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[Ailynn]

@I'm new be nice: Thank you for starting this thread and for sharing your story! I hope that everyone can share their own experiences with an open heart and empathy. I’ve shared my story before, but I’ll share it again below:

Spoiler

I grew up in a Christian home and am a person of strong Christian faith myself. I never suffered sexual abuse, and never got into drugs or anything else deemed unhealthy. My family was happy and I was a mostly well adjusted kid. Still, I knew I was different from about the age of 4; feeling much more in common with girls than boys. I never wanted to do anything I felt would be disapproved of or bring stress to my parents, so I kept my feelings to myself as much as possible. I was a very quiet kid in school, and usually stayed in my own world...focusing mostly on drawing and eventually videogames for escape. I was a very kind and considerate child, and had empathy even for those that picked on me...so I never really ever got mad at anyone no matter what they did. Still, the bullying and derogatory remarks began seriously instilling the feeling that there was something deeply wrong with me, so I did my best to hide and fit in...although my efforts were not very effective. The occasional anti-LGBT+ church sermon as well as extremely negative representation in the media certainly didn't help matters.

I started disliking my body at a very young age, and the feeling was compounded by the fact that my body had a couple of genital abnormalities and malformations which I had to have surgery on when I was 11. (I would find out only a couple of years ago that I was epigenetically effected by a drug called Diethylstilbestrol, which has since the 1940’s caused millions of people to be born with many side effects, including many forms of sexual differentiation and gene abnormalities.) Slowly after that surgery, testosterone began slowly changing my body through puberty (although I would remain mostly asexual for the remainder of my life). The more my body changed, the more I hated my reflection and felt bad about myself. Finally around age 14, I learned I wasn't alone when I saw Caroline Cossey on The Phil Donahue Show (this was back before the Internet was so widely used.) I knew I was transsexual, but I was still far too scared to let anyone know.

Fast forward now 20-something years of trying my absolute hardest to live as a 'regular guy' out of fear of rejection from all I held dear, as well as a fear that God disapproved...even though it was never anything I ever chose to feel, and often fought hard against and tried to pray away. Living through all that time trying to fit into the role opposite my own gender identity caused me eventual intense self-hatred, depression and anxiety, and eventually suicidal feelings. For a couple of years, I actually felt it was better for me to die and take my secret to the grave rather than risk losing everyone I loved. Eventually I decided it would hurt everyone worse if I killed myself, so I decided to give my life one more chance by doing what I had wanted to 20 years earlier...I decided to come out as transgender and begin transition.

Now, I am a transsexual a couple of years into full gender transition and have never felt happier. I am finally comfortable with myself and have a growing confidence like I had never known, and my previously crippling depression and anxiety have disappeared. I am incredibly grateful I did not end my life, and I see each new day living as my genuine self as a blessing. My faith in God has never been stronger…I finally feel at peace in my body, and I am thankful for the empathy and compassion the life I have been given has helped me have for other people of all walks of life.

@camelCase: Shemale and Tranny are most certainly seen as derogatory and offensive to most transgender people, and have been for quite some time. (I’ve heard that even the pornography industry seems to be shying away from using those terms these days). Transsexual is a term that many do find offensive these days, but others like myself do not. I have no problem with people knowing I have undergone medical treatments and surgery to live as the gender I align with, but many trans people understandably feel that no one should need to know such private information.

Another offensive term is Sissy…although I believe it is a stretch to label transgender people with this one, as it is used more now to reference a fetishistic subculture where the goal seems to be taking ‘weak straight men’ and forcibly feminizing them for a sexual thrill for both parties. Similarly is the acronym TG, which is attached to a lot of fetishistic art and stories. I find both of these interests worriedly demeaning and objectifying.


@AngularSaxophone: Hey there! I enjoyed our talks from before, and yes sir…you can certainly count me as one Christian that fits into the LGBT+ category. I tend to shy away from confrontation, which is why I haven’t yet entered into the Christian thread as it seemed to have a rather argumentative atmosphere. I still plan on cautiously doing so at some point though, so I’m sure I’ll see you there!


@Corderlain: The preferred pronouns thing is honestly something that should be of very little concern. I’ve met over 500 transgender people through Facebook, and we all prefer whichever binary gendered pronouns that we identify as…such as she/her/hers and he/him/his. I’ve met 2 people that don’t feel comfortable being called male or female pronouns, and prefer they/them/theirs. NONE of us have ever met anyone that identifies as any of those newly created gender pronouns such as ze/zir. At this point, I’m beginning to wonder if these were simply created as a mockery of transgender people.

I know trans people may have received a reputation here with some people as a bitter and angry group of people. In truth, the vast majority of trans people are very kind people who may have lived difficult lives, and are just trying to live a meaningful life to the best of our ability. We don’t want special treatment…we simply want to be treated with dignity, have equal rights without discrimination, and to live in peace and harmony with the rest of the world.

 

[iconmaster]

Ailynn As a Christian myself I do not know what to make of your story, but I appreciate your generous spirit!

 

[Shouta]

Just to add a bit to what Ailynn said about pronouns, I know about a dozen transgender people ranging from long-time friends to co-workers. I haven't met one person that used ze/zir or those other newly created ones. It's a smaller sample size but they're all people I've met and interacted with in person. So it feels like some of the stuff we hear is just within the scope of the internet and the fervor it generates.

 

[I'm new be nice]

Ailynn Thank you so much for sharing! It was getting lonely being here alone Your story is a captivating one, I must say! It's so crazy holding these feelings in for so long, knowing that it's eating at you, only because you think it's the best way to stay in tune with the world around you. When you finally let it all go it's almost like a rebirth, like you're actually living for the first time, and all this fear you had over the rejection you might face is actually illuminated by the reality that being yourself makes you more in touch with the world around you. That's how I felt, anyways. People certainly seemed to like me much more once I started living true to myself.

I've certainly grown to appreciate Religion as i've gotten older, and although I would personally align myself mainly with Taoism, I think the same general sets of conclusions are met; living in harmony with the world and loving your fellow man, and yourself, flaws and all. You certainly seem like an angelic ray of light to me, so I suspect you are in perfect harmony

It's pretty clear where a few people have attacked me. If you can be bother to scroll up good luck. Nice of everyone to push away anyone who has questions.

I'm sorry if I seemed dismissive to you dude, but at the end of the day it does kind of come down to decency. I was having a few drinks last night, I must admit, to unwind from a week of work and I could have put a bit more effort into my post there (at the very least spell checked it, lol). I just would like the atmosphere here to be honest and chill, and for us to be relaxed, and yeah maybe Cauliflower of Love was a bit too aggressive in their posting style for my taste, but they did have some good points too. I didn't mean to disway you from the Community. We're all human here, with all our various imperfections.

I was actually thinking when I first posted this Community Thread that I'd really need to step up my general effort in posting, which means I should only really reply when I think i'm at my best, which i'll try to do in the future. It feels like such a great opportunity to start again here, and i'd really like to do my best to try and maintain a peaceful atmosphere, although i'm sure that won't always be possible. But that means that I need to hold myself to a higher standard and ensure that i'm trying to be fair to everyone. The essence of this new Community definitely means that conflict will arise, and we'll have to do our best to try and stay civil, and if we lose that civility to take a step back and do our best to correct that.

Anyways, I do appreciate you asking your question and participating in the Community, and I hope we can continue to learn together.
----------------

And just to everyone in general, if you feel there is something that could be changed in the Original Post, please do let me know! I'll try to keep it both informative and stylish!

Thanks again everyone for participating so far! This is awesome!

 

[Ar¢tos]

Have you ever actually met someone that does this? I've been going to LGBT-themed/aimed events for the better part of a decade and still have yet to meet a single person who actually wants to be referred to by pronouns that aren't she/he/they. The 'xie/zee/whatever' bogeyman is such a strange phenomena.

And it is pretty much exclusive to the English language, other languages lack not only a translation to those pronoums, but also the ability to even construct something similar (example: Portuguese, no neutral gender and pronoums have gender even in the plural).

 

[I'm new be nice]

So I wanted to experiment a little with some Makeup since it has been something i've been wanting to try for a long time.

I have a pretty thick beard, which means even if I shave as close as possible I still have a visible shadow, so I mainly set out with the goal of simply covering my beard shadow without any additional effects, just to see what it would look like.

I had absolutely no idea where to start, so I just Googled "Makeup" and "Beard Shadow" and went with the first link. I followed the guide and purchased the items they recommended:

I tried to stick as close as I could to the video at the end of that guide, but even still my first assumption is I used way too much, my face came out looking pretty ghostly! Under the right lighting it's still pretty obvious I have a beard shadow too, but I think I kind of understand what I would need to do now. It seems like the main tool for beard shadow is the Liquid Foundation, which I'd need to dab on, whereas I was kinda flicking it down off my jaw line a bit more than I should be.

It's really hard! I just want it to look natural for the most part, but I definitely think it's a skill that would take years to really master.

I really enjoyed my first attempt at it anyways! Holy crap is it hard to get off though! I have like 20 Washcloths (I use a new one every day lol) so I just used a lot of hot water and gently rubbed it off, but man especially around the eyes is it hard to get fully off! It's just hard on the skin in general. Mine's always been really sensitive though.

 

[llien]

Pansexual definition is referencing term "agender", which has not been defined in OP.

Did I get it right, that transsexual is a transgender who did medical transition?

 

[mekes]

Make Up wipes are pretty good at removing everything, even the trickier products around the eyes. Just a simple and cheap product will do the job, no need to push the boat out with those. Worst case scenario is one for the eyes and another for the face, but one wipe could also get everything done. Using water alone could take some time. The wipes are good and don’t cost even a small amount of what some actual make up costs. I’d recommend them, it’s just 1 minute and everything’s off.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I'm a 33 year old gay male trucker. Not much else to say. I came out of the closet as a homosexual at 16, and came out of the closet as a conservative just a few years ago. Not surprisingly I lost more friends the 2nd time.

 

[I'm new be nice]

Pansexual definition is referencing term "agender", which has not been defined in OP.

Did I get it right, that transsexual is a transgender who did medical transition?

I can add the term when I get a moment. I'll probably drop the image in favor of something more easily editable. I just wanted to have an excuse to use some photos from my trip to Japan really lol.

Yeah my understanding is not all Transexuals choose to transition. I know of one male singer in particular who has chosen not to to avoid the effects on their voice and continues to live biologically as female.

Make Up wipes are pretty good at removing everything, even the trickier products around the eyes. Just a simple and cheap product will do the job, no need to push the boat out with those. Worst case scenario is one for the eyes and another for the face, but one wipe could also get everything done. Using water alone could take some time. The wipes are good and don’t cost even a small amount of what some actual make up costs. I’d recommend them, it’s just 1 minute and everything’s off.

Thanks for the advice. It seems like I could easily fuck up my skin if I don't remove it properly, so I'll be sure to look into that.

I'm a 33 year old gay male trucker. Not much else to say. I came out of the closet as a homosexual at 16, and came out of the closet as a conservative just a few years ago. Not surprisingly I lost more friends the 2nd time.

Sorry to hear that man. These are certainly polarized times.

 

[BANGS]

I'm strait and cis and all but I support equal rights for everyone... Power to the people!

 

[Rajack]

Pansexual definition is referencing term "agender", which has not been defined in OP.

Did I get it right, that transsexual is a transgender who did medical transition?

The term Transsexual is a gross and derogatory term that should never be used. EVER. Like seriously, don't use it.

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

I am straight, heterosexual, I do not care what you do in your bed, that is your own business, but since I firmly stand by my belief that there are only two genders, I will only use "he" and "she" to refer to members of the LGBT community, and that only based on their biological sex.

Do not wish to aggrevate anyone by saying this, but this is my view on the matter and it is unchanging.

 

[BANGS]

The term Transsexual is a gross and derogatory term that should never be used.

Why?

 

[Beard of the Forest]

The term Transsexual is a gross and derogatory term that should never be used. EVER. Like seriously, don't use it.

I've never known this term to be intended as derogatory. My understanding is that transsexual is simply the term for a transgender individual who's physically made the transition to the other sex. Of course, everyone's an individual and as such can have their own hangups about different things including terminology.

I am straight, heterosexual, I do not care what you do in your bed, that is your own business, but since I firmly stand by my belief that there are only two genders, I will only use "he" and "she" to refer to members of the LGBT community, and that only based on their biological sex.

Do not wish to aggrevate anyone by saying this, but this is my view on the matter and it is unchanging.

The world is simply not binary, there's shades of grey in just about everything. Even if you hammer square pegs into round holes, that doesn't mean they fit.

 

[ILLtown]

When it comes to words that are considered derogatory, I find it hard to keep up sometimes. When I was young, "queer" was most definitely a derogatory term, always used either against gay men or to insult a straight man and imply that he's not very masculine. Obviously I'm aware that times have changed when it comes to that word, but I'm surprised to see people in this thread saying that "transexual" is derogatory as well. I had no idea about that one. Isn't "trans" short for "transexual"? Is "trans" offensive to some people as well then?

 

[TFGB]

So I wanted to experiment a little with some Makeup

I wish I had your skin! You look fab btw.

 

[7echnicolor]

When it comes to words that are considered derogatory, I find it hard to keep up sometimes. When I was young, "queer" was most definitely a derogatory term, always used either against gay men or to insult a straight man and imply that he's not very masculine. Obviously I'm aware that times have changed when it comes to that word, but I'm surprised to see people in this thread saying that "transexual" is derogatory as well. I had no idea about that one. Isn't "trans" short for "transexual"? Is "trans" offensive to some people as well then?

Trans is short for transgender, 99% of the time.

I am straight, heterosexual, I do not care what you do in your bed, that is your own business, but since I firmly stand by my belief that there are only two genders, I will only use "he" and "she" to refer to members of the LGBT community, and that only based on their biological sex.

Do not wish to aggrevate anyone by saying this, but this is my view on the matter and it is unchanging.

Why even post then? Don’t do this in the LGBT topic, keep your uneducated-ass opinion to yourself. Thanks.

P.S. Intersex people exist.

 

[Ailynn]

@ I'm new be nice : You look great! Oh, and yes...hiding beard stubble is incredibly difficult, and I honestly never found a way to do it perfectly. Having dark hair and very fair skin, it wasn't until I went through nearly $3000 worth of laser hair removal and electrolysis over the past 3 years that I finally can go out in public without fear of anyone seeing the tiniest hint of beard shadow under my skin. Hormone replacement therapy halts the growth of body hair usually within the first year, but it never stops beard growth. It's one of the biggest struggles that trans women have to deal with.

The term Transsexual is a gross and derogatory term that should never be used. EVER. Like seriously, don't use it.

I've noticed that more and more people see the term Transsexual as offensive, which is why I would never use it in certain company. However, I myself am more than fine being labeled as one. I want people to know that I have undergone medical and surgical transition, as it has a few benefits for me socially:

1. It helped people take my gender identity and transition more seriously
2. It cuts down on people feeling 'threatened' by what may or may not be in my pants
3. It cuts down on contact from people that view pre-op trans women fetishistically

I understand why many transgender people may reject the term Transsexual or see it as outdated. Many trans people simply cannot afford or have access to medically or surgically transition, and there are others who may be fine without doing so.

Really though, I feel the definition simply helps differentiate a certain group within the transgender umbrella term:

Trans·sex·u·al: A person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex.

I am straight, heterosexual, I do not care what you do in your bed, that is your own business, but since I firmly stand by my belief that there are only two genders, I will only use "he" and "she" to refer to members of the LGBT community, and that only based on their biological sex.

Do not wish to aggravate anyone by saying this, but this is my view on the matter and it is unchanging.

As others have mentioned, sex is not always simply just male or female, neither in humanity or in the animal kingdom. Male and female are the default, sure...but there are rare times where the lines blur. There are endocrine disruptors everywhere that effect wildlife, as well as human babies prenatally. This is what happened to me through the drug Diethylstilbestrol, and that is only one out of MANY endocrine disruptors out there in the modern world. Outside these chemically induced changes that have been happening for at least 50 years...Intersex people, transgender and gender non-conforming people have existed for thousands of years. There are also animals that can naturally just change sex when needed.

It's not possible to know the biological sex of everyone in any given social situation. The polite thing is to use the pronouns that the individual prefers (and don't worry, I highly doubt you will EVER meet anyone that prefers anything other than he or she, or possibly rarely they.) It's understandable that you may call someone by a gender pronoun that they have an aversion to, and to which they may ask you to use another. To purposefully continue to call someone by a pronoun that they have an aversion to is incredibly rude and can be emotionally damaging to that person.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Back when I was in college just 7 years ago I was told the word 'transexual' was the clinical term for a transgendered individual who had gone through the surgery. According to my trans friends at the time it was not a pejorative, but the correct medical terminology to use when differentiating between one who has surgically transitioned and one who has not.

When did this change?

 

[BANGS]

To purposefully continue to call someone by a pronoun that they have an aversion to is incredibly rude and can be emotionally damaging to that person.

Perception is 9/10ths of reality though... you can't take it personally if someone doesn't share the same perception about you that you have about yourself. I certainly can understand why some would say it's rude but allowing it to emotionally damage you is a serious problem that only you can fix, you can't expect society to comply. I suggest seeing a therapist if pronouns actually bother you that much, as it may be indicative of much deeper psychological issues that have nothing to do with your sex/gender...

 

[Shouta]

Back when I was in college just 7 years ago I was told the word 'transexual' was the clinical term for a transgendered individual who had gone through the surgery. According to my trans friends at the time it was not a pejorative, but the correct medical terminology to use when differentiating between one who has surgically transitioned and one who has not.

When did this change?

As far as I know, this entire field is pretty rapidly changing and terminology is still being decided. It's accelerated in recent years though. I think "transsexual" has become more unaccepted because of "tranny" being seen as a derogatory term.

Perception is 9/10ths of reality though... you can't take it personally if someone doesn't share the same perception about you that you have about yourself. I certainly can understand why some would say it's rude but allowing it to emotionally damage you is a serious problem that only you can fix, you can't expect society to comply. I suggest seeing a therapist if pronouns actually bother you that much, as it may be indicative of much deeper psychological issues that have nothing to do with your sex/gender...

It's not hurting them because they might have a problem, it's what's causing the problem. People are affected by what is said to them and repeatedly being exposed to certain things can change the emotional well-being of someone. Verbal abuse by parents is a huge cause of problems that children may develop later in life because their view is being shaped by that negativity. It can happen in healthy adults too eventually. Get told your trash day in and day out at work and at home then follow it up with a few failures and even steadfast person will begin to have their views warped.

 

[yeahokaywhatever]

I don't know where to post this, really. So, if I'm out of line or if it seems I am using the wrong terms, please... let me know and hear me out or feel free to delete. I met a great gal a while back ago. We had mutual friends, everyone referred to her with a female pronoun and we hung out and eventually dated. But whenever we'd make out, she would get distant and nervous after a while. I asked her what was wrong and she said she was having her period, felt self-conscious and didn't want to go any further but proceeded to take the lead in other aspects. Cool, I respected and understood that. A while later, she wanted to have sex, but gave me the same line about her period and asked if I could do anal instead of vaginal. Afterwards she cried and told me we had to talk. I thought she was cheating on me or had some sort of sexual trauma. She confessed she was transitioning into a female and liked me and didn't want to lie to me. I didn't know how to react. I wasn't violently angry, but was taken aback. The only thing I could say is: "How would you have felt if I lied to you about something about myself?" Later on we talked and were working things out. There were no signs that I would've known about her past and later on our friends confessed what she told me after the fact and she up and left town due to family issues, calling me crying telling me that she was sorry.

I told her she didn't have to apologize so much, and that all was forgiven. I genuinely liked her, we still keep in touch and things are going well for her but has to take care of her family. This gave me some inner strife and doubt if I am bi or what the deal may be. Everything was feminine and there was nothing masculine about her at all. Does that make me a "chaser" to some? I didn't deliberately know. What if this happens again? Would I be labeled a fetishist if I seek out the same traits in another girl? I just wanted to talk about this. Thanks for hearing me out.

 

[JimmyJones]

This gave me some inner strife and doubt if I am bi or what the deal may be. Everything was feminine and there was nothing masculine about her at all. Would I be labeled a fetishist if I seek out the same traits in another girl? I just wanted to talk about this. Thanks for hearing me out.

It all boils down to the age old question, “Are traps gay?”

But on a serious note, what do you mean by seeking out the same traits in another girl? You said this person was feminine? So you want to seek out feminine traits in other females?

Seems like you’re a bit mindfucked about firing into a transexual?

 

[Shouta]

This gave me some inner strife and doubt if I am bi or what the deal may be. Everything was feminine and there was nothing masculine about her at all. Does that make me a "chaser" to some? I didn't deliberately know. What if this happens again? Would I be labeled a fetishist if I seek out the same traits in another girl? I just wanted to talk about this. Thanks for hearing me out.

You're straight, assuming you're a guy, since you were attracted to her and her feminine qualities. It's hard to get the mind around initially but what you're attracted is more about characteristics than sex and/or genitals. That's not to say the latter doesn't play a part in that equation but it's more of a modifier than the prime determining factor. I'm sure you should be able to figure out the reasoning behind this. If you have trouble though, I can write something out a bit more elaborate.

 

[JimmyJones]

You're straight, assuming you're a guy, since you were attracted to her and her feminine qualities.

Debatable.

 

[Shouta]

Debatable.

I'm not sure if you're serious or joking.

 

[7echnicolor]

Perception is 9/10ths of reality though... you can't take it personally if someone doesn't share the same perception about you that you have about yourself. I certainly can understand why some would say it's rude but allowing it to emotionally damage you is a serious problem that only you can fix, you can't expect society to comply. I suggest seeing a therapist if pronouns actually bother you that much, as it may be indicative of much deeper psychological issues that have nothing to do with your sex/gender...

Haha yeah dude words and language mean nothing and that’s why if someone called you the wrong name for the entire time you knew them you wouldn’t think it was weird, awkward, or mean at all.

 

[yeahokaywhatever]

It all boils down to the age old question, “Are traps gay?”

But on a serious note, what do you mean by seeking out the same traits in another girl? You said this person was feminine? So you want to seek out feminine traits in other females?

Seems like you’re a bit mindfucked about firing into a transexual?

I didn't explain myself so well there, so I apologize. It threw me in for a loop and I am concerned about possibly being lied to or set up under false pretenses again. By the way, I never have thought of a male in any sort of sexual manner. I am straight, so this was a shock to me. And I don't mean to be crass, but if you saw her, you would think she was born a woman.

I'm not sure if you're serious or joking.

I guess the "trap" joke is coming into play here.

 

[brap]

Perception is 9/10ths of reality though... you can't take it personally if someone doesn't share the same perception about you that you have about yourself. I certainly can understand why some would say it's rude but allowing it to emotionally damage you is a serious problem that only you can fix, you can't expect society to comply. I suggest seeing a therapist if pronouns actually bother you that much, as it may be indicative of much deeper psychological issues that have nothing to do with your sex/gender...

I don't get this line of thinking. If it looks like a girl why not call it a girl? Now if you look like a 6'4 bodybuilder in a dress with shitty makeup I get your point.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I don't get this line of thinking. If it looks like a girl why not call it a girl? Now if you look like a 6'4 bodybuilder in a dress with shitty makeup I get your point.

I agree with that and feel the same in general, but sometimes things get confusing. Like RuPaul, he is often referred to as he in both male and female looks, it's kinda confusing to me.
The whole new pronouns thing only adds more confusion, and what the community needs is clarity. More confusion will only fuel the haters.

 

[entremet]

Good to see this thread in the OT. I still like GAF, but was concerned at some transphobia I've seen here at times. Ailynn has the patience of a saint.

 

[Shouta]

I didn't explain myself so well there, so I apologize. It threw me in for a loop and I am concerned about possibly being lied to or set up under false pretenses again. By the way, I never have thought of a male in any sort of sexual manner. I am straight, so this was a shock to me. And I don't mean to be crass, but if you saw her, you would think she was born a woman.


I guess the "trap" joke is coming into play here.

Probably, but I'd like to give the benefit of a doubt.

On your concern, is it really about the information not being divulged to you or is it about how you feel in regards to their situation? I have a feeling it's a bit more on the latter than the former and if that's the case, all you can do is to become more comfortable with your own thought processes and open your horizons in regards to how you look at things. If it's really about information not being told to you, then you kind of have to accept it. Even if you were dating a woman who was born as one, there are things she wouldn't tell you on a first date as well for any number of reasons. I mean, don't you have things that you'd be hesitant to tell someone until you're comfortable with them?

 

[Ailynn]

Perception is 9/10ths of reality though... you can't take it personally if someone doesn't share the same perception about you that you have about yourself. I certainly can understand why some would say it's rude but allowing it to emotionally damage you is a serious problem that only you can fix, you can't expect society to comply. I suggest seeing a therapist if pronouns actually bother you that much, as it may be indicative of much deeper psychological issues that have nothing to do with your sex/gender...

It took me a while (as I was always such a self-critical person before), but I did finally gain a thicker skin. While the vast majority of my friends and loved ones accept me as a trans woman and always refer to me with feminine pronouns, I had to learn to accept that there are a handful of people I love dearly who may only ever address me with masculine pronouns and my old name. It still pains me to hear those things, but I know they aren't doing it for unsympathetic reasons...it's just that all my life they knew me as the mask I portrayed, and it is understandably hard for them to adjust. I also know that some people may still occasionally misgender me accidentally, and it's okay. I understand it may be difficult at times, and I never get mad at anyone for it.

What I was talking about before is when someone purposely does it because they know it is hurtful, or because they don't care about being rude. I have many stories where a public service provider did this to me early in my transition, and at a time where I was already nervous to be out in public at all, their callous behavior had caused me to go through panic attacks and not want to leave my house for a few days at a time. Still, for every rude person I had to deal with, I am now thankful I went through those negative experiences...as it eventually helped me become a stronger and more independent person. However, it really hurts my heart when I hear stories from trans friends who go through these similar experiences, or when so many have even been abandoned by their own families.

The kind of behavior I mean is the type where, say...you as a man (I'm assuming) had someone who would purposely be calling you "Miss" or similar feminine pronouns, or perhaps a feminine form of your name...just to irritate you. Perhaps calling you f@gg0t or other pejoratives simply to get a rise out of you or belittle you in some way. Things like that. As Shouta and 7 7echnicolor spoke about, hearing things like that all your life can often eventually damage someone's emotional well-being and sense of self.

I don't know where to post this, really. So, if I'm out of line or if it seems I am using the wrong terms, please... let me know and hear me out or feel free to delete. I met a great gal a while back ago. We had mutual friends, everyone referred to her with a female pronoun and we hung out and eventually dated. But whenever we'd make out, she would get distant and nervous after a while. I asked her what was wrong and she said she was having her period, felt self-conscious and didn't want to go any further but proceeded to take the lead in other aspects. Cool, I respected and understood that. A while later, she wanted to have sex, but gave me the same line about her period and asked if I could do anal instead of vaginal. Afterwards she cried and told me we had to talk. I thought she was cheating on me or had some sort of sexual trauma. She confessed she was transitioning into a female and liked me and didn't want to lie to me. I didn't know how to react. I wasn't violently angry, but was taken aback. The only thing I could say is: "How would you have felt if I lied to you about something about myself?" Later on we talked and were working things out. There were no signs that I would've known about her past and later on our friends confessed what she told me after the fact and she up and left town due to family issues, calling me crying telling me that she was sorry.

I told her she didn't have to apologize so much, and that all was forgiven. I genuinely liked her, we still keep in touch and things are going well for her but has to take care of her family. This gave me some inner strife and doubt if I am bi or what the deal may be. Everything was feminine and there was nothing masculine about her at all. Does that make me a "chaser" to some? I didn't deliberately know. What if this happens again? Would I be labeled a fetishist if I seek out the same traits in another girl? I just wanted to talk about this. Thanks for hearing me out.

Thank you for sharing your story! You are without a doubt straight, as it was her femininity that attracted you to her. The attractions you both experienced were chemically heterosexual, as a trans woman usually has high levels of estrogen, and are capable of emitting out female pheromones just as any straight woman would be while being attracted to male pheromones. A couple of male friends and I have experienced this, where pre-transition there would have been absolutely no attraction whatsoever.

Don't worry, I see no evidence that you should ever be perceived as a 'chaser.' I understand how both of you feel, and I'm sorry it didn't work out between you. Thank you for being kind to her, and I hope you both go on to find the perfect partner who makes each of you very happy.

Good to see this thread in the OT. I still like GAF, but was concerned at some transphobia I've seen here at times. Ailynn has the patience of a saint.

Thank you so much! It takes a lot to make me angry at other people, but I sure used to get angry at myself a lot. (I'm doing much better now!)

I feel that if we continuously show love toward others even when they are insensitive or hurtful toward us, empathy and a shared understanding can take hold. I truly believe new friends can be made even in the unlikeliest of places.

 

[BANGS]

It's not hurting them because they might have a problem, it's what's causing the problem. People are affected by what is said to them and repeatedly being exposed to certain things can change the emotional well-being of someone. Verbal abuse by parents is a huge cause of problems that children may develop later in life because their view is being shaped by that negativity. It can happen in healthy adults too eventually. Get told your trash day in and day out at work and at home then follow it up with a few failures and even steadfast person will begin to have their views warped.

Well yeah negativity and abuse are awful obviously I was just talking about people who see you differently, not in a bad way and berate you for it....

Haha yeah dude words and language mean nothing and that’s why if someone called you the wrong name for the entire time you knew them you wouldn’t think it was weird, awkward, or mean at all.

It certainly could be a mix of all three, that doesn't mean it should be hurting you so emotionally though, that's unhealthy. If they take it steps further like the above mentioned than obviously that's a very different scenario...

I don't get this line of thinking. If it looks like a girl why not call it a girl? Now if you look like a 6'4 bodybuilder in a dress with shitty makeup I get your point.

Well yeah, when you can perceive someone as how they perceive themselves, you're gonna be on the same page. I'm specifically talking about the large bodybuilder asking to be called "miss" or the little girl asking to be called "sir" is when you'll have communication problems. And what I'm suggesting is that is all you should take it as, a communication problem, and not actually take it personally to where you feel dehumanized or anything like that. It's just hard for everyone else to see you as how you see yourself, and that's okay...

It took me a while (as I was always such a self-critical person before), but I did finally gain a thicker skin. While the vast majority of my friends and loved ones accept me as a trans woman and always refer to me with feminine pronouns, I had to learn to accept that there are a handful of people I love dearly who may only ever address me with masculine pronouns and my old name. It still pains me to hear those things, but I know they aren't doing it for unsympathetic reasons...it's just that all my life they knew me as the mask I portrayed, and it is understandably hard for them to adjust. I also know that some people may still occasionally misgender me accidentally, and it's okay. I understand it may be difficult at times, and I never get mad at anyone for it.

What I was talking about before is when someone purposely does it because they know it is hurtful, or because they don't care about being rude. I have many stories where a public service provider did this to me early in my transition, and at a time where I was already nervous to be out in public at all, their callous behavior had caused me to go through panic attacks and not want to leave my house for a few days at a time. Still, for every rude person I had to deal with, I am now thankful I went through those negative experiences...as it eventually helped me become a stronger and more independent person. However, it really hurts my heart when I hear stories from trans friends who go through these similar experiences, or when so many have even been abandoned by their own families.

The kind of behavior I mean is the type where, say...you as a man (I'm assuming) had someone who would purposely be calling you "Miss" or similar feminine pronouns, or perhaps a feminine form of your name...just to irritate you. Perhaps calling you f@gg0t or other pejoratives simply to get a rise out of you or belittle you in some way. Things like that. As Shouta and 7 7echnicolor spoke about, hearing things like that all your life can often eventually damage someone's emotional well-being and sense of self.

We're on the same page here, glad to hear it! We had a miscommunication I guess when you said purposefully. People can purposefully say it but if they're doing it to be a dick then that's where it crosses the line...

 

[Rajack]

Debatable.

Not even close to debatable. If she identifies on the feminine spectrum and appears female, and you're attracted to her you are straight. End of story and debate. If you don't see it that way then you are being transmisogynistic and gross.

 

[BANGS]

Not even close to debatable. If she identifies on the feminine spectrum and appears female, and you're attracted to her you are straight. End of story and debate. If you don't see it that way then you are being transmisogynistic and gross.

Unless you are specifically attracted to a woman with male genitals... then there's certainly some debate to be had there...

 

[Dunki]

The term Transsexual is a gross and derogatory term that should never be used. EVER. Like seriously, don't use it.

Sorry to step in but why. In Germany it is the normal definition as well. It is used in documentaries, TV reports etc. What is so offensive about it?

 

[yeahokaywhatever]

Probably, but I'd like to give the benefit of a doubt.

On your concern, is it really about the information not being divulged to you or is it about how you feel in regards to their situation? I have a feeling it's a bit more on the latter than the former and if that's the case, all you can do is to become more comfortable with your own thought processes and open your horizons in regards to how you look at things. If it's really about information not being told to you, then you kind of have to accept it. Even if you were dating a woman who was born as one, there are things she wouldn't tell you on a first date as well for any number of reasons. I mean, don't you have things that you'd be hesitant to tell someone until you're comfortable with them?

That's a fair assessment. I suppose that it was keeping a secret such as that away from me and to be fair, that is a pretty important thing to tell someone. I was struggling with it, but I do not regret the experience and there's a lot of insight offered by many people here and I'm quite grateful for all of it. I'm glad it happened. We both still talk about it and joke around now, so we connected over the whole experience.

It took me a while (as I was always such a self-critical person before), but I did finally gain a thicker skin. While the vast majority of my friends and loved ones accept me as a trans woman and always refer to me with feminine pronouns, I had to learn to accept that there are a handful of people I love dearly who may only ever address me with masculine pronouns and my old name. It still pains me to hear those things, but I know they aren't doing it for unsympathetic reasons...it's just that all my life they knew me as the mask I portrayed, and it is understandably hard for them to adjust. I also know that some people may still occasionally misgender me accidentally, and it's okay. I understand it may be difficult at times, and I never get mad at anyone for it.

What I was talking about before is when someone purposely does it because they know it is hurtful, or because they don't care about being rude. I have many stories where a public service provider did this to me early in my transition, and at a time where I was already nervous to be out in public at all, their callous behavior had caused me to go through panic attacks and not want to leave my house for a few days at a time. Still, for every rude person I had to deal with, I am now thankful I went through those negative experiences...as it eventually helped me become a stronger and more independent person. However, it really hurts my heart when I hear stories from trans friends who go through these similar experiences, or when so many have even been abandoned by their own families.

The kind of behavior I mean is the type where, say...you as a man (I'm assuming) had someone who would purposely be calling you "Miss" or similar feminine pronouns, or perhaps a feminine form of your name...just to irritate you. Perhaps calling you f@gg0t or other pejoratives simply to get a rise out of you or belittle you in some way. Things like that. As Shouta and 7 7echnicolor spoke about, hearing things like that all your life can often eventually damage someone's emotional well-being and sense of self.




Thank you for sharing your story! You are without a doubt straight, as it was her femininity that attracted you to her. The attractions you both experienced were chemically heterosexual, as a trans woman usually has high levels of estrogen, and are capable of emitting out female pheromones just as any straight woman would be while being attracted to male pheromones. A couple of male friends and I have experienced this, where pre-transition there would have been absolutely no attraction whatsoever.

Don't worry, I see no evidence that you should ever be perceived as a 'chaser.' I understand how both of you feel, and I'm sorry it didn't work out between you. Thank you for being kind to her, and I hope you both go on to find the perfect partner who makes each of you very happy.




Thank you so much! It takes a lot to make me angry at other people, but I sure used to get angry at myself a lot. (I'm doing much better now!)

I feel that if we continuously show love toward others even when they are insensitive or hurtful toward us, empathy and a shared understanding can take hold. I truly believe new friends can be made even in the unlikeliest of places.

Thank you for that! We're both still friends and talk daily and we bonded over the experience. I had no idea about the pheromones but it makes sense. I apologize if I sounded ignorant, but didn't know how to express myself correctly. Thank you so much for all your help!

 

[It's Jeff]

It took me a while (as I was always such a self-critical person before), but I did finally gain a thicker skin. While the vast majority of my friends and loved ones accept me as a trans woman and always refer to me with feminine pronouns, I had to learn to accept that there are a handful of people I love dearly who may only ever address me with masculine pronouns and my old name. It still pains me to hear those things, but I know they aren't doing it for unsympathetic reasons...it's just that all my life they knew me as the mask I portrayed, and it is understandably hard for them to adjust. I also know that some people may still occasionally misgender me accidentally, and it's okay. I understand it may be difficult at times, and I never get mad at anyone for it.

What I was talking about before is when someone purposely does it because they know it is hurtful, or because they don't care about being rude. I have many stories where a public service provider did this to me early in my transition, and at a time where I was already nervous to be out in public at all, their callous behavior had caused me to go through panic attacks and not want to leave my house for a few days at a time. Still, for every rude person I had to deal with, I am now thankful I went through those negative experiences...as it eventually helped me become a stronger and more independent person. However, it really hurts my heart when I hear stories from trans friends who go through these similar experiences, or when so many have even been abandoned by their own families.

The kind of behavior I mean is the type where, say...you as a man (I'm assuming) had someone who would purposely be calling you "Miss" or similar feminine pronouns, or perhaps a feminine form of your name...just to irritate you. Perhaps calling you f@gg0t or other pejoratives simply to get a rise out of you or belittle you in some way. Things like that. As Shouta and 7 7echnicolor spoke about, hearing things like that all your life can often eventually damage someone's emotional well-being and sense of self.




Thank you for sharing your story! You are without a doubt straight, as it was her femininity that attracted you to her. The attractions you both experienced were chemically heterosexual, as a trans woman usually has high levels of estrogen, and are capable of emitting out female pheromones just as any straight woman would be while being attracted to male pheromones. A couple of male friends and I have experienced this, where pre-transition there would have been absolutely no attraction whatsoever.

Don't worry, I see no evidence that you should ever be perceived as a 'chaser.' I understand how both of you feel, and I'm sorry it didn't work out between you. Thank you for being kind to her, and I hope you both go on to find the perfect partner who makes each of you very happy.




Thank you so much! It takes a lot to make me angry at other people, but I sure used to get angry at myself a lot. (I'm doing much better now!)

I feel that if we continuously show love toward others even when they are insensitive or hurtful toward us, empathy and a shared understanding can take hold. I truly believe new friends can be made even in the unlikeliest of places.

I wish I could give this post more than one thumb up. This vision of tolerance against the wave of rising, polarizing militancy is refreshing. Many thanks!

 

[7echnicolor]

It certainly could be a mix of all three, that doesn't mean it should be hurting you so emotionally though, that's unhealthy. If they take it steps further like the above mentioned than obviously that's a very different scenario...

Yeah, I bet you've never been hurt by the words anyone has ever said either to you or to someone close to you, ever. This explains so much.

 

[JimmyJones]

Not even close to debatable. If she identifies on the feminine spectrum and appears female, and you're attracted to her you are straight. End of story and debate. If you don't see it that way then you are being transmisogynistic and gross.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[SecretSphere]

I'm still confused sometimes by the term 'gender' and its separation with 'sex'. Is gender a social construct or a biological thing? Because if gender is a social construct that is thought to children from a young age, how can a person that grew up to be a boy/man become a woman? The person mostly learned how to behave and act like a boy, is treated as a boy since birth. You would expect that, if what it is to be a boy is learned, they would have a hard time to know what it is to be a girl/woman, because they never learned that.

On the other hand, if gender is something biological, how is it seperated from sex? Because a person with a male body with male chromosomes can sometimes actually be a woman, without physically knowing what it is like to be a woman. Where is that gender thing and how does it develop? Is it something you would expect to identify at newborn babies in the future? Is transgenderism determined at birth? Is there something objective to look at to see if somebody is transgender or not? And if there is not such a thing, how do you diffentiate between somebody that actually is a transgender person and somebody who thinks is a transgender person (but is actually not).

Sorry if some of the questions are ignorant or rude, I'll fully admit I'm quite ignorant at this topic, but I want to learn. (also, English is not my first language)

 

[BANGS]

Yeah, I bet you've never been hurt by the words anyone has ever said either to you or to someone close to you, ever. This explains so much.

Not by words not specifically meant to hurt me, no I haven't...

 

[Shouta]

I'm still confused sometimes by the term 'gender' and its separation with 'sex'. Is gender a social construct or a biological thing? Because if gender is a social construct that is thought to children from a young age, how can a person that grew up to be a boy/man become a woman? The person mostly learned how to behave and act like a boy, is treated as a boy since birth. You would expect that, if what it is to be a boy is learned, they would have a hard time to know what it is to be a girl/woman, because they never learned that.

On the other hand, if gender is something biological, how is it seperated from sex? Because a person with a male body with male chromosomes can sometimes actually be a woman, without physically knowing what it is like to be a woman. Where is that gender thing and how does it develop? Is it something you would expect to identify at newborn babies in the future? Is transgenderism determined at birth? Is there something objective to look at to see if somebody is transgender or not? And if there is not such a thing, how do you diffentiate between somebody that actually is a transgender person and somebody who thinks is a transgender person (but is actually not).

Sorry if some of the questions are ignorant or rude, I'll fully admit I'm quite ignorant at this topic, but I want to learn. (also, English is not my first language)

Gender is about a person's perception of themselves where sex is about the physical and/or genetic aspects of a person. They're referring to separate aspects, typically. Gender can be something biological and can be separate from sex. Since it's about how a person identifies themselves, the brain would be likely involved in that case.

As to whether gender is a social construct or a biological one? I don't know. I'm not versed in the arguments so I can't really help you there.

 

[brap]

Well yeah, when you can perceive someone as how they perceive themselves, you're gonna be on the same page. I'm specifically talking about the large bodybuilder asking to be called "miss" or the little girl asking to be called "sir" is when you'll have communication problems. And what I'm suggesting is that is all you should take it as, a communication problem, and not actually take it personally to where you feel dehumanized or anything like that. It's just hard for everyone else to see you as how you see yourself, and that's okay...

I got you

 

[I'm new be nice]

You look great! Oh, and yes...hiding beard stubble is incredibly difficult, and I honestly never found a way to do it perfectly. Having dark hair and very fair skin, it wasn't until I went through nearly $3000 worth of laser hair removal and electrolysis over the past 3 years that I finally can go out in public without fear of anyone seeing the tiniest hint of beard shadow under my skin. Hormone replacement therapy halts the growth of body hair usually within the first year, but it never stops beard growth. It's one of the biggest struggles that trans women have to deal with.

Thanks a lot! : )

About 10 years ago I had actually gone down to a Laser Hair Removal center to get an estimate (and some dubious stares from the woman I spoke to) about general hair removal, and it was about 10,000 dollars at the time. I experimented with a lot of different Hair Removal solutions, even bought a 500 dollar home laser kit (which actually does work decently, but for my hair growth would take a very long time due to the size of the laser head). I've basically settled on Epilation, followed by a daily routine of properly exfoliating my skin.

But generally speaking i'm okay with a little stubble anyways, and the Makeup definitely did the trick for my purposes! Ultimately I do have a certain pride in my Masculinity regardless of my more prominent Feminine traits, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I agree with that and feel the same in general, but sometimes things get confusing. Like RuPaul, he is often referred to as he in both male and female looks, it's kinda confusing to me.
The whole new pronouns thing only adds more confusion, and what the community needs is clarity. More confusion will only fuel the haters.

I'm probably a prime candidate for the whole Ze Zir thing, but it just seems ridiculous to me. I primarily identify with more Feminine Traits, but I stick to what I was born as... because that's what I was born as and aside from some light Anti Androgens i'm not on Estrogen. Also, why should I have to make up a new gender? What the heck is wrong with a guy being Feminine? It all just seems silly to me. But for the sake of the Community I'd like to try to keep the floor open to someone who might identify as that, as there may be some perspective or angle to it all that I am missing. But I haven't met a single person who does identify like that.

I can't really speak to the whole RuPaul thing since I don't follow the whole Drag Queen thing. I have a buddy who just loves that stuff, and my eyes glaze over it like i'm being forced to watch The Bachelor/Bachelorette. I had always just thought it was like having a stage name.

Speaking of which this is a good chance for me to post my pictures from when I got to see Courtney!

My one friend (whose face I shall block out) loves that stuff and had VIP tickets so I got a picture with her. We were drinking WAY too much, and she totally got on our wavelength haha. It was a lot of fun.

I'd never seen that place more packed. Drag Queens really do a great job of bringing the Community together!

It took me a while (as I was always such a self-critical person before), but I did finally gain a thicker skin. While the vast majority of my friends and loved ones accept me as a trans woman and always refer to me with feminine pronouns, I had to learn to accept that there are a handful of people I love dearly who may only ever address me with masculine pronouns and my old name. It still pains me to hear those things, but I know they aren't doing it for unsympathetic reasons...it's just that all my life they knew me as the mask I portrayed, and it is understandably hard for them to adjust. I also know that some people may still occasionally misgender me accidentally, and it's okay. I understand it may be difficult at times, and I never get mad at anyone for it.

Yeah like there are people in my family who don't accept me, but you just kind of have to learn to leave them be. You can't force people to accept you, all you can do is live your life to the best of your abilities and hope one day they come around.

 

[mantidor]

I'm glad about this thread, and I'm glad at the T representation, in the past there was very little, mostly because there was a separate trans thread, and honestly I was kind of terrified to engage there, and with a few of the comments here I see why it became isolated and a bit hostile. I already want to to reply to at least three topics here but they do really deserve their own threads, which I won't make right now because I'm tired

 

[I'm new be nice]

I'm glad about this thread, and I'm glad at the T representation, in the past there was very little, mostly because there was a separate trans thread, and honestly I was kind of terrified to engage there, and with a few of the comments here I see why it became isolated and a bit hostile. I already want to to reply to at least three topics here but they do really deserve their own threads, which I won't make right now because I'm tired

I know what you mean, I used to feel very intimidated by the previous LGBT+ Community and never really participated, and i'm a pretty out there kind of guy lol

Your questions are more than welcome here my dude, all I ask is that you be respectful, and from the way you've posted here I suspect you'll be fine!

I'm even generally okay with this kind of thing to an extent:

I am straight, heterosexual, I do not care what you do in your bed, that is your own business, but since I firmly stand by my belief that there are only two genders, I will only use "he" and "she" to refer to members of the LGBT community, and that only based on their biological sex.

Do not wish to aggrevate anyone by saying this, but this is my view on the matter and it is unchanging.

The only real issue I have with this, personally, is that they left their "view on the matter [unchanging]", which leaves nothing for us to talk about.

You know? Like, the thing about discussions, I think, is that you don't even necessarily have to change the person's mind right then and there. Sometimes all you need to do is plant a seed, or an idea, in their mind, and over time their views may change as they get exposed to other ideas and start to make more connections.

If you come into the thread stating your view is unchanging it's literally not a discussion, and that's not what forums are for. Go picket on the streets at that point, your mind is entirely closed. Remember my OP?

The only requirements for posting are an Open Mind and an Open Heart.

Enygger_Tzu clearly did not remember! But that's okay! I forgive you Eny!

Beyond that, my interests lay more towards general culture and good times, just having fun and shit, so that's what most of my posts will mainly focus on. I've got a ton of topics I want to get to, but there's no need to do it all at once. And I really don't think you can avoid the politics of LGBT+ so i'm more than mindful and accepting of the fact that people want to discuss things that are highly important to them in that regard.

And based on my previous attempt at a LGBT+ equivalent Community; having Straight people participate in the discussion is highly important to me, as I feel a militant separation of ourselves is extremely harmful for everyone. That means we have to open ourselves up from time to time to potentially hurtful remarks, but us LGBT+ folk are far stronger than you guys may realize! Probably stronger than you wussy Straight people, since we've been forged in fire!

Anyways, yeah lol, speak your mind dude!

 

[pimentel1]

@I’m new be nice. You’re a pretty cool person.

I know what you mean, I used to feel very intimidated by the previous LGBT+ Community and never really participated, and i'm a pretty out there kind of guy lol

Your questions are more than welcome here my dude, all I ask is that you be respectful, and from the way you've posted here I suspect you'll be fine!

I'm even generally okay with this kind of thing to an extent:

The only real issue I have with this, personally, is that they left their "view on the matter [unchanging]", which leaves nothing for us to talk about.

You know? Like, the thing about discussions, I think, is that you don't even necessarily have to change the person's mind right then and there. Sometimes all you need to do is plant a seed, or an idea, in their mind, and over time their views may change as they get exposed to other ideas and start to make more connections.

If you come into the thread stating your view is unchanging it's literally not a discussion, and that's not what forums are for. Go picket on the streets at that point, your mind is entirely closed. Remember my OP?

Enygger_Tzu clearly did not remember! But that's okay! I forgive you Eny!

Beyond that, my interests lay more towards general culture and good times, just having fun and shit, so that's what most of my posts will mainly focus on. I've got a ton of topics I want to get to, but there's no need to do it all at once. And I really don't think you can avoid the politics of LGBT+ so i'm more than mindful and accepting of the fact that people want to discuss things that are highly important to them in that regard.

And based on my previous attempt at a LGBT+ equivalent Community; having Straight people participate in the discussion is highly important to me, as I feel a militant separation of ourselves is extremely harmful for everyone. That means we have to open ourselves up from time to time to potentially hurtful remarks, but us LGBT+ folk are far stronger than you guys may realize! Probably stronger than you wussy Straight people, since we've been forged in fire!

Anyways, yeah lol, speak your mind dude!