LittleBigAgendas: Why didn't the mass market overlook LBP?

Speevy said:
If one more person says or implies that LBP's core gameplay is mediocre, bad, or anything short of exemplary, I'm going to smack you through the computer screen.


It's not freaking RPG Maker. The core gameplay is at worst, solid and fun, and at best, it's a trip down platformer fantasy avenue, and a love letter to what makes games what they are.

Stop saying LBP is a glorified toolset with no gameplay. You're in a miniscule minority. All the critics say you're wrong. All the sites which will reward this as the game of the year over Fallout 3, and Left 4 Dead, and Gears 2, and whatever else you're willing to name, will say you're wrong.

It's fine if you don't get into the game's mechanics, or prefer the platforming in other games. But the game design in LBP, and by that I mean the PLATFORMING, is well done and polished.
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Not happening.
 
DCharlie said:
I am a brit, but that means i'm doing Manic Miner first! But i was actually sitting here thinking about the racing games thing and i wondered....
perhaps Wh##li# would be possible?
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Spoiler that shit or edit it out. I've been building this concept in my head ever since LBP beta, don't give people ideas. Last thing I want is some idiot spoil the thing by posting an uber shitty version up before me. :P

Yea I'm a bit of a fan of the game in question(one of those nostalgic trips) - I actually put a mini-game homage for it into last console game I worked on (which amazingly enough, actually got published after I quit that godforsaken dump of a company).

That said, there was that C64 game in similar vein but with focus on racing (supported split screen multiplayer), but I forgot what it was called. That would definately work (less complicated mechanics and all).

I need time off - probably can't even start until xmas time.
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Yea I know, it's a problem for me as well, and we're in the worst time with all the critical delivery dates of the year just piling up now. :(
 
Speevy said:
If one more person says or implies that LBP's core gameplay is mediocre, bad, or anything short of exemplary, I'm going to smack you through the computer screen.


It's not freaking RPG Maker. The core gameplay is at worst, solid and fun, and at best, it's a trip down platformer fantasy avenue, and a love letter to what makes games what they are.

Stop saying LBP is a glorified toolset with no gameplay. You're in a miniscule minority. All the critics say you're wrong. All the sites which will reward this as the game of the year over Fallout 3, and Left 4 Dead, and Gears 2, and whatever else you're willing to name, will say you're wrong.

It's fine if you don't get into the game's mechanics, or prefer the platforming in other games. But the game design in LBP, and by that I mean the PLATFORMING, is well done and polished.
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The same critics who praised GTAIV's oscar-worthy story and hailed it as the game of the generation, showering it with 10/10s?

Awesome.


I'd say the core gameplay is solid. Nothing special, but it's not supposed to be, either. The creation and share aspects are what make LBP stand out.
 
gkrykewy said:
Hasn't it been 1up's E3 game of the show for twelve years running? Now of course none of them want to talk about it except Shane.
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Spore won E3 GOTS for like 75 years running (If LBP did it for 12), and it's not going to win GOTY from many places.
 
Meier said:
Six figure advertising campaign? S...i...x...? So, they're running CHEAP ads on channels that will do nothing for the awareness of the game (G4, etc.)? Unless you're advertising during House or Dancing With the Stars and spending millions, then what's the point?
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If that's true (which I can believe), this more than anything else is why the mainstream couldn't care less about this game. Mainstream audiences don't really care about "refined" controls or level design. They care about cute mascots, having fun, and goofing off.

The mainstream (non-gamers) need to be beaten over the head with pictures of Sackboy until his cute little sack insides bleed from their ears. That's how you get mainstream attention.

LBP was only sold to folks who are already tapped into the gaming media. That's it. There was no Wii-like ad campaign behind it, and no attempt to capture the mainstream media attention with Sackboy's deadly Cute Rays. MM held up their end of the bargain by creating a game with "mainstream appeal" written all over it in (little) big letters. Sony dropped the ball by not shelling out for a commensurate ad campaign.
 
sykoex said:
Hmm, is there any other game held to being worth the purchase for only 0.001% of its total possible content? :lol

Also, the answer is yes.
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PLAYING THE GAME is .001% of the content?

I think you need to sit down and think about what you just said.
 
Spoiler that shit or edit it out. I've been building this concept in my head ever since LBP beta, don't give people ideas. Last thing I want is some idiot spoil the thing by posting an uber shitty version up before me. :P
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eeek, i've removed - i took lunch - sorry for the delay :/

Yea I'm a bit of a fan of the game in question(one of those nostalgic trips) - I actually put a mini-game homage for it into last console game I worked on (which amazingly enough, actually got published after I quit that godforsaken dump of a company).
Click to expand...
:O

i want to seeeeeee!

That said, there was that C64 game in similar vein but with focus on racing (supported split screen multiplayer), but I forgot what it was called. That would definately work (less complicated mechanics and all).
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\

Kickstart?

Yea I know, it's a problem for me as well, and we're in the worst time with all the critical delivery dates of the year just piling up now. :(
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Mainframe lockdown of finance industry melt down should/could provide me with 5 day weeks and long weekends worth of free time! ;)
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
PLAYING THE GAME is .001% of the content?

I think you need to sit down and think about what you just said.
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wow, right over your head, huh?

he's saying that the story levels are but a mere few of the levels you'll be able to play, when you take into consideration there are already thousands of levels to play online.
 
Maxwell House said:
It's much easier designing a car than designing a level.
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Have you ever touch forza 2? You only have the basic forms and people have done miracles with it. See any cars on the neogaf thread to flip out.
 
LBP has already sold between 100k - 200k since its release in the UK on November 5th, which represents 1/3 of the Euro market. So in all of Europe, LBP may stand at around 333k right now.

Now let's assume that LBP sells 200k again in November in the US, with Europe at around 400k at the start of December...

That's nearly 900k units of sales world wide just at the start of December. How exactly would that be a bomb?

Most of the so called casual blockbusters never started out selling ridiculous NPD numbers when they were new IPs.
 
the LBP specific ads i've seen so far have been total garbage ..and any 1 watching them wouldn't have a clue it was a platformer..


they could just put a condensed version of the 1st ever showing of the thing and that would be better ..hell even .. the games opening film clip would be more effective.

just saying
 
LBP has already sold between 100k - 200k since its release in the UK on November 5th, which represents 1/3 of the Euro market. So in all of Europe, LBP may stand at around 333k right now.
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do we have links for this? i could have sworn someone said 28k in the UK but i guess that could have been the last week (?)

100-200k for the UK alone looks pretty high to me. Great if it has though.
 
itxaka said:
Have you ever touch forza 2? You only have the basic forms and people have done miracles with it. See any cars on the neogaf thread to flip out.
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Yes, the very select few have spent countless hours making amazing cars in Forza, but, again, they are the select few. The majority of Forza buyers don't spend vast amounts of time designing cars..they are just racing and playing the core game.

The problem for LBP is that without the level design there isn't much else appealing about the game. It certainly doesn't have the mainstream appeal of the core game in Forza.
 
Private Hoffman said:
LBP has already sold between 100k - 200k since its release in the UK on November 5th, which represents 1/3 of the Euro market. So in all of Europe, LBP may stand at around 333k right now.

Now let's assume that LBP sells 200k again in November in the US, with Europe at around 400k at the start of December...

That's nearly 900k units of sales world wide just at the start of December. How exactly would that be a bomb?

Most of the so called casual blockbusters never started out selling ridiculous NPD numbers when they were new IPs.
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Wow, that is some really bad damage control. LBP was supposed to be PS3's big title for Christmas 08...900k worldwide isn't very glowing numbers.
 
Maxwell House said:
Yes, the very select few have spent countless hours making amazing cars in Forza, but, again, they are the select few. The majority of Forza buyers don't spend vast amounts of time designing cars..they are just racing and playing the core game.

The problem for LBP is that without the level design there isn't much else appealing about the game. It certainly doesn't have the mainstream appeal of the core game in Forza.
Click to expand...

Err...didn't Forza 2 sell almost exactly the same during its first month NPD as LBP?

Yup.

Forza 2 sold 217k in its first NPD...it also had the same number of days to chart (like 4-5), just like LBP.
 
Maxwell House said:
Wow, that is some really bad damage control. LBP was supposed to be PS3's big title for Christmas 08...900k worldwide isn't very glowing numbers.
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considering there's not that many million sellers for the ps3 to begin with...
 
DCharlie said:
:O i want to seeeeeee!
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Look up (download if possible, they don't deserve the sales anyway)
dt carnage
if you can find it.

And yea, that's the C64 game I was thinking of. It should be possible to do a very faithful LBP version of it, even down to emulating the construction kit lol.

Mainframe lockdown of finance industry melt down should/could provide me with 5 day weeks and long weekends worth of free time! ;)
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Yea, we do have official vacation coming up and all but it's still in the "should" happen stage.
 
Maxwell House said:
Yes, the very select few have spent countless hours making amazing cars in Forza, but, again, they are the select few. The majority of Forza buyers don't spend vast amounts of time designing cars..they are just racing and playing the core game.

The problem for LBP is that without the level design there isn't much else appealing about the game. It certainly doesn't have the mainstream appeal of the core game in Forza.
Click to expand...

wait so people that don't create any levels can't then proceed to play those amazing levels made by the dedicated and have fun??

seems like even the casual win regardless of if they put in the effort..
 
Private Hoffman said:
Err...didn't Forza 2 sell almost exactly the same during its first month NPD as LBP?

Yup.

Forza 2 sold 217k in its first NPD...it also had limited number of days to chart, just like LBP.
Click to expand...

wasn't forza 2 bundles with xboxes?

then agian that might have occured later after F2 launched?? i dont remember. clarification would be nice to jog me memory..
 
The core game play has nothing to do with sales (or lack, thereof) with this particular title. Stop using this as a fucking bullet point in arguments. What evidence do you have? Personal experience? Critics love it and, if the beta was of any indication, everyone else loves it, too.

You can dislike the game all you want, but don't inflate the whole damn thing and attribute it to the game's "poor" sales.
 
Private Hoffman said:
Err...didn't Forza 2 sell almost exactly the same during its first month NPD as LBP?

Yup.

Forza 2 sold 217k in its first NPD...it also had limited number of days to chart, just like LBP.
Click to expand...
Forza 2 wasn't pushed as one of MS's big titles..it was hardly given any marketing at all.

LBP was supposed to be PS3's biggest title for Christmas 08.
 
I think what went wrong was the PS3. It itself has severely fallen short of even the lowest predictions.
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well, i predicted 750k by end of year in the official thread, but i think it should beat that (by how much is anyones guess)

Regardless, if you like games, you'd want it to do well - the multiplayer alone is absolutely golden and, hell, it's SOMETHING DIFFERENT which needs applauding too.
 
Potential factors:

-PS3 has been struggling in North America.
-We're in the middle of a recession like we've never seen. People are less likely to take a risk and buy something for $60 that seems new/strange to them.

Put those two together and you have a real problem generating sales.

Like I said in another thread, this whole economic ditch the world is in right now simply cannot be good for new games that need tons of early adopters to grow. It's too bad.
 
WretchedTruman said:
The core game play has nothing to do with sales (or lack, thereof) with this particular title. Stop using this as a fucking bullet point in arguments. What evidence do you have? Personal experience? Critics love it and, if the beta was of any indication, everyone else loves it, too.

You can dislike the game all you want, but don't inflate the whole damn thing and attribute it to the game's "poor" sales.
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The casual gamer appears to be saying otherwise. Platformers are not mainstream anymore..especially platformers whose main appeal is designing levels.
 
Maxwell House said:
Forza 2 wasn't pushed as one of MS's big titles..it was hardly given any marketing at all.

LBP was supposed to be PS3's biggest title for Christmas 08.
Click to expand...


LBP wasn't pushed as one of Sony's big titles either, it was hardly marketed at all.

See what I did there?

I don't care if a person at Sony says LBP is going to be their biggest titles if they don't back that up with a proper marketing push.

That's besides the point.... can you stick to the point? You said Forza 2 had more mainstream core appeal. I am guessing you are determining appeal by sales numbers, so why is it that LBP sold almost exactly the same? What are you basing that on?
 
WretchedTruman said:
The core game play has nothing to do with sales (or lack, thereof) with this particular title. Stop using this as a fucking bullet point in arguments. What evidence do you have? Personal experience? Critics love it and, if the beta was of any indication, everyone else loves it, too.

You can dislike the game all you want, but don't inflate the whole damn thing and attribute it to the game's "poor" sales.
Click to expand...


There's no better barometer of its success other than..... its success. Still the game delivers, and it seems many are missing out.
 
Maxwell House said:
Forza 2 wasn't pushed as one of MS's big titles..it was hardly given any marketing at all.

LBP was supposed to be PS3's biggest title for Christmas 08.
Click to expand...

According to Sony it is the biggest title they have this year:

"LittleBigPlanet is going to be the biggest title for Sony in all markets this year" -Shuhei Yoshida

Private Hoffman said:
LBP wasn't pushed as one of Sony's big titles either, it was hardly marketed at all.

See what I did there?

I don't care if a person at Sony says LBP is going to be their biggest titles if they don't back that up with a proper marketing push.
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He didn't say it was going to be... he said it IS. And it wasn't just a random "someone" it was the Sony Worldwide Studios president. Now who has more credibility here? The president of Sony's worldwide studios or Private Hoffman?
 
Maxwell House said:
The casual gamer appears to be saying otherwise. Platformers are not mainstream anymore..especially platformers whose main appeal is designing levels.
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The casual gamer doesn't even know what LBP is, so how can s/he judge it accordingly?
The casual gamer has no voice in the community that is LBP. If they did, we'd be seeing more sales
 
Private Hoffman said:
LBP wasn't pushed as one of Sony's big titles either, it was hardly marketed at all.

See what I did there?

I don't care if a person at Sony says LBP is going to be their biggest titles if they don't back that up with a proper marketing push.

That's besides the point.... can you stick to the point? You said Forza 2 had more mainstream core appeal. I am guessing you are determining appeal by sales numbers, so why is it that LBP sold almost exactly the same? What are you basing that on?
Click to expand...
Except, LBP has been pushed hard by Sony. Forza 2 wasn't pushed even a fifth of the way LPB has and it has sold the same nonethless.
 
Maxwell House said:
Except, LBP has been pushed hard by Sony. Forza 2 wasn't pushed even a fifth of the way LPB has and it has sold the same nonethless.
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It has been pushed hard by Sony? It's a great thing I've hardly seen any ads for it then. That's not what I call being pushed hard.
 
Private Hoffman said:
It has been pushed hard by Sony? It's a great thing I've hardly seen any ads for it then. That's not what I call being pushed hard.
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I rarely see videogame ads (I don't watch shit on Spike TV) but even I've seen an LBP ad.
 
GenericPseudonym said:
I rarely see videogame ads (I don't watch shit on Spike TV) but even I've seen an LBP ad.
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I've seen like 1 LBP ad and that wasn't even a proper one. It was some pre order gamestop ad.

I've seen countless commercials for games like MotorStorm 2, Resistance 2, and Gears 2.

If this is Sony's biggest holiday title, then I don't believe they're marketing it as such since R2 and MS2 have received far greater ad time.
 
Private Hoffman said:
I've seen like 1 LBP ad and that wasn't even a proper one. It was some pre order gamestop ad.

I've seen countless commercials for games like MotorStorm 2, Resistance 2, and Gears 2.

If this is Sony's biggest holiday title, then I don't believe they're marketing it as such since R2 and MS2 have received far greater ad time.
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No doubt I've seen more Motorstorm ads, I've only seen one GoW2 ad and one R2 ad. It is strange I've seen so many Motorstorm ads when it is easily the weakest of the three. Perhaps Sony expected that internet hype and word of mouth would propel sales even with less ads.
 
how can you not like this guy?

sackboy_lbp-500x312.jpg
 
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