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Loading sucks. Next gen plz fix, k thnx (kinda Tengai rant)

Bebpo

Banned
Since the upcoming consoles are a pretty big topic at the moment, I thought I'd get off my chest what I really want next-gen. Screw million polygon people, and AAx16, the most important thing would be cutting down on load times.

Tengai Makyou III came out today in Japan and while I personally haven't bought it, the people who have are talking about what a mess the game is. Hudson comes up with these great graphics, an original rpg battle system, and a stylish world to explore, yet load times turn what could've been a solid game into an unplayable mess. Everytime you enter a room or leave it you get long loadtimes, accessing menus = load times, fighting battles = load times. Basically every 5-45 secs of playing you're sitting waiting for a 5-10 sec load. This is retarded, and sadly this game is not one of the only casualties of load times. Sony's Popolocrois III for example has 45sec+ load times before every random battle which destroys a game that otherwise would've been a great (albiet short) adventure. Many other examples of horrible game destroying loading exist in the last 2 generations.

Now for the most part GC's disc format/system specs allowed minimal load times to the point where I don't think loading has ever been painful in a GC game. But sadly, the system that actually had the potential to eradicate load times was also the system that was incredibly lacking in 3rd party support and total games.

So basically, I really hope that the next wave of consoles are able to cut down load times to near GC level of loading. Especially which ever system becomes the major rpg system. I think in terms of loading, rpg fans have it the worst as rpgs require tons of loading in and out of random battles which are frequent occurences. I don't care whether xbox 360 or PS3 or Revolution wins next gen, and I don't care which one ends up being the rpg leader, I just don't want a repeat of the PS1 and PS2's often crappy loading effecting the majority of rpg titles. For the people who are actualy keeping track of all the tech stats of the systems, how is the future looking for load times?
 
GC load times = awesome. I really hope other makers take note regarding. I still can't believe I never experience load times in prime 2 (save the occasional door not opening for 2-3 seconds after you shoot it.
 
Sell your PSPs, it's all over.

(I agree about the load time rant, however. They suck, and NEED to go. If nothing else, Ninty's shown us that they CAN be cut down, even with optical media, without a harddrive.)
 
i like this idea and also would like to suggest that we SPEED MEMORY CARD SAVING THE FUCK UP.

god i hate saving games on the ps2 it takes FOREVERRRR
 
45 seconds sounds uncalled for. I think you are exaggerating.

...there's a reason the game never came to the US.

i like this idea and also would like to suggest that we SPEED MEMORY CARD SAVING THE FUCK UP.

god i hate saving games on the ps2 it takes FOREVERRRR

Yea that too. >_<
 
Sometimes, what you're loading is so immense that it just can't be helped. Nintendo has never created a world so technically demanding that long load times were required. But at the same time, I give Nintendo credit for the way disks are read on the Cube. That should be integrated into future consoles.
 
One of the most impressive aspects of REsident Evil 4, above and beyond the graphics is the load times. You got a pretty large play time within an area, and then the next would load in seconds - note, no more door animations!
 
Speevy said:
Nintendo has never created a world so technically demanding that long load times were required.

what about RE4 and Prime (Not nintendo developed, they are pretty fancy) and things like f-zero, surely there is a lotta crap there that has to be loaded. I don't think that's the answer really. I mean, didn't monkeyball have a lot of loading on PS2? I think it's more to do with very clever hardware design.
 
I also agree that there is nothing worse that horribly long load time for taking you out of an experience. The worst IÂ’ve ever experienced was the first Crash game for the next gen consoles (forgot the name) I think it was a 25 second load every time you entered a level it was so painful to just wait that long, and double that at 45 seconds for Popolocrois III is pretty disgusting, I can't imagine anyone actually waiting that out for every random battle.
 
I fully support this.

What would be the best of both worlds is a new cartridge based system with a very quick memory card access.
 
Load times today are nothing compared to days of old...

commodore.jpg


Try several minutes of loadtimes... but oddly, I was more patient for those loadtimes, because those games were so great at the time.
 
Bebpo said:
the most important thing would be cutting down on load times.

My thoughts exactly. I am freakin done watching load screens with some stupid spinning thing on it. Done I tells you.
 
catfish said:
GC load times = awesome.

Indeed. I never really appreciated it until the first time I played Mercenaries (the PS2 game, not the RE4 minigame) for awhile. I enjoy my PS2, but fuck some of those load times.
 
the ratio of ram space to disc access speed is only going to go up next gen, isn't it? although perhaps streaming techniques will be better, i wouldn't count on an end to load times, or even shorter load times, necessarily. i really like a game that doesn't load much. halo 2 and naughty dog's games were impressive in this respect.
 
given how sony has utterly failed to create a system around the concept of speedy load times when it would really benefit from it (PSP) i am not holding out hope that it's a priority in the PS3 design. which is where the vast majority of console RPGs will be, again. so, we're fucked! hoolay.

but if it has an HD built in, maybe they'll let us use the install option that always gets taken out of US releases of RPGs. if they left that in, i'd put the HDD i have sitting in my closet in my PS2.
 
sp0rsk said:
i like this idea and also would like to suggest that we SPEED MEMORY CARD SAVING THE FUCK UP.

god i hate saving games on the ps2 it takes FOREVERRRR

Solution, Sony need to go with Mem stik Duo Pro's next gen. You can get the card size you want and fast transfer speeds too. After I get a 1Gig stick, I'll have a 256 left over that would go perfect with the PS3. Make it happen Sony!
 
Pellham said:
RPG developers should ask Level 5 what they did to eliminate loading time from battles in Dragon Quest VIII. :P

Hell, most big name RPGs have pretty minimal load times nowadays. Last game I rememeber having really nasty load times was Skies of Arcadia for the DC.
 
Hell, most big name RPGs have pretty minimal load times nowadays. Last game I rememeber having really nasty load times was Skies of Arcadia for the DC.

So is there a difference between a "big name RPG" and a "typical RPG"? Most recent PS2 games i've played are Shining Tears and Suikoden 4 and they had loading times out the ass.

Then again i'm not a patient person (I play most of my RPGs on the PC these days) so I'm not a typical Playstation gamer who's used to those 30-45 second load times.
 
Prepare yourself for longer load times next gen.

The increase in RAM over current gen is much larger than the increase in seek times & transfer rates. It is inevitible.
 
Shining Tears and Suikoden 4 are reallllllly typical Juspell, you should know that ;p.

Shadow Hearts Covenant would be along the lines of something that had pretty good load times as well as Star Ocean 3 and Tales of Symphonia.

I never say much tearing on the DQ8 overworld myself, even after flinging the camera around crazy.
 
Godbless my GC. The last four years went by so quickly, as I wasn't waiting for shit to load. Prime, Wind Waker, Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion, you name it- no loading time.
 
I expect longer load times next generation. If the Xbox 360 has just a standard 16x DVD drive, it can only read at 22MB/s. That is probably too slow for streaming unless you cut down on the quality or quantity of textures. I assume most developers will fill the memory before starting a level, which will take nearly 25 seconds if the console has 512MB RAM.
 
Pellham said:
RPG developers should ask Level 5 what they did to eliminate loading time from battles in Dragon Quest VIII. :P

Actually the loading time out of battle is still pretty noticable in DQVIII, but it was definitely manageable like most of the FF games/Atlus games.
 
Arcticfox said:
I expect longer load times next generation. If the Xbox 360 has just a standard 16x DVD drive, it can only read at 22MB/s. That is probably too slow for streaming unless you cut down on the quality or quantity of textures. I assume most developers will fill the memory before starting a level, which will take nearly 25 seconds if the console has 512MB RAM.

The problem with rpgs though is that there are no levels that they can just do a huge data dump into ram with. In an rpg with an overworld if we want no loading in and out of battle, they will have to have the entire overworld, all characters, all enemies that you can possibly run into, and all spell/attack animations loaded into ram while walking around. Then when you go into a town you'll have to load the entire town and all the insides of buildings and character models.

From a design standpoint, rpgs seem really lose/lose when it comes to fast loading :(

But supposedly using the hard drive installation in rpgs makes the load times really short. I've heard popolocrois jumps from 45 secs to 3-5 secs and games like XSep1 and SO3 drop from 5-10 secs to 1-2 secs. FFX going from 4-5 secs to 1-2 secs. So yea like Ferricide said, maybe if the next consoles all have hard drives and the games let you install...then maybe it'll get better.
 
evilromero said:
Godbless my GC. The last four years went by so quickly, as I wasn't waiting for shit to load. Prime, Wind Waker, Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion, you name it- no loading time.

My thoughts exactly! Even though I got a DC/PS2/XBOX as well, the GC & GBA-anti load times evened things out so very nicely.
 
OK well, yeah hopefully the PS3 will have a built-in hard drive/removable hard drive (if it's already confirmed to do so, forgive me, I don't exactly keep up with the news), and it'll be a feature kept in the US version. :P
 
I don't mind load times.

Infact, I don't mind load times to the point where the PSX remake of Chrono Trigger's load times didn't even flinch me.

I guess I'm just more patient. Or maybe I'm just so used to load times now.
 
load times on PSP suck. Save times on PSP rox! Memory stick on PS3 please Sony - even those stupid mini ones are OK.
 
I got DOOM 3 today and noticed load times...

It all comes down to the load to gameplay ratio. Gran Turismo is really bad for this (but GT4 is much better than the older ones).

Games like MGS, Metroid Prime, or Halo...though there are some, I was NEVER annoyed by it.

It's really only the PS2 that suffers from this issue to a great degree. I'm sure next gen that this won't be much of an issue.

If the Xbox 360 has just a standard 16x DVD drive, it can only read at 22MB/s.

Isn't it sporting an HD DVD drive?
 
Yes! Exactly! Load times are far more important to me than fancy schmancy graphics. I hope developers really make obliterating load times a top priority next gen. Great graphics, sure, but not at the expense of load times - they're really a big flaw. Going to the movies and having to WAIT for the projectionist to change reels. You wouldn't stand for it, and we shouldn't have to in games either - it really ruins the illusion/immersion in some cases.

It's actually one thing which pleasantly surprises me with Starfox Adventures (don't laugh, it was cheap) after playing PS2 games for a while - load times are virtually non-existent, which is really impressive.

I'm also hoping more thought has gone in at the hardware stage next gen; Sony, I'm looking at you. Nintendo and Microsoft's machines this time around have both actually proved to be pretty good when it comes to loading, but the PS2 is sadly as much of a dog as PSone was in this department. After all, there's really not much point in having 512MB of RAM if you have a dog slow optical drive to load from.
 
Fight for Freeform said:
Isn't it sporting an HD DVD drive?

According to various rumormongers no, and considering I haven't even seen a HD-DVD drive in the wild yet, I'm inclined to believe them. I imagine it most certainly will be too expensive to do at a reasonable price, especially with all the other specs we've heard floating around.
 
Ugh, I was playing DC over at my uncles couple of days ago. The load times are horrible (that along with the sound of it reading the disc)


Even XB and PS2 annoy me in that aspect. (I get annoyed by RE4 even, probably because I started playing it after MP2).

I don't think I'm going to like next gen at all if load times are going to be longer compared to this gen. Especially with the normal mapping *puke* everyone wants to have in their games nowadays
 
sp0rsk said:
i like this idea and also would like to suggest that we SPEED MEMORY CARD SAVING THE FUCK UP.

god i hate saving games on the ps2 it takes FOREVERRRR

God yes. There has to be a way to make this more seamless a la PC-style quick saves.

Some of the menu maps should be shortened as well. Even though I love God of War because it does so many things right, I wish they would've been just a little bit smarter about the archaic save system.
 
Kinda offtopic but just a tip: Have you tried using Hdloader for that one ? This is not an invitation to piracy but to dump the original game to the HDD and play it from there.


N64.jpg

Like if N64 had no loads...I still remember Quake 2... However nothing comes close to SFZ2 on the SNES.
 
I totally agree with the sentiment, Loading times have always been a bitch but they really became my no.1 concern with modern gaming in Everything or Nothing where the game was literally more load time than play time. Its also my biggest gripe with PC gaming, where it seems load times are just accepted as the norm.

Modded Xbox and HDloader definitely ease the pain on consoles but really its the developers that need to start putting 'eliminate load times' higher up their to-do lists, because plenty of developers have shown that it can be done just given a little thinking and the right kind of optimisation.
 
Fable!! You load the game, then it autosaves (taking up a bit of time), then it loads again! Bebpo really hit the nail on the head with this post - nothing frustrates me more with games than loading times, you think they'd have been nearly eliminated by now... For next gen, I could care about number of polygons pushed, the main things I want are standard 60FPS and virtually no load times. One of the things I enjoyed about Tales of Symphonia was barely any load time and it took a half-second to save.

EDIT: Sucks to hear about Tengai III, I'm really looking forward to the US release... maybe they'll fix it in the US release :(
 
triste said:
Load times today are nothing compared to days of old...

commodore.jpg


Try several minutes of loadtimes... but oddly, I was more patient for those loadtimes, because those games were so great at the time.

Speed load cart ;)

But honestly loading off of tape in the day was the worst, you could start the load then go have lunch and rub one out, then the game was ALMOST loaded, talking 30min loadtimes here.


The PSP media is tiny they just made the drive too slow, the GC has the best loading out here, some ps2 and xbox load times are absurd (ridge racer V)
 
Im hoping games with load times like Jak and God of War will become more common next gen. Death to loadtimes.
 
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