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[Neuromancer]

SERIOUSLY! Please be $299 or less!

I know Sony is considering this a new gaming platform, but it can't be priced the same as the console it runs off. There's just no way. I am betting $250 for the headset and $300 for the headset and camera, maybe one Move thrown in.

 

[GeoramA]

Really impressed by all the support, with PSX having the most interesting stuff yet. And the impressions from people there makes it seem like Sony nailed it.

They just need to nail the price now.

 

[cyberheater]

Two interesting reddit posts from user yantraVR who is member of dev team Innervison Games who made early Oculus game Ethereon [adventure game]:


yantraVR: "PSVR is extremely close to being on par with Vive and the Rift w/ a gtx970 based on the tests I've done. The team from Epic (Nick & Tom) have also stated the same in at least one of their VR Twitch streams. If your app runs at 90Hz on a PC with a gtx970 then you should be very close to 60 on the ps4. And with the 120Hz reprojection applied it's glassy smooth."

penprog: "Do you know how they do it? They have to sacrifice something."

yantraVR: "Yes, I do! In brief, the PSVR only requires about 1/4th of the render target size that the Vive requires. This has a lot to do with the display they are using that can run a 60Hz game at 120Hz (in addition to the 90Hz mode). So comparing the PSVR at 60Hz>120Hz to the Vive at 90Hz:

Vive = 457 million pixels/sec (1512x1680x2x90)
PSVR = ~100 million (1920x1080x60 - ~20%*)

*The ~20% is accounting for some additional (classified) techniques that further reduce the render target size.

There are other things to consider as well, if you want to go further. For example, the PS4 has hardly any driver overhead compared to Windows so it's a fully dedicated gaming system that can focus purely on performance. For example, the draw calls on the PS4 are faster than with dx11 which is something that a lot of people don't realize.

They have also started beefing up their small conversion box unit with processing power to help do some heavy lifting."

http://vrfocus.com/archives/26207/y...close-to-being-on-par-with-vive-and-the-rift/
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3vnce8/51_titles_announced_for_playstation_vr_for_now/


Here is one of talks from Epic games about porting Showdown VR demo to Morpheus [there was another one where they talked more in-depth about it]:
http://www.twitch.tv/unrealengine/v/7616153?t=21m52s


Also, Vive does not have 1512x1680-per-eye screens, but it seems that it requrires devs to hit that render target.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=183100265#post183100265

Very interesting that the devs perceived the experience of PSVR to be almost on par with Vive and Rift at a quarter of the pixels cost.
It's a shame that the Vive and Rift require so much horse power for little perceived increase in the user experience.
It feels like the PC side is wasting a large rendering performance for a small gain at the user end.

 

[RefigeKru]

Distance!!!

I'm down.

 

[Breakbeat]

It feels like the PC side is wasting a large rendering performance for a small gain at the user end.

That's pretty much my attitude towards the high-end PC gaming market in general, so it's not surprising.

 

[redhood56]

Distance looks really cool. I'm also glad Classroom Aquatics got confirmed that game sounds really interesting. But the obvious killer app is 100ft robot golf.

 

[Linkified]

Can I ask you guys a quick question, im totally worried that as PS VR requires the camera the space in my room is quite limited from desk to bed would the camera be able to recognise the headset within a 1 metre square area with me standing in the centre. This is with a TV on the edge of the 1 metre square area with camera placed in the same area? Or is this basically impossible.

 

[cyberheater]

Can I ask you guys a quick question, im totally worried that as PS VR requires the camera the space in my room is quite limited from desk to bed would the camera be able to recognise the headset within a 1 metre square area with me standing in the centre. This is with a TV on the edge of the 1 metre square area with camera placed in the same area? Or is this basically impossible.

The camera has a 30cm focus distance so you should be good to go.

 

[serversurfer]

Can I ask you guys a quick question, im totally worried that as PS VR requires the camera the space in my room is quite limited from desk to bed would the camera be able to recognise the headset within a 1 metre square area with me standing in the centre. This is with a TV on the edge of the 1 metre square area with camera placed in the same area? Or is this basically impossible.

So, you're only 0.5m from the display, and you can't even extend your elbows? =/

That seems like a pretty tiny box. The camera can focus pretty closely, but you also need to consider the field of view. Even if the camera could recognize you, you'd still need some distance between you and the camera so you weren't constantly moving out of view (assuming that's even possible in your confined space).

 

[Linkified]

So, you're only 0.5m from the display, and you can't even extend your elbows? =/

That seems like a pretty tiny box. The camera can focus pretty closely, but you also need to consider the field of view. Even if the camera could recognize you, you'd still need some distance between you and the camera so you weren't constantly moving out of view (assuming that's even possible in your confined space).

The reason I said 1m square is basically that a wardrobe juts out at the point which would interfere with fov for the camera. It's not like I can't move my elbows rather that my bedroom has loads of fitted furniture which can't be moved.

I'm not moving my ps4 down to the living room to play. Sony should of done some Dev pre-requisites. I.e. All software must be played seated.

 

[serversurfer]

The reason I said 1m square is basically that a wardrobe juts out at the point which would interfere with fov for the camera. It's not like I can't move my elbows rather that my bedroom has loads of fitted furniture which can't be moved.

Ah. Any chance you can post a Camera-eye view of your space, preferably with someone in the command seat? That'd give us a better idea of what you're working with.

I'm not moving my ps4 down to the living room to play. Sony should of done some Dev pre-requisites. I.e. All software must be played seated.

Or, you could just buy the seated games, instead of taking the standing games away from everyone… =/

 

[mrklaw]

Brad from Giant Bomb has talked on the last Bombcast about his playtrough of 2 demos of Golem.

Most important notes:
- He was blown away by the visuals PS4 is rendering [game is UE4 PSVR exclusive]
- He was happy that entire game is played from sitting position, same position as disabled kid that is controlling the golems [which can be from doll sized to large giants].
- This was the first VR game where he experienced great FPS controls that were non-teleport based. User simply nods his head forwards and backwards to walk [or slightly shift entire upped body forwards/back], and tilts head to strafe! He sad that after few moments of practice, he managed to circle strafe around a object without an issue.

Sounds good. I was wondering about locomotion methods that use some physical input to help fool the brain to expect movement. Even if you aren't moving your legs, tilting sounds like it works ok in this game.

 

[DieH@rd]

Lots of DriveClub VR footage in the background [looks like demo station had DS4]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_Sd3qGXbDA

 

[mrdeiz]

How about some nasty stuff based on http://SexLikeReal.com plot?

 

[Sidewinder]

Golem sounds good, man I can't wait to finally dive into VR and never leave

Give me a date and a price Sony, please?

 

[Linkified]

Ah. Any chance you can post a Camera-eye view of your space, preferably with someone in the command seat? That'd give us a better idea of what you're working with.


Or, you could just buy the seated games, instead of taking the standing games away from everyone… =/

When you mean camera-eye, you mean from the Playstation camera? If so don't have one.

 

[serversurfer]

When you mean camera-eye, you mean from the Playstation camera? If so don't have one.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Honestly, you'd have a better idea of how much your movement would be restricted than any of us. Would it even be able to see your lap, like if you're holding a DS4? If so, I'd imagine you could play a fair bit of stuff, especially if the game in question doesn't track the movement of the DS4 for anything.

So, it'll be less than ideal, but I suspect that doesn't apply solely to VR anyway. lol

Edit: Is there anyway to put the camera behind the display, and still have a clear view of you? The further the camera is from you, the better, because of the field of view, but obviously you don't want that "expanded" view obstructed by the back of the TV or something.

 

[Shin-Ra]

How about some nasty stuff based on SPAM plot?

We got an undercover spammer here.

 

[Raven Prime]

Not sure if we'll ever be able to play 'Mighty Morphenaut', but I still think this belongs here and it's interesting to see how Sony is even working together with NASA.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/12/14/nasa-s-using-playstation-vr-to-train-its-space-robots/

 

[ArtHands]

I have the opportunity to again test out some more PS VR demo( tried vr playroom and deep down)

The black box unit that's processing the PS VR stuffs, its slightly bigger than a quarter the size of a PS4.

And wow, you can stand up in the london heist car chase demo! Your avatar simply goes through the car roof lol

Also tried 2 demos in vr playroom. nothing much to say about it. I find myself leaning near those robot things to admire the amazing details.

Deep down isnt really immersive due to a lack of an avatar body, but its pretty intense.

One thing that i find a little annoying is that there is a focal angle kind of thing. Kind of like viewing stereoscopic content, it can get blurry easily so you have to really adjust and shift the headset before starting the experience.

 

[DieH@rd]

If I remember correctly, early Deep demo had character body rendered. People commented in YT videos how character in game would bend their knees if user in real life lowered their head enough. Maybe they removed it because it caused brain freezes caused by lack of 1:1 body movement.

 

[mckmas8808]

I have the opportunity to again test out some more PS VR demo( tried vr playroom and deep down)

The black box unit that's processing the PS VR stuffs, its slightly bigger than a quarter the size of a PS4.

And wow, you can stand up in the london heist car chase demo! Your avatar simply goes through the car roof lol

Also tried 2 demos in vr playroom. nothing much to say about it. I find myself leaning near those robot things to admire the amazing details.

Deep down isnt really immersive due to a lack of an avatar body, but its pretty intense.

One thing that i find a little annoying is that there is a focal angle kind of thing. Kind of like viewing stereoscopic content, it can get blurry easily so you have to really adjust and shift the headset before starting the experience.

WOW! What is this box doing?

 

[Bradach]

While I'm waiting for PSVR I bought Google cardboard for my iPhone. It cost me €5. It'll be interesting to see how well it works!
I have a PS4 camera and two moves and a Nav controller ready and waiting for my PSVR next year. Can't wait!

 

[mrklaw]

WOW! What is this box doing?

- 3D audio processing to convert into binaural.
- Converting the stereo fisheye image into a single, undistorted image to send out to the TV so other people can see what you're seeing but more clearly.
- passing along the second screen image to the TV in cases where you have an asymmetric game (eg that monster game Sony have been demoing where the VR wearer is the monster,but other players are attacking him on the main TV)

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Hey Guys, I'm back!

Update:

Was finally able to catch up to all the announcements and update the thread, so here it is...

The Modern Zombie Taxi Co. (Trailer)

100ft Robot Golf (Trailer)

Ace Combat 7 (Trailer)

Eagle Flight (Trailer)

Golem (Trailer)

Psychonauts: In The Rhombus Of Ruin (Image)

Classroom Aquatic (Trailer)

Distance (Trailer)

Eclipse (Image)

Job Simulator (Trailer)

Vector 36 (Trailer)


Tell me if I missed something guys

 

[serversurfer]

Hey, welcome back! Was your trip shorter than you'd planned, or do you just have temporary 'net access?

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Hey, welcome back! Was your trip shorter than you'd planned, or do you just have temporary 'net access?

I have temporary net access, managed to see PSX conference just now, also good November NPD thread. Glad I didn't miss much but I'll have to get back to work soon so decided to update the thread at least. Thanks for keeping the thread alive guys. I won't be able to write as much but I'll try to keep you guys posted.

 

[DieH@rd]

Welcome back.

 

[Blanquito]

If I remember correctly, early Deep demo had character body rendered. People commented in YT videos how character in game would bend their knees if user in real life lowered their head enough. Maybe they removed it because it caused brain freezes caused by lack of 1:1 body movement.

I'm a little late, but from this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1108259

Talks about how in the first "Deep" demo (with the shark cage), there was an avatar in-game that mimicked your moves; you bent down and it bent with you.

Then they created a different version of the demo that had jellyfish all around the person, and having the avatar in the game made it difficult to see everything and was causing issues with being able to see everywhere, so the temporarily removed it from the demo.

And no one who played the demo noticed or cared that the avatar was missing, even those that had played the previous version with the avatar.

What we learned from that was that immersion comes from continuity, not from complexity, and not really from realism.

The second thing we learned was that the subconscious is very unforgiving; so a small number of systems behaving consistently all the time can fool the subconscious into believing this is real but the tiniest amount of inconsistent behavior risks wasting the potential value of that complicated setup.

Starts around 10:50

 

[bestfieldscup]

with Gran Turismo being announced for PSVR, does that mean the game will lack good realistic graphics? I heard that the driveclub VR doesn't look great and it'd suck for the game to be downgraded

 

[serversurfer]

with Gran Turismo being announced for PSVR, does that mean the game will lack good realistic graphics? I heard that the drive club VR doesn't look great and it'd suck for the game to be downgraded

They'll probably have a special VR mode, which is basically the same game, but with expensive visual effects disabled to maintain desired frame rates.

So GT will be a great looking TV game as always, and it'll be a great looking VR game, but no, the VR mode won't look quite as nice the TV mode does. (Could potentially be at much higher frame rates though. There's really nothing stopping them from doing native 120 fps in VR, if they simply simplify the graphics enough to enable it.)

 

[Sangetsu-II]

with Gran Turismo being announced for PSVR, does that mean the game will lack good realistic graphics? I heard that the driveclub VR doesn't look great and it'd suck for the game to be downgraded

Depends on what you call lacking realistic graphics? If you are in VR wouldn't you be more immersed in the game therefore making the game more realistic? Just my two cents when people judge downgraded graphics against realistic immersion.

 

[serversurfer]

Depends on what you call lacking realistic graphics? If you are in VR wouldn't you be more immersed in the game therefore making the game more realistic? Just my two cents when people judge downgraded graphics against realistic immersion.

Agreed. The sense that you're surrounded by physical objects is far more relevant to immersion than how "cartoony" the graphics actually are. In the past, devs have been focused on making us think something looks real. Now, everything is going to feel real, no matter what it looks like. So I say that if sacrificing the look improves the feel, then go for it.

 

[Raven Prime]

They'll probably have a special VR mode, which is basically the same game, but with expensive visual effects disabled to maintain desired frame rates.

So GT will be a great looking TV game as always, and it'll be a great looking VR game, but no, the VR mode won't look quite as nice the TV mode does. (Could potentially be at much higher frame rates though. There's really nothing stopping them from doing native 120 fps in VR, if they simply simplify the graphics enough to enable it.)

Wouldn't 90fps be good enough? I imagine they don't want to sacrifice too much to ensure a satisfying level of low persistence. Do you think it would be worth it to go all the way to a native 120fps?

 

[Neuromancer]

with Gran Turismo being announced for PSVR, does that mean the game will lack good realistic graphics? I heard that the driveclub VR doesn't look great and it'd suck for the game to be downgraded

Interesting. I heard Driveclub VR looked fantastic.

 

[whitehawk]

Amazing graphics aren't needed (but helpful) for immersion. I tried the soccer head butt game on PSVR. Visuals aren't impressive, but it still felt like I was standing in a soccer field.

I'm sure GT Spot will be great in VR.

 

[serversurfer]

Wouldn't 90fps be good enough? I imagine they don't want to sacrifice too much to ensure a satisfying level of low persistence. Do you think it would be worth it to go all the way to a native 120fps?

Could be. Sounds like faster is better, at least at this early stage of the game. Sony recommend that devs try to hit "at least" 90 fps when designing for VR. Really, depending on how scalable their engine is, they could offer modes for 60, 90, or 120 fps, and let the user choose what they like best.

Actually, that would give them tons of analytics on who prefers what and when, so that's probably not a bad idea, especially for early titles. Not very consoley, but I don't think a three-position slider that defaults to "balanced" would confuse folks excessively.

 

[DieH@rd]

with Gran Turismo being announced for PSVR, does that mean the game will lack good realistic graphics? I heard that the driveclub VR doesn't look great and it'd suck for the game to be downgraded

If the game is already targeted to work at 1080p60fps, that mens there will be just a few cuts [nothing that will impact "realistic" side of rendering, just shorter LOD distances, less particles, little rougher shadows, etc] made to enable switch from 2D to 3D rendering. Game will still look great [same goes for AC7 and pCARS].

 

[Bradach]

My Google Cardboard arrived. It's not good VR at all. I tried loads of apps, games and experiences. The image quality is very poor and the frame rate is choppy. Not sure why I expected more but I was quite disappointed.

Anyway, back on topic whats your thoughts on pricing now that Occulus is $600 / €700? I'm thinking that it couldn't be less than €400

 

[DieH@rd]

My Google Cardboard arrived. It's not good VR at all. I tried loads of apps, games and experiences. The image quality is very poor and the frame rate is choppy. Not sure why I expected more but I was quite disappointed.

Cardboard is a lowest entry point to VR, its quality depents a lot on a phone you have [and even the best ones are below what GearVR offers].

Anyway, back on topic whats your thoughts on pricing now that Occulus is $600 / €700? I'm thinking that it couldn't be less than €400

That is not a topic of this thread. Here we talk about software titles, not hardware price.

 

[Bradach]

That is not a topic of this thread. Here we talk about software titles, not hardware price.

Apologies for interrupting your discussion.

 

[DieH@rd]

New music game got announced for all three big VR systems, The Music Room from Melbourne-based Chroma Coda.

http://vrfocus.com/archives/27429/t...to-play-vr-instruments-on-rift-vive-and-psvr/

 

[Marvel]

Huh, psvr for it is. Didn't know there would be so many games I'd like to play.

 

[ScribbleD]

Looking forward especially to horror games. There's one on that list that I had no idea was getting VR support: Distance. If you haven't checked out Distance, you're in for a treat. It's a very atmospheric racing game that borders on survival horror in its eeriness sometimes, and it's also got a lot of really interesting mechanics.

 

[Neuromancer]

New music game got announced for all three big VR systems, The Music Room from Melbourne-based Chroma Coda.

http://vrfocus.com/archives/27429/t...to-play-vr-instruments-on-rift-vive-and-psvr/

Sounds neat, thanks.

 

[2blackcats]

Do we know if any existing games will have VR modes added to the? Defence grid 2 on PC is getting VR support. I reckon any top down game is going to look awesome. Like table top games.

I'd happily murder all of you for resogun VR.

 

[Memory]

Do we know if any existing games will have VR modes added to the? Defence grid 2 on PC is getting VR support. I reckon any top down game is going to look awesome. Like table top games.

I'd happily murder all of you for resogun VR.

I'm almost certain we will see a few VR remakes/updates to existing games. It's an easy way for devs to resell a game, enter and gauge the VR market at the same time. I'm some of the titles in the op are already existing games so I'm sure we will send others jump on the band wagon once it gets closer to release or at least once it starts to get high adoption.

 

[Neuromancer]

Do we know if any existing games will have VR modes added to the? Defence grid 2 on PC is getting VR support. I reckon any top down game is going to look awesome. Like table top games.

I'd happily murder all of you for resogun VR.

Project CARS
Volume
Futuridium
DriveClub

There are probably others.

 

[N30RYU]

Got 400€ sitting here inside a book waiting for it's release day.
I don't think it will be much more expensive than that... but is a shame I sold months ago the two move controllers I had... so I'll wait to see if they make a pack with the VR+2 moves or just buy them again used.


Soma and Vanishing of Ethan Carter are getting VR support. Not sure if on PC only or also on PSVR

 

[DieH@rd]

Soma and Vanishing of Ethan Carter are getting VR support. Not sure if on PC only or also on PSVR

Any link for that Soma confirmation?