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Let's talk about The Order:1886 characters models....

Amir0x said:
i just want to note that while this may be true, people said the same thing about the Killzone CG for PS3. They actually pointed out flaws in the video to show how it was real-time :P
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The difference here is that Guerrilla never said that trailer was realtime, whilst Ready at Dawn have stated it categorically numerous times. Additionally, while The Order looks absolutely top tier (with only the Quuantic Dream tech demo besting it) it doesn't look so far out of the realm of reality as to be impossible on the hardware.
 
ArchedThunder said:
It is running in game, but it remains to be seen if they are in normal gameplay or just cutscenes, you could say the same about The Order.
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We've seen ShadowFall running, it's plain as day that while those are the highest LOD ingame models, they are renders. That is to say, the lighting is much more defined than anything we've seen of the game running realtime. The Order, at this time, is much better looking, what we've seen is realtime.
 
Dennis said:
Not that amazing judging from your screenshots.

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Doesn't look very impressive (low poly, no hair, weak textures on clothes), even super-sampling won't change this. But I get it, The Order won't be released for PCs, so it can't look better than a PC game, right Dennis?
 
AzerPhire said:
Oh absolutely, its not limited to PS4 titles, there are XB1 games that were shown in similar respects.

These in-engine cinematic are the equivalent of all of the trailers we got at the start of the current generation where every developer claimed they were in-game but were actually CGI.
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nope we re not in 2005 again ^^


We also strived to create a seamless experience when it came to the game. The idea was to make sure that you never saw any visual discrepancies or breaks in continuity between gameplay and cinematic. Our game models and our cinematic models are one and the same, and everything is rendered real time in the engine as you play the game. The trailer we presented is a great example of that. What you saw is running in-engine, in-game with no gimmicks. These visuals are what you can expect of the final game when you play it.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/06/10/the-order-1886-brings-victorian-era-to-playstation-4/
 
professor_t said:
Why do people judge the graphics of anything but actual gameplay? How many times can people be fooled by that in-engine nonsense before they start to catch on? Their capacity for being duped seems to be boundless.
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I'm not sure a lot of people realize the difference between 'in-engine', and 'realtime'. A cutsene can be rendered in engine, but not be realtime. ND renders the cutscenes in its games on networked PS3's using the game engine, but they aren't realtime. Shadow fidelity and lighting are at a higher resolution than a single PS3 can output. That said, Ready at Dawn specifically stated that the cutscene was rendered in realtime.
 
woober said:
Looks good, but doesn't impress me especially because its not gameplay. You always see better character models in cutscenes. To give a more recent example, character models in cutscenes in The Last of Us look great, but go into gameplay and it's nowhere near as detailed.
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iKqSWliKmHm8F.gif
 
Off-Kilter said:
The Order is being developed by neither. :P
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I don't think he meant that anyway.

He was probably saying that a company first console iteration looks amazing, and he was imagining how devs with more experience on console tech will make use of this.
 
Norml said:
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Looks fantastic, however, I think he was referring to the fact that even though the character models are the same, the lighting and shadow quality in the pre-rendered (though in-engine) cutscenes in TLoU makes the models look MUCH better than the gameplay models.

That gif of in-game Ellie doesn't look as good as "cutscene Ellie" for that reason:

ellie.jpg
 
Im going to apparently break new ground here and say that Crysis 3 AND The Order AND Quantum Break all look superb in their own ways.
 
With The Order footage, the characters or the carriage don't even cast shadows, and in one of those gifs, you can see some weird shadow flickering going on.
 
kevm3 said:
With The Order footage, the characters or the carriage don't even cast shadows, and in one of those gifs, you can see some weird shadow flickering going on.
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Which gif has the shadow flickering? Much of the trailer is in an incredibly foggy area, I'm not sure I'd expect much in the way of visible shadows.
 
kevm3 said:
With The Order footage, the characters or the carriage don't even cast shadows, and in one of those gifs, you can see some weird shadow flickering going on.
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IRL, when the light is diffused, simulating (post) dusk with lights being reflected off of the pavement and the object above it is sufficiently far away there will hardly be a shadow.
 
Chris_C said:
Looks fantastic, however, I think he was referring to the fact that even though the character models are the same, the lighting and shadow quality in the pre-rendered (though in-engine) cutscenes in TLoU makes the models look MUCH better than the gameplay models.

That gif of in-game Ellie doesn't look as good as "cutscene Ellie" for that reason:

ellie.jpg
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That model of Ellie is old, her model was changed.

This is a close a comparison as you can get(try to ignore the bullshot quality of the cutscene pic):

the-last-of-us-ellie.jpg


vlcsnap-2013-07-02-23zss31.png


I think it's impressively close enough considering you never see a closeup of her face like that in normal circumstances of gameplay. But you're right that the improved lighting/shadowing gives the cutscenes a different, improved "look". I'm sure the models are more detailed too. For instance the texture quality in Uncharted 3's cutscenes are is four times bigger than during gameplay according to an interview with an artist that worked on the game. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened in TLoU, but the models really are much closer in quality than in UC3.
 
androvsky said:
Which gif has the shadow flickering? Much of the trailer is in an incredibly foggy area, I'm not sure I'd expect much in the way of visible shadows.
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If you have a bigger monitor, it's a lot easier to see, but watch the back of his outfit, right beneath his belt when he turns around and kneels down near the beginning of the gif. it's easy to miss.

http://i.minus.com/iixIfHC01Ko8K.gif

This looks great, but not so great that it would be out of the realm of a real-time cutscene, or even gameplay...except gameplay wouldn't look nearly as impressive due to no dramatic camera angles.
 
luca_29_bg said:
Perfect prove that it's totally real time :P
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It looks quite impressive, but not so impressive to be out of the realms of realtime. I wouldn't be surprised if they used those models in gameplay. Obviously it won't look quite as impressive as what we're seeing in cutscenes due to lack of cinematic camera angles.
 
I think the thing I appreciate most about The Order, beyond the moustache and mutton chop combo, is that the characters don't have pebble-textured, perpetually shiny amphibian-skin. I appreciate that those Crysis dudes are probably sweating, but you'd never mistake them for real people, y'know? It's like Crytek needs to cram more and more detail in there, so everyone ends up with faces made out of basketball. Not everyone has to be Edward James Olmos :P
 
kevm3 said:
It looks quite impressive, but not so impressive to be out of the realms of realtime. I wouldn't be surprised if they used those models in gameplay. Obviously it won't look quite as impressive as what we're seeing in cutscenes due to lack of cinematic camera angles.
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yeah i know but the detail will be there ^^
 
jett said:
That model of Ellie is old, her model was changed.

This is a close a comparison as you can get(try to ignore the bullshot quality of the cutscene pic):
]
I think it's impressively close enough considering you never see a closeup of her face like that in normal circumstances of gameplay. But you're right that the improved lighting/shadowing gives the cutscenes a different, improved "look". I'm sure the models are more detailed too. For instance the texture quality in Uncharted 3's cutscenes are is four times bigger than during gameplay according to an interview with an artist that worked on the game. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened in TLoU, but the models really are much closer in quality than in UC3.
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I wasn't saying it wasn't amazingly impressive, but my point stands. The reason the cutscenes in ND games look so much better than gameplay is because while they're in-engine, they're rendered off-line on networked PS3's.
 
Chris_C said:
I'm not sure a lot of people realize the difference between 'in-engine', and 'realtime'. A cutsene can be rendered in engine, but not be realtime. ND renders the cutscenes in its games on networked PS3's using the game engine, but they aren't realtime. Shadow fidelity and lighting are at a higher resolution than a single PS3 can output. That said, Ready at Dawn specifically stated that the cutscene was rendered in realtime.
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Hmm...Well there is still gameplay to be seen, is it going to be a Gears of War clone set in a cyberpunk universe, cause if it is i'm buyin it.
 
jett said:
That model of Ellie is old, her model was changed.

This is a close a comparison as you can get(try to ignore the bullshot quality of the cutscene pic):

the-last-of-us-ellie.jpg


vlcsnap-2013-07-02-23zss31.png


I think it's impressively close enough considering you never see a closeup of her face like that in normal circumstances of gameplay. But you're right that the improved lighting/shadowing gives the cutscenes a different, improved "look". I'm sure the models are more detailed too. For instance the texture quality in Uncharted 3's cutscenes are is four times bigger than during gameplay according to an interview with an artist that worked on the game. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened in TLoU, but the models really are much closer in quality than in UC3.
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Never even got that close to her face in the game, but damn, that is impressively detailed.
 
Neuro said:
Hmm...Well there is still gameplay to be seen, is it going to be a Gears of War clone set in a cyberpunk universe, cause if it is i'm buyin it.
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You mean "steampunk" rather than "cyberpunk", right?

If so, RaD have stated that the universe is somewhat more grounded than what you might see from Steampunk, and while it does appear to be influenced by Steampunk sensibilities, they've distanced themselves somewhat from that label in interviews.
 
Fog makes it hard to tell. Wasn't super impressed by the reveal. Not like the division anyway

Stream quality was poor though and I haven't gone back to look at any hd-er feeds.
 
zoukka said:
...which means absolutely nothing.
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It all comes down to whether you believe them or not. Personally, I've followed RaD since their inception, and they're definitely one of the most technically adept dev studios in the business. I have no reason to doubt them, especially considering how emphatic and clear they've been about the game looking just like the trailer or better.

If it were Ubisoft saying the PS3/Xbox versions of their games would look as good as the screenshots and trailers for AC3, then I'd have cause to be skeptical given their track record, but RaD have given me no reason to doubt them.
 
The models themselves are rather low-poly... The maps are very good though.

And the gifs always show me the real problem - Game animations are pretty horrible and tend to ruin any illusion the models build.
 
I just want them to sort out that God awful aspect ratio. My screen is 16:9 and has a 1080p resolution. Make games appropriately for it. Black bars have no place in games.
 
PS4 said:
Definitely have to disagree with you on this not being impressive.

Also, the grainy effect enhances the visuals IMO.
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Fair enough, but I think(and hope) that the grainy effect is only there for the cutscenes where it gives a more cinematic feel. I don't want that during gameplay though.
 
VanWinkle said:
What is the poly count of these characters? Or, if you're unsure, what gives it away that it's not a high poly count at all?
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The fact that the arms when bent are not creating folds in the fabric when moving...the plate Armour and in particular the chains on the shoulders are simply textures....Armour in real life has its own movement separate to the body..its own weight..its components have their own mass which reacts to the body but not in the same movement of the body

The game does look very pretty but the point im trying to make is that massive poly counts don't mean great looking game....you stuff the lighting it gives the whole game away

Uncharted is probably a good example of using the correct lighting in combination with good textures...the 2 when done correctly looked beautiful.

Imo the two areas where next gen will improve things....better Hair and Eyes
we are still in the age where devs have to have hero with short hair/bald or in pony tails because of the limitations of the hardware

Hair takes up a fuckton of processing power so i cant wait to see what games look like a few years from now
 
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