LGBT gets a new flag - reinventing the visible light spectrum

perfectchaos007 said:
LGBTQ already has plenty of flags, not just the original rainbow the masses are used to seeing. Here's a guide
sitemgr_ultimate_lgbtq_flag_guide_by_leiandlove-d3wjbvr.jpg
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Great post! Thanks duder.
 
NintendoRev said:
So oppression toward members of the gay community only counts if you're of colour now? Kk. I'll just act like i've never been discriminated against ever. Sounds great.


But then again, i'm white so my opinion doesn't matter and i'm immediately a racist.
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You speak from a place of privilege. Homophobia exists regardless of skin color, but you cannot deny that people of color are continuously discriminated within even our own community. I, as a white transwoman, can easily say that I have it fucking bad, but I've witnessed black transwomen who got it far worse because their skin tone, to the point I've seen them being denied services from trans friendly centers.
 
Yado said:
Think about what you're saying, people have ALWAYS used whatever iteration of the flag they wanted to. Do you think they're going to scour the city for the old flags and burn them?
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No, but they may push for LGBT establishments to hang this, though they may disagree with it. See what happened with BLM and Toronto pride. Personally I thought it was pretty disgusting that police were excluded from Pride.
 
perfectchaos007 said:
LGBTQ already has plenty of flags, not just the original rainbow the masses are used to seeing. Here's a guide
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I think the issue is though, those flags at least go for something unique to represent what they are, this is just the Gay Pride Rainbow Flag with black and brown bolted on top, creative wise it's lacking and doesn't make sense, it turns the flag from "Everyone under the rainbow" to "Everyone under the rainbow, ...and Black People".
 
Trust and believe if we made our own flag instead it would be met with backlash too.

I am sure some of the responses here are sincere but that does not go for all the opposing opinions at large.
 
Ms.Galaxy said:
Aesthetically, it doesn't look so good (I'm starting to slowly like it though). Symbolically, it's god damn fucking needed. The amount of racism I've seen in the LGBT community sometimes makes me feel that I'm in 1950s America.

One can just go into gay dating sites and easily see the amount of "no blacks plz" on people's profiles. In LGBT media, people also loves to idolize the white gay cis-male over every other race, sexuality, sex, and gender. Inside a lot of clubs and community centers, there's sometimes a clear disdain for black queers. Oh, and don't get me started on how black trans people are treated. It's bad enough for me, as a white transwoman, but holy shit the disgusting treatment and behavior I've seen against black transwomen within our own community is appalling. Hell, even our own history is whitewashed internally (Did you know Stonewall was started by a Hispanic transwoman and a black cross dresser? A lot of people actually think it was a white guy who did it because of that stupid movie.) Quite frankly, this shit needs to be discussed.

And to be honest, the LGBT community has a lot of bloody bigotry to addressed. It's just not racism, there's slight signs of miysgony, a whole lot of biphobia and transphobia, and in a lot of eyes, every other gender identity, sexualitiy (including asexuals), and romantic orientations doesn't exist. There's a very clear social hierarchy inside, and to say that the old flag should remain because it's "inclusive" is laughable.

In my eyes, this new flag is needed, it's the first step to talking about the sheer bigotry within the community going forward. We seriously need to discuss it.
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Yeah, gay dating is intense with the amount of racism.

Gay Guys React To Racist Grindr Profiles!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tei2xyiMhA
How Black Guys React To Seeing “No Blacks” On Dating Apps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKwiPJSsJg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s4gXljVnp8#t=3m26s
 
Lights and Waves said:
Gay POC here. I don't see the point. Isn't the flag supposed to represent everyone? That's why it's a rainbow, every color of visible light?
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It's a tricky topic, on one hand, i agree with what you said, on the other hand i keep reading horror stories about minimizing POC representation within pride, so i can see why people would want to raise awareness like this.
 
NintendoRev said:
So oppression toward members of the gay community only counts if you're of colour now? Kk. I'll just act like i've never been discriminated against ever. Sounds great.


But then again, i'm white so my opinion doesn't matter and i'm immediately a racist.
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Dude, calm down. No one said you were racist and no one said the discrimination you went through isn't real. This is simply a recognition that gay POC face unique challenges and a different type of discrimination. You've been through discrimination before, you should be able to sympathize and understand the suffering other people are going through. This is not a bad thing.
 
Kase said:
Agreed. I would be fine if this was used contextually to focus on the issue of racism within the community. But what I would not agree with is if it was forced to become the defacto flag, and people use this to call people out for being anti-race inclusive. Even if for just within Philly.
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Sai-kun said:
this thing has been around less than a week. it's a bit early to be worried about some crazy hypotheticals.
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I know, right? People jumping to conclusions that because Philadelphia decided to highlight the struggles that specific groups in the LGBT community face in that area, now suddenly this is now the new flag to take over the rainbow flag forever and ever.
 
TesUsa said:
Isn't queer considered a derogatory term?
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I know you've had a few answers so far, but some LGBTQ+ people will use the term "queer" for themselves because they may be unsure what they identify as, so they don't necessarily have to put themselves in a box right away. It helps include those that don't fall under the LGBT label in general as well.

Edit: And gais don't alter LBGT+ symbols that have been altered before to highlight racism because it will cause more racism! This is really PoCs fault. Why can't they do anything right to represent themselves or talk about their injustices, gah. Quit fanning the flames! /s Like pointing out or making their own flags or doing anything else wouldn't be met with "You're creating more division!".
 
Via Purifico said:
Trust and believe if we made our own flag instead it would be met with backlash too.

I am sure some of the responses here are sincere but that does not go for all the opposing opinions at large.
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I don't think so. I'm pretty sure most people here believe that this is meant to replace the rainbow flag instead of supplement it.

A special PoC flag would not be met with the same amount of concern.
 
I feel like there is a lot of confusion in this thread because the op is bad. If you just read the title and the post without following the link it doesn't say anything about this being a Philadelphia-specific flag. It just flat out says it's the new LGBT flag. There are a grip of angry Royolan posts acting like people are racists because they didn't have a problem with other niche Pride flags, but the op isn't clear that it's not the new general Pride flag.
 
The Exploder said:
I feel like there is a lot of confusion in this thread because the op is bad. If you just read the title and the post without following the link it doesn't say anything about this being a Philadelphia-specific flag. It just flat out says it's the new LGBT flag. There are a grip of angry Royolan posts acting like people are racists because they didn't have a problem with other niche Pride flags, but the op isn't clear that it's not the new general Pride flag.
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Now Hikes, a black queer woman, is excited about a new gay-rights symbol: a pride flag with additional black and brown stripes above the rest of the rainbow. The stripes represent LGBT individuals of color, a group that can often be overlooked within the overall LGBT umbrella.
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Not seeing anything about them wanting to replace the normal rainbow flag anywhere in this article. Just that they're using a new flag to highlight the added discrimination that PoC experience in the LGBT+ community. Other cities reached out to this group to support the flag. They aren't pushing anything about a replacement, as far as I can see.
 
ahoyhoy said:
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure most people here believe that this is meant to replace the rainbow flag instead of supplement it.

A special PoC flag would not be met with the same amount of concern.
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Yes it would, but it would be a different kind of concern the trolling kind.


The Exploder said:
I feel like there is a lot of confusion in this thread because the op is bad. If you just read the title and the post without following the link it doesn't say anything about this being a Philadelphia-specific flag. It just flat out says it's the new LGBT flag. There are a grip of angry Royolan posts acting like people are racists because they didn't have a problem with other niche Pride flags, but the op isn't clear that it's not the new general Pride flag.
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Roy has the right to be angry and he's not calling everyone in this thread outright racists.

He is trying to make a point that there are all sorts of different flags and there hasn't been this kind of a problem.
 
I don't like it as a replacement, but I don't think that's realistically happening anyway so whatever.
As far as "alternate" pride flags go, cool idea.
 
Zaphrynn said:
Not seeing anything about them wanting to replace the normal rainbow flag anywhere in this article. Just that they're using a new flag to highlight the added discrimination that PoC experience in the LGBT+ community. Other cities reached out to this group to support the flag. They aren't pushing anything about a replacement, as far as I can see.
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Via Purifico said:
Yes it would, but it would be a different kind of concern the trolling kind.




Roy has the right to be angry and he's not calling everyone in this thread outright racists.

He is trying to make a point that there are all sorts of different flags and there hasn't been this kind of a problem.
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My point is that there would probably be less criticism of the flag in this thread if the OP was clear that it was a variation on the Pride flag instead of making it sound like it's flat out supposed to be the new Pride flag.
 
Tuck said:
No, it doesn't make sense at all actually.

I'll preface this by saying I'm a brown, gay man. There is much to be said about how people of color are treated in the LGBT community. That is, not particularly well; there is a clear higharchy: whites at the top, blacks at the bottom and everyone else in between. I do believe this needs to be tackled, and that it often gets swept under the rug.

I do not like this new flag however. In fact, I might just actively hate it. The first reason is a bit shallow: its ugly. You have the rainbow.... and then black and brown. It doesn't fit and it doesn't really look nice.

The second, more important reason is that the pride flag does not explicitly include ethnicites and thats the point. Its supposed to be a sign of welcome for everyone. This betrays that completely. By adding black and brown, they are taking away from that underlying theme.

What about Asians (Which itself is a group of a wide range of unique cultures) ? What about Latinos? First Nations? Shouldn't they get representation here too? Thats the problem this flag introduces, and its a problem the original avoids by design. The original flag implicitly includes everyone by explicitly including no one. This flag explicitly includes only two groups and therefore explicitly excludes everyone who doesn't get their own color. I see this as leading to quite the slippery slope where everyone else needs their own color on one flag and suddenly we have just as many colors as we have in the LGBT*.... acronym (which is to say, a lot).

Different ethnic groups are not supposed to have their own color on the flag because it betrays the point of the flag, which is to unify. This divides. This reminds us how fractured the LGBT community is. Now, maybe to some thats a good thing. It shows people how far we have to go. But that turns it into a symbol of negativity, wheres its supposed to by a symbol of happiness and well, pride.



This. It feels like scraps. Like "Ok, sure if you insist, you can have your own special place on the flag, separate from the rest of us"
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I agree with this.
 
The Exploder said:
My point is that there would probably be less criticism of the flag in this thread if the OP was clear that it was a variation on the Pride flag instead of making it sound like it's flat out supposed to be the new Pride flag.
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Only an idiot would think that.
 
ahoyhoy said:
Oh yeah most certainly. Conservative assholes would try to play it up for sure. I thought you meant it would result in the same kind of backlash. My bad.
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No problem at all, I probably wasn't clear.

But unfortunately it wouldn't just be conservatives it would also come from self proclaim liberal gays.
 
Tuck said:
No, it doesn't make sense at all actually.

I'll preface this by saying I'm a brown, gay man. There is much to be said about how people of color are treated in the LGBT community. That is, not particularly well; there is a clear higharchy: whites at the top, blacks at the bottom and everyone else in between. I do believe this needs to be tackled, and that it often gets swept under the rug.

I do not like this new flag however. In fact, I might just actively hate it. The first reason is a bit shallow: its ugly. You have the rainbow.... and then black and brown. It doesn't fit and it doesn't really look nice.

The second, more important reason is that the pride flag does not explicitly include ethnicites and thats the point. Its supposed to be a sign of welcome for everyone. This betrays that completely. By adding black and brown, they are taking away from that underlying theme.

What about Asians (Which itself is a group of a wide range of unique cultures) ? What about Latinos? First Nations? Shouldn't they get representation here too? Thats the problem this flag introduces, and its a problem the original avoids by design. The original flag implicitly includes everyone by explicitly including no one. This flag explicitly includes only two groups and therefore explicitly excludes everyone who doesn't get their own color. I see this as leading to quite the slippery slope where everyone else needs their own color on one flag and suddenly we have just as many colors as we have in the LGBT*.... acronym (which is to say, a lot).

Different ethnic groups are not supposed to have their own color on the flag because it betrays the point of the flag, which is to unify. This divides. This reminds us how fractured the LGBT community is. Now, maybe to some thats a good thing. It shows people how far we have to go. But that turns it into a symbol of negativity, wheres its supposed to by a symbol of happiness and well, pride.



This. It feels like scraps. Like "Ok, sure if you insist, you can have your own special place on the flag, separate from the rest of us"
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Yeah that was my first impression too. I thought that it was what the first post implied too, but everyone piled on it without stopping for one second to think.
 
I'm not calling anyone racist. Apologies if anyone got that impression. (Well, except for the poster that kept insisting that people don't talk about homophobia in the black community. That was a little peculiar...)

For everyone else, I just want people​ to explore WHY this particular flag is receiving so much push back. I mean, as has been demonstrated, the rainbow flag is not "sacred". It was adopted in the 70s and has been altered plenty of times before. This is nothing new, but as a black person in this city that DOES have a huge issue with race, it is saddening to see THIS be the moment that people decide the flag shouldn't be touched.
 
The Exploder said:
My point is that there would probably be less criticism of the flag in this thread if the OP was clear that it was a variation on the Pride flag instead of making it sound like it's flat out supposed to be the new Pride flag.
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Ah I see, sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
ahoyhoy said:
Might wanna just block half the posters in this thread since apparently there are a lot of idiots misled by the title and OP.
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A quick glance at the OP should tell anyone it would be simply illogical to assume this flag was meant to replace the old one. Who in that photo would have the authority to do such a thing on a nationwide scale and how would they enforce it?
 
Yado said:
A quick glance at the OP should tell anyone it would be simply illogical to assume this flag was meant to replace the old one. Who in that photo would have the authority to do such a thing on a nationwide scale and how would they enforce it?
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If people really wanted to they could push a campaign to use this to replace the old flag as the defacto LGBT symbol, and that's what the OP implies is happening here.

I think this misunderstanding was the cause of a lot of friction in this thread.
 
Yado said:
A quick glance at the OP should tell anyone it would be simply illogical to assume this flag was meant to replace the old one. Who in that photo would have the authority to do such a thing on a nationwide scale and how would they enforce it?
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THE OP DOESN'T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT IT BEING A VARIATION AND IT DOESN'T EVEN MENTION PHILADELPHIA, WHICH IT TURNS OUT IS A HUGELY IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION IF YOU READ ROYOLAN'S POSTS.
 
ahoyhoy said:
If people really wanted to they could push a campaign to use this to replace the old flag as the defacto LGBT symbol, and that's what the OP implies is happening here.

I think this misunderstanding was the cause of a lot of friction in this thread.
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Actually most of the friction in this thread was from people saying this was a superfluous change that isn't doing enough, not that it was doing too much. But ok.
 
I can see the confusion from people who aren't aware there are multiple flags already.

This caused me to talk to my partner of five years about the issues POC face in the gay community. I'm just a young white guy, but looking in, it seems they're either ostracized or fetishized. Glad attention is being brought to it, and many more issues I'm not currently aware of.
 
I'll be honest, I don't like this flag. Not only is it tacky, it feels like they're sidestepping real issues that LGBTQ+ POC have in this community. Which they do have and would of rather seen the city of Philidelphia done instead of create this flag that really misses the point of the pride flag.
The pride flag to me represents everyone, like a rainbow. We all come from different races, cultures, places, and walks of life. I don't think we should be trying to change the origional intention of the flag and look more to address actual issues in our community instead.
 
I don't see a problem with this. I agree it does look a little tacky, but that could be simply changed by some rearrangement or gradient blending.

I see there's a lot of discussion concerning dating. I haven't had much experience myself because I still feel extremely shy and afraid. Once I get my finances straight I might try online again, but are there any dating apps for lesbians and are they just as bad as Grindr?
 
NipplesAndToes23 said:
I don't see a problem with this. I agree it does look a little tacky, but that could be simply changed by some rearrangement or gradient blending.

I see there's a lot of discussion concerning dating. I haven't had much experience myself because I still feel extremely shy and afraid. Once I get my finances straight I might try online again, but are there any dating apps for lesbians and are they just as bad as Grindr?
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There are lesbians on Tinder but obviously, there are lesbian dating apps. No idea if they're any good since I'm a straight dude, but there is Her, Fem, LGBTQutie (paid), Just She (paid).
 
Whatever helps address the racism in the community gets my support. I'm not certain how much a flag will do but I'm at a loss for other, more effective measures.

It does look a little like the bear pride flag though. Not sure tacking those on the top was the best design. I just saw on the news the transgender pride flag and it was all blue, pink and white. I wonder if it would have been better to be more comprehensive in the design.

Edit: Oh, I see someone's posted alternate flags already.
 
The rainbow flag is figurative, not literal. It represents the metaphor that we appreciate a rainbow as beautiful because of all of its diverse colours, and thus if we appreciate and embrace the diversity of humanity the same way, then we are far more beautiful. It already represents every one of us.

This change makes the flag literal and destroys this metaphor. Suddenly the colours are meant to represent skin colour? It becomes exclusionary and divisive. I think it is the wrong way to tackle issues of racism within LGBT communities. It's the practice of not living up to the symbol that needs to be changed, not the symbol itself. Besides all of this, it looks terrible.
 
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