XX series

If Sony put out a similarly gimped system for $200 less, I might buy that over the main system because I don't really need the best graphics when I am just paying for access to their exclusives. I have a launch PS4 and that is fine for the same purpose. It really would depend how close the games were on the high end to PC games. The disc drive does allow saving by purchasing used games which is fine since I just want to play the big titles when I have time and nothing more interesting in my PC and Switch backlog.

What guarantee do you have, textures, assets, effects from XsS will be improved for XsX? Is that stuff automatic or is effort required by the devs to author them?

Is the 1080p vs 4k scale the only thing that matters?

How did the difference materialise between 1.3tf Xbox One and the 6tf Xbox X?

 

[Redlight]

Wouldn't it make more sense to look at the best selling PlayStation games - there are 2 inside the top 10.

My bad, I missed MLB 19: The Show.

My point still stands though. Of the top ten selling Playstation 4 games in 2019, only two exclusives are in the top ten. Those two aren't world-beaters either, they come in at number 8 & 9.

 

[Redlight]

What guarantee do you have, textures, assets, effects from XsS will be improved for XsX? Is that stuff automatic or is effort required by the devs to author them?

Is the 1080p vs 4k scale the only thing that matters?

How did the difference materialise between 1.3tf Xbox One and the 6tf Xbox X?

You're talking as if games will be made for the Series S and scaled up? Why? What evidence do you have for that? It doesn't even make any sense.

Series X will be the target, then the resolution will be scaled down.

 

[Shmunter]

You're talking as if games will be made for the Series S and scaled up? Why? What evidence do you have for that? It doesn't even make any sense.

Series X will be the target, then the resolution will be scaled down.

What if XsS ourself XsX 5 to 1 as an example? Which will be the target then? Do I have evidence it will? No, I’m not omnipotent, but I do know cheaper things of similar type sell in greater quantities.

Does One X outsell One now?

Is Xbox One X the target for Xbox one games? Are all Xbox One X games outfitted with better textures and more complex assets than One? Straightforward question.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

What guarantee do you have, textures, assets, effects from XsS will be improved for XsX? Is that stuff automatic or is effort required by the devs to author them?

Is the 1080p vs 4k scale the only thing that matters?

How did the difference materialise between 1.3tf Xbox One and the 6tf Xbox X?

If there's a better PC version, there will be a better XSX version

 

[GymWolf]

I hope for them that at least ram and cpu are identical in the 2 consolles so they can still squeeze some next gen stuff from this thing.

 

[Shmunter]

If there's a better PC version, there will be a better XSX version

What baseline have Pc Games been created with this gen?

 

[Hezekiah]

My bad, I missed MLB 19: The Show.

My point still stands though. Of the top ten selling Playstation 4 games in 2019, only two exclusives are in the top ten. Those two aren't world-beaters either, they come in at number 8 & 9.

What I would say ask is why did Microsoft spend so much money acquiring studios if exclusives aren't important? For me they have gone for a quantity over quality approach, however the point stands - why not just rely on third-party games and keep shouting about 12 teraflops on one side and $299 on the other?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

What baseline have Pc Games been created with this gen?

Beginning of this gen the low end PC'S, with lower specs than the Xbox One.

Now, probably Xbox One. Do you think the XSS is weaker than the low-end PC specs for games at the moment?

 

[Thirty7ven]

There's no such thing as a free lunch, and you can't eat the cake and have it.

 

[Redlight]

What if XsS ourself XsX 5 to 1 as an example? Which will be the target then? Do I have evidence it will? No, I’m not omnipotent, but I do know cheaper things of similar type sell in greater quantities.

Does One X outsell One now?

Is Xbox One X the target for Xbox one games? Are all Xbox One X games outfitted with better textures and more complex assets than One? Straightforward question.

First party games will clearly target the Series X and scale down.

Third party games are already targeting top end specs and 4k resolutions, they will also scale down.
Series S is built from the ground up to accept next gen games downscaled to 1440/1080.

There is no scenario where it makes sense for third-party games to develop for 1080 and try to scale up. It's always easier to downscale than it is to upscale.

 

[Redlight]

What I would say ask is why did Microsoft spend so much money acquiring studios if exclusives aren't important? For me they have gone for a quantity over quality approach, however the point stands - why not just rely on third-party games and keep shouting about 12 teraflops on one side and $299 on the other?

I'm merely pointing out that exclusives are only a small fraction of games and not the most popular or best selling ones at that.

I could game happily for the next twenty years and not play a Ratchet and Clank or Gears game.

People who buy a lot of games are only playing a small percentage that are exclusives. All else being equal, I think it's smarter to get the machine that plays third-party games the best.

 

[Memorabilia]

They already lost 35-40 million. It's not even a question of fact here... millions of defections occurred over the previous gen. So the question is...... are you going to argue all of those were casuals? Are you going to argue all of those defections were the result of Don Matrick's initial fuck up? Did all those 35-40 million defections occurred all on the first two years (Xbox 360 honeymoon phase) or more like mid-gen when the PS4 took off with exclusive banger after banger? Please.....

The kicker.... we can clearly see where those millions of defections went - almost a straight line crossover.....overwhelming majority to PS4's fat 110 million +. Of Sony's projected 150 million console users for PS5 where do you think the majority of the 30+ million on top of the 110 already on PS4 will come from? Let me give you a hint.......... Xbox's ever shrinking 35-45 million pie.

The Xbox One family had the price, had the power, had the sweet talking B.Stter aka the savior aka Philochio Spencer but it couldn't turn it around. Hec they've had homecooking too....a bootlicking press that barely touches them fuck up after fuck up....very understanding of Miscrosoft's strategies as if they were MS shareholders.... rooting for the underdog. Hec the press pushes Gamepass as if it were their own. How many breaks?

So what is/was it that was missing? What has been the central issue for the brand for years?

Quality content and exclusives that set it apart from PlayStation.

Xbox tried the perception management narrative (never apologized), the price narrative, ultimately the power narrative and nothing......what's left? How can this be argued to be something else? Isn't it that obvious?

Defections will only continue. You've seen the hugely lopsided polls, you know the chatter on social media etc? The hec are you trying to argue? We have insiders and influencers outing themselves as shills pushing lies about PS because the scales are getting out of control.... you think shit ain't looking bad after that shitshow July event? And now this console leaks without a proper event... shit goes from bad to worse...

Shit is so bad gamers had a collective funeral reception for Xbox's flagship, Xbox's baby, the holiday savior....Halo Infinite. Not even Xbox's biggest detractors could have dreamed of that one. The pinnacle of incompetence and ineptitude.

How can you fuck up the exclusive games so bad when in the business of making a games console? After 6 years of wait you think the Xbox hardcore are not tired of the BS and lies.... you think they are all here like the few laggards still fighting the good fight? Nah.... they already know where their money will go next-gen.



They're the most popular that's true. The more platforms, the wider the audience - it's not really rocket science.

How does that in any way, shape or form degrade the impact or importance of exclusives games that differentiate Y product from X product? Basic marketing here...

There is no narrative to upset here... you just think you have a trump card of the old tired "only third parties matter" narrative. Yet the console most dependent on third parties for its success is the lowest selling this generation? Ohh geeee.... work on that one.



The kitchen sink approach... throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. I already sent Nadella my resume... I can do the same as Phil and demand less than a third of his paycheck.

It actually shows the lack of ideas aka beaten down to a pulp. Everything bunched together without paying particular attention at excellence and quality. The good thing about the kitchen sink approach is that it's low effort, and probabilities are good that at least something will stick..... has to stick.... right? right? The alternative is to live in an alternate universe where decisions and time could be rolled back or simply, shutting/selling/spinning off the Xbox division for good.

Not to mention, PS Now exist (Gamepass, XCloud hybrid), Stadia exists, Gamefly exists... and before that Gakai, OnLive etc... Just cause Microsoft is doing it doesn't mean its new or fresh. They're just devoting a lot of their marketing resources and industry clout to push it - unlike other players. A bet...



Weasel words - ok? Maybe it's just Nintendo being living proof for a long timeeeeeeeeee now. Decade + in fact. But you're free to try to characterize it as you wish.

At least you're not disputing that I don't provide that important context when I say those words which is much needed clarification. That is not for you per say to believe but others reading- that's clarified so we good on that. I still maintain the argument. Third parties will eventually drop support for Series S if that console sells like shit. In this scenario not only is the gap in sales huge but the power between the market leader - 10 TF vs. 4 TF will also be huge. To think otherwise about MS strong-arming devs is to overestimate Microsoft's power in the industry. I can see EA going till the end with MS (partners in crime) but others? Good luck. In the probabilities scale there is always a chance for your opinion to play out. To me it just appears unlikely....



From mandating to "no choice" (due to whatever it's that @MrFunSocks is trying to suggest) is a long way. If mandated sure, which only raises the likelihood of PlayStation getting more exclusives by default. If the disparity in the total number of current gen games released for each platform (PS4/Pro vs. Xbox One/X) is anything to go by...... Boy. Add an even worse scenario and we're indeed looking at PS2 days.

WTF?

 

[cHaOs667]

Is Xbox One X the target for Xbox One games? Are all Xbox One X games outfitted with better textures and more complex assets than One? Straightforward question.

If a game has the "Xbox One X Enhanced" badge on it, it has better textures and a higher resolution (plus other enhancements like HDR etc.) than the standard X1. Don't forget that there were three different X1 SKUs this generation and still you were able to play every game on every X1.

And even, the original X1 was the least powerful system for games like Red Dead Redemption 2, the X1X enhanced versions looked absolutely glorious.

Here is a neat little list of X1X enhanced games: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/xbox-one/xbox-one-x-enhanced-list

 

[Shmunter]

Beginning of this gen the low end PC'S, with lower specs than the Xbox One.

Now, probably Xbox One. Do you think the XSS is weaker than the low-end PC specs for games at the moment?

Not at all, but XsS is lower than XsX.

 

[gooner4life_uk]

The Series S is the reason why PS5 will be the best place to play Multiplatform games.

 

[Pagusas]

They already lost 35-40 million. It's not even a question of fact here... millions of defections occurred over the previous gen. So the question is...... are you going to argue all of those were casuals? Are you going to argue all of those defections were the result of Don Matrick's initial fuck up? Did all those 35-40 million defections occurred all on the first two years (Xbox 360 honeymoon phase) or more like mid-gen when the PS4 took off with exclusive banger after banger? Please.....

The kicker.... we can clearly see where those millions of defections went - almost a straight line crossover.....overwhelming majority to PS4's fat 110 million +. Of Sony's projected 150 million console users for PS5 where do you think the majority of the 30+ million on top of the 110 already on PS4 will come from? Let me give you a hint.......... Xbox's ever shrinking 35-45 million pie.

The Xbox One family had the price, had the power, had the sweet talking B.Stter aka the savior aka Philochio Spencer but it couldn't turn it around. Hec they've had homecooking too....a bootlicking press that barely touches them fuck up after fuck up....very understanding of Miscrosoft's strategies as if they were MS shareholders.... rooting for the underdog. Hec the press pushes Gamepass as if it were their own. How many breaks?

So what is/was it that was missing? What has been the central issue for the brand for years?

Quality content and exclusives that set it apart from PlayStation.

Xbox tried the perception management narrative (never apologized), the price narrative, ultimately the power narrative and nothing......what's left? How can this be argued to be something else? Isn't it that obvious?

Defections will only continue. You've seen the hugely lopsided polls, you know the chatter on social media etc? The hec are you trying to argue? We have insiders and influencers outing themselves as shills pushing lies about PS because the scales are getting out of control.... you think shit ain't looking bad after that shitshow July event? And now this console leaks without a proper event... shit goes from bad to worse...

Shit is so bad gamers had a collective funeral reception for Xbox's flagship, Xbox's baby, the holiday savior....Halo Infinite. Not even Xbox's biggest detractors could have dreamed of that one. The pinnacle of incompetence and ineptitude.

How can you fuck up the exclusive games so bad when in the business of making a games console? After 6 years of wait you think the Xbox hardcore are not tired of the BS and lies.... you think they are all here like the few laggards still fighting the good fight? Nah.... they already know where their money will go next-gen.



They're the most popular that's true. The more platforms, the wider the audience - it's not really rocket science.

How does that in any way, shape or form degrade the impact or importance of exclusives games that differentiate Y product from X product? Basic marketing here...

There is no narrative to upset here... you just think you have a trump card of the old tired "only third parties matter" narrative. Yet the console most dependent on third parties for its success is the lowest selling this generation? Ohh geeee.... work on that one.



The kitchen sink approach... throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. I already sent Nadella my resume... I can do the same as Phil and demand less than a third of his paycheck.

It actually shows the lack of ideas aka beaten down to a pulp. Everything bunched together without paying particular attention at excellence and quality. The good thing about the kitchen sink approach is that it's low effort, and probabilities are good that at least something will stick..... has to stick.... right? right? The alternative is to live in an alternate universe where decisions and time could be rolled back or simply, shutting/selling/spinning off the Xbox division for good.

Not to mention, PS Now exist (Gamepass, XCloud hybrid), Stadia exists, Gamefly exists... and before that Gakai, OnLive etc... Just cause Microsoft is doing it doesn't mean its new or fresh. They're just devoting a lot of their marketing resources and industry clout to push it - unlike other players. A bet...



Weasel words - ok? Maybe it's just Nintendo being living proof for a long timeeeeeeeeee now. Decade + in fact. But you're free to try to characterize it as you wish.

At least you're not disputing that I don't provide that important context when I say those words which is much needed clarification. That is not for you per say to believe but others reading- that's clarified so we good on that. I still maintain the argument. Third parties will eventually drop support for Series S if that console sells like shit. In this scenario not only is the gap in sales huge but the power between the market leader - 10 TF vs. 4 TF will also be huge. To think otherwise about MS strong-arming devs is to overestimate Microsoft's power in the industry. I can see EA going till the end with MS (partners in crime) but others? Good luck. In the probabilities scale there is always a chance for your opinion to play out. To me it just appears unlikely....



From mandating to "no choice" (due to whatever it's that @MrFunSocks is trying to suggest) is a long way. If mandated sure, which only raises the likelihood of PlayStation getting more exclusives by default. If the disparity in the total number of current gen games released for each platform (PS4/Pro vs. Xbox One/X) is anything to go by...... Boy. Add an even worse scenario and we're indeed looking at PS2 days.

so much cringe. This feels like the Final Fantasy exclusive rant all over again.

 

[Hezekiah]

I'm merely pointing out that exclusives are only a small fraction of games and not the most popular or best selling ones at that.

I could game happily for the next twenty years and not play a Ratchet and Clank or Gears game.

People who buy a lot of games are only playing a small percentage that are exclusives. All else being equal, I think it's smarter to get the machine that plays third-party games the best.

Exclusives make a small proportion of the total games on a system so it stands to reason that a lot of time is spent on third-party games for many gamers. However PS4 had several exclusives which sold 10m+ and/or are amongst the highest-rated for the system, and that had a big impact and will do so going forward.

In terms of the system that plays third-party games best, that surely renders XSS a distant last, but some people on here think it will do well. The gap between PS5 and XSS is much smaller to the point where I doubt most gamers will be able to tell the difference, and other things like the controller, online network and loading times might actually be more of a key differentiator.

Also if you're really that bothered about playing third-party games at their best, I imagine you'll have a PC. Most casuals simply do not care, and primarily they will look at platform exclusives and what system their friends own.

 

[oxman2k]

If the xbox series s will run games the same as the xbox series x but at a lower resolution with the same frame rate etc,what is the point buying the xbox series x when it will sell much less than both the series s and ps5 . developers will not spend time on the extra power it has especially with multi plat games.

 

[THEAP99]

Yep. It's gonna the top focus and top seller for them. Power matters less now more than ever.

 

[scydrex]

The only thing i could say is that if it had a disc i would consider it for $300. I would pay with $250 with a discount or special for the series S. I hope Sony now announce the price of the PS5 and give all the specs no more hiding.

 

[Hendrick's]

What guarantee do you have, textures, assets, effects from XsS will be improved for XsX? Is that stuff automatic or is effort required by the devs to author them?

Is the 1080p vs 4k scale the only thing that matters?

How did the difference materialise between 1.3tf Xbox One and the 6tf Xbox X?

What if XsS ourself XsX 5 to 1 as an example? Which will be the target then? Do I have evidence it will? No, I’m not omnipotent, but I do know cheaper things of similar type sell in greater quantities.

Does One X outsell One now?

Is Xbox One X the target for Xbox one games? Are all Xbox One X games outfitted with better textures and more complex assets than One? Straightforward question.

Not at all, but XsS is lower than XsX.

 

[Shmunter]

Yes I am concerned for next gen. You equating it with trolling is your fanboying good looks.

 

[Three]

XsX classic bait and switch..

Xbox most powerful, only $299.

Will be interesting if there are instances of games on PS5 having better assets/effects with XsX ending up with just a res bump from XsS complete with the lower assets/effects.

This would likely not happen. Luckily for MS the PS5 exists, if it didn't then that would have been exactly what the XSX would get with the long term install base of the XSX.

 

[Shmunter]

This would likely not happen. Luckily for MS the PS5 exists, if it didn't then that would have been exactly what the XSX would get with the long term install base of the XSX.

Absolutely, I agree a large PS5 install base will help lift the baseline. A large XsS install base will work against some efforts, but hopefully relegated to the back seat for the most part.

 

[Velius]

Has anyone noticed that whenever someone says "Let's be clear" it's almost always followed up by something fucking retarded?

 

[Dunnas]

Has anyone noticed that whenever someone says "Let's be clear" it's almost always followed up by something fucking retarded?

Well, let’s be clear. 90% of things said on this forum are then followed by something fucking retarded.

 

[Hendrick's]

Yes I am concerned for next gen. You equating it with trolling is your fanboying good looks.

 

[Superkamikaze]

Series S and the ever expanding library in GamePass, this is a no joke combination. MS may be able to seriously put a dent in console market this gen, and make up some lost ground from last gen.

 

[Redlight]

Exclusives make a small proportion of the total games on a system so it stands to reason that a lot of time is spent on third-party games for many gamers. However PS4 had several exclusives which sold 10m+ and/or are amongst the highest-rated for the system, and that had a big impact and will do so going forward.

In terms of the system that plays third-party games best, that surely renders XSS a distant last, but some people on here think it will do well. The gap between PS5 and XSS is much smaller to the point where I doubt most gamers will be able to tell the difference, and other things like the controller, online network and loading times might actually be more of a key differentiator.

Also if you're really that bothered about playing third-party games at their best, I imagine you'll have a PC. Most casuals simply do not care, and primarily they will look at platform exclusives and what system their friends own.

I game on consoles exclusively, the 'you should play on PC snort, snort' argument is lost on me.

I want to play console games where most console games will play best. That is likely to be Series X if resolution is a big thing for you.

If resolution isn't a deal breaker, then It's possible that Series S will play them better, especially if PS5 is chasing high resolutions to match Series X.

I note in your argument that a gap in power only matters if it's an Xbox. OK, thanks.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Not at all, but XsS is lower than XsX.

Yeah, but they are developing for PC anyway, so low end PC'S would already be holding them back

 

[Shmunter]

Yeah, but they are developing for PC anyway, so low end PC'S would already be holding them back

Consoles mark the paradigm shift to a new generational benchmark for game design - also forcing uplift in pc spec requirements. SSD effect is still a question however.

Look, this is the way I see it; a title like Call Of Duty. Needs to be 60FPS. The performance profile is a certainty on XsS. This will dictate the look of the game on the 4tf. Personally would rather a more dense & detailed next gen environment at 1440p on XsX 12tf - reconstructed to 4k.

The freedom for an XsX target with the added density instead of a simple resolution increase is no longer a feasible design decision. Devs won’t bother, and creating 2 different looking games within the same gen isn’t going to happen either.

I’m out of material to explain the potential pitfalls and shortcomings of one powerful target vs achieving scalability between 2 targets with sizeable GPU power differential.

Take it or leave it, we will never know what could have been anyway now.

 

[Racer!]

Would a 349$ PS5 Digital edition be the nail in the coffin for Microsoft?

Hmmm

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Consoles mark the paradigm shift to a new generational benchmark for game design - also forcing uplift in pc spec requirements. SSD effect is still a question however.

Look, this is the way I see it; a title like Call Of Duty. Needs to be 60FPS. The performance profile is a certainty on XsS. This will dictate the look of the game on the 4tf. Personally would rather a more dense & detailed next gen environment at 1440p on XsX 12tf - reconstructed to 4k.

The freedom for an XsX target with the added density instead of a simple resolution increase is no longer a feasible design decision. Devs won’t bother, and creating 2 different looking games within the same gen isn’t going to happen either.

I’m out of material to explain the potential pitfalls and shortcomings of one powerful target vs achieving scalability between 2 targets with sizeable GPU power differential.

Take it or leave it, we will never know what could have been anyway now.

We can always compare with first party Sony games of course to see what could've been.

 

[Larogue]

edit: nevermind

 

[Hezekiah]

I game on consoles exclusively, the 'you should play on PC snort, snort' argument is lost on me.

I want to play console games where most console games will play best. That is likely to be Series X if resolution is a big thing for you.

If resolution isn't a deal breaker, then It's possible that Series S will play them better, especially if PS5 is chasing high resolutions to match Series X.

I note in your argument that a gap in power only matters if it's an Xbox. OK, thanks.

Resolution on third-party games will almost certainly be the same on PS5 and XSX so that's an odd argument.

And I'm pretty sure XSS won't be playing anything better with the sheer lack of RAM along with one-third GPU power. All hopeful speculation I feel.

 

[oagboghi2]

I was just going to post something about that.

Funny seeing people that were excited for 12TF and making fun of Sony at 10TF are all of a sudden huge fans of a 4TF console. Don't get me wrong. Great price but it is still a lower end console and will perform like one when compared to the upper tier consoles.

It's amazing and hilarious. 9 months of "teraflops, teraflops, teraflops" when apparently what xbox gamers really wanted to do was barely upgrade their xbox one X, and buy a subscription service.

It just goes to show how full of shit xbots are. Anything MS announce is amazing, innovative, and the future of gaming.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I mean, it IS really had to argue with that price point and it's technical capabilities. I think it's awesome that consumers have a choice. Because some players may not really care about 4K, so giving them the option to partake in 2K instead feels great. Especially for those that don't even have a 4K display or didn't care to.

 

[Soodanim]

I like the idea of released both power levels from day 1. It allows you to capture those who know it's coming and would have otherwise waited, thus bringing more money in. I'm still waiting for a Switch Pro, and that's money they've lost out on because I'll be annoyed if I spend the money only to find out it's superseded.

 

[magaman]

You're talking as if games will be made for the Series S and scaled up? Why? What evidence do you have for that? It doesn't even make any sense.

Series X will be the target, then the resolution will be scaled down.

You literally don't know that and you have no evidence for your argument either. Neither side is right here as we don't know.

From a tech perspective, I'll remind you that you do have to build for the lowest common denominator. For example, X360 could not build games that relied solely on a hard drive because not every X360 came with a hard drive. You can't just "build the best version and scale it down." That's asking for huge hurdles (and, at times, full-on porting projects).

The easier way is to build the base with the minimum tech budget, and then scale up by enabling/scaling certain features.

 

[Neo_game]

If you buy your game digitally then yes, if you download it on an S it will likely be smaller in size.

I do not think devs will bother with it. Moreover we do not how they are going to scale, may be the difference will only be resolution or RT or fps but have same texture quality ?

 

[intbal]

The choice, as I understand it...

Your existing game library that you can play if you purchase an Xbox Series X:

Your exisiting game library that you can play if you purchase an Xbox Series S:

(Yeah, it's just figurative. And yes, it's for people who are almost exclusively physical media gamers. And yes, I totally stole the images from Google Image search. What's your point?)

 

[MarkMe2525]

OP using a lot of words to shine up a turd. The only thing this WILL BE is a complete disaster on the financial front and the marketing front.

This appeals to one group of people, poor people. Poor people generally don't buy new video games, who is Microsoft marketing to?

Honestly, that's what a game console has been historically. A cheap singularly focused piece of hardware that runs video games. That's why the idea of a game console came into existence, and that's why they continue to exist. That's why most hardware sales happen when the prices are reduced. It seems to me that Microsoft learned their lesson from 2013 when they blew their load and offered a box that started at half a grand.

We are lucky that there are higher priced and more powerful options that are available for the hardcore. When I was growing up, you got what whatever Nintendo or Sega built and that was that.

 

[cryogenic7]

First party games will clearly target the Series X and scale down.

Third party games are already targeting top end specs and 4k resolutions, they will also scale down.
Series S is built from the ground up to accept next gen games downscaled to 1440/1080.

There is no scenario where it makes sense for third-party games to develop for 1080 and try to scale up. It's always easier to downscale than it is to upscale.

No, it's easier to upscale.

 

[Knitted Knight]

1) Xbox One didn't sell very well compared to Playstation 4.
True. The messaging at launch was confused and contradictory. They packed in a peripheral that a lot of people didn't want. They were less powerful and more expensive. That's where the damage was done. Forget the first two years, the war was lost in the first six-months. Much later they rectified things with The One S and One X, however that was more like repositioning the brand. It was never going to reverse the sales trend.

This is a typical Xbox gamer response trying to “smartly” shy away from the issue at heart aka “It was all Don Matrick’s fault” narrative. We’ve seen this response for years now. But it’s just another false premise with half truths.

The PS3 released at $499, and $599, and 1 year later vs. the Xbox 360 at $299, $399, 1 year earlier. The PS3 had an archaic online infrastructure (at the start), when the boom in gaming was social online multiplayer pioneered by MS with Xbox Live etc. Yet somehow, someway Sony was able to turn the sales war around for the PS3 (mid-gen to tail end of the gen) not just because (to use your phrase), it “repositioned” the brand with reasonable pricing, services and policies but also because it had big generation defining exclusive games up until the very end while MS was busy toying with Kinect and having exclusive droughts.

One company turned it around on the strength of its software, another did not. It really can’t get any more simple that – perfect contrast of strategies. So to say in absolute that it was never going to reverse the sales trend is a lot of B.S. There is no guarantee of sales reversal if it had done what Sony did but in the absence of it it's a foregone conclusion. Nintendo literally lives off the strength of its first party.

Deep down you know all of this….the inconvenient truths hard to digest. I don’t know why you keep pretending putting this façade. Well I do but that’s besides the point I guess.

2) Bootlicking press.
One of the favourite paranoid fantasies of Sony hardcore. "The press doesn't hate MS as much as me! Digital Foundry said that something about Xbox was good! Mum!" Just watch King Trash videos from now on and stick to the 'Next Gen' thread. You'll be fine.

Kingthrash living rent free I see. Your reactions to him have been like a vampire exposed to holy water. Funny indeed.

I like to free roam. You know how it’s. Thanks but no thanks.

4) Playstation had better exclusives last gen.
True. However the vast bulk of the best-selling and most popular games are third party. In 2019 only one PS4 exclusive made the top 20. This next-gen Xbox has both the most powerful and cheapest way to play the vast bulk of next-gen games.

Again how does that negate the importance of having big exclusive games? The very exclusives gamers really want (system sellers)? In short; exclusives that differentiate your product from the competition in a meaningful way?

If I remember correctly you were the one that went off on a tangent with the “third party only matters” narrative. I didn’t invite you to it…. You invited yourself to your own nonsense and tried to downplay exclusives with low quality bait.

Now you’re like a broken record retyping the canned response a million times over while not answering the relevant question. Try again one more time.

Moreover the PS5 will have the best third party support of any console, just like the PS4 (sheer number of third party titles) + the exclusive differentiators + VR games. It’s reasonable to say the PS5 will cast a much wider net, with a stronger line too.

5) Internet polls say PS5 is better
I'm not shocked by the quality of your sources.

Polls everywhere show there is more interest in PS5 by a significant margin. And these polls are done often. Somehow all of them got it wrong? You’re pressing hard now with the false characterizations of the statements. There are such things as mood, trends etc…

But lets engage in common sense comprehension for a second here since you’re dropping low hanging fruits for me…

Is it not reasonable to say that in the eyes of the “many”(majority) the PS5 is the better product for them?

6) Lies about PS5
More paranoia. I mean you really have to be deluded to think that MS gets an armchair ride in the media.

Considering the many fucks up over a 6 year period; they do. Mind you it’s not the press job to prosecute MS on a bench but the shit that flies without a beep is something to behold at times + the free verbatim marketing. I’ve said before MS would be doing something wrong if it didn’t have homecooking in the NA market.... just like the Japanese companies have homecooking in the Asian/Japanese markets. So it’s a given. I’m just saying it exists. I’m not blind to it, nor chose to be blind to it like other folks.

7) Halo Infinite
The reception for Infinite was feral. It was also hyperbole on a grand scale and driven, at least partly, by Sony fanboys with a hate hard-on.

Failing to meet expectations after hyping something up to the moon? Living in a competitive business environment? How is it supposed to work?

The proof is in the pudding. Game got delayed, devs admitted that shit is not right, new leads got brought on board etc. The tough decision to either crater the Halo franchise forever or delay the game and release the Xbox Series Family of consoles without a big AAA first party exclusive was made. Consensus seems to be in agreement - "for the better of a shit situation all around".

Considering your tone however why do I get the impression you would be one of those diehards who would be shilling and damage controlling for that garbage if the plan to release the game this holiday was still on? Katros voice: "Don't be sorry, Be Better!"

9) Drooling, bug-eyed hate for Phil Spencer
Not worth my time.

He’s a bullshitter, and lier. Usual for a salesman, which he is. What’s wrong with pointing out the obvious. He ain’t the "gamer" savior – that much is abundantly clear by now.

10) MS will shut down Xbox division

Considered several times. Am I wrong? Failure to become the dominant player can only be tolerated for so long. There is a long list of corpses in MS closet outside of Windows OS, Office, and the Cloud. Who's left?

11) Attempt to equate Gamepass/Xcloud to Stadia and PS Now
C'mon now. Not even you buy these comparisons.

I do. The differences are really minor. Well except PS Now has a bigger library. Gamepass has the marketing, the limited time pricing offers, and “Xbox exclusives Day and Date”. The underlying business model is the same however. Digital rental service with a library of games to chose from.

12) Third parties won't support Series S.

You have to deal with people having different opinions than yours on the matter. It’s what it’s, no matter how much you complain about it and the adjectives you throw at it. Under a low sales regime it's likely, to me, that the Xbox Series S will lose third party support. Now go call it FUD one more time if it makes you feel better.

11) It's 10 TF vs 4TF
Yes, and? Series S is designed to play full next-gen games at lower resolutions than the Series X.
Who knows? Ps5 is also lagging behind the Series X in the power stakes, maybe it'll have to do the same thing.

10 -4 = 6. 12-10 = 2. And that’s obviously the abstract of it. It's obviously more complicated than that - as has been discussed already in this thread. I do love reading the nonsense about how easy it’s to downscale. It's either a downscale or upscale. And no dev likes to do either if they can help it... even if it has gotten "easier".

A Multiplayer Designer
@infinityward (aka COD dev).

https://twitter.com/DavidMickner

The truth shall set us free.

 

[Breakage]

I don't think the Series S is gonna do as well as Microsoft expects it will. Dumping the optical drive is a mistake. They really should have kept it.

 

[Kingthrash]

I'm going to try and distill this diatribe down into it's bones and take it point by point.

1) Xbox One didn't sell very well compared to Playstation 4.
True. The messaging at launch was confused and contradictory. They packed in a peripheral that a lot of people didn't want. They were less powerful and more expensive. That's where the damage was done. Forget the first two years, the war was lost in the first six-months. Much later they rectified things with The One S and One X, however that was more like repositioning the brand. It was never going to reverse the sales trend.

2) Bootlicking press.
One of the favourite paranoid fantasies of Sony hardcore. "The press doesn't hate MS as much as me! Digital Foundry said that something about Xbox was good! Mum!" Just watch King Trash videos from now on and stick to the 'Next Gen' thread. You'll be fine.

4) Playstation had better exclusives last gen.
True. However the vast bulk of the best-selling and most popular games are third party. In 2019 only one PS4 exclusive made the top 20. This next-gen Xbox has both the most powerful and cheapest way to play the vast bulk of next-gen games.

5) Internet polls say PS5 is better
I'm not shocked by the quality of your sources.

6) Lies about PS5
More paranoia. I mean you really have to be deluded to think that MS gets an armchair ride in the media.

7) Halo Infinite
The reception for Infinite was feral. It was also hyperbole on a grand scale and driven, at least partly, by Sony fanboys with a hate hard-on.

8) Drooling, bug-eyed hate for MS
Not worth my time.

9) Drooling, bug-eyed hate for Phil Spencer
Not worth my time.

10) MS will shut down Xbox division
Oh Lordy. Certainly not worth my time.

11) Attempt to equate Gamepass/Xcloud to Stadia and PS Now
C'mon now. Not even you buy these comparisons.

12) Third parties won't support Series S.
Still total FUD, no matter how many times you type it, or claim 'important context'. It's just wishful thinking FUD you've dreamt up because Series S makes you a little nervous. Series S support will be mandated.

Even if Xbox sales are exactly the same in this new gen, that's still 50 MILLION UNITS (possibly more, I can't be bothered looking it up). No major game developer in the west is going to turn their back on that.

And we both know that it'll likely be millions more this time around, particularly in the key US and UK markets.

11) It's 10 TF vs 4TF
Yes, and? Series S is designed to play full next-gen games at lower resolutions than the Series X.
Who knows? Ps5 is also lagging behind the Series X in the power stakes, maybe it'll have to do the same thing.

Why is my name in this comment?
What you need?

 

[cryptoadam]

Series S is very Nintendo like. Customized it to fit a price point and casing while saying fuck it to your number crunching or latest resolution tech.

But they still have the Series X to fall back on and play the power card if need be.