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Live-Action Death Note Film's Producer Responds to Whitewashing Controversy
- Thread starter KSweeley
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The Silver
Member
Did I say no chance? No I didn't, I said harder. The point is that Light was already like that from the start, he grew up in a middle upper class sheltered environment that helped him to becoming an 18 year old not even out of high school entitled brat who sincerly believed he was better than everyone to the point he became depressed being surrounded by all the plebs and felt he was the only one alive who could fix the world's problem. This guy didn't even go through any kind of journey like a Walter White, like 15 minutes after first using the book he proclaims himself a god.
He was always the megalomaniac who saw the world as a bunch of nails needing to be hammered, he just needed a hammer.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
You have to read what they're saying
Not Asian American. Asian. Like...you know how Hollywood likes to stick either Chinese locations or famous Chinese actors into movies like Transformers? To have that much more audience. Maybe in this case it was trying to find a Japanese born actor and not just a Japanese-American actor. Maybe it was a Chinese actor and they would release it in China as a wide release. But their wording is very specific.
That's what I assume atleast, from what they're saying and how they're saying it.
lightskintwin
Banned
In terms of examples of foreign adaptations of American films:
Zhang Yimou's A Simple Story or internationally known as A Woman, a Gun and a Noodle Shop is a Chinese adaptation of Coen Brothers Blood Simple
The Nest is a French adaptation of Assault on Precinct 13
Stork Day is an Italian adaptation of Groundhog Day
Saidoweizu is a Japanese adaptation of Sidways
Mean Machine is a British adaptation of The Longest Yard
Connected is a Hong Kong adaptation of Cellular
In terms of movies set in American or involve Americans that don't have White people playing the lead role:
Rum Punch is an Elmore Leonard novel that Tarantino adapted and changed the lead character from a White woman named Jackie Burke to a Black woman named Jackie Brown, set it in Los Angeles instead of Florida, and entrenched it in Blaxploitation influences with the tone, characters, dialogue and music to create something that was still faithful to the source material but stylistically his own.
Another example is Tony Scott's Man on Fire which they adapted from a novel where Creasy was a White American and former member of the French Foreign legion and it's completely set in Italy with Italian characters and names, Italian cities and culture, and the Italian Mafia and changed it to a Black American who's an ex-United States Special Operations soldier completely set in Mexico with Mexican characters and names, Mexican cities and culture as well as American culture, and a Mexican Criminal Organization named "La Hermandad". Even the Italian character of Pinta is paid homage to and changed to the Spanish name of Lupita, Pita for short.
This is closest to how I feel. Hell, I think that casting Asian American guy for this role might unintentionally reinforce the demasculinized Asian male stereotype.
Yeah, but what white person is going to give up their opportunity for money making power and let Asians into those positions? It's going to take time and I don't think there will be much progress.
And I also have to say that I am tired of the adaptations excuse. It's just becoming another reason to exclude minorities from film roles. This is really starting to sound like it's okay to be racist and not cast minorities because it's an adaptation and no minorities live in so and so location in the US. A very flimsy excuse, imo.
Actually, I did read the OP. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote instead of pointing at the OP as if that justifies your opinion... whatever that is.
Yeah, but why do adaptations from Hollywood 90%+ (I made this figure up) have to star white people? Why is the default to go to a white actor? There are many different minorities who also live in the US and surely Hollywood can incorporate them into movies.
Heck, to counter your argument, what about all the black faces and yellow faces in Hollywood history? What about all those white actors who portray minorities? That's another issue. Then you have whitewashing of roles, regardless if the story calls for it or not. Actually, why should race be a central part of the story? Why can't a person like a Hispanic or an African or someone else besides white who can play Light? Why does Light make sense to you as a white person? What does his whiteness have to do with the character?
Killer Queen
Banned
I did.
And if you read the OP it would make no sense for you to be complaining about what you did. Unless you're being intentionally ignorant?
hodayathink
Member
The producer responsible for the quotes in the OP is Asian. And again, should they have cast Asian leads in The Departed?
MHWilliams
Member
Uh, I wouldn't go that far. The truth is that either character could easily be Asian-American.
Within the confines of Iron Fist I argued that Rand could be Asian American as a counterpoint to those who insisted that he has to white. He doesn't have to be. Likewise, Light could easily be of Asian descent in the Death Note adaptation and others argue that starting with an Asian property means you have a stronger opportunity to cast of Asian descent.
I don't necessarily disagree, though this can lead to stringent adaptional ideas which shut minorities out of roles based on material created when "white" was the operational default.
Honestly, Hollywood could avoid half of this if they were far more open in the casting process across everything.
lightskintwin
Banned
Once again Death Note had 3 out 4 of the producers were Asian Americans (Roy Lee, Dan Lin, and Masi Oka) and they had final say on the cast. They cast a White guy as Light, and a Black guy as L. They did cast an Asian American as Watari and Masi Oka is playing a role in the film too.
I agree with your adaptations concern, but ultimately it's their money they're putting up to make the film they want to make.
People are literally buying that shit. You can tell what kind of bubble they keep themselves in if they think asian americans actors who speak fluent english is a hard thing to find.
MHWilliams
Member
I mean, it could be argued that Asian-American producers going along with the Hollywood standard is still a part of the problem.
lightskintwin
Banned
The producers who said it are Asian American. LOL
I agree, and have been stated actual change could've started there because there are several successful Asian American/Western producers and directors who are fine maintaining the status quo instead of challenging it.
Killer Queen
Banned
or they found actors they felt fit the roles they were casting and used them.
lightskintwin
Banned
I think it's because they're from the older guard who weren't socially conscious of this issue, as opposed to the younger generation of Asian Americans who are woke and will create changes on their own.
I anticipate a renaissance of Asian American films that's already starting to happen.
Jest Chillin
Member
"And had to rewrite the characters" is the part of the quote that everyone seems to be leaving out that is oddest to me.
If they were auditioning Asian American actors for a film set in the US... why would they have to rewrite the characters?
Don't get me wrong, the quote stating they couldn't find Asian actors that speak perfect English is a massive red flag... but that rewrite the characters part makes me think the dude worded the statement the worst way possible.
If they were auditioning Asian American actors for a film set in the US... why would they have to rewrite the characters?
Don't get me wrong, the quote stating they couldn't find Asian actors that speak perfect English is a massive red flag... but that rewrite the characters part makes me think the dude worded the statement the worst way possible.
MHWilliams
Member
Again, I don't necessarily disagree, but that justification has been used to shut out minority actors and actresses in the past and I understand why it not only raises red flags, but sounds like bunk to some people.
lightskintwin
Banned
Plus I'm of the belief if you really wanted to cast an Asian American in the role, you could've found a qualified Asian American in the role.
Maybe it's you who isn't understanding my point. I'm not sure if you're being intentionally ignorant.
It doesn't matter if the producers are Asian. The problem is still there. Heck, this gives more concern since people keep arguing that Asians should be in positions of power to create change in the industry and we still get white people getting casted over Asians.
And why shouldn't the Departed have done Asian people in it? I'm not saying make the whole cast Asian. Just put some diversity in there rather than having an almost entirely white cast.
Yeah, it's their money, but that doesn't mean that they should get a free pass for the racist decisions that they make. I wouldn't be as concerned about this if the things they produce didn't have such a societal impact on people's lives.
Does anyone in America use "note" to refer to a notebook, though? I remember thinking that sounded strange when I first read it.
FatCatAttack
Member
The notion that the nature of the adaption makes things "okay" by how removed it is from the source material is a crock. Hollywood doesn't give a shit or cares to make a distinction. You've had movies based on true stories that involved PoC's get white washed like 21, which was based on Asian students doing card counting. You've also had intellectual properties that were Asian out the wazoo, like the The Last Airbender, which got white washed. TLA has a literal Asian boy shaolin monk as a main character alongside two distinctly brown Inuit kids and all of them got casted as bright lily white in the live action movie.
Debating about the source material is just the classic nerd blunder of diving down into irrelevant rabbit holes. The issue has nothing to do with accuracy with regards to the source material. The issue is one of social justice that is HIGHLIGHTED by the nature of the source material.
For minorities to get roles there has to be a...justification for their presence. Otherwise, they aren't as likely to get in. The classic justification for a lot of black actors, for example, has been the Black Friend that says "dayum" a lot and gets eaten by the monster, or the wise old (and thus non-threatening with regards to sexual power) black man who gives the white hero advice, OR the magical black character who facilitates the white protag with some mystical mcguffin. In the case of a lot of Stephen King stories it's all of the above! For Asians the go to's has been either kung fu expert or racist butt of joke. Both were complained about and the former complaint was answered in true monkey paw fashion since now Asians don't even get martial arts roles anymore.
The heroic Karate man has been thoroughly appropriated by white dudes (i.e. Iron Fist).
The indignities that occur to minority actors often go unheard of. Jack Yang, was told to his face by production, that he didn't get accepted for a role because "he was too handsome to play an Asian man." Try to parse how a human being can say that to another without realizing how insane that is. You are so good looking that you can't represent the race you are in real life? These IP's are chosen to speak out about diverse casting because it's easier to draw battle lines here. Aside from a few leaks about racist casting practices, we don't know how many regular roles that minorities get shut out from. Shows like Death Note get chosen to talk about this stuff because the Asian origin of the story is the justification angle that minorities use as leverage for better representation. It doesn't matter that it's in Seattle (Asian Americans are sprinkled everywhere in the U.S.). It doesn't matter if they change the name the of the show. What matters to people is that representation for people is shit, and if no one says or does anything it will continue to be shit forever.
Debating about the source material is just the classic nerd blunder of diving down into irrelevant rabbit holes. The issue has nothing to do with accuracy with regards to the source material. The issue is one of social justice that is HIGHLIGHTED by the nature of the source material.
For minorities to get roles there has to be a...justification for their presence. Otherwise, they aren't as likely to get in. The classic justification for a lot of black actors, for example, has been the Black Friend that says "dayum" a lot and gets eaten by the monster, or the wise old (and thus non-threatening with regards to sexual power) black man who gives the white hero advice, OR the magical black character who facilitates the white protag with some mystical mcguffin. In the case of a lot of Stephen King stories it's all of the above! For Asians the go to's has been either kung fu expert or racist butt of joke. Both were complained about and the former complaint was answered in true monkey paw fashion since now Asians don't even get martial arts roles anymore.
The heroic Karate man has been thoroughly appropriated by white dudes (i.e. Iron Fist).
The indignities that occur to minority actors often go unheard of. Jack Yang, was told to his face by production, that he didn't get accepted for a role because "he was too handsome to play an Asian man." Try to parse how a human being can say that to another without realizing how insane that is. You are so good looking that you can't represent the race you are in real life? These IP's are chosen to speak out about diverse casting because it's easier to draw battle lines here. Aside from a few leaks about racist casting practices, we don't know how many regular roles that minorities get shut out from. Shows like Death Note get chosen to talk about this stuff because the Asian origin of the story is the justification angle that minorities use as leverage for better representation. It doesn't matter that it's in Seattle (Asian Americans are sprinkled everywhere in the U.S.). It doesn't matter if they change the name the of the show. What matters to people is that representation for people is shit, and if no one says or does anything it will continue to be shit forever.
This adaptation is actually an allegory for tipping.
Jest Chillin
Member
I always took the name to refer to that he's writing Notes that kill. Never saw the show though.
SolidusDave
Member
I'm waiting for someone to post that whitewashing Bingo-chart that was posted here to smother any discussion that didn't agree with GitS being a racist pile of shit; now adapted to Lee's response.
lightskintwin
Banned
I agree the problem is still there but that's why it's important for marginalized people in White dominated industries like Hollywood to be socially conscious in order to enable change on their own rather than be oblivious of it and simply be another cog in the machine contributing to more White led films.
In the case of The Departed you're arguing the dreaded "diversity for diversity's sake" LOL when in this specific instance it didn't fit the specific setting, tone, and people of Martin Scorsese's vision.
Their decisions were racial, however I wouldn't call them racist. However who has more invested in seeing Asian American faces on the screens? They're probably the ones that are going to take the supposed "risks" in casting them as leads in their films.
Gits was actually pretty bad in this regard though?
Jest Chillin
Member
It's a book the dude writes in.
I know the power comes from the book but Death Note being a Proper Name for the book or a reference to what he does to kill is pretty interchangeable. So the suggestion that "Death Note" doesn't work as a title because the Western World doesn't refer to Notebooks as "Notes" is weird. The title works in either context.
As far as I know, the new movie also refers to the book as the Death Note, so the name is still referring to the object.
SoulUnison
Banned
C'mon, man. We're talking about an adaptation that's intended for people who have no exposure to the series yet and you come in and just casually drop major spoilers?
not psycho
Member
I agree either could be, just that if you go by the concept of the project rather than the origin, it would be more natural to make Iron Fist Asian-American than Light.
Then again, the article writer from Better Luck Tomorrow might make a good Light. Handsome but with a level of deception that makes you wary. Come to think of it, Better Luck Tomorrow was about Asian-Americans who aren't suspected of their crimes, which could be used for Death Note too. Light being white is the most natural adaptation, since he was always an arrogant majority character with family connections. But it could be set in a majority Asian-American neighborhood. One flaw with that is it might make it too easy to root for Light, if he is now a minority and still pulling off everything under the eyes of a white majority law enforcement.
I'm not giving any passes here, just saying that casting for adaptations shouldn't have to follow the ethnicity of the original source material. That's a general principle and doesn't mean GITS was ok, or even Death Note ok, let alone the more extreme cases.
Killer Queen
Banned
The story is more than a decade old.
Jest Chillin
Member
That doesn't really matter though. My point is the name won't be confusing to Western audiences.
I don't understand these types of adaptations. Why not just rip off the story and call it something else? They secure the rights to the property, then change it to please who exactly? If they are using the name to appeal to fans, wouldn't the fans want a close adaptation to the original source? I don't know, might just be me.
No one is suggesting that whitewashing doesn't exist in the industry as a whole, just that it doesn't apply in this instance. And I think the discussion has already moved beyond that fact, so let me repeat it - the production of Death Note did not involve whitewashing in any capacity. Unless something egregious comes to light when the movie is released, this statement seems irrefutable.
SoulUnison
Banned
And this is an adaptation specifically designed to engage an audience that isn't familiar with it.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Adaptations can be a chance to fix issues in the original material. This movie should definitely try to avoid being super convoluted like the original.
Killer Queen
Banned
But this thread and all discussion about said film are not.
deltacanuckian
Member
The Ring was a fantastic remake though.
I'm not sure I understand what's wrong with the diversity for diversity's sake argument. The flip side is uniformity for uniformity's sake, and that has been done to death with the way Hollywood does its casting. And if there can be rewrites of Death Note to enable a white leading actor, why can't there be a rewrite to include more minorities in the movie? What is inherent about the movie that REQUIRES it to be dominantly white?
So racial decisions are not racist decisions? Considering the history of Hollywood, I find that hard to believe. I'm not looking at this from the perspective of one movie. Please look at the entire industry and history. Tell me that that is not racist in the least.
Killer Queen
Banned
the world doesn't only work in polar opposites
You're arguing that there are no minorities in a movie with a minority lead and a trailer that is all of 50 seconds long for a film you haven't seen.
Nothing, and there's nothing about the film that says it is, nor is anyone arguing that. Stop reaching.
lightskintwin
Banned
I was kinda mocking the diversity for diversity's sake which gets misused all the time, although in very small and specific cases I think there's actually merit to it such as the Bostonian White world of The Departed that Martin Scorsese decided to set his adaptation in.
Death Note has an African American, and 2 Asian Americans in the cast.
Not necessarily, but that doesn't mean racism doesn't play a part, however the biggest problem will always be Hollywood being a predominately White elitist institution filled with White execs, White producers, White screenwriters, White directors and casting directors, so even without racism they're naturally going to gravitate to creating White narrative films filled with White leads. There's a difference between exclusion and racist, ethnic stereotypical depictions.
MsKrisp
Member
I'm a little confused as to why people think they originally planned to make this English language, set in Japan. Why would they do that? From the article:
Which seems like pretty standard planning for an adaptation set in another locale. I seriously doubt they thought "hey lets just try to make this in Japan and everyone speaks English" and rewrote after lots of casting calls.
Which seems like pretty standard planning for an adaptation set in another locale. I seriously doubt they thought "hey lets just try to make this in Japan and everyone speaks English" and rewrote after lots of casting calls.
Zoe
Member
Because Masai Oka's comment is really fucked up if not.
Killer Queen
Banned
hodayathink
Member
It basically reads like they were trying to find an Asian actor to cast in one of the roles to help sell the movie to Asian markets, and when they couldn't find one, they just rewrote the role instead of attempting to find an Asian American instead. How messed up you think that is is up to you.
Doctor Decimate
Member
all the other more obvious ways it can be interpreted i would imagine
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