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[Arkeband]

If Masi Oka says they looked for Asian actors, that contests the largest rumor surrounding this that they straight up refused them.

Making L black (as the actor put it, "blackwashing") seems to make this less of a whitewashing situation and more of a de-Japanification, which is kind of the original intent of rewriting it for a western audience to make it "theirs".

I still say it makes more sense for the type of character Light is to be white if it's set in the U.S, I feel like it'd be lot harder to develop that massive of a god complex as a minority, unless you're like obscenly rich and famous which Light wasn't.

And it makes a lot of sense if the good guy who takes him down is a minority himself.

 

[lightskintwin]

Does it matter if they're ultimately upsetting their audience?

The original name isn't marketable if it makes the discussion of your film overwhelming about how it doesn't star Asian people.

Sure, but it doesn't help that these adaptations haven't been that good either.

Your posts in this thread don't support that claim.

It's completely okay to expect that Hollywood would maybe try to hire Asian Americans for IPs where the crucial core base is aware about the Asian origin of the original. If Asian Americans don't get a chance in such kind of movies then we can't expect to see more Asian Americans in other kind of movies.

You're talking about systemic issues within Hollywood that Hollywood doesn't consider an issue to begin with, which are separate to American adaptations of foreign countries IP's. There's a massive difference between the erasure of Asian Americans for White actors in the film 21 and the American Adaptation of All you Need is Kill and it's casting.

The problem with what you're suggesting is that all American adaptions should cast according to the countries/racial/ethnic origin defeats the purpose of making it an American adaptation when it could just let that country make their own film.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Did they turn Kira into an actual name and not the English word "killer" applied to an unknown individual?

I don't know anything about this property. I assumed it was the name of a character?

 

[PdotMichael]

You're talking about systemic issues within Hollywood that Hollywood doesn't consider an issue to begin with, which are separate to American adaptations of foreign countries IP's. There's a massive difference between the erasure of Asian Americans for White actors in the film 21 and the American Adaptation of All you Need is Kill and it's casting.

The problem with what you're suggesting is that all American adaptions should cast according to the countries/racial/ethnic origin defeats the purpose of making it an American adaptation when it could just let that country make their own film.

Increasing the amount of Asian Americans from zero to a little more isn't the hyperbolic "all characters in anime/manga related IPs need to be Japanese". What a weird defence and everything just to support racism in Hollywood.

 

[Killer Queen]

I don't know anything about this property. I assumed it was the name of a character?

It's the name that the internet gave the main character as like, a deity.

 

[The Silver]

I still say it makes more sense for the type of character Light is to be white if it's set in the U.S, I feel like it'd be lot harder to develop that massive of a god complex as a minority, unless you're like obscenly rich and famous which Light wasn't.

 

[lightskintwin]

Increasing the amount of Asian Americans from zero to a little more isn't the hyperbolic "all characters in anime/manga related IPs need to be Japanese". What a weird defence and everything just to support racism in Hollywood.

That wasn't my point. My point once again is just because a foreign countries property is adapted to America doesn't mean it has to cast according to that countries/racial/ethnic origin. Agree, Disagree? That's separate than me also believing we should do a better job with Asian American casting.

 

[PdotMichael]

That wasn't my point. My point once again is just because a foreign countries property is adapted to America doesn't mean it has to cast according to that countries/racial/ethnic origin. Agree, Disagree? That's separate than me believing we should do a better job with Asian American casting.

That Asian Americans complain about the lack of visibility in Hollywood movie is absolutely correct and deserve support. Defending the practices of Hollywood with stuff like this is an American adaptation is pure cynicism and offensive, it's kind of crazy and sad that the shit can fly on GAF.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

This and Edge of Tomorrow are perfectly fine, Ghost in the Shell however is exactly the wrong way to do it.

 

[WarRock]

I still say it makes more sense for the type of character Light is to be white if it's set in the U.S, I feel like it'd be lot harder to develop that massive of a god complex as a minority, unless you're like obscenly rich and famous which Light wasn't.

Eh. Light has an ego because he is intelligent as fuck and gets a supernatural power. If you are a minority and become able to kill anyone anywhere without leaving trace, there is no chance to develop a complex?

 

[shinra-bansho]

Does he explain the uglywashing?

 

[lightskintwin]

That Asian Americans complain about the lack of visibility in Hollywood movie is absolutely correct and deserve support. Defending the practices of Hollywood with stuff like this is an American adaptation is pure cynicism and offensive, it's kind of crazy and sad that the shit can fly on GAF.

It's not crazy and sad, because people are misusing the term Whitewashing. In this particular instance the producers claimed they auditioned Asian actors for these roles but they didn't cut it. These are Asian American producers claiming this. Are you outraged and offended by that? Because the quickest way for change is behind the camera, where you can have Asian Americans making decisions on who to cast as in the case of Death Note and yet they went with a White lead in this American adaptation.

 

[Nirolak]

It's not crazy and sad, because people are misusing the term Whitewashing. In this particular instance the producers claimed they auditioned Asian actors for these roles but they didn't cut it. These are Asian American producers claiming this. Are you outraged and offended by that? Because the quickest way for change is behind the camera, where you can have Asian Americans making decisions on who to cast as in the case of Death Note and yet they went with a White lead in this American adaptation.

The thing that's weird here though is that they said the Asian actors couldn't speak English correctly, which... I mean do you actually believe they couldn't find Asian American actors who could speak English correctly?

If they gave different reasons, this would sound more believable than what they've provided here.

Like imagine if they said they couldn't cast Black people in an American adaptation of an African story because all the Black people they interviewed spoke in Ebonics.

 

[PdotMichael]

It's not crazy and sad, because people are misusing the term Whitewashing. In this particular instance the producers claimed they auditioned Asian actors for these roles but they didn't cut it. These are Asian American producers claiming this. Are you outraged and offended by that? Because the quickest way for change is behind the camera, where you can have Asian Americans making decisions on who to cast as in the case of Death Note and yet they went with a White lead in this American adaptation.

Claiming that they can't find people with Asian origin who can speak perfect English is indeed offensive and insulting.

 

[lightskintwin]

The thing that's weird here though is that they said the Asian actors couldn't speak English correctly, which... I mean do you actually believe they couldn't find Asian American actors who could speak English correctly?

If they gave different reasons, this would sound more believable than what they've provided here.

Like imagine if they said they couldn't cast Black people in an American adaptation of the legend of Gilgamesh because all the Black people they interviewed spoke in Ebonics.

Yeah, it's a pretty wild statement. I honestly had to read it again, because I couldn't believe what one of the Asian American producers were saying. To be honest, it sounded like a quick defense amidst scrutiny about their casting decisions.

 

[Killer Queen]

I don't think they meant that every Asian actor they found couldn't speak perfect English, but rather it was one of the problems, the other being they just couldn't find someone they felt fit the role.

 

[unpopularblargh]

Can I ask a question that is somewhat off topic specific to Death Note?

Is there a similar issue of "whitewashing" in other countries when it comes to cinema? How prevalent are American to another country adaptations or movies set in America or involving Americans that don't have white people playing the role? Or the other possible scenarios.

I only really know the American side of this issue.

They made a Japanese version of Unforgiven with Ken Watanabe. Though I feel that's more akin to Infernal Affairs to The Departed.

 

[mjc]

Explain "Kira" then.

I know a white girl named Kira. Not that bizarre.

 

[Zhengi]

You know, adaptations can also star Asian leads. It's not like everyone in Seattle is white.

It is starting to seem that adaptations is the new way for Hollywood to continue to exclude minorities from film roles and people are unfortunately approving of this.

 

[kirblar]

The thing that's weird here though is that they said the Asian actors couldn't speak English correctly, which... I mean do you actually believe they couldn't find Asian American actors who could speak English correctly?

If they gave different reasons, this would sound more believable than what they've provided here.

Like imagine if they said they couldn't cast Black people in an American adaptation of an African story because all the Black people they interviewed spoke in Ebonics.

In the same phrase, he mentions that the script had also changed. I think they originally had this set in Japan but ultimately didn't go that direction.

You know, adaptations can also star Asian leads. It's not like everyone in Seattle is white.

It is starting to seem that adaptations is the new way for Hollywood to continue to exclude minorities from film roles and people are unfortunately approving of this.

Full cultural adaptations are anything but new.

 

[Chuck Norris]

The Death Note series has had extremely popular Japanese Anime, Manga and Live Action adaptations in Japanese.

Making an American based adaptation doesn't stop those from existing

It's like calling The Departed white washing. It's not, it's an adaptation of source material. And the Departed didn't stop Infernal Affairs from existing and being superior

 

[Zhengi]

Full cultural adaptations are anything but new.

That's fine. Might not be new, but definitely too readily accepted by people. This doesn't make a movie any less whitewashed. Minorities can also be in adaptations.

 

[lightskintwin]

You know, adaptations can also star Asian leads. It's not like everyone in Seattle is white.

It is starting to seem that adaptations is the new way for Hollywood to continue to exclude minorities from film roles and people are unfortunately approving of this.

I don't think anybody is questioning that these American adaptations couldn't have Asian leads because they could. I'm only saying they don't have too just because they're based off of a Japanese anime/manga. Obviously it's obnoxious when they cast predominately White but that's more of an issue of Hollywood being a predominately White elitist industry that primarily makes predominately White films.

That's why it's important for Asian Americans in decision making positions to challenge the system and lead the way in casting Asian Americans as leads instead of maintaining the status quo.

 

[Killer Queen]

That's fine. Might not be new, but definitely too readily accepted by people. This doesn't make a movie any less whitewashed. Minorities can also be in adaptations.

So you read the thread title, ignored the OP and now we're here.

 

[suzu]

Why were they looking at Asians who can't speak English and not Asian Americans who can?

I don't really think Death Note is white-washing, but that said, it doesn't mean Asian Americans can't be cast in this adaptation either.

Also, telling people they can go watch another country's movies (ex: Japan) doesn't help when we're talking about the representation of minority Americans in American movies.

Edit: Or hell, it doesn't even have to be an Asian actor specifically from America, so long as they can act and speak English in an American accent.. they can be from wherever.

 

[MHWilliams]

Let's be real though in that if Akira was done in New New York, you don't think people would be screaming at WB about whitewashing?

Of course they would. People complain about everything. Do you feel there's a thing people don't complain about? The focus isn't to stop complaints. It's to do the right thing.

This is actually kind of amazing sounding. The analogue of Shishio as a burned up and bandaged like a mummy ex confederate ultimate man killer would be kind of awesome and silly to see on the big screen all at the same time.

I'd honestly love it.

So on this note, I think they would get less flack if they renamed the film.

All four examples here use different names to assert they're not the same story, whereas Death Note keeps the same name.

Generally, I'd agree on that point.

The truth is, there are likely a number of Asian-American actors they could've cast for this role. Especially since Nat Wolff isn't exactly lighting up the charts as an amazing actor. I assume they're hoping the John Green universe films will give this some heat, but I'm not seeing the overlap.

That Asian Americans complain about the lack of visibility in Hollywood movie is absolutely correct and deserve support. Defending the practices of Hollywood with stuff like this is an American adaptation is pure cynicism and offensive, it's kind of crazy and sad that the shit can fly on GAF.

I believe lightskintwin is saying A) whitewashing and B) Asian-American representation in Hollywood, are two different concepts that are occasional intertwined in some cases.

I also believe they'd agree (perhaps erroneously):
1) A full adaptation can use folks of another race, given they are transposed to different regions. It's the difference between a real world translation like 21 or a straight adaptation of something like Avatar: The Last Airbender, versus a wholesale change of setting like Edge of Tomorrow.

2) Asian-Americans of all stripes (even within the triumvirate of Chinese, Korean, Japanese Americans) are underrepresented in Hollywood and that's a problem that needs to be addressed. Even full adaptation like Edge of Tomorrow could've cast an Asian-American in the role.

Oh so its totally different than the other whitewashings because they totally removed all of the asian influence and completely whitewashed everything

Given everything I wrote above, I can still agree that this probably stings and hurts hard as fuck for an Asian-American.

 

[WrenchNinja]

"Our casting directors did an extensive search to get Asian actors," he said, "But we couldn't find the right person, the actors we did go to didn't speak the perfect English… and the characters had been rewritten."

I don't think I can roll my eyes more at this garbage

 

[Htown]

I was with them, up until this:

"Our casting directors did an extensive search to get Asian actors," he said, "But we couldn't find the right person, the actors we did go to didn't speak the perfect English… and the characters had been rewritten."

Which is such obvious bullshit that I'm shocked.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The thing that's weird here though is that they said the Asian actors couldn't speak English correctly, which... I mean do you actually believe they couldn't find Asian American actors who could speak English correctly?

If they gave different reasons, this would sound more believable than what they've provided here.

Like imagine if they said they couldn't cast Black people in an American adaptation of an African story because all the Black people they interviewed spoke in Ebonics.

My guess is they were looking for a Japanese actor who could speak english, then they could set the movie in Japan with everyone speaking English.

But because they couldn't find an actor to do that, they just transplanted it to seattle.

 

[Kaze Kyou]

As an Asian born in a western country, the western adaptation of Death Note isn't offending me. Should I be offended?

It makes sense to re-adapt some of the material from the original as not all audiences will know the intricacies of Japanese society and culture. I'd imagine the scene where L deducts Light's location would fly over western audiences' heads as they won't be familiar with the different Japanese regions, for example.

The Departed is a perfect example of a Hollywood adaptation. While the Hong Kong original was simply sublime, remaking that very movie in a Boston setting would not have worked at all.

Now yellow-face and Emma Stone playing a character of Asian decent - that's stuff to get offended about. The outcry of Light being white seems more like Weeaboos getting offended that "greedy Hollywood fat cats" might potentially taint their golden series.

 

[Megalosaro]

Oh so its totally different than the other whitewashings because they totally removed all of the asian influence and completely whitewashed everything

If this were gaming side, it would be called "localization" and praised.

 

[firehawk12]

So GITS all over again?

 

[lightskintwin]

I don't think they meant that every Asian actor they found couldn't speak perfect English, but rather it was one of the problems, the other being they just couldn't find someone they felt fit the role.

Reading the quote yet again, this sounds like what the producer was trying to say yet clumsily failed at.

 

[Dark Ninja]

I liked GITS live action so Ill defend it there. This looks terrible and low budget so I wont. Fuck these guys for Whitewashing!

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So GITS all over again?

Nah. Unlike the GITS, they adapted it for a western audience, removed references to the Japanese version(IE GITS still had her named makoto and featured alot of Japanese references).

 

[Foggy]

Whitewashing is definitely an issue but this accusation appears to be ill fitting

 

[PSqueak]

Not saying that i agree with the producer 100%, but i always found really odd how people bitch about Light being casted white when they say "it's unfaithful" but stay silent about L being casted black.

 

[lightskintwin]

Not saying that i agree with the producer 100%, but i always found really odd how people bitch about Light being casted white when they say "it's unfaithful" but stay silent about L being casted black.

Probably because Whtie leads dominate Hollywood films so it was reinforcing the status quo, while the L casting was progressive and challenging it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This probably wouldn't be a huge deal (still a deal worth talking about though) until they admitted they couldn't find an Asian actor who spoke english..... which is just wtf

 

[not psycho]

You know, adaptations can also star Asian leads. It's not like everyone in Seattle is white.

Nobody is giving adaptations a pass. Compare Death Note to Iron Fist.

Death Note's main character blends in, has delusions of grandeur, has family government connections... he is part of the establishment and that limits how impressed we are with him. If he accomplished everything he does from a position of being a minority? It would hardly be the same character. And it would change the relationship with his adversary, who is an outsider.

On the other hand, Iron Fist wouldn't take much work to go from white to Asian-American.

So Iron Fist is a more natural and fitting choice to make Asian-American, even though the original was white. And Light is a more natural and fitting choice to make white, even though the original was Japanese.

It's about looking at the project itself, not merely the country of origin. Adaptations are done all over the world, not just Hollywood, and it has never been a thing that they had to match the ethnicity of the country of origin.


Having said that, the guy they got to play Light looks terrible. It will probably suck.

 

[PSqueak]

Probably because Whtie leads dominate Hollywood films so it was reinforcing the status quo, while the L casting was progressive and challenging it.

You see i understand this, but what i don't understand is when there is a disconnect on attacking the adaptation for casting a white in the lead while not acknowledging the added diversity by casting the other main character black, specially when people say "it's unfaithful".

People saying "There is too much white representation in roles originally for POC", that makes sense, that's a very valid criticism.

People going "white guy on the lead is unfaithful to the original, but im going to complain only about the white guy" is just odd.

 

[Bishop89]

I dunno. It feels kind of flimsy to me. Do people really care if a movie is set in Seattle and not Tokyo? And if people do, does it make it okay to whitewash a movie, change the setting and race of all the people involved, because it will sell more?

I dunno. Did the departed get criticised?

 

[PSqueak]

I dunno. Did the departed get criticised?

Geeks take their japanese cartoons more seriously than any other foreign medium.

 

[jWILL253]

Wayment...

So, I live in the Puget Sound region, specifically Tacoma, but I was born in Seattle, and frequently visit the Emerald City off and on. And as a native of the region, I can tell you there are plenty of Asian Americans who can speak fluent English, even if there's a slight tinge of an accent. Hell, all you have to do was visit UW or any level of colleges to find an Asian that can speak English.

You mean to tell me... with all that I just mentioned in mind... that they couldn't find ONE FUCKING ENGLISH-SPEAKING ASIAN to play Light, or any of the other natively Japanese characters?

Eat shit.

And don't give me the whole "it's an adaptation" line. Washing away the origins of your source material is still whitewashing. Just like they whitewashed the whole character of the Major in GitS, only applied to the entire film.

 

[Zoe]

If Masi Oka says they looked for Asian actors, that contests the largest rumor surrounding this that they straight up refused them.

All that shows is they tried out Asians, not Asian Americans.

I'm actually flabbergasted he said that out loud.

 

[lightskintwin]

You see i understand this, but what i don't understand is when there is a disconnect on attacking the adaptation for casting a white in the lead while not acknowledging the added diversity by casting the other main character black, specially when people say "it's unfaithful".

People saying "There is too much white representation in roles originally for POC", that makes sense, that's a very valid criticism.

People going "white guy on the lead is unfaithful to the original, but im going to complain only about the white guy" is just odd.

Plenty of people have issues with L being Black, however those people are probably fine with L being White too. LOL

 

[Count Dookkake]

Explain "Kira" then.

Lol.

I know a white woman pushing 70 with that name. Nice try.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

All that shows is they tried out Asians, not Asian Americans.

I'm actually flabbergasted he said that out loud.

Yeah. There are plenty of Asian Americans that can act and speak perfect english(IE Zachs actor from 13 reasons why.)

Him saying they looked for Asian actors leads me to believe they looked at Japanese or Chinese born actors and then they could set it in Japan(Or China if they found a suitable one?), use that actors starpower for those regions to market the movie there, as well as to US audiences by having english spoken dialogue.

But since they couldn't, they had to rewrite the story to be in Seattle and changed the names of characters.

 

[PSqueak]

Plenty of people have issues with L being Black, however those people are probably fine with L being White too. LOL

Hahaha, yes, i imagine association with such people is why fans avoid bringing it up.

 

[hodayathink]

And don't give me the whole "it's an adaptation" line. Washing away the origins of your source material is still whitewashing. Just like they whitewashed the whole character of the Major in GitS, only applied to the entire film.

No it isn't. Or are "Johnson Family Vacation" and the Christina Milian/Nick Cannon "Can't Buy Me Love" blackwashing? And that's ignoring that Asian countries have adapted Western stories for a long time as well, seeing as adapting stories is about as old as storytelling is.

Whitewashing is an issue. The lack of casting of Asian-Americans in Hollywood movies is also an issue. They aren't always the same thing.