LittleBigAgendas: Why didn't the mass market overlook LBP?
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miyamotofreak
Banned
I dunno the Motorstorm PR thread is a complete jizzfest.GenericPseudonym said:
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Linkzg said:
But the players don't give a fuck. They make stuff, people don't play it, they are not having fun as a result. It's not about quality, it's about whether people are having fun. People have fun when others play their stuff.
It's a problem that is inherent to the game itself. Even if everyone made great levels you would have the same problem.
People are disappointed when others don't play their stuff, and they leave. There is a limit to how many levels people will play. You automatically end up with a very large number of people not having their creations played. Hence they leave.
That's why LBP can't be a lasting hit.
Private Hoffman
Banned
Ether_Snake said:
I think the biggest issue is the way MM's filtering system works in LBP. It's just not anywhere near as good as it could be. But they've already admitted that they're working on this very issue right now.
To say it can't be a lasting hit is just absurd IMHO.
miyamotofreak said:
Weakest in terms of sales potential, not quality. MotorStorm
R is an awesome game.Private Hoffman
Banned
gantz85 said:
Launch title, pack-in...lots of factors at play there.
Why hasn't LBP moved consoles?
It's called a global recession. People are worried about losing their jobs and houses, and with good reason, than dropping $400-500 on an entertainment system. I mean, this is just the beginning of the recession. Who knows how long it will last and what hardships we will/will not face before all is said and done.
Sony has done this to themselves. $400, in this economic turmoil, is way too much for people to swallow. The PS3 should be at $199-250 if they wanted to stay relevant. I know I'm going to have the Sony Defense Force on my back for this statement, but it's true. It doesn't matter that it has Blu-Ray built in. It doesn't matter that it has the Cell chip. It doesn't matter how "advanced" it is. It is still a videogame console to most people, and it is a hard sell in these times to get people to drop the $400-500 on an entertainment device. At least at $199-250, people may take the plunge and deem that as their luxury item that they'll get by these times with.
It's called a global recession. People are worried about losing their jobs and houses, and with good reason, than dropping $400-500 on an entertainment system. I mean, this is just the beginning of the recession. Who knows how long it will last and what hardships we will/will not face before all is said and done.
Sony has done this to themselves. $400, in this economic turmoil, is way too much for people to swallow. The PS3 should be at $199-250 if they wanted to stay relevant. I know I'm going to have the Sony Defense Force on my back for this statement, but it's true. It doesn't matter that it has Blu-Ray built in. It doesn't matter that it has the Cell chip. It doesn't matter how "advanced" it is. It is still a videogame console to most people, and it is a hard sell in these times to get people to drop the $400-500 on an entertainment device. At least at $199-250, people may take the plunge and deem that as their luxury item that they'll get by these times with.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Spike said:
Sony would be bankrupt right now if the PS3 was $199.
AranhaHunter said:
No, they wouldn't. I mean today. They made the sales to the people who were willing to spend $400+ on the system. How much longer do you think they can keep it at the $400-500 range and make the sales that they want?
They drop in a 20GB HDD in the system, and they're set. They have to realize that it's going to be hard to get people to drop evn $200-250 on an entertainment unit in these times. So they need to lower the price enough that people may bite on it, and look to recoup the losses from the hardware via software and PSN.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
I posted something similar in the official thread awhile ago and my opinion hasn't changed. I'm at the second-to-last level and I still don't feel like I'm totally in control of my character when I play. The most creative levels in the world can't solve that. Awkward control in a game is inexcusable.Digital Limit said:
As an aside, this game is a perfect example of just how utterly uncritical the enthusiast press is in reality. The coverage for this game was overwhelmingly a regurgitation of bullet points and fantasies about its potential. I read very little about the problems with the fundamental mechanics. I've had repeated issues with the camera, too. In a 2D platformer.
rollingstart
Banned
Ether_Snake said:
You keep bolding things as to seem important, but all you're doing is singing the same note saying that people will bitch because people don't play their level. The 'issue' you're trying to stress is one based on person to person, not a game related one. As for the point about fun, it's really something subjective and you can't say that people aren't having fun when they don't have thousands of people playing there level.
In fact, and I'm not making this up to be convenient because I really did just play LBP earlier today after a few weeks of not, I played with some random guy earlier through a story misison and right after we warped back to his pod he booted up some of his levels to play and asked what I thought of them as we played. I can't say if he's having fun or not since that's on him but if someone played and said one of my levels was good I'd certainly be happy.
And not just you in general, well, somewhat since you paint people as being bitchy as all hell, but why do people ignore the actual playing aspect of the game? I haven't published a single level since I've gotten the full game and all of them are carried over from what I've made in the beta. All I've been doing was story and community levels and I'm still enjoying this game a lot. I'd hope that not everyone is a rage quitting whiner like you make them out to be, not just for LBP, but for almost any game out there.
Private Hoffman
Banned
DjangoReinhardt said:
Just because you have an outlier opinion on the game doesn't mean the enthusiast press is being uncritical.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
it was a strategic miscalculation in the first place and i doubt sales have matched first 2 year expectations. Glashing the price from $400 down to $199 would batter thier bottom line
Factor in that the Yen is way stronger against the $ that also makes a US price drop even more painful (that won't always be the case obviously)
But yes, sony aren't making a games division profit with the current sales at $400 - they are running at a loss. Dropping to $199 will increase sales, but that is going to exaggerate their losses and they'd then need a huge surge in games sales to cover the (presumably much larger) expanded losses. However, they increase their user base that may then buy games etc etc.... so personally, i think it's more likely that we'll see new pack ins or offers in the short term than a slashing of price with a modest price drop early next year ($50 or so with money off vouchers for games/Free PSN points or some other incentive to propel future sales)
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Wait, LBP is bombing? Oh, there is a God, and he does love me!
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
If New Super Mario Bros controlled like LBP, it would have rightfully been ripped. This game got a free pass.Private Hoffman said:
They write for their audience and the publishers. Their audience and the publishers who ultimately pay their salaries don't want thoughtful criticism; they want hype.Speevy said:
DjangoReinhardt said:
I just don't get it. I hate bad controls as much as anyone. I'm from the group that would have ripped on Jak and Daxter for being so rigid compared to Mario controls.
I'm playing LBP on a daily basis and I would have definitely found these mechanics you're talking about more grating with each day, and ultimately mentioned it.
I wouldn't call LBP's execution entirely flawless, nor have I ever said it's a perfect game. But the core gameplay mechanics are fun and polished, and the creation aspects are insanely deep. You could probably write more about how certain creative ideas or mechanics break than you could about the controls. It's just not something that has occurred to me while playing.
To put it more specifically, sackboy does what I want him to.
GenericPseudonym
Banned
miyamotofreak said:
On this board there is a not so tiny contingent who would gladly jizz over anything their company of choice told them to.
Private Hoffman
Banned
DjangoReinhardt said:
I don't think so at all, especially if the new super mario bros was a physics based platformer.
I like the way LBP controls. It's different and unique and fits in well with the physics engine.
There were plenty of reviews that mentioned the way the game controlled, stating basically the same thing; that it's different, but not necessarily a negative.
If it ruined the game for you, that's your opinion. And most people tend to disagree.
Doesn't mean that the game didn't receive its fair share of criticism in the press. They just didn't have the reaction you apparently did.
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Fuck. I was hoping for a real flat on the face thing here.Jinfash said:
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
DjangoReinhardt said:
A free pass? puh~lease!
It's like the only thing people have been ripping it for.
I've defended the controls for so long, and I still do think they're good, as none of my friends had any trouble "adjusting" (because it takes a couple of mins to do so).
Although I have to admit that after my sister came to visit last week and I gave her the second joystick... she sucked the life out of the game, while giggling a kid. The session was so boring to me (yet the cuteness won her over).
Case in point: controls are fine for any gamer, (Wii) casuals will have trouble.
RevenantKioku said:
Have faith, and don't underestimate Sony's marketing department. :lol
DeadlySchnauzer
Member
LBP now == Viva Pinata 2 years ago
Release a game with mass market cutesy characters on a console thats over priced and has not reached the mass market yet.
Hardcore gamers dont want it because its too cutesy. Mass market gamers dont want it because the hardware is too expensive.
= FAIL
Release a game with mass market cutesy characters on a console thats over priced and has not reached the mass market yet.
Hardcore gamers dont want it because its too cutesy. Mass market gamers dont want it because the hardware is too expensive.
= FAIL
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
i don't think i agree with that - i think it IS appealing to the hardcore for a number of factors :
Looks good
physics based goodness
level creation and the community around it
online multiplay
I think it's the influx of casuals that has been greatly over exaggerated. It simply hasn't happened in any meaningful way (at least it doesn't look like it has) and , so far, LBP is selling at a similar rate to any other top tier mainstream PS3 title.
So yeah, i don't think the cute side of the game is putting off the hardcore. For Casuals, it's probably still a bit too complex and daunting for them to dive head first into a console purchase. (I also think the Wii has that demographics mindset firmly in its pocket, but that's another thread)
Private Hoffman
Banned
DeadlySchnauzer said:
Except Viva Pinata 1 (and 2) have never reached sales anywhere close to what LBP has pulled in such a small period of time.
In fact, LBP has done what other similarly themed titles on next-gen consoles (viva, ratchet, etc) have not in terms of sales.
HAL_Laboratory
Member
Why wouldn't the mass market overlook LBP? It's a platformer. This type of game has been done thousands of times over the last 25+ years, and fundamentally it offers nothing more than what Mario was dishing out in the early 90's. It may look and play great, but it's still a 2D platformer. Takes more than shiny graphics, folks.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Out of interest, what's everyone saying that its bombed thoughts on other high high profile, multiplatform, heavily marketed games that it seems to be outselling?
Mirrors Edge, Dead Space, Force Unleashed... all new IPs (well, I guess Force Unleashed is disputable), all multiformat (so you'd assume is a given would have higher sales with a higher potential customer base), all heavily promoted and marketed, all aimed straight at a hardcore audience... all bomba.
Something wrong with LBP? Or something wrong with the market in general right now?
Mirrors Edge, Dead Space, Force Unleashed... all new IPs (well, I guess Force Unleashed is disputable), all multiformat (so you'd assume is a given would have higher sales with a higher potential customer base), all heavily promoted and marketed, all aimed straight at a hardcore audience... all bomba.
Something wrong with LBP? Or something wrong with the market in general right now?
_Alkaline_
Member
MrNyarlathotep said:
Force Unleashed bombed?
I don't think that was the case. :lol
HAL_Laboratory
Member
And brand recognition, among countless other variables.Slavik81 said:
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
I think LBP is a shitty product and it deserves nothing.Master Z said:
Private Hoffman
Banned
Master Z said:
Unless it's a mediocre JRPG, he's not going to like anything really. Takes that sort of asshole, I suppose.
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Yeah, having an opinion does make one an asshole.Private Hoffman said:
Look if you have fun with this bullshit, go nuts. I think it's bad game though and deserves to be ignored. I'm not saying I want the developers to go poor and starve, but if they went on to say, pumping gas or designing dolls, they might do better for the world.
Phife Dawg
Member
I guess that bodes very well for MS2 then?gantz85 said:
Still WAYS off to hit GT5Tideas said:
and be the biggest game for Sony this year in the UK. I also expect R2 to beat it handily. As I said before I expect the same in the US, unless of course R1 only sold well because it was released during the launch window and bundled. A similar fate has struck MS, but I think racers are infinitely less popular at the moment than shooters.Sony had big expectations for this game, it did not meet these expectations right from the bat and judging by weekly performance in Europa and Japan doesn't look like it'll meet them later on as well, hence people consider it a bomba. Of course drawing an arbitrary line helps people comfort themselves, but you can't spin the publisher's expectations.
It is true! Except not.chespace said:
Those damn delusional Sony fans at SCE :lol .slicedking said:
I just checked ******** and lbp is around 800K sales worldwide! I mean, we are speaking of a brand new ip here! thats pretty impressive! sure it could be much higher, but I am sure that the sales will end up high by the end of the year. I also have not bought the game yet, because my friend bought it and I have other bills to pay... but around christmas, this game will be mine!!
Probably way too early to call it a bomb by the GAF definition of the word. But we'll see how it does in November and December to get a clearer picture.
However it is not living up to the expectations that Sony (and the diehard fans) had hoped for. A lot of it has to do with the PS3 is still not at a good market price. Another portion of it has to do with poor marketing. Another part is that platformers in general aren't great sellers (Mario seems to be the exception). Also user-generated content is always a great extra to have but it seemed like LBP's longevity and replayability comes from this and it comes off as a cheap way out. Are there some awesome levels out there? Yeah. Are there a lot of poorly designed levels? Yeah. Are a lot of levels simply gimmicky eye candy that if you watch it once you got most of it? Yeah.
On a personal sidenote, I can't believe people are defending the controls/gameplay physics in this game. This is the one thing that I absolutely hated about the game.
However it is not living up to the expectations that Sony (and the diehard fans) had hoped for. A lot of it has to do with the PS3 is still not at a good market price. Another portion of it has to do with poor marketing. Another part is that platformers in general aren't great sellers (Mario seems to be the exception). Also user-generated content is always a great extra to have but it seemed like LBP's longevity and replayability comes from this and it comes off as a cheap way out. Are there some awesome levels out there? Yeah. Are there a lot of poorly designed levels? Yeah. Are a lot of levels simply gimmicky eye candy that if you watch it once you got most of it? Yeah.
On a personal sidenote, I can't believe people are defending the controls/gameplay physics in this game. This is the one thing that I absolutely hated about the game.
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