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LGBTQIA+ :)OT6(: We’re taking over -- first the alphabet, then the world!

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G

garyBig

Member
Mr_Zombie said:
I think the real problem is that those three terms: gay, straight and bisexual require you to choose a side: you're either only sexually attracted to men or women, or are equally attracted to both genders. Nothing in-between, since then, as you suggested, those people should be put into the "questioning" category which means they are simply undecided/unsure - something that I feel is a really harmful concept. And given how bisexuals are pestered by both straight and gays (something that I find really weird - we're already a minority that has to deal with bigotry, we should know better not to oppress a minority within our group), it's easy to see why many feel the need to chose a side and stick to it no matter what.

That's why I prefer the Kinsey scale - it feels much more natural since it's more fluid and gives you more options. It doesn't force you to declare either "I love dicks" or "I love both dicks and vags", it also allows you to say: "Generally I love dicks, but there are few vags that do attract me".
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True, but unrealistic to expect the gay pride marches to walk in groups of Kinsey ranges. Also, I personally don't feel that the label 'gay' prohibits me from being more flexible than the term would literally allow for.
'Straight' seems a different story, and 'bisexual' is used for everything other than 1000% straight, so I guess it's just like the game review scales where 8 means bad and 0-5 don't exist. It's all screwed up really, but if we say bisexual covers everything between the extremes, we would almost all have to subscribe to the bisexual label. I mean, it explains the high figure for bisexuality and it obviously explains why many people feel a lot more comfortable 'hiding' behind the super-ambiguousness the term offers. But honestly, it also helps to explain the hostility and offendedness of those who're totally pro-labels (by which I mean binary gay/straight) and feel comfortable with that choice of identification.

Furthermore, the sheer insanity of trying to emulate the Kinsey scale with a plethora of labels instead feels so hollow in consideration that I'm almost wondering why this very thread title promotes using labels.
I mean, labels exist for basic orientation, it totally gives you a rough idea of what is meant, that's a valid function.
But, honestly, I myself feel a bit silly now for saying I'm gay because if 'bisexual' is used as a Joker and a 'catch all', I feel left out of all the options that apparently come with the magical 'bisexuality' label and I feel invited to think that the sheer mass identifying as bisexual looks down upon those who seem to not believe in their own flexibility and Kinsey-scaleness. I believe in the Kinsey-scale, so logically I should add myself to the bisexuals. But we can't possibly all be bisexuals, that would be the peak of labeling-insanity.

I don't know, but at least I guess I get now how it's possible for a minority group to shame others within. They think 'bisexuals' take the easy way out. Which is true, actually. But (to refer to the shoutings of that angry insecure woman) it's certainly not true of those who march the designated bisexual-group at Gay Pride because nobody would do that who's not actually attracted to both sexes. (Which -full disclaimer- has not much to do with all of my ramblings about labels here, people who're attracted to both are as welcome as every other Kinsey-number ever, but yeah I admit to feeling that they deserve the label more than others, and this inevitably leads to the idea of 'privilege' coming up and feelings being hurt and well... it leads to people being unhappy because of labels. But yeah, when was that not true?)


Edit: Plus, you're right with Questioning. It seems to imply that sooner or later you have to take sides other than Q, because Q cannot be a permanent state. (I always interpreted it as 'undecided' in the sense of 'at the moment I refuse to decide/categorize myself with inadequate labels, but I see how this can be easily interpreted less friendly. Still, even the Q is in our title.
But anyway, to conclude: I personally don't have much of a problem with labels, but I see how it leads to conflicts like that)
 
K

Kevyt

Member
Well time to pass out on ice cream while watching random films on Netflix thinking about my crush after seeing him very happy with his new gf...

n1rNoAA.gif


I hope y'all are having a wonderful valentines. :)
 
G

garyBig

Member
Dead Prince said:
are you sure it's his gf and not just his sister?
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Fuck this happened to me once at my sister's wedding. He was some cousin of her husband or something like that and he spent all evening dancing and having fun / playing around with this small and sweet pretty girl. He was cute and I was sure she was his gf.

Much later I learned not only that he's gay (!) but that she was like his 13 or 14 year old (!) sister!

Well, what can I say... girls these days ha ;)
 
W

WonderzL

Banned
Theory of Everything is just... RIP me
Kinsei said:
It's just that GAF is the only place I was ever comfortable enough in to come out. To have a bunch of people here calling me a man really got to me (hence all of the insults).



I am. I'm currently on the 3 star quests wondering whether or not to make a new armor set. I'm still using level 1 Derring (starter) armor.



One of the best shows ever made. Make sure you watch Angel alongside it once you start Season 4 http://buffyfest.blogspot.ca/2009/04/buffyangel-episode-watching-guide.html
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Stay strong, please!! :( If that's what you really want, do it. But you'll always have people on this forum who will support you.
 
G

Golnei

Member
Escape Goat said:
At least you wont get pregnant.
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Though you should probably be careful about accidental whole-body mitosis, it can be remarkably messy if you're not prepared for it.

Mr_Zombie said:
That's why I prefer the Kinsey scale - it feels much more natural since it's more fluid and gives you more options. It doesn't force you to declare either "I love dicks" or "I love both dicks and vags", it also allows you to say: "Generally I love dicks, but there are few vags that do attract me".
Click to expand...

And even then, those are categories that directly equate gender to sex. Though I agree that purity is absolutely a toxic concept when it comes to orientation, and the fact that concepts like the 'gold-star lesbian' can exist show that the binary nature of those labels can only be harmful when applied to the fluid and imprecise nature of human preferences and experience.
 
R

RM8

Member
Well, no, I still don't see how "get off the fence" or bisexuality "being a problem" make any sense. Because why the heck would anyone care!? If someone is using the label to eventually come out as gay, then I'd say it's actually useful. But regardless, it's stupid to even consider it because, well, bi people exist.
 
C

CornBurrito

Member
Golnei said:
Though you should probably be careful about accidental whole-body mitosis, it can be remarkably messy if you're not prepared for it.



And even then, those are categories that directly equate gender to sex. Though I agree that purity is absolutely a toxic concept when it comes to orientation, and the fact that concepts like the 'gold-star lesbian' can exist show that the binary nature of those labels can only be harmful when applied to the fluid and imprecise nature of human preferences and experience.
Click to expand...

I've heard of "gold star lesbian" but I've actually never heard of "gold star gay." Is it because gay men don't care as much?
 
G

garyBig

Member
RM8 said:
Well, no, I still don't see how "get off the fence" or bisexuality "being a problem" make any sense. Because why the heck would anyone care!? If someone is using the label to eventually come out as gay, then I'd say it's actually useful. But regardless, it's stupid to even consider it because, well, bi people exist.
Click to expand...

Well it makes sense when you have people who don't primarily identify as lgbt but as e.g. gay outright. In that case you have a group with 'members' and 'non-members'. Human nature in these cases inevitably lead to situations where having sex with a girl after your coming out as gay may be considered a 'treason' of sorts to some people who take this my-group-your-group thing too seriously for whatever reason (there are quite many reasons people do this actually) and have you lose your membership.

This line of groupist-thinking added with the entirely unjustified but widespread and socially perpetuated notion of 'not even think bisexuality exists' and I don't see how this is any surprising.

It makes sense in terms of how these things work, and as I outlined above, the 'bisexuality' label is also especially prone to fall victim to these dynamics.
 
R

RM8

Member
That's profoundly stupid and should be pointed out and shamed. Treason? Group thinking? How about letting people do whatever they want to do? I thought that was the whole point. Such attitude is no better than regular homophobia, really.
 
G

garyBig

Member
RM8 said:
That's profoundly stupid and should be pointed out and shamed. Treason? Group thinking? How about letting people do whatever they want to do? I thought that was the whole point. Such attitude is no better than regular homophobia, really.
Click to expand...

Oh yes hell it is. I can't fathom how one who knows he's faced with narrow-mindedness and discrimination from a minority group can think of people in such binary terms.
But when you think about it, realizing you're gay may lead either to the personal conclusion that straightness is not as universal as old majority might have you think and hence no kind of sexuality is beyond plausibility and that sexuality is a fluid concept --OR you might draw the misguided conclusion that there is the straight majority and the people who are like you hence only 2 sorts with nothing inbetween and not even a gradience of any kind.

It's depressing but it's always depressing when people fail to realize that every human being is different, everything is relative with almost no absolutes and that EVERY individual can be empathized with if you try hard enough and that everyone just wants to live his or her (or neither^^) life in peace.

But after millenia of human history, it's wishful thinking to think that everyone becomes enlightened and universally tolerant and respectful all by his/her own realization. Instead, you have lots of unhealthy phenomena of institutionalized group-thinking with religion, nationalism, racism, homophobia and from there all the hegemonic power dynamics and discrimination of minority culture in general.


It can only be attempted to better society sloowly by means of raising awareness and educating people in didactic and non-didactic ways. It's one of the most important reasons for why I want to be a teacher.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
The presents I bought for my girlfriend are randomly out for delivery today. Perfect timing :)

An amiibo, some astroglide, and a dildo. She's guessed them all already lol ;_;
 
B

Bladenic

Member
That guy I been talking to wanted to cook me dinner today, so sweet. Except I have work 3-11, so we had to do lunch, but then work called me at 11:45 and I had to go in 2 and a half hours early.

Moral of the story is never answer when work calls.
 
H

Henchmen21

Banned
PANTHEON said:
happy anna howard shaw valentines anna howard shaw day

you can be your own valentine hot stuff

BxtdiM2.gif


thats how i do it
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That's just adorable.

Kater said:
Love is in the air.

tumblr_inline_njrk2zJWTJ1rytibt.png


:p


Oral sex has to be really exhausting though, just on your own. :/
Click to expand...

Some people (lucky people) are very flexible.

TheAbsolution said:
Y know Kater, now since I've heard your voice, I read all of your posts in your Austrian accent. :p
Click to expand...

Aww did I miss a chance to hear Kater?
 
K

Kevyt

Member
Dead Prince said:
are you sure it's his gf and not just his sister?
Click to expand...

The girl was not his sister.

Via Purifico said:
n514de7585cdf7.gif


It will be alright.
Click to expand...

Uh hmmm.

Bo said:
The presents I bought for my girlfriend are randomly out for delivery today. Perfect timing :)

An amiibo, some astroglide, and a dildo. She's guessed them all already lol ;_;
Click to expand...

That's perfect timing indeed. I think your gf knows you too well when she can correctly guess what you're giving her. :p
 
K

Kater

Banned
TheAbsolution said:
Y know Kater, now since I've heard your voice, I read all of your posts in your Austrian accent. :p
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Heh, that's only natural. I always do that after hearing people's voices for the first time. :D

When did you leave the chat by the way?

Henchmen21 said:
Some people (lucky people) are very flexible.

Aww did I miss a chance to hear Kater?
Click to expand...
Only very few people can really do that. Takes a lot of training I'd imagine. Worth it, possibly, in the end.

Drunk Kater, yeah. On the Skype Chat. ^^
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
HippieHobo said:
That's perfect timing indeed. I think your gf knows you too well when she can correctly guess what you're giving her. :p
Click to expand...
If my brain were a sleigh, she would hold the reigns. One of her favourite pastimes is dropping something lewd in the middle of my trains of thought and watching them derail.
 
H

Henchmen21

Banned
Kater said:
Heh, that's only natural. I always do that after hearing people's voices for the first time. :D

When did you leave the chat by the way?


Only very few people can really do that. Takes a lot of training I'd imagine. Worth it, possibly, in the end.

Drunk Kater, yeah. On the Skype Chat. ^^
Click to expand...

That's not where it's going though :p
 
A

Aarglefarg

Member
garyBig said:
She links to a report that says that 52 % of the American lgbt community is/identifies as bisexual. According to the definition of bisexuality given alongside that table, apparently I'm also bi (had looong time romantic stuff with a girl, but have not once in my life been really sexually attracted to women).

Identifying as gay (not bi) tremendously helped me to make sense of the world. Doesn't mean that I would reject the girl of my life if I one day stumbled upon her (if she existed).

So... I think bisexuality is something that clearly IS a problematic term, especially if you hear such 52% figures, because it is undeniably used (if by no means exclusively) by people on the fence as well. Strictly speaking, people on the fence should be categorized as Questioning, however.
But yeah, nobody does that, so of course you use the term 'bisexuality' instead, which is fine as a practice but it muddles the term even more.
Asexuals can have romantic feelings and relationships so why does romantic attraction towards one of both sexes/genders in addition to your sexually preferred one constitute bisexuality? The term in this case should be biromantic or something along the lines.

So yeah, looking at our ironic mission of taking over the alphabet, labels are inherently problematic anyway, I get that.
But bisexuality probably the most, since there undebiably ARE bisexuals, but their label gets used by non-bisexuals and muddled and misinformation about it is virulent and as a consequence it even leads to the apparently common misconception/myth that it doesn't exist at all.

The same report says that this group of bisexuals have the highest physical and mental health risks and a lot of other problems. I don't know but to me these sound like symptoms of questioning and uncertainty and repression and not being ready to commit to anything other but bisexuality which, again, should not really be muddled in with the term.

So yeah, of course I'm not trying to defend mindless hostility here obv, but I think this term really has a problematic track record so it's entirely plausible to expect bigotry to happen (since all forms of hatred against other groups is not just a case of inter-group dynamic and peer loyalty but also an information issue of misinformation or not enough info/education on in general).

Aside from that, do lgt people feel sort of threatened or... jelly of bisexuals maybe?
Click to expand...
I'll respond to this post with things you added in other posts too.

Identifying as bisexual is a matter of "are X and Y and Z attractons significant enough to me by my standards to do so". Regardless of identity, sexologists should still categorise them behaviourally or whateverually as bisexual if that fits.

Every sexuality label gets 'muddled' by people identifying as it. Lots of bis publicly identify as gay. Lots of everyone publicly identifies as straight.

Some of the higher rates of problems bisexuals as a group have can be attributed to people in the group questioning, but biphobia and less support and fitting into a world based upon monosexist assumptions would do a whole lot too. Which make it not the 'easy way out'.

If there's another thing you want addressed in particular, let me know and I'll try.
 
D

daripad

Member
If my father gets mad at his wife again, it looks like they will divorce. I hope it doesn't happen, because it would mean that only me and him would live here and I won't be able to stand it.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
Mr_Zombie said:
Unless you're willing to completely shield yourself in a safe bubble - away from the whole world, you should understand that, unfortunately, there really is no fully safe place - on the Internet or in real life. The general (and sad) rule is: expect people to be jerks. Even GAF has its dark moments - be it various minorities threads, the whole Gaming Gate affair, fat shaming, various "look how ugly that person is" threads, religion discussions etc. The reason for this is that it's a community of people from all over the world, of different ages, raised in various cultures, with various views on the world; the only thing that keeps things in place, usually preventing discussions from turning really ugly, are forum rules and moderators. To see what happens without them just visit (or better not) the GAF Facebook group, where people don't have to hold their views.

However, there are places here where you can feel comfortable, and LGBT GAF is one of them. So please, even if that thread made you mad, stay here. It's way better to be among people who care about you, even if that means meeting few jerks or listening to few awful things once in a while, than to deal with all your problems alone.
Click to expand...

Honestly I wish I could, but you're right.
 
G

garyBig

Member
Aarglefarg said:
Some of the higher rates of problems bisexuals as a group have can be attributed to people in the group questioning, but biphobia and less support and fitting into a world based upon monosexist assumptions would do a whole lot too. Which make it not the 'easy way out'.
Click to expand...

I honestly can't believe that biphobia is a problem as severe (or even more, as the report makes it seem) as general homophobia. I have no knowledge about this other than anecdotal evidence, general common preconceptions and assumptions based on the thing itself, but 'bisexual' is very widely understood as the socially more acceptable alternative and therefore often pre-label to gay.

I would also bet my ass that the hostility shown by that woman for example, represents more a backlash to this, I'm sure there's jealousy involved here to the effect that those who claim they're bisexual seem to benefit from both the privileges of being gay (having relations to the same gender) and those of straight people and the majority culture as well since they're considered more 'acceptable' and share the heterosexual traits of a heteronormative culture.

And I'm sorry but yeah I can't really see how bisexual is not the easier way compared to gay.
The most severe biphobia thing appears to be the frequent bi-blindness, people believing it doesn't really exist and is only used as a temporary label to soften the coming out.
And this perception certainly stems from the fact that people really do that, they start with this label, either to satisfy their surroundings or even themselves if they have trouble admitting to themselves that they're just not attracted to the other gender.
So 'bisexual' is a sexuality and a label and I think you have to seperate both.

If, hypothetically, you really were on the fence and still wagering and in the process of finding yourself (I know myself how compliated and prolonged this can be), how would someone shouting "Get off the fence" be biphobic to this individual? It would be bi-label-phobic, but not biphobic since it's not strictly directed to bisexuals. There's a difference and again, labels are shit anyway or whatever. But in this case bisexuals are hurt by the muddling of their label, leading to hostility against 'not committing to homosexuality' and hostility against bisexuals being thrown together when they don't have much in common.
To come back to the shouting woman, as bad as her actions were, strictly speaking she did not hate on people that are attracted to both genders. But she directed her disdain against people who are attracted to both genders, because label and sexual Kinsey middle-range share the same name.

So yeah, none of this would happen in a post-label society where everyone accepts that people can like and be with whoever they want whenever they like. But until this futuristic social utopia is actually here, the bisexuality label in particular proves to be very problematic.
 
A

Aarglefarg

Member
garyBig said:
I honestly can't believe that biphobia is a problem as severe (or even more, as the report makes it seem) as general homophobia. I have no knowledge about this other than anecdotal evidence, general common preconceptions and assumptions based on the thing itself, but 'bisexual' is very widely understood as the socially more acceptable alternative and therefore often pre-label to gay.
Click to expand...
Confused. Greedy. Disease-transmitting. Not ready to come out. Attention-seeking. Cheating. Incapable of long-term relationships. Taking up space in gay/lesbian spaces. Add biphobia within the community and outside of it to general homophobia. You'll find MANY people who are fine with gay people but not with those bisexuals. A lot of gay people came out as bi because it is easier for them. A lot of bi people identify as gay because it is easier for them, or simply let people assume they are gay. Find it hard to understand? That's a problem with your understanding.

If, hypothetically, you really were on the fence and still wagering and in the process of finding yourself (I know myself how compliated and prolonged this can be), how would someone shouting "Get off the fence" be biphobic to this individual? It would be bi-label-phobic, but not biphobic since it's not strictly directed to bisexuals. There's a difference and again, labels are shit anyway or whatever. But in this case bisexuals are hurt by the muddling of their label, leading to hostility against 'not committing to homosexuality' and hostility against bisexuals being thrown together when they don't have much in common.
To come back to the shouting woman, as bad as her actions were, strictly speaking she did not hate on people that are attracted to both genders. But she directed her disdain against people who are attracted to both genders, because label and sexual Kinsey middle-range share the same name.
Click to expand...
"Get off the fence" was speaking to all bisexuals, as a denial of the validity of bisexuality as a sexual orientation or behaviour.

I am not hurt by people using a bisexual label when they are questioning or for another reason. I am hurt by people generalising this.
 
K

Kaiser_Glider

Neo Member
Well happy Valentine's day you guys and gals. I'm here stuffing my face with candy all by myself. The boy I was supposed to go out with today... well things didn't go as planned.

Oh well... I guess...

;_;
 
K

Kevyt

Member
Guys I have something important to tell all of you. What would be the appropriate venue? Skype? Gmail, or anything of that sort I guess.

Thanks.
 
G

garyBig

Member
Aarglefarg said:
Confused. Greedy. Disease-transmitting. Not ready to come out. Attention-seeking. Cheating. Incapable of long-term relationships. Taking up space in gay/lesbian spaces. Add biphobia within the community and outside of it to general homophobia. You'll find MANY people who are fine with gay people but not with those bisexuals. A lot of gay people came out as bi because it is easier for them. A lot of bi people identify as gay because it is easier for them, or simply let people assume they are gay. Find it hard to understand? That's a problem with your understanding.
Click to expand...

This is starting to escalate into a "X doesn't have it as bad as Y" deal which never ends productively. I'm grateful though that you mention both versions of someone wishing to be perceived the other because that's what relativity is all about. I don't doubt that there are particular situations in which a gay person is more accepted than a bisexual one.

What should be remembered, though, when being surprised about in-community-discrimination is that the instinctive perception is hugely and unanimously 'in favor of' the gays in this case.
The bisexual experience is regarded as one with more options, less forcedness and one that enables the individual to be in a satisfying relationship with the other sex - with all the countless privileges this brings with it in a heteronormative society. That the possible conditions and implications of this scenario (being in a hetero relationship without telling anyone about your bisexuality for example) may by no means bound to be ideal, does nothing to change this view of bisexuals as the ones with a supposedly much better predisposition.
My point is that the exclusion of bis by gays has to do with jealousy, a sleeping with the enemy instead of open opposition notion (enemy in this case not being the other gender obv but the discriminatory majority society) and possibly the threat of the personally unknown (same as homophobia by heteros) and the threat of more competition by a whole other gender.

You can't deny the perceived notion of "bis have it better" to be the majority opinion, and in my opnion it's this perception that leads to hostility against bisexuals.

This is a separate issue from the one that comes from the label's status as temporary label by soon-to-come-out-fully people, and the latter adds to the first issue, making the bisexual issue more severe than it would already be (without the second issue having much to do with the first)

Aarglefarg said:
"Get off the fence" was speaking to all bisexuals, as a denial of the validity of bisexuality as a sexual orientation or behaviour.

I am not hurt by people using a bisexual label when they are questioning or for another reason. I am hurt by people generalising this.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Generalising is the very problem associated with the bi label. That's what makes it more prone to being misunderstood, met with ignorance, or blindly ignored. Because too many individual fates are thrown in this blender and in the end no one seems to be able to properly use the term anymore. This is what makes the bi label the prime example against labels. It's so inherent an issue to the label that it's very hard to find measures to counter it apart from that people in general need more exposure to bisexuals who do not after a while become gay (to raise awareness to their often denied existence) - the openly bisexual governor is a good example. We definitely need more of that.
Other than that, though, the unmuddling is pretty impossible, so generalisation will continue to happen as long as the label exists. Unfortunately it will also keep happening within the community.


This is just my way of making sense of the cultural practices behind this stuff, it does not mean that any involved preconceptions are true. But even if all 'people attracted to both genders' would on average indeed be unhappier than the other groups, it would not change them in my opinion. And I mean, in the end we both agree, bisexuals have to deal with very specific kinds of problems that other letters don't face (although this is true for every letter individually as well).

----------

At this point I guess I should apologize to the thread for these overly long posts whose purpose most will not even bother to seek, and justifiably so. So yeah, my last posts were all basically just my train of thoughts that were triggered by the biphobic-shouting-at-gaypride-incident. So it was my way of reacting to this (instead of a 'this is shocking' or 'i don't understand how this can be' response because those were already given aplenty). I think this whole isssue is clearer to me now, the attention was raised to this issue which is always good. It just manifested in overblown posts, sorry for that, I've always been terrible at keeping it short.
 
DOWN

DOWN

Banned
HippieHobo said:
Guys I have something important to tell all of you. What would be the appropriate venue? Skype? Gmail, or anything of that sort I guess.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Skype is probably the biggest secondary chat for the thread users, if it can't be said here.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Giever said:
Hey dudes, I'm bi, but I'm probably not going to post here too often.

Really I just wanted an avenue to express frustration & disappointment at some recent bullshit shutting-down-of-conversation that we're all aware of. So that's what this is. It's not bannable if it's in spoiler tags, right?
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Welcome! Post often!

Caladrius said:
You wanna hear somethin' funny?
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D:

VegiHam said:
Also, coincidentally, feeling that general down-with-life vibe you guys are on about. Just kinda lost and displaced lately, don't know if I'm really moving forward, you know? I'm not doing anything new or really achieving anything. Nobody in this thread should feel lonely and unwanted, but it's hard to think of GAF people as friends when the analogue world seems so cold. Let's hang together guys or we'll all fall apart.
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:(

*hug*

Aarglefarg said:
The US has its first openly bisexual governor, with Kate Brown in Oregon.
Click to expand...

Cool!

PANTHEON said:
you can be your own valentine hot stuff

BxtdiM2.gif


thats how i do it
Click to expand...

same tbh

alvmew said:
Ask and ye shall receive....

Here is my second tattoo, absolutely love it! http://instagram.com/p/zFfF99Mxgq/

EDIT: I don't recall if I ever posted a pic of my first tattoo here, so here's that: http://instagram.com/p/zFgMvKMxjp/

(The date is when I came out.)
Click to expand...

Very cool! Is that a phoenix?

HylianTom said:
Happy Mardi Gras weekend, folks!

CitadelMarchers.jpg

(yup.. Marines from The Citadel, marching one block from my place..)
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Aren't those chin straps? How come they're in their mouths/under their noses? Shouldn't they be underneath their chins?

HippieHobo said:
Guys I have something important to tell all of you. What would be the appropriate venue? Skype? Gmail, or anything of that sort I guess.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

If your announcement is geared towards this community, then post it in this thread. Not everyone here goes to the Skype chat (especially not all at the same time).
 
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