LittleBigAgendas: Why didn't the mass market overlook LBP?
- Thread starter CowGirl
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Prolly just repeating what everyone else has said already but...
1) the 'mass market' aren't interested in deep level customization, nor are they interested in a game so heavily physics based\
2) Its on the PS3, and the mass market isn't going to spend 400 dollars on a machine to play games :/
I mean, to get any real enjoyment out of the game you have to be interested in the whole physics engine the game employs, because all the premade levels are only fun once you've figured out how to mess around with them. Also, and I'm in this boat, the level creation really does require some serious time(if you want to get anything remotely fun).
1) the 'mass market' aren't interested in deep level customization, nor are they interested in a game so heavily physics based\
2) Its on the PS3, and the mass market isn't going to spend 400 dollars on a machine to play games :/
I mean, to get any real enjoyment out of the game you have to be interested in the whole physics engine the game employs, because all the premade levels are only fun once you've figured out how to mess around with them. Also, and I'm in this boat, the level creation really does require some serious time(if you want to get anything remotely fun).
...was that the best link you could come up with? custom movements in crysis? you're still playing crysis, in the same context -- you just have more control.lyre said:
why not point to the obvious... like counter-strike? or HL rally racing?
Speevy said:
...
Quake Rally.
Do console only gamers really believe LBP is revolutionary? Welcome to the 90s!
EmCeeGramr
Member
Mar_ said:
Hell, you can just list "Gmod," considering that Gmod supports the creation of custom modes, including building, racing, roleplaying, sim, survival horror, and more.
Just because it looks cute doesn't mean it is an instant seller.
I haven't bought it, and the reason is simple: I don't care about creating levels.
Some of you may enjoy doing that, and yes, I actually have seen some pretty interesting ones like the Gradius one or the Tetris one (cool idea, poor execution).
I probably would play other people's levels for sheer curiosity but I wouldn't spend $60 to play customized stages that range from piss poor to uniquely awesome which are quite rare.
I played the beta, thought it was charming, but the single player collect-a-thon felt time consuming (and for me its useless since I dont care about creating levels) and I didn't really like the physics much. Jumps were a bit floaty for my tastes too.
I haven't bought it, and the reason is simple: I don't care about creating levels.
Some of you may enjoy doing that, and yes, I actually have seen some pretty interesting ones like the Gradius one or the Tetris one (cool idea, poor execution).
I probably would play other people's levels for sheer curiosity but I wouldn't spend $60 to play customized stages that range from piss poor to uniquely awesome which are quite rare.
I played the beta, thought it was charming, but the single player collect-a-thon felt time consuming (and for me its useless since I dont care about creating levels) and I didn't really like the physics much. Jumps were a bit floaty for my tastes too.
Private Hoffman
Banned
Troidal said:
Rare? Not really. There's a ton of great levels out there. Single player alone justifies it. You don't need to care about creating levels to get your value.
The single player you got to play during the beta isn't anywhere near indicative of the subsequent levels. Those were basically introductory stages.
Digital Limit said:
Yeah, I think this is it. It's enjoyable and I do like playing it but the gameplay doesn't feel like anything really awesome. What MM should have done is allowed people to modify the way the game actually plays like player speed, jumping, abilities, etc but then you're opening up a whole new cam of worms.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I have one question for the defenders of LBP:
Is it as great a game as you profess if all I want to do is platform? What if I don't care about level creation or even the community created levels? Does it stand well on its own then? Would you have still bought it?
Is it as great a game as you profess if all I want to do is platform? What if I don't care about level creation or even the community created levels? Does it stand well on its own then? Would you have still bought it?
flipswitch
Member
Why are people saying the game isn't fun?.I've read it a few times in this thread and I think it's an absolute joke.The gameplay is what I enjoy most.Check out some reviews and you will see that they rate the gameplay just as high if not higher than the gfx.
Chernobyled
Banned
Has the PS3 become game software cancer?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Takes too much time to make something only to have a few people play it.
This will always be the case no matter what MM does.
Hence most people will not find the game fun in the long run.
That is all.
This will always be the case no matter what MM does.
Hence most people will not find the game fun in the long run.
That is all.
rollingstart
Banned
flipswitch said:
I'm confused about that too. I think it's another case where either the person tried it, realized it didn't play like a 2D platformer, then wouldn't accept it after that for some stubborn reason; or they played the beta and thought the levels were indicitive of what a good level is. I'm sure even the best 2D platformer ever, Mario 3, could seem bad if you had a shitty level to play through.
Chernobyled
Banned
sykoex said:
Why would people saying LBP is disappointing on some level...game/sales/console, be in the LBP Official Thread.
Isn't it logical they'd be here, and not there. You act surprised.
Interesting.
rollingstart
Banned
Ether_Snake said:
A level that took me 30 minutes has over 100 plays (last time I checked a few weeks ago), there are even some who hearted it. That's pretty shocking to know that at least 100+ people played something I created, and another dozen or so liked it enough to favorite it. And this was just 30 minutes.
Look at the big levels (not the trophy whore ones) and really say that they don't deserve all the praise they get. The reason why World of Colour, Azure Palace, and the RRR3000 levels get so many views is because they are good levels.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Linkzg said:
Not to take anything away from your level at all since I haven't played it but just an FYI that I heart every user level I play no matter how good or shitty it is.
You get a trophy for doing it
....you only need to heart like 10 for the trophyOldJadedGamer said:Not to take anything away from your level at all since I haven't played it but just an FYI that I heart every user level I play no matter how good or shitty it is.
You get a trophy for doing it
edit: i've hearted way more than 10 levels, and all the levels i've hearted deserve a play.
rollingstart
Banned
OldJadedGamer said:Not to take anything away from your level at all since I haven't played it but just an FYI that I heart every user level I play no matter how good or shitty it is.
You get a trophy for doing it
I know, but I like to think people like my shitty rushed level with a title based around a spelling error.
...
IT'S REAL TO ME
OldJadedGamer
Banned
dfyb said:
I know that but I was referring as well to other people's trophies for being hearted so I'm helping people out in getting their trophies by hearting each and every one I play.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
dfyb said:
Yup, my game and I get to play it the way I want. I'd rather help other people get their Trophies.
DeaconKnowledge said:
I'm sure the "defenders of LBP" as you put it will answer that it's totally worth it for the story mode. Just be aware that there are people out there, like me, that didn't find the story mode very fun. I'm sure from what I saw and played that if you enjoy the aesthetic and the control mechanics well enough, you'll find the experience worthwhile and the story mode content pretty substantial. Anyone that guarantees that you will like it beyond a doubt is being unreasonable though.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
i'm sorry - i've been meaning to have a go on this for a while, this point is getting stretched massively out of proportion.
It's stuff hacked into the game, the whole thing still feels like LBP levels and the idea you can make "any game at all" is true but hides how limited you really are.
I mean, yes you can make a racing game, but it's stilll a LBP-style racing game - it's not like you're going to make Sega Rally, or if you did you'd have decent looking car replicas, go-stop controls, a race left to right/right to left game with no turns.... fun novelty but OLD very quickly.
Excite bike, sure, you could probably make a decent stab at that, but that's about it.
IF you want to make LBP levels, and some hacked fun little novelties. The idea that you can "make any game in LBP" or "make any genre" HAS to have the HUGE 1450 point font * saying "but it's going to feel like a LBP level and it will have those inherent limitations"
I think its just a much tougher market to crack than ever before. You've got the Wii taking most the spotlite,the 360 taking the rest of it,and then Sony with a $400.000 system pulling 3rd doesn't help at all. On top of it platformers are looked upon as "been there done that" and its another tough hill to climb overall. Plus the market is really frugal right now with the economy being so bad.
Well that's kinda like most commercial game engines isn't it?DCharlie said:
Eg. anything begining with Quake or Unreal is pretty much limited to people(or vehicles) with guns running around, and if commercial packages can't escape such limitations, why should an in-game editor be able to?
On a more serious note, are you a brit or what? Get your ass working on some of those C64 Euro classics levels instead of picking your nose and making smart-ass remarks about the editor.
Really? Show me a true FPS ala halo made from LBP, show me a 3rd person shooter like gears 2 or Warhawk, show me GT:5 made in LBP, show me Ninja Gaiden..... you can't do any of that. You can make a small wannabe that kindof looks like one but that's about it, LBP is MILES AND MILES away from PC mods.Speevy said:
The revolution was going to be that it was the first of its kind with a good share system. A garry's mod for platformers where every level would be rated and commented on, with a bunch of sorting and searching options.Mar_ said:
Sadly, that did not come to pass. The sorting system is not very good.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
Well that's kinda like most commercial game engines isn't it?
Eg. anything begining with Quake or Unreal is pretty much limited to people(or vehicles) with guns running around, and if commercial packages can't escape such limitations, why should an in-game editor be able to?
i'm not saying LBP's should, it's other people saying it can, but it's -obviously- limited to feeling as it does.
On a more serious note, are you a brit or what? Get your ass working on some of those C64 Euro classics levels instead of picking your nose and making smart-ass remarks about the editor.
I can't be productive at work! (i mean, productive in the editor)
I am a brit, but that means i'm doing FUDGE first! But i was actually sitting here thinking about the racing games thing and i wondered....
perhaps CHOCOBISCUIT would be possible?
remember - i LOVE LBP, it's a GOTY contender easily - i just don't understand the over building up of the editor. It's a COOL editor, but there is quite a bit of smoke/mirrors in claims you can build any game. I think anyone who spends some time with the game will see that.
I need time off - probably can't even start until xmas time.
Ariexv said:
I think the argument is caused by a fundamental misunderstanding or overstating of proponents about LBP's strengths.
Stuff made out of LEGO is still going to have to confine to LEGO rules. The same is true out of more complex engines like Unreal, Source etc, save the fact that if you are a programmer you can go in and change the source code itself in certain circumstances.
LBP's toolset and such is limited, but the emergent forms of gameplay possible from it are, while not limitless, unpredictable. They will still carry the LBP flavor and that is, in my opinion, a strength for such a game. It was never meant to be anything like Unreal/Source and because of its horizontal limitations in creation it also makes it EASIER for people to build things in it.
The other criticism of LBP's level editor as being too complex for normal people is, to my mind, lame. We only need a very small percentage of users to create good levels for the masses to play, and those who want to create little spiffy levels for dedications and whatnot can feel free.
The important failures of LBP are such:
(1) Seeming loose focus on what its target audience was
(2) Creators perhaps did not engineer their game with enough marketing intent, "How would any normal chap or chap xxx of our target audience be interested in this?"
(3) Sony fucked this shit up as usual
It's not too late for LBP.
rollingstart
Banned
OldJadedGamer said:Not to take anything away from your level at all since I haven't played it but just an FYI that I heart every user level I play no matter how good or shitty it is.
You get a trophy for doing it
My come back to this is that I just checked and if you combine the plays of both my so-so levels close to 7,000 have played and abou 200 have hearted. I'm amazed.
Maxwell House
Member
The average gamer doesn't want to spend the time to actually design a game / level so LBP has very limited appeal. It isn't a surprise that it isn't a mass market hit.
Maxwell House
Member
It's much easier designing a car than designing a level.Dina said:
I don't have a PS3 yet.
Whenever I get one LBP will be the first game I buy. This will raise sales by one copy.
case closed.
In all seriousnessessesss, the ps3 in general, is not a machine that appeales to the mass market.
Thats like expecting The Conduit to sell like Halo
Thes current sales are early, but look fine. I don't think there is any concern. Just console warz bullshit.
Whenever I get one LBP will be the first game I buy. This will raise sales by one copy.
case closed.
In all seriousnessessesss, the ps3 in general, is not a machine that appeales to the mass market.
Thats like expecting The Conduit to sell like Halo
Thes current sales are early, but look fine. I don't think there is any concern. Just console warz bullshit.
Maxwell House
Member
LOL, this confirms that Hoffman = Hans = Snah.Private Hoffman said:
:lol
Maxwell House said:
Yep.
Plus the average gamer,if he is gonna spend time with an editor, will do so for games like FarCry,Halo,COD6(if they ever add one) etc. I saw this first hand with FarCry,5 of my casual friends were fucking building 911 buildings falling,the morbid fucks. Then they went on to build race courses,and finally a few of them actually made decent maps to play in also.:b
Shooters are the popular choice now,platformers not so much. Thats the casual gaming craze the last few years.
Ninja Scooter
Member
the mass market over looked it because the mass market don't own PS3s.
Maxwell House
Member
I don't see LBP having very good legs..it didn't have that much appeal at launch despite a massive marketing campaign, great review scores and tons of hype...why would it have much lasting appeal? The game requires too much work and effort to have legs IMO.
If one more person says or implies that LBP's core gameplay is mediocre, bad, or anything short of exemplary, I'm going to smack you through the computer screen.
It's not freaking RPG Maker. The core gameplay is at worst, solid and fun, and at best, it's a trip down platformer fantasy avenue, and a love letter to what makes games what they are.
Stop saying LBP is a glorified toolset with no gameplay. You're in a miniscule minority. All the critics say you're wrong. All the sites which will reward this as the game of the year over Fallout 3, and Left 4 Dead, and Gears 2, and whatever else you're willing to name, will say you're wrong.
It's fine if you don't get into the game's mechanics, or prefer the platforming in other games. But the game design in LBP, and by that I mean the PLATFORMING, is well done and polished.
It's not freaking RPG Maker. The core gameplay is at worst, solid and fun, and at best, it's a trip down platformer fantasy avenue, and a love letter to what makes games what they are.
Stop saying LBP is a glorified toolset with no gameplay. You're in a miniscule minority. All the critics say you're wrong. All the sites which will reward this as the game of the year over Fallout 3, and Left 4 Dead, and Gears 2, and whatever else you're willing to name, will say you're wrong.
It's fine if you don't get into the game's mechanics, or prefer the platforming in other games. But the game design in LBP, and by that I mean the PLATFORMING, is well done and polished.
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