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[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Honestly if they're changing it to America, having the sociopathic MC with delusions of grandeur and a warped sense of justice be white makes the most sense lol

 

[wandering]

There hasn't been any or enough Asian American castings in Japanese IP American adaptations for us to find out, really.

I know Jamie Chung spoke out about that and how it affects her in the Mulan and Crazy Rich Asians casting in a recent CBS interview.



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jamie-chung-on-the-double-edged-sword-of-being-a-minority-in-hollywood/

Jamie Chung's never really spoken up on social issues before, so her outrage seems pretty hollow.

Getting mad over Crazy Rich Asians is pretty dumb when there's actual shit going on.

 

[kirblar]

That's what I was alluding to yeah, why couldn't they find a competent Asian American? Given the emphasis on moving the story to a western setting it'd make no sense to me if they went looking for someone in Japan.

"Our casting directors did an extensive search to get Asian actors," he said, "But we couldn't find the right person, the actors we did go to didn't speak the perfect English… and the characters had been rewritten."

The combination of things here makes it sound like they originally tried setting it in Japan but abandoned those plans and went for a full US translation.

 

[jack_package_200]

One thing I feel they should change is the character of Misa. Her character is "the dumb bitch who loves him and who keeps throwing a monkey wrench into Light's plans."

Its a misogynisticly written character.

Honestly if they're changing it to America, having the sociopathic MC with delusions of grandeur and a warped sense of justice be white makes the most sense lol

Light was a spoiled privileged asshole who was bored of his perfect life where everyone loves him.

Him being white in a US adaptation does make some sense.

 

[MHWilliams]

This is an adaptation. Like the The Departed or Edge of Tomorrow. If you're going to adapt a property to another region, do it.

Don't half-step or adapt and then back your way into a half-step like GITS.

Now, do I think these properties should cast the net wider to offer more Asian-American representation? Yes, as that's a problem in Hollywood. But this isn't what I'd called whitewashing per se.

Like, if you did Rurouni Kenshin straight up in Japan, but cast Kenshin a white man, that's whitewashing. If you did the basic idea of Kenshin, but transposed it to post-American Civil War, then go wild folks.

 

[Fuu]

Right.

I generally think of whitewashing in these contexts as when you're casting white actors as characters who are (or ought to be) of other ethnicities. So like the recent Ghost in the Shell, or the Egyptians in Exodus, or the leads in 21, or Emma Stone in Aloha.

If you're changing the setting from the adapted work, then it makes sense that you also would change the type of actors you cast. That's what happened with examples people have already mentioned in this thread like The Departed, The Ring, The Magnificent Seven, or The Handmaiden.

I'm tempted to blame manga/anime fans who are so used to completely literal adaptations that they lose their mind over any changes from the source, but that might be unfair.

That's my stance too. There's a real problem concerning asian actors getting work in the USA, but the freaking out regarding this one is misguided. Adaptions of foreign media that change the setting and the race of characters are ok, as several examples in this thread show.

Could they have had an asian american Light in this film? Yes. Should it be simply because the IP is originally Japanese? Not so much.

edit: the Masi Oka quote about accents is wack though.

 

[lightskintwin]

Jamie Chung's never really spoken up on social issues before, so her outrage seems pretty hollow.

Getting mad over Crazy Rich Asians is pretty dumb when there's actual shit going on.

Did you see specifically what her issues was? That she was told they were only casting ethnically Chinese people for the roles and since she was Korean she understood, and yet they cast a half White/half Chinese as one of the male leads. They also cast a half White /half Japanese in one of the roles however she wasn't made aware of that to speak on it.

But I think it's a good problem for us to have, so we can figure it out as more Asian Americans/Westerns get cast in more Hollywood films.

 

[Moonkid]

The combination of things here makes it sound like they originally tried setting it in Japan but abandoned those plans and went for a full US translation.

I wish they would have kept pursuing an Asian lead regardless but I'll take what we can get.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Is Magnificent Seven whitewashing?

Is Throne of Blood?

 

[Jarmel]

This is an adaptation. Like the The Departed or Edge of Tomorrow. If you're going to adapt a property to another region, do it.

Don't half-step or adapt and then back your way into a half-step like GITS.

Now, do I think these properties should cast the net wider to offer more Asian-American representation? Yes, as that's a problem in Hollywood. But this isn't what I'd called whitewashing per se.

Like, if you did Rurouni Kenshin straight up in Japan, but cast Kenshin a white man, that's whitewashing. If you did the basic idea of Kenshin, but transposed it to post-American Civil War, then go wild folks.

Let's be real though in that if Akira was done in New New York, you don't think people would be screaming at WB about whitewashing?

 

[wandering]

Did you see specifically what her issues was? That she was told they were only casting ethnically Chinese people for the roles and since she was Korean she understood, and yet they cast a half White/half Chinese as one of the male leads. They also cast a half White /half Japanese in one of the roles however she wasn't made aware of that to speak on it.

Yeah, I'm aware, there's been discussion about it on the Asian American corners of the internet.

The male character is actually part-white in the book. As for Sonoya Mizuno there's more of a point.

But the whole controversy over hapas (half-Asians) playing Asian characters is just a giant can of worms that only ever leaves everyone upset. I don't think Chung handled that question very well.

 

[HeatBoost]

They already made plenty of live action Death Note featuring Japanese actors in Japan.

This isn't like Ghost in the Shell. They're not trying to have their cake and eat it too. This is more like when they remake samurai movies as westerns because y'know, they're adapting it for a different setting and audience.

Unfortunately, legitimacy does not speak to whether it will be good or not. Cuz it probably won't be. Death Note is kind of 25% comedy as it is, so adding a layer of self serious Hollywood to it isn't likely to help.

 

[Carn82]

I generally think of whitewashing in these contexts as when you're casting white actors as characters who are (or ought to be) of other ethnicities. So like the recent Ghost in the Shell, or the Egyptians in Exodus, or the leads in 21, or Emma Stone in Aloha.

If you're changing the setting from the adapted work, then it makes sense that you also would change the type of actors you cast. That's what happened with examples people have already mentioned in this thread like The Departed, The Ring, The Magnificent Seven, or The Handmaiden.

That's pretty much my opinion as well. Its the same with theater plays. A lot Shakespeare's work has been retold in thousands of variations, but all in a changed context. Being able to retell a great story in a new way is a great achievement, if you can make it relevant to whatever goal your aiming for. Retelling a story and changing very little about it isn't impressive, and might even be insulting.

 

[lightskintwin]

Let's be real though in that if Akira was done in New New York, you don't think people would be screaming at WB about whitewashing?

The point is there shouldn't be. However you're right there will be outrage. We've come to the point that any popular Japanese anime/mange that gets adapted to America and stars predominately White leads is Whitewashing.

 

[HStallion]

If you did the basic idea of Kenshin, but transposed it to post-American Civil War, then go wild folks.

This is actually kind of amazing sounding. The analogue of Shishio as a burned up and bandaged like a mummy ex confederate ultimate man killer would be kind of awesome and silly to see on the big screen all at the same time.

 

[bobbychalkers]

Its nowhere near as egregious as GITS to me since it is an adaption set in the US. Them still using Kira is weird though.

Would still love to see more Asian American actors get leading roles.

 

[lightskintwin]

Yeah, I'm aware, there's been discussion about it on the Asian American corners of the internet.

The male character is actually part-white in the book. As for Sonoya Mizuno there's more of a point.

But the whole controversy over hapas (half-Asians) playing Asian characters is just a giant can of worms that only ever leaves everyone upset. I don't think Chung handled that question very well.

I bet at the bolded, due to how contentious it can get in African American communities about casting Black folks with "Half Breeds". LOL However it's good that we're getting to deal with all of that now as more Asian Americans get cast in Hollywood films.

 

[jack_package_200]

The point is there shouldn't be. However you're right there will be outrage. We've come to the point that any popular Japanese anime/mange that gets adapted to America and stars predominately White leads is Whitewashing.

What I find interesting is Robert Rodriguez's adaptation of Alita: Battle Angel flew totally under the radar.

 

[More_Badass]

I dunno. It feels kind of flimsy to me. Do people really care if a movie is set in Seattle and not Tokyo? And if people do, does it make it okay to whitewash a movie, change the setting and race of all the people involved, because it will sell more?

Maybe I wasn't really paying attention at the time, but I don't recall Edge of Tomorrow being criticized

 

[Admiral Woofington]

how can anyone complain the psychotic superiority complex self righteous prick is this 4chan internet era looking white kid. That's perfect casting for a western version.

 

[HStallion]

Maybe I wasn't really paying attention at the time, but I don't recall Edge of Tomorrow being criticized

It was such a loose adaptation I don't think anyone cared. They didn't even keep the original name because of the Engrish though its basically a play on the song All You Need is Love. Aside from the basic sci fi premise of scifi alien invasion and time travel with a love story between a rookie soldier and a hardened bad ass lady it was really different.

 

[Chocolate & Vanilla]

I can understand the location change as it's being made for an American audience, but why couldn't Light Yagami be an Asian-American living in Seattle instead of a white dude?

 

[Nirolak]

Is Magnificent Seven whitewashing?

This is an adaptation. Like the The Departed or Edge of Tomorrow. If you're going to adapt a property to another region, do it.

Don't half-step or adapt and then back your way into a half-step like GITS.

Now, do I think these properties should cast the net wider to offer more Asian-American representation? Yes, as that's a problem in Hollywood. But this isn't what I'd called whitewashing per se.

Like, if you did Rurouni Kenshin straight up in Japan, but cast Kenshin a white man, that's whitewashing. If you did the basic idea of Kenshin, but transposed it to post-American Civil War, then go wild folks.

It's an adaptation. Just like Park Chan-Wook's "The Handmaiden" is an adaptation of of the book Fingersmith that's set in Victorian England with White characters.

So on this note, I think they would get less flack if they renamed the film.

All four examples here use different names to assert they're not the same story, whereas Death Note keeps the same name.

 

[lightskintwin]

It was such a loose adaptation I don't think anyone cared. They didn't even keep the original name because of the Engrish though its basically a play on the song All You Need is Love.

Let's keep it real, nobody ever heard of that light novel and had no idea it was an adaptation. People care when it's a popular anime/manga.

So on this note, I think they would get less flack if they renamed the film.

All four examples here use different names to assert they're not the same story, whereas Death Note keeps the same name.

The title of Death Note sill makes sense in the American adaptation. It's a perfect name that sums up the premise of the film.

 

[Jarmel]

So on this note, I think they would get less flack if they renamed the film.

All four examples here use different names to assert they're not the same story, whereas Death Note keeps the same name.

Now that's interesting. If they did Death Note and renamed it, would people care essentially?

 

[HeatBoost]

They shouldn't adapt Akira and call it Akira. Akira is a story of Japanese teen rebellion in the with a bunch of post apocalyptic scifi dystopia.

If you're gonna lower the Japanese content levels, don't even use the same title. If it's a decent adaptation (and not just trying to cash in on the name) it should be able to stand without it.

 

[NimbusD]

WTF? Lmao they did an 'extensive' search for Asian actors and the ones they found didnt speak English? Am I misunderstanding something? Or do I not know what extensive means?

 

[Nirolak]

Let's keep it real, nobody ever heard of that light novel and had no idea it was an adaptation. People care when it's a popular anime/manga.



The title of Death Note sill makes sense in the American adaptation. It's a perfect name that sums up the premise of the film.

If it says Death Note on the box, I don't think it's weird that people would expect it to match the original.

Just look at what happens over on gaming when they announce Syndicate as a shooter or a Metroid game that looks nothing like Metroid.

People put lots of value in names and what they represent.

 

[old manatee]

WTF? Lmao they did an 'extensive' search for Asian actors and the ones they found didnt speak English? Am I misunderstanding something? Or do I not know what extensive means?

Their hands are tied. Asians can't act. Apparently.

 

[PdotMichael]

It's some crazy stuff to defend not hiring American Asians for a movie because it's an American adaptation. GAF should know it better.

 

[EatinOlives]

Whitewashing, much like racism, seems to be quantum locked.

 

[Shanlei91]

Masi Oka, another of the film's producers, previously defended the casting in an interview with Entertainment Weekly in November, though he said the staff was conscious of the issue. "Our casting directors did an extensive search to get Asian actors," he said, "But we couldn't find the right person, the actors we did go to didn't speak the perfect English… and the characters had been rewritten."

Well, if Hiro Nakamura, master of time and space, says it's not white washing then I'll believe it's not.

 

[lightskintwin]

If it says Death Note on the box, I don't think it's weird that people would expect it to match the original.

Just look at what happens over on gaming when they announce Syndicate as a shooter or a Metroid game that looks nothing like Metroid.

People put lots of value in names and what they represent.

Plenty of adaptations use the same name, often times the names get changed when it doesn't make sense culturally or it's not a marketable name.

It's some crazy stuff to defend not hiring American Asians for a movie because it's an American adaptation. GAF should know it better.

I'm all for more Asian American casting, but just because an Asian property is adapted to America, doesn't mean Asian Americans have to be cast or else it's white washing as some people suggest .

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I find this semantics battle over whitewashing/adaptation to be tiresome when it just obscures the actual issue of significant roles for Asian actors; adapting this to the U.S. does not preclude them from casting an Asian lead. Whether you want to call something an adaptation or not, this will remain an issue and that's frustrating when people are going to use "well it's an adaptation!" to say that Death Note is fine and we should pick our battles elsewhere and then proceed to stay silent on the issue and not help pick those battles that are supposed to be "worthwhile." Whitewashing controversies are basically the only time Asian casting comes up so if you all are gonna be down for the cause then don't just stop at shutting down the controversies you feel aren't valid, hm?

And I'm also real tired of this strawman that says people who criticize the casting for movies like this want EVERY role/every SIGNIFICANT role to be an Asian person. As far as I'm concerned you all can cast whoever the hell else you want as long as there's a lead in there somewhere and you change the setting.

Maybe Paul Nakauchi's gonna have a big supporting role in this adaptation and they at least gave Asians that but I kinda doubt it.

So on this note, I think they would get less flack if they renamed the film.

All four examples here use different names to assert they're not the same story, whereas Death Note keeps the same name.

But that would mean they can't drum up ticket sales by trading on the name value of an Asian property only without those pesky Asians in the lead.

 

[WarRock]

So on this note, I think they would get less flack if they renamed the film.

All four examples here use different names to assert they're not the same story, whereas Death Note keeps the same name.

I do agree, naming means a lot. Someone mentioned that people would complain about whitewashing if Akira was in NY. Yeah, it's being called Akira. That carries a lot of baggage.

On a similar note, Battle Angel Alita, also mentioned, flew under the radar because of its name; nobody in the mainstream audience knows about it. There isn't that much baggage compared to Akira. That is also the case for some already existing adaptations, I think, like Oldboy.

 

[Nirolak]

Plenty of adaptations use the same name, often times the names get changed when it doesn't make sense culturally or it's not a marketable name.



I'm all for more Asian American casting, but just because an Asian property is adapted to America, doesn't mean Asian Americans have to be cast or else it's white washing as some people suggest .

Does it matter if they're ultimately upsetting their audience?

The original name is neither marketable nor a good fit for the culture if it makes the discussion of your film overwhelmingly about how it doesn't star Asian people.

 

[PdotMichael]

I'm all for more Asian American casting, but just because an Asian property is adapted to America, doesn't mean Asian Americans have to be cast as some people suggest.

Your posts in this thread don't support that claim.

It's completely okay to expect that Hollywood would maybe try to hire Asian Americans for IPs where the crucial core base is aware about the Asian origin of the original. If Asian Americans don't get a chance in such kind of movies then we can't expect to see more Asian Americans in other kind of movies.

 

[BlackGoku03]

I pray that I can tell people this movie is how anime adaptions should be made. This is not a case of whitewashing when it's being adapted. It's set in a different country and represents the racial makeup of the area.

If you can't see the difference, you're looking for something to be mad at.

If you want to see Japanese actors in the role, see the Japanese live action. I think it's really cool we have those options now.

What difference would it have made in the context of the film? Literally none.

Exactly.

 

[Nirolak]

I pray that I can tell people this movie is how anime adaptions should be made. This is not a case of whitewashing when it's being adapted. It's set in a different country and represents the racial makeup of the area.

If you can't see the difference, you're looking for something to be mad at.

If you want to see Japanese actors in the role, see the Japanese live action. I think it's really cool we have those options now.




Exactly.

Okay, but Seattle is 17% Asian.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

The big good guy is black. Honestly can't call this whitewashing.

 

[Ridley327]

WTF? Lmao they did an 'extensive' search for Asian actors and the ones they found didnt speak English? Am I misunderstanding something? Or do I not know what extensive means?

No, they couldn't find one that spoke fluent-enough English, with the implication being that they were trying to find native Japanese actors for the film. That being said, there is also an unfortunate implication that they didn't try to grab Asian-American actors instead, which is not the greatest look when they're already struggling as it is when compared to other ethnic groups in the Hollywood acting world. One step forward, one step back, I feel.

 

[StrangeRoboMemory]

This feels more like an adaptation...it's taking the story and completely re-making it for an American audience, like The Ring, which was alluded to, or many other films like Insomnia, The Secret in Their Eyes, Let the Right One In, Funny Games, or any number of American films based on foreign comics or books. Death Note is a beloved property so I understand why people feel protective, but this doesn't seem like whitewashing to me. As far as I can tell, it isn't like they're passing off a white actor as a Japanese character. What they're doing may be uninteresting and boring, but it's not the same as Ghost in the Shell, where ScarJo was seemingly going to play a character called Motoko Kusanagi (although yeah, the film tried to deal with that baggage, but in an incredibly odd and flat way).

That being said, it's incredible bullshit to say that they tried to find Asian actors, but no one could speak proper English. Los Angeles, New York, any acting hubs in the United States are *filled* with great Asian-American or Asian national actors who can speak flawless English and would have done an incredible job. Oka's comments are ridiculous and just as bad as whitewashing in a way. Really gross. I'm kind of shocked that Oka, of all people, would say this kind of thing. I can't believe that there weren't so many auditions in his past that he nailed and never got, because he didn't have "the right look", or that he didn't suffer through casting directors telling him that they needed an accent and all that kind of stuff. Success can make people forget, I guess.

Just admit from the beginning that you didn't want an Asian cast. This sort of "we tried and it was impossible to find anyone" is insulting as hell.

 

[hodayathink]

Its nowhere near as egregious as GITS to me since it is an adaption set in the US. Them still using Kira is weird though.

Would still love to see more Asian American actors get leading roles.

Yeah ,it's TV, but in Orphan Black, the lead character's kid is named Kira. It's not a horribly uncommon name in the West.

 

[Chocolate & Vanilla]

I pray that I can tell people this movie is how anime adaptions should be made. This is not a case of whitewashing when it's being adapted. It's set in a different country and represents the racial makeup of the area.

If you can't see the difference, you're looking for something to be mad at.

If you want to see Japanese actors in the role, see the Japanese live action. I think it's really cool we have those options now.




Exactly.

There are Americans of Asian descent. How would casting one in the led not represent the racial makeup of the location?

 

[Deepwater]

if anything a white kira makes even more sense

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I pray that I can tell people this movie is how anime adaptions should be made. This is not a case of whitewashing when it's being adapted. It's set in a different country and represents the racial makeup of the area.

If you can't see the difference, you're looking for something to be mad at.

If you want to see Japanese actors in the role, see the Japanese live action. I think it's really cool we have those options now.

This crap is like a hop and skip away from "go back to where you came from."

There are Asians in America. They shouldn't have to look to the media of a foreign country to see themselves represented all the time.

Statements like these are predicated on the notion that no Asian people can possibly be from around here and that they're all automatically foreigners. People really need to put that shit out of their minds because it's racist as fuck.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I dunno. It feels kind of flimsy to me. Do people really care if a movie is set in Seattle and not Tokyo? And if people do, does it make it okay to whitewash a movie, change the setting and race of all the people involved, because it will sell more?

You are asking if it's acceptable to make changes in adapting a work for the screen, and yes, it always is. That's not whitewashing. How situations of adaptation have gotten conflated with whitewashing is beyond me.

You can start arguing quota-based casting based on its setting, I guess, if that's what you want to rumble about, but taking this attitude to its logical conclusion no country outside a work's country of origin would be allowed to adaptations. As has been brought up many times in other threads, you couldn't do "The Departed" or "The Good, The Bad, and the Weird", et al.

 

[HStallion]

If Hollywood adapts a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 1 movie they should cast all Asian actors.

 

[jack_package_200]

If Hollywood adapts a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 1 movie they should cast all Asian actors.

No actor alive could ever be able to perfectly portray Dio.

 

[Killer Queen]

If Hollywood adapts a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 1 movie they should cast all Asian actors.

I always think about how people would respond to this one, considering people constantly argue that all anime characters Should be Japanese in live action

Spoiler

Despite the first two JoJos being white Englishman one living in England and the other in the states

and how many people would tell whitewashing should they be cast white.