AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I think he works for IGN. SO THATS A STRIKE.
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Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, new teaser trailer
- Thread starter SJRB
- Start date
SirKicksalot
Member
Oh man. The shitstorm that ended Alex Proyas's career in Hollywood was hilarious:
For the record, I think Gods of Egypt is kino of the highest order and was wonderful in 3D at the cinema. It's like a big budget episode of Hercules with super creative visuals that bring ancient paintings to life. How can anyone hate a movie where Geoffrey Rush drags the sun around the flat earth and battles a giant space worm that tries to swallow it?
I remember people on this forum bitching about black characters kneeling to white gods while the exact opposite happens... It really had no chance.
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ManaByte
Member
Those people have formed a new forum where they make white people kneel to them while they wear a fur suit.
sol_bad
Member
Synless
Member
I hope this is great. I just feed it will have shitty episode ending transition tropes like most shows.
Half the reason I don’t watch shows over movies is because shows always do this shock value shit to get you for the next episode and because episodes seem to follow the same god damn formula.
Half the reason I don’t watch shows over movies is because shows always do this shock value shit to get you for the next episode and because episodes seem to follow the same god damn formula.
For the record, The Crow and Dark City are two of my favorite movies. I like Proyas.
Didn't like Gods of Egypt, but bring it up mainly as a talking point in how diversity is great in one instance, but unacceptable in the next.
Kev Kev
Member
BaneIsPain
Member
From Defending Middle-Earth, Patrick Curry:
Thus, as Clyde Kilby recounts, when Tolkien was asked what lay east and south of Middle-earth, he replied: ‘“Rhûn is the Elvish word for east. Asia, China, Japan, and all the things which people in the West regard as far away. And south of Harad is Africa, the hot countries.” Then Mr. Resnick asked, “That makes Middle-earth Europe, doesn’t it?” To which Tolkien replied, “Yes, of course – Northwestern Europe … where my imagination comes from”.’ (In which case, as Tolkien also agreed, Mordor ‘would be roughly in the Balkans.’)
He reacted sharply to reading a description of Middle-earth as ‘Nordic,’ however: ‘Not Nordic, please! A word I personally dislike; it is associated, though of French origin, with racialist theories …’ He also contested Auden’s assertion that for him ‘the North is a sacred direction’: ‘That is not true. The North-west of Europe, where I (and most of my ancestors) have lived, has my affection, as a man’s home should. I love its atmosphere, and know more of its histories and languages than I do of other parts; but it is not “sacred,” nor does it exhaust my affections.
Thus, as Clyde Kilby recounts, when Tolkien was asked what lay east and south of Middle-earth, he replied: ‘“Rhûn is the Elvish word for east. Asia, China, Japan, and all the things which people in the West regard as far away. And south of Harad is Africa, the hot countries.” Then Mr. Resnick asked, “That makes Middle-earth Europe, doesn’t it?” To which Tolkien replied, “Yes, of course – Northwestern Europe … where my imagination comes from”.’ (In which case, as Tolkien also agreed, Mordor ‘would be roughly in the Balkans.’)
He reacted sharply to reading a description of Middle-earth as ‘Nordic,’ however: ‘Not Nordic, please! A word I personally dislike; it is associated, though of French origin, with racialist theories …’ He also contested Auden’s assertion that for him ‘the North is a sacred direction’: ‘That is not true. The North-west of Europe, where I (and most of my ancestors) have lived, has my affection, as a man’s home should. I love its atmosphere, and know more of its histories and languages than I do of other parts; but it is not “sacred,” nor does it exhaust my affections.
sol_bad
Member
I don't care about skin colour in Gods of Egypt.
I don't care about skin colour in Ghost in the Shell.
I don't care about skin colour in LOTR.
What does that mean?
By this reasoning, Hugh Jackman is absolutely the worst casting choice ever made for Wolverine.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
I don’t think Amazon have the rights to adapt the Silmarillion or am I missing some context here, and misreading?
Why Amazon Doesn't Have The Rights To J.R.R. Tolkien's 'The Silmarillion' — CultureSlate
When Amazon first announced that they were going to be doing a series from Tolkien’s Middle Earth/ Lord of the Rings universe, the fanbase exploded with questions about what it might focus on, who it might be about, and when in the timeline, that Tolkien mapped out, it would take place.
www.cultureslate.com
Not sure why the Estate is being so precious with the Silmarillion if that’s indeed the case. First and Second Ages would be a fertile playground for creative license, especially with an Amazon budget.
Also, I would follow Cate Blanchett to the ends of the earth. She is perfect as Galadriel, Heck, LotR movies had the perfect cast, though I had some issues initially with Jackson’s adaptation and direction.
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Dr. Claus
Banned
Elrond is now a beta male, Galadriel is now a battle hardened warrior in full armor (Which makes no sense to make her something she isn’t when she was already one of the most powerful beings in the series and a certifiable badass in her own right), it shits on the lore, the history, and the writing of Tolkien.
Tolkien’s works were written in such a way that it created a very vivid, very well detailed world and fans, surprisingly enough, want to see said world in live action. they don’t want to see some jackass inbred writer’s soapbox version of Middle Earth. They want to see TOLKIEN’S MIDDLE EARTH.
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Bragr
Banned
? you can just use fancy camera tricks to fake that. Faking skin color is a different thing.
In the LOTR universe, if you were a black elf, you would stand out like an 8-legged horse.
LOTR is a merged fantasy version of northen europe and all the myths there, and pretending that a black guy would intertwine seamlessly into those societies is just not gonna work. If you say it's black elves, it also means that all the other races are used to seeing black elves, like some form of globalism and race politics has entered the fucking kingdoms. At some point, it ain't LOTR anymore.
There are so many cool fantasy epics they could make a show out of where diversity wasn't an issue, but LOTR and Tolkien are too grounded in northen european history and myths to allow bending the rules like that.
Bragr
Banned
Galadriel is the worst of the changes on paper, it's not the same character, it's a complete re-write. It's as if Han Solo was a wookie in the new Star Wars trilogy, completely ignoring the other films.
It's a kick in the nuts for anyone that cares about LOTR.
Dr. Claus
Banned
And the thing is, there *were* black races within Middle-Earth. Just as there were Asian ones. There are plenty of stories you can create that would involve them. But sadly that isn’t what they are doing here.
Yep. And yet the same tired folks are appearing in this thread en masse to show their asses and ignorance on the subject.
Javthusiast
Banned
I have more faith in House of the Dragon being good than this.
Bragr
Banned
Yeah, there are ways to have more diverse kingdoms and cities, but they are taking the approach that ALL races and factions need diversity, which makes no sense and shits over the entire story.
Stuart360
Member
Sorry for the noobish question but what was the controversy surrounding 'Gods of Egypt'?. Was it because the Gods were white?, i mean they are gods so no onee knows what they looked like anyway. Plus they were probably aliens anyway, as depicted with Osiris and his blue skin etc.
Jinzo Prime
Member
Once again, this isn't about skin color, it's about casting decisions and accurate adaptation.
It doesn't make since to cast Korean people in Black Panther because the characters are from a fictional kingdom in Africa.
It doesn't make sense to cast Irish people in an adaptation of 1001 Nights / Aladdin because the stories are of Middle Eastern and Mesopotamian origin.
It doesn't make sense to cast African Americans in an adaptation of Beowulf because the characters are Scandinavian.
Its okay for stories to focus on one group of people at a time. As an African American, I would love to see more adaptations of African, Egyptian, Mayan, and Polynesian stories and fantasies because they are cool as fuck. I recently watched Turning Red and it would loose a lot of its identity if the main characters family wasn't Chinese-American.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
They’ll be a lot of people interested.
Jinzo Prime
Member
The Egyptian Gods are depicted in Egyptian hieroglyphs and statues all throughout Egypt, and the movie made no attempt to match its casting to the culture it was adapting from. Egyptian people are a real ethic group and it is reasonable to assume that their humanoid Gods would resemble them. Furthermore, if you call a movie "Gods of Egypt" people should expect to see people that at least look Egyptian, but Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Geoffroy Rush are white as snow and don't remind any depiction of an Egyptian God that I have ever seen.
Stuart360
Member
So its because the gods were white, sigh. Maybe they should of gone down the alien route, it would probably of made an entertaining movie. Although going the alien route would of offended some.
Fuz
Banned
Uhhh... yes?
I feel like my life is poorer for not being exposed to these things. I have to actively hunt them down myself, and I just know I'm missing out on so much.
Any recommendations?
Kssio_Aug
Member
Hugh Jackman indeed is not a good Wolverine, physically. But it seems to me he won people over with his acting! That's why I think
sol_bad
made an excellent point! He is a good example of a character that, initially, wouldn't be a good cast because he didn't really matched Wolverine looks, but he became quite iconic as Wolverine down the road.You only say that because you never got to see Danny Devito do the role he was born to play over passed over by a tall suave ChadHugh Jackman indeed is not a good Wolverine, physically. But it seems to me he won people over with his acting! That's why I think
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I wonder what is falling from the sky.
It was a clever visual device for a trailer, to quickly show that this world is shared by all of these different races. You can see how the younger races are in awe of whatever it may be, while the elders like the Noldor appear to be concerned - as if they realize something falling into Ea like this isn't right.
If nothing else the production values are going to be high.
It was a clever visual device for a trailer, to quickly show that this world is shared by all of these different races. You can see how the younger races are in awe of whatever it may be, while the elders like the Noldor appear to be concerned - as if they realize something falling into Ea like this isn't right.
If nothing else the production values are going to be high.
Jinzo Prime
Member
The Epic Of Mwindo is like Bantu Hercules, Epic of Sundiata like Malian Hamlet (with magic), Amduat is like an Egyptian metal album version of Hell, Anansi is basically the Ashanti version of Loki and has many strange adventures. I know the bare minimum about Mayan and Aztec mythology; but the sun God Huitzilopochtli is literally fueled by blood sacrifice in order to keep the Sun from going out. Aztecan Hell is also pretty metal: featuring mountains of made of obsidian you have to cross (obsidian being so sharp it cuts at the cellular level}, wastelands of endless ice and snow, deadly black rivers you have to cross; all in all nine super fun levels of Hell.
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JimmyRustler
Member
Can’t speak for everyone but my negative outlook is due to Wheel of Time and the first trailer looked like Amazon will be doing the same thing to LoTR.
Halo is Back
Member
Looks pretty unexciting tbh. I'll wait until it comes out but money does not equal quality storytelling and great execution. The art style reminds me a lot of the recent Hobbit movies and that is not a good sign.
GymWolf
Member
I know right, the fit should be about her "acting" skills, not her race.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
The books are waaay better so far. I just started reading through book 2
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strange headache
Banned
I like how skin color doesn't matter, but as soon as it's a black lead or predominantly black cast it's suddenly the most important thing since sliced bread.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Probably Amazon’s share price over the past few months. Zing.
Seriously though, could be Sauron making an entrance and pretending to be an emissary (as Annatar) from Valinor and sent to share with them knowledge such as ringcraft?
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Thank you, will look up everything I'm unfamiliar with (which is most outside of the mayan and aztec stuff).
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I came to the realization of something recently... Sorta.
Tolkien's LOTR trilogy is ALSO an allegory about racism and race relations with ACTUAL different races (the fellowship). Our skin colors don't actually equate to us being races... Dwarves and Elves and men and hobbits are all different races, even though they look very much alike. The Elves are near perfect beings. The Hobbits are mini folk with big hairy feet. Dwarves are also mini with most of them having long beards.
The fellowship, at least in the movies, starts off with Gimli showing his obvious bigotry towards Elves... By end of the first movie, Gimli and Legolas are brothers. When Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas are surrounded by the Rohirrim, Eomer threatens Gimli and Legolas, the G that he is, is like "your head would fall before you even TRY! YOU BETTER STEP FROM MY BROTHER!" I was so proud in that moment!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all darker hued humans in the books sided with Mordor?
Tolkien's LOTR trilogy is ALSO an allegory about racism and race relations with ACTUAL different races (the fellowship). Our skin colors don't actually equate to us being races... Dwarves and Elves and men and hobbits are all different races, even though they look very much alike. The Elves are near perfect beings. The Hobbits are mini folk with big hairy feet. Dwarves are also mini with most of them having long beards.
The fellowship, at least in the movies, starts off with Gimli showing his obvious bigotry towards Elves... By end of the first movie, Gimli and Legolas are brothers. When Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas are surrounded by the Rohirrim, Eomer threatens Gimli and Legolas, the G that he is, is like "your head would fall before you even TRY! YOU BETTER STEP FROM MY BROTHER!" I was so proud in that moment!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all darker hued humans in the books sided with Mordor?
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Right I personally don't care, but it is naïve to think they don't do these things to avoid controversy.
Tolkien's genius is using core storytelling principles such that you COULD interpret his writing in such a way.
But I doubt he had much of an ethnic specific focus. Our Tolkein scholar isn't around anymore I don't think, but there is enough letters out there that I'm sure this has a definitive answer.
Anyway, I think there is enough variety between European cultures and myth that you don't really have to look outside that to see the elves, dwarves, and hobbits as integral to that. Tolkein wanted LOTR to be a mythic history of northern Europe so of course he acknowledges that other people's and places exist. That the sway of evil is stronger there is more of a storytelling device to put pressure on the fellowship than anything else, there will be no salvation from an outside kingdom, it's do or die.
But I'd love to read stores set in other places that keep to the Lore established by tolkein. I wish he, or Christopher perhaps, had been more open to other authors writing within the world while he could put some limits. The current estate holders dont seem as interested.
I think all of this stuff hits public domain in another couple of decades anyway so I'm sure we will see TONS of middle-earth stuff then.
killatopak
Member
Not really. The Dunlending joined Mordor to wipe out Rohan.
Edit: Oops maybe I misread that. As far as I know, I think if darker hued people means the Easterlings then probably?
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PaddyOCanager
Member
The Haradrim? From my understanding they've been at war with Gondor for centuries but have always been sort of caught between the forces of good and evil.
I feel like the show is missing a big opportunity to explore this culture and other cultures outside of Middle Earth, but that would require Amazon to be creative......maybe we'll get that in future seasons?
Elysion
Banned
I don’t understand why these kinds of shows or movies always have to fulfill their diversity quotas in the most retarded way possible. There are lots of ways they could write in characters with different racial or ethnic backgrounds if they wanted to: they could be a bunch of foreign travelers, or members of a foreign invading army, or escaped slaves or whatever. But instead they just have all these people living in medieval european(ish) settings where they look totally out of place.
It was the same with the Witcher show; I just couldn’t take it seriously when in the first village Gerald visited in the first episode, half the people living there were black lol. And that’s not just nitpicking; a medieval world in a fantasy show having the same demographics as New York City immediately destroys all sense of place, and makes the whole thing feel fake. Having people from all over the world all living in the same area, during a time when intercontinental travel would take months (if it happens at all), also makes the world feel weirdly small.
And if they really want to have black dwarves or whatever, then they should do it properly: make all the dwarves black, or none at all. All the dwarves being black wouldn’t really bother me, since the dwarves are meant to be a different race anyway, so why not give them a different skin color too? But I can’t stand the idea of having ‘black’ and ‘white’ dwarves, or ‘black’ and ‘white’ elves, that makes no sense at all.
It was the same with the Witcher show; I just couldn’t take it seriously when in the first village Gerald visited in the first episode, half the people living there were black lol. And that’s not just nitpicking; a medieval world in a fantasy show having the same demographics as New York City immediately destroys all sense of place, and makes the whole thing feel fake. Having people from all over the world all living in the same area, during a time when intercontinental travel would take months (if it happens at all), also makes the world feel weirdly small.
And if they really want to have black dwarves or whatever, then they should do it properly: make all the dwarves black, or none at all. All the dwarves being black wouldn’t really bother me, since the dwarves are meant to be a different race anyway, so why not give them a different skin color too? But I can’t stand the idea of having ‘black’ and ‘white’ dwarves, or ‘black’ and ‘white’ elves, that makes no sense at all.
BossLackey
Gold Member
Why does every fantasy show have to have modern makeup? Everyone looks like they stepped off the train 10 minutes before putting a wig on.
FWIW the Witcher world is a weird conflagration of other worlds. Humans apparently came from Earth(?) so if this were a random global event snatching folks from earth and dropping them on the previously elf inhabited planet then it's possible there would be geographically displaced ethnicities.
If course this is not The Witcher as written and hard to imagine that small pockets of ethnic minorities could maintain their visual distinctiveness if left amidst a very different majority population (barring deliberate segregation, of course) but there you have it.
There are few successful IPs in English that were NOT created by white people featuring almost all white people, it's just the era they were written in and the settings they were placed in. A big exception would be something like Erikson's Malazan epic, which has lots of black characters (as well as monochromatic 'elven' races) but there is little to no racial focus so it's easily to forget.
But if the series is set in "fantasy medieval Europe" then guess what, it's gonna be full o'white folks. Stuff like Hyperborea and Conan had a cosmopolitan mix but it was pretty stereotypical and would be difficult to portray accurately today I think.
Its different today, I think many writers are thinking about a movie or TV show and are either being less descriptive about race or being sure to factor in a more human diverse setting. This is how it should be, considered (or not) from the get go.
If course this is not The Witcher as written and hard to imagine that small pockets of ethnic minorities could maintain their visual distinctiveness if left amidst a very different majority population (barring deliberate segregation, of course) but there you have it.
There are few successful IPs in English that were NOT created by white people featuring almost all white people, it's just the era they were written in and the settings they were placed in. A big exception would be something like Erikson's Malazan epic, which has lots of black characters (as well as monochromatic 'elven' races) but there is little to no racial focus so it's easily to forget.
But if the series is set in "fantasy medieval Europe" then guess what, it's gonna be full o'white folks. Stuff like Hyperborea and Conan had a cosmopolitan mix but it was pretty stereotypical and would be difficult to portray accurately today I think.
Its different today, I think many writers are thinking about a movie or TV show and are either being less descriptive about race or being sure to factor in a more human diverse setting. This is how it should be, considered (or not) from the get go.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I'm really not looking forward to that Cleopatra movie and it's not due to Gal Gadot being casted as Cleopatra, it's due to how annoying her fangirls can be
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
The beauty of it is that any individual can interpret it any way they choose. So if that's how you see it, then that's how you see it.
From Tolkien's writings / letters, he wanted to create a kind of English mythology that wasn't solely defined by Celtic and early Anglo influences. He looked to other sources for inspiration, as well as the real world. That's why his elves resembled the Light Elves of Nordic mythology, his dwarves resembled their dwarves, hobbits resembled the people in an average countryside English village of his time and prior, and the Easterlings were largely darker in skin (but not all, some were pale-skinned barbarians).
On the topic of brotherhood, he drew heavily upon his own experience in the Great War. So yea, you're definitely onto something there - people coming together from different nations/races to fight a common foe, and in the process became brothers.
Lol all the usual suspects ITT being haters just for the fuck of it
Absolutely no one in this thread: .....
The usual suspects: black people
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Btw... I am about to eat so can't scroll up to find them, but some posters were saying that Faramir was tempted or something by the One Ring... It was Boromir, not Faramir. In the movies (don't know about the books), Faramir wasn't tempted by it. At least not like most who get tempted by the Ring.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I'm really not looking forward to that Cleopatra movie and it's not due to Gal Gadot being casted as Cleopatra, it's due to how annoying her fangirls can be
I think Gal Gadot is a good piece of casting as she can pass as Greek. However, she is also far too beautiful to play Cleopatra VII. Cleopatra wasn't a looker and had a very hooked nose. Probably a result of generations of Ptolemaic incest (Ptolemy's married their siblings to keep their line "pure", which I bet won't be mentioned in this film)
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Still not interested, especially since Patty Jenkins is directing
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Just IMDb the movie, looks like someone else is directing. My mistake
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